Target Audience

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Target Audience

Pro tip: They always mean, "me."

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Heh, very true.

(Though...seems odd that this is international news.)

I hate that censorship has become a thing where we can excuse just solely on "private company" excuse. They're basically saying that one customer -the 'soccer mom'- is more important than another customer. I guess it's true in a business sense that their most valuable customer is the soccer mom over the avid video gamer, but that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

Also, nobody should listen to Erin. She's a self-absorbed schizophrenic who talks to imaginary video game characters she sees (possibly a symptom of that car accident, but I think it is something that has within her for longer than that).

I don't even like GTAs but this is problematic in one sense.

Imagine these guys removing a book, CD or movie from their shelves for some political or bigoted reason. The world would come down in flames.

But a game? Pffft. Who the hell cares?

I may disagree with what Target is saying, but I will fight to the death for their right to agree with me.

Its amazing how tolerant people become of something that,even if you think isn't censorship, is definitely a foot on the ladder leading towards censorship, when it undermines a point they were trying to make.

Tbh i think it is more censorship than not stocking it, because they DID stock it and removed it because of the moral panic. If it was just "oh we don't want to sell it any more cause its not selling" its different.

Kinda harms the whole "the type of games your going to play will not change" argument when companies cave into moral crusaders like this :p

Also going to point out the "i want them to listen to me" stuff form the last panel, works both ways when the crusaders moan that a store is selling the thing in the first place, like with a recent card game that was pulled from a store. The "they should listen to me" works for all consumers not just one side.

Gonna stop reading this I think, kinda fed up and reading strawmen

listen to you? the consumer?
pff, the thought alone...

Well, when you think about it, not every store carries every product in existence. It's like the argument that boycotting is wrong - it's wrong to not buy a thing? So everybody should be required to buy things they don't want? Same thing applies with a store selling them.

I am amazed at how many people either don't know what censorship is or is using the word in the wrong fashion, despite better knowledge, to score cheap rhetorical points about moral panic and oppression of gamers.

why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

Deathfish15:
I hate that censorship has become a thing where we can excuse just solely on "private company" excuse. They're basically saying that one customer -the 'soccer mom'- is more important than another customer. I guess it's true in a business sense that their most valuable customer is the soccer mom over the avid video gamer, but that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

I think Jim actually did a great episode on this. They're just pulling a (apparently) huge Public Rep stunt without really at the cost of anything to them. Anyone that would buy GTA has already bought it, and anyone that hates it will think target is the saint about getting rid such an evil, infamous game. If they were actually censoring, I'd imagine a lot more games would. They're currently stocking...
Far Cry 4
Call of duty
Dishonored
Telltale's The Walking Dead
Watchdogs

... the list goes on and on.I'd imagine atleast SOME of those games are more mature than Grand Theft Auto, dealing with more serious themes and gore. But they're still on there.

But the >>*REAL*<< shame is the fact that there isn't rainbow man on this list.

The market did just decided; Target decided that it made more business sense not to sell GTA V. That is the free market at work. Now if you disagree with that decision, which I do, then do not shop at Target, refuse to receive anything from Target and ask other to do the same.

NuclearKangaroo:
why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

The problem is the reasons they stated...
and the fact that I strongly believe they would NOT have done that to a book or a movie.

Just old people shitting on things they dont understand.
Meh, people that dont treat games as an art form... are a dying breed. And the LOSING side.

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:
why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

not really, a group of people who may or may have not bought the game, signed a patetition to get it pulled from the store on the false grounds that it was misogynistic

it the most successful entertainment product every created, its clear the market wants the game

unless target provides some figures showing terrible sales and use that as an argument for pulling the game, it makes no sense

...Who the fuck buys their games from Target?

So true. I couldn't had said it better.

Deathfish15:
that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

What is morally wrong about it?

NuclearKangaroo:

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:
why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

not really, a group of people who may or may have not bought the game, signed a patetition to get it pulled from the store on the false grounds that it was misogynistic

it the most successful entertainment product every created, its clear the market wants the game

unless target provides some figures showing terrible sales and use that as an argument for pulling the game, it makes no sense

Ok let's be perfectly honest here. Did the petition lie about GTA? Yes. But let's not pretend for a second that GTA doesn't have an unhealthy portrayal of women. Not for a damn second. GTA V took a few baby steps and actually had a few cool female characters, but overall it still has a long way to go

It's clear that the GAMING market wants the game. Target is a store that apparently has a very family focused angle. In other words, they are not appealing to the gaming market.

Target is more concerned about parents buying toys for their little kids than gamers in their teens to 20s buying video games (As emphasized by that ad where they advertised GTA V in the sales for toys). That's where the bigger market is.

The market has spoken. The family market.

Double post, my bad. The Escapist hiccuped on me.

I have no trouble when someone decides what's appropriate for him/her but who the fuck are you to decide what's appropriate for me ? And while we are on this, can we find every copy of the film 'Irreversible' and ban it as well ?

THIS. This is your best comic ever. I hear people say "Everyone who thinks differently from me is a nazi!", completely ignoring that hating on people different from you is being a nazi in a nutshell.

Deathfish15:
I hate that censorship has become a thing where we can excuse just solely on "private company" excuse. They're basically saying that one customer -the 'soccer mom'- is more important than another customer. I guess it's true in a business sense that their most valuable customer is the soccer mom over the avid video gamer, but that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

I don't understand how this is morally wrong. Could you please explain? I don't follow your logic.

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:

erttheking:

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

not really, a group of people who may or may have not bought the game, signed a patetition to get it pulled from the store on the false grounds that it was misogynistic

it the most successful entertainment product every created, its clear the market wants the game

unless target provides some figures showing terrible sales and use that as an argument for pulling the game, it makes no sense

Ok let's be perfectly honest here. Did the petition lie about GTA? Yes. But let's not pretend for a second that GTA doesn't have an unhealthy portrayal of women. Not for a damn second. GTA V took a few baby steps and actually had a few cool female characters, but overall it still has a long way to go

It's clear that the GAMING market wants the game. Target is a store that apparently has a very family focused angle. In other words, they are not appealing to the gaming market.

Target is more concerned about parents buying toys for their little kids than gamers in their teens to 20s buying video games. That's where the bigger market is.

The market has spoken. The family market.

i wouldnt know, the defintion of what is a proper portrayal of women varies from person to person honestly, just look at bayonetta

the fact that the game was pulled for such an arbitrary reason pisses me off, the fact that reason is a lie pisses me off even more

does target sell other M rated games? because if thats the case i dont think the fact they are more family oriented holds much water

if they had said "we are swifting our focus to more family oriented, products, we will be discontinuing the sale of M rated video games and 18+ movies"

i wouldnt be happy about it, but i could understand that decision, is a business oriented decision

Eric the Orange:

Deathfish15:
that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

What is morally wrong about it?

The fact is that it's discriminatory. Game of Thrones has actual scenes of rape(and a hell of a lot of talking about it) it still gets sold. 300 has a rape scene, it still gets sold. 50 Shades of Grey is chock full of rapeyness, it still gets sold. GTA V? No rape AT ALL. If it did, it couldn't be sold in Australia. And It is illegal to sell to minors, the boys the petition claims will be influenced by the game.

All of the points that the original petition brought up are false, hyperbole, or an issue that parents should take care of. It was propaganda from the get go. GTA V does not encourage violence against women, prostitutes or not, any more so than it encourages violence against anyone else. It has one rule, if you see a person, you can kill them. If you only run over women, that's your problem.

It's one thing to say I won't buy this. It's quite another to say no one should buy this.

Eric the Orange:

Deathfish15:
that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

What is morally wrong about it?

Booklover13:

I don't understand how this is morally wrong. Could you please explain? I don't follow your logic.

They didn't do this for the sake of anything other than their business image for their top-dollar customer. They threw bot the product and the customers who shop said product under the bus so that they could enjoy a more positive spin for more business by the soccer mom. Their censorship is for the sake of manipulation rather than true independent ideals and morality.

As someone else said, they have plenty of other games that they still stock Far Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, The Evil Within, Kane & Lynch, Watchdogs, Dead Space, oh,....and the so-called "GTA knock-off" Saints Row 3 & 4. How is it that they have that game, which basically allows most everything that GTA allows, still and there's been no uproar on it? It's hypocritical on a large scale.

NuclearKangaroo:
Snip

I think the fact that the majority of the female characters are passive is at least worthy of a double take.

I'm pretty sure people would've gotten just as pissed off if the petition had been 100% factual. Like Jim Sterling said, I'm pretty sure this is people just attacking GTA V because it's popular and it's naughtiness can be spoon fed to people looking for something to be pissed off about without having to do any research.

See above. Don't get me wrong I think it's stupid, but Target has every right to make this decision. I mean how is forcing someone to sell something they don't want to any different from forcing them to not sell something they do want to?

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:

erttheking:

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

not really, a group of people who may or may have not bought the game, signed a patetition to get it pulled from the store on the false grounds that it was misogynistic

it the most successful entertainment product every created, its clear the market wants the game

unless target provides some figures showing terrible sales and use that as an argument for pulling the game, it makes no sense

Ok let's be perfectly honest here. Did the petition lie about GTA? Yes. But let's not pretend for a second that GTA doesn't have an unhealthy portrayal of women. Not for a damn second. GTA V took a few baby steps and actually had a few cool female characters, but overall it still has a long way to go

the fact that they had to lie about how badly sexist the game is right away tells me that it really isn't bad enough to deserve any really complaints.

also, exactly how is it sexist? because I am actually failing to see what could be so offensive about GTA that's different from any crime films or TV shows that are also meant for an adult audience.

erttheking:
It's clear that the GAMING market wants the game. Target is a store that apparently has a very family focused angle. In other words, they are not appealing to the gaming market.

Target is more concerned about parents buying toys for their little kids than gamers in their teens to 20s buying video games. That's where the bigger market is.

The market has spoken. The family market.

the family market is also the lying market I need to remind you. but hey, why don't we take your logic a bit further shall we? what if the "family market" didn't want an R-rated film sold because it had a transsexual character who was portrayed in a positive light, and they lied about the stuff that happens to the character, and how the character acts. should target still not sell the film, which they had already been selling for some time, even though their target demographic (no that wasn't meant to be a pun) doesn't like it?

WouldYouKindly:

Eric the Orange:

Deathfish15:
that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

What is morally wrong about it?

The fact is that it's discriminatory. Game of Thrones has actual scenes of rape(and a hell of a lot of talking about it) it still gets sold. 300 has a rape scene, it still gets sold. 50 Shades of Grey is chock full of rapeyness, it still gets sold. GTA V? No rape AT ALL. If it did, it couldn't be sold in Australia. And It is illegal to sell to minors, the boys the petition claims will be influenced by the game.

All of the points that the original petition brought up are false, hyperbole, or an issue that parents should take care of. It was propaganda from the get go. GTA V does not encourage violence against women, prostitutes or not, any more so than it encourages violence against anyone else. It has one rule, if you see a person, you can kill them. If you only run over women, that's your problem.

It's one thing to say I won't buy this. It's quite another to say no one should buy this.

That's still not a moral issue. Double standard, sure. Blatant attempt to placate core customer base, sure. Probably not as good a PR move as they thought, sure. But not morally wrong.

Imagine I run a grocery store. I can choose what to buy and stock on my shelves. It makes sense business wise to stock what people who go to my store buy. If I get complaints about something I stock I may wish to remove it. Add to that, that the item I'm stocking hasn't been selling very well recently and it seems like an easy call to make those people happy for relatively little cost.

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:
why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

When this happens, my next question is: were the people who complained really Target clients? I supposed this time it falls in a gray area, because Target sells a lot of stuff, not only games.

However there is something else. There is a trap in the petition site. People can't make commentaries in the petition site unless they sign it. Well, I read the commentaries, and a lot were against the petition (which means they all had to sign it) *facepalm*

Booklover13:

Deathfish15:
I hate that censorship has become a thing where we can excuse just solely on "private company" excuse. They're basically saying that one customer -the 'soccer mom'- is more important than another customer. I guess it's true in a business sense that their most valuable customer is the soccer mom over the avid video gamer, but that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

I don't understand how this is morally wrong. Could you please explain? I don't follow your logic.

let me try to explain, imagine a bunch of vegitarians got together, made up a petition to have a certain brand of meat removed from a store and the petition was filled with lies about that brand, and then they spread the lying petition around to get a bunch of people to sign it and the store actually lisened to them.

so basically, a store has listened to one audience to have a product removed, even though the reasons for having it removed are lies and the people who started the petition aren't even the market for that specific product, and most of the signatures were either the signers also weren't part of that products target market or only signed because of the lies on the petition or for both reasons.

that should answer why this is wrong.

Deathfish15:

Eric the Orange:

Deathfish15:
that doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

What is morally wrong about it?

Booklover13:

I don't understand how this is morally wrong. Could you please explain? I don't follow your logic.

They didn't do this for the sake of anything other than their business image for their top-dollar customer. They threw bot the product and the customers who shop said product under the bus so that they could enjoy a more positive spin for more business by the soccer mom. Their censorship is for the sake of manipulation rather than true independent ideals and morality.

As someone else said, they have plenty of other games that they still stock Far Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, The Evil Within, Kane & Lynch, Watchdogs, Dead Space, oh,....and the so-called "GTA knock-off" Saints Row 3 & 4. How is it that they have that game, which basically allows most everything that GTA allows, still and there's been no uproar on it? It's hypocritical on a large scale.

Favoring one clientele over another isn't a moral issue. Double standards aren't necessarily moral issues either.

spartenX:
Snip

I played the game and I'm complaining about it. Just because some numb nuts couldn't do it properly doesn't mean it's impossible for there to be anything wrong with a game.

Because I struggle to think of any female characters that have any meaningful impacts on the plot. Despite there being quite a few female characters around. Or are allowed to do anything important. The closest I can think of is the hacker that helps out on the heists. And when GTA's most progressive woman is a goddamn hacker, I kind of have to role my eyes.

Be careful with that line of logic. By that line of logic than the gamer market is woefully misinformed considering that they wrote up a petition demanding that Target stop selling the Bible on the grounds that it is also sexist. And they didn't let little facts get in the way, facts like Target Doesn't sell the Bible! So I would put away that little snip at the family market if I were you, unless you're really prepared to go down that rode.

I said they had a reason, I didn't say I liked their reason. Personally I think what they're doing is stupid, but it's their choice to do it. And if that happened I'd do what I would do if I was an Australian gamer who wanted GTA V. Send a message to them saying "Aw, that's cute, you think a shop at your store," and then go off to buy it somewhere else. I'm not the type of person who is going to lose my shit because every store doesn't cater to my every need.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Stores decide not to carry stuff ALL THE DAMN TIME! I worked at a walmart and was told to take all the GTA VC copies off the shelf. They were no longer carrying that title, because of complaints. I never saw a huge blow out over it, only some disappointed guys who went to the Future Shop next door and got it.

This stuff happens and private companies have been doing it for years, you're too damn late to change this stuff now. And you're freaking out over the wrong part. Target will do what it has to to seem good, the problem is that a Change.org petition lied (supposedly, I never actually saw what the thing said) and was international so non locals could add their signature to something that would effect another country.

This is where my problem is. Change should be brought to task if their petitions are being filled with lies and fear mongering. Target doesn't care what's in a game, but if people bitch, they'll dump it faster then a mud pie.

CaitSeith:

erttheking:

NuclearKangaroo:
why dont we let the market decide if the game is bad or not?

The market DID decide. The people who shopped at the store said that they didn't want it.

I mean Jesus, I disagree with Target on this matter, but it's kind of their right to not sell a product they don't want to.

When this happens, my next question is: were the people who complained really Target clients? I supposed this time it falls in a gray area, because Target sells a lot of stuff, not only games.

However there is something else. There is a trap in the petition site. People can't make commentaries in the petition site unless they sign it. Well, I read the commentaries, and a lot were against the petition (which means they all had to sign it) *facepalm*

This is a pretty legitimate complaint. Can't say. Then again one of the possible reasons for the outrage was GTA V being included in a flyer for Target that put it alongside kids toys, so I'd have to say "Maybe".

Yeah, that was pretty fucking stupid of them.

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