The Honorable and Dishonorable Game Mentions For 2014

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The Honorable and Dishonorable Game Mentions For 2014

Yahtzee doesn't like to explain himself when it comes to his top and bottom five choices ... but he does it any way this week with an honorable mention, and a few dishonorable ones.

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Hmm, I figured he would mention Bayonetta 2 in here, because he seemed to enjoy that a bit.

I kinda disagree with his Smash assessment though, it is a fighting game, but it doesn't really play like any other fighting game out there. All the moves are pretty basic to execute, and there's no stupid input combos that you need to memorize. I generally do not enjoy fighting games either, but Smash is one I always have fun with.

Also if anybody gets beaten by a button masher in any fighting game, they are not nearly as good as they think they are.

To be fair...i have never got into fighters either. For many similar reasons. All i know is that smash bros is the only brawler i do seem to like, not particularly for any fondness of the characters but because its different and it has this 'fun' that people speak of. Also the rather insane story mode is a nice distraction in varying degrees.
Lastly the important 'easy to pick up-difficult to master' aspect is brilliantly tuned too. In my opinion at least...

Actually, a funny thing about Smash is that it doesn't rely on button combos. Everything is limited to 2 inputs: a button and a direction. These pairs determine which direction your attack will go, how strong it will be, and how far it will reach. I do agree that the usual button-combo fighting gameplay is foolish, especially when it seems to just not work in Injustice (the DC-only one). The wound is salted by how often the campaign requires use of these moves. Injustice also has slower moves in general than Smash.

"I generally enjoy playing Mario platformers..." Well, the ZP of Super Mario 3D World begs to differ. Granted, the classic gameplay of 3D World is far less complex than Sunshine or even Galaxies. But for many of us, the act of jumping is a childish gesture, while the act of hitting a block is not only like eating a potato chip/crisp but also gives us an instantaneous spark of nostalgia satisfaction.

I get you Yahtzee. I have no problem with you tearing any game a new one. However, you keep saying you can win/lose fighting games by randomly smashing buttons, and it's just such a load of shit. It holds as much merit as saying I can beat any FPS by randomly shooting anywhere (and funnily enough, I sometimes do).

For the sake of it, because I don't expect you'll read any of this, I would have agreed it was just for nostalgia hype if I had only played SSB Brawl. However, it's Melee (the one before) that makes me have to challenge you. The game play/mechanics in Melee are extraordinary, being so fluent and satisfying, it had me stuck into it for 8 years straight. I prefer the game play in Melee than any of the characters respective games they had derived from.

It's a shame they don't have a story (or a good one), but honestly, it isn't the main reason I would buy such a game. Though I hope they would have enough challenges to keep me busy for awhile. In fact, I've been begging for a single player game with Smash Brothers Melee mechanics, because I reckon you could do so much with it.

I don't know if that makes me look like a silly fanboy in your eyes, but I think you're underestimating the potential. Look into Melee, I reckon everyone should see the best of a series before marking the whole lot complete dribble.

Everyone's free to not be interested in whatever, but saying that SSB's only reason of existence is brand recognition doesn't do it justice, really. Yes, pitting all those Nintendo characters against one another was what turned heads in the beginning, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to those games.

I wouldn't go as far as Espen Aarseth who once claimed that players don't care in the slightest what their avatars look like during play, but if the games had nothing besides their characters' looks, then people wouldn't look forward to a new SSB more than they do to the games from which the fighters originate by now.

Disclaimer: I do not own one Super Smash Bros. game.

Xman490:
Actually, a funny thing about Smash is that it doesn't rely on button combos. Everything is limited to 2 inputs: a button and a direction. These pairs determine which direction your attack will go, how strong it will be, and how far it will reach. I do agree that the usual button-combo fighting gameplay is foolish, especially when it seems to just not work in Injustice (the DC-only one). The wound is salted by how often the campaign requires use of these moves. Injustice also has slower moves in general than Smash.

"I generally enjoy playing Mario platformers..." Well, the ZP of Super Mario 3D World begs to differ. Granted, the classic gameplay of 3D World is far less complex than Sunshine or even Galaxies. But for many of us, the act of jumping is a childish gesture, while the act of hitting a block is not only like eating a potato chip/crisp but also gives us an instantaneous spark of nostalgia satisfaction.

I think I remember Yahtzee bringing up that he's not been enjoying them as much since Mario Galaxy reached the peak of what the franchise could offer (and had totally written itself into a corner).

OT: I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a mention of Bayonetta 2 as well. And how noble to stop that free money generator called Zero Punctuation - Super Smash Bros for Wii U. Only called that because Nintendo think their audience is stupid.

I'll stop liking Valve the moment they, too, put out stuff I dislike. Valve, of course, continue to dodge that particular bullet by not putting out any games at all, what a bunch of cunning sods.

And by dodging that bullet, they've jumped right onto the grenade of "Starts a compelling story, stops telling it, promises to tell it in smaller pieces, then stops doing that too." I've stopped referring to Valve as a game developer; they're a distributor until they actually start making games again (or at least I did; DotA 2 bought them a year's grace).

I think the reason so many people think you have a bias against Nintendo is that you do have a bias against long-running series, and there's a lot of overlap with that and Nintendo.

While I'm not sure I agree with his assessment of Fighting Games or his understanding of the reason Nintendo cranks up the Fan Service and pumps out more Smash, as an avid fanboy of Nintendo and someone who enjoys Multiplayer games and Fighting Games...

I actually 100% agree that he shouldn't at all review Super Smash Bros WiiU/3DS. A naive me liked the idea of him reviewing each New Mario Platformer on the condition that each one does something new, and the latest ones have been doing so, even if in a formulaic way. The addition of multiplayer, the increased dimensions, the new power ups and characters not normally used in the platformer, the increased difficulty and environments; to an outsider Nintendo is doing nothing but changing the title and box-art and reshipping the same game, but to anyone who tries, each game is actually radically different.

However, beyond the upgrade of the graphics, the addition of some more new characters and stages, and a few new gimics here and there (and while this may sound similar to the above, it's by a completely different scale), the Newest Smash is basically the same tried and true formula. They release a new one for each console cycle because of the upgrades in tech, because the people involved enjoyed toying with it, and because the fanbase of both Fighting Gamers and Nintendo Gamers both eat it like catnip. But while I could ask Yahtzee to try the Mario Platformers because upon trying those genuinely are different games, his review of Smash Bros WiiU would be pretty much just like his review of Brawl (even if I HEAVILY disagree with said review).

His point on the lack of story is 100% true, and I'm not going to judge him on that. If he doesn't like multiplayer, I feel kinda bad for him, if only because I absolutely love it, but I'm not going to judge him on that, either. I think his creed on Fighting Games couldn't be any more wrong, but I'm not going to lose sleep on it. And I'm willing to buy "Nintendo being on the box" isn't an auto-win; quite frankly it shouldn't be.

So what possible reason could he have to even play the game, let alone review it? I'm sorry, but Pac-Man and Mega Man aren't enough on their own to sell it when the other 99% of the game is just something he won't enjoy before even turning on the system. Quite frankly, I'm more curious at who is still bothering him about it. Any chance we could get another Mailroom Throwdown?

TheomanZero:
I think the reason so many people think you have a bias against Nintendo is that you do have a bias against long-running series, and there's a lot of overlap with that and Nintendo.

A lot of us grew up with it and moved past it at some point. I grew up on Mario and Kirby and DK and had a blast with them, but 20 years later I'd rather play something new than more of the same. They push so many same-y titles half their stuff feels like shovelware anyway.

? Uh...WHO kept bringing up SSB? I don't remember anyone really bugging him about reviewing it because we all knew there was no point considering his history with Nintendo. Had he never touched the thing, I don't think anyone would have cared. In fact, I don't think anyone made mention of it until Yahtzee himself did last week which of COURSE caused people to react. Seriously, who was this mysterious consortium of people who kept bugging Yahtzee with it? Can someone point me to them? Because otherwise I'm wondering if he found a comments thread in another universe.

Aiddon:
Uh...WHO kept bringing up SSB?

I really doubt he pays any attention to this, unless he's stated otherwise somewhere, but you never know. People do e-mail him sometimes though, and he does have Fully Ramblomatic, sort of.

Yahtzee, the reason people call you "Biased" when it come to Nintendo, is because whenever you make digs at Nintendo, you insult EVERYONE, not just the fanbois......

I'd also like to point out your assessment of fighting games doesn't apply to Smash Bros.....

Soapbox on Smash Bros/Nintendo aside, I'm surprised you didn't mention Bayonetta 2 as an honorable mention......

Hmm...I guess I'll just echo what a few others have said so far in defense of Super Smash Bros, specifically that last point.
I think Yahtzee doesn't give Smash enough credit as a franchise on its own. I don't play Smash because the characters in them remind me of other games. I play Smash because I love the way Smash plays.

I mean, when I first played Melee, I didn't know who the hell Marth or Roy was, nor did I know who the Ice Climbers were...or Ness...or Captain Falcon...or...you get the picture and I doubt I'll play any of their games in the near future. At the same time I knew who Mario and Kirby were of course but my first game featuring each of them were Super Mario Sunshine and Kirby Canvas Curse both games that were considered not representative of their core titles.

I can see were he made the conclusion were people only play Smash for nostalgia's sake but I don't think that's the reason.

With all that said, I respect his reason not to properly review it. His point about the lack of narrative and not liking co-op and extremely good reasons by themselves.

Gladion:
Everyone's free to not be interested in whatever, but saying that SSB's only reason of existence is brand recognition doesn't do it justice, really. Yes, pitting all those Nintendo characters against one another was what turned heads in the beginning, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to those games.

I dunno man. If Samus, Wario and Link weren't in Smash then I wouldn't have any interest in it.

Well, he has full rights to not like the game, the same way he has full rights to call, say, Limbo a good game, rather than the half-good game it is.

To be honest though, I would enjoy him making a review of Smash U, just to piss off the fans again.

I own a WiiU, and I always wait for Yahtzee to review a next Ninty game out of interest.
But I do stay away from the discussions because people get so easily butthurt about their favorite things -.- *sigh*
I like my smash, and I guess this is the one I'll actually try to get good at (not going too well...).

I hate the fact that critics and commentators need to mention that their favourite things and most hated things aren't necessarily going to be the favourite or most hated things of many of the people watching/reading their content to try and avoid the inevitable "you forgot X" or "you are wrong about Y" comments.

The explanation of why he doesn't care about SSB is the kind of thing that watching maybe one or two Zero Punctuation videos would show. But hey, people love their Nintendo nostalgia.

Frankly, I had no interest in you reviewing Smash Bros. You reviewed brawl, it clearly wasn't your thing. So how would your opinion on the iterative sequel be of any use? It'd be like you reviewing more than 1 mario kart.

I would say that what makes smash bros popular isn't the fan service, but the 4-8 player multiplayer. Its a GREAT party game, with an accessible fighter underneath it. Get friends who like the sillyness, and its a blast. If you can't do that, its got OK single player and online elements, but its really a shell of its true glory.

I was hoping that Yahtzee's affection for the Thief series would make Styx an honorable mention. But it looks like he never played it.

Nazulu:
I get you Yahtzee. I have no problem with you tearing any game a new one. However, you keep saying you can win/lose fighting games by randomly smashing buttons, and it's just such a load of shit. It holds as much merit as saying I can beat any FPS by randomly shooting anywhere (and funnily enough, I sometimes do).

Pretty much this. I get that there are a large number of people who don't like fighters, and that's totally cool. There are some genres I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole either. But the fallacy that someone who knows what they are doing in a fighting game can be beaten by random mashing is a fallacy that needs to die a swift and painful death. If that does happen, it's because of one of two things. First, the game is actually terribly designed and the lack of care in it's creation would make it a piece of trash in any genre. Second, the player who thinks they know what they're doing actually doesn't know what they are doing at all and is just using "But I spent 5 minutes in practice mode!!1!" as an excuse for bashing the game/genre. The reality is a player who truly knows what they are doing in fighter can beat a less skilled/knowledgeable opponent simply by using their most basic of skills/moves/etc. They don't need the super complex, multi button, split second timing, hours of practice requiring uber techniques that fighting games supposedly rely on.

GrumbleGrump:
To be honest though, I would enjoy him making a review of Smash U, just to piss off the fans again.

That would be delicious but between his comments in his last video and the stuff he wrote in this article I think it's good enough. And it is, going by people's reactions in the comment section for the former.

GrumbleGrump:

Gladion:
Everyone's free to not be interested in whatever, but saying that SSB's only reason of existence is brand recognition doesn't do it justice, really. Yes, pitting all those Nintendo characters against one another was what turned heads in the beginning, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to those games.

I dunno man. If Samus, Wario and Link weren't in Smash then I wouldn't have any interest in it.

Well, he has full rights to not like the game, the same way he has full rights to call, say, Limbo a good game, rather than the half-good game it is.

To be honest though, I would enjoy him making a review of Smash U, just to piss off the fans again.

You want another flame war/exhaustingly pointless argument? Why? Why would you ever?

I hate fighting games at this point too, but Yahtzee's reason for not even trying Smash is the very reason I like it over other fighting games. It doesn't do that stuff!

Look Yahtzee, you don't like Smash? Fair enough. You can beat anyone by just mashing buttons? Yeah...no. That just doesn't happen. Period.

As much as I enjoy SSB, does that really need to be reviewed? Its Smash Bros with a few new characters, maps, game modes and some rebalances. Its a fantastically fun game, but its more of the same. Its just more of the same that is pushed out once every console cycle as opposed to Ubisoft's more of the same every eighteen months, or EA's more of the same every twelve months. Yes, I know, SSB is different from other fighting games, I know that - its the reason I like SSB, because I generally don't enjoy fighting games. SSB is unique compared to other fighting games, but the series doesn't exactly do a lot to innovate with each intertion.

When people accuse Yahtzee of his nonexistent bias against Nintendo, it seems their true complaint is that he doesn't have bias FOR Nintendo, which these fanboys think everyone should have, "because it's Nintendo!" or something.

Guys - Yahtzee doesn't like multiplayer only games. He plays MMOs for the solo content. You should know this by now.

You said in your review of Dragon Age: Inquisition that you liked it the best out of the three. I'm surprised that also didn't get an honourable mention.

I know Smash Bros. isn't your thing (I don't like fighting games either, with the exception of Smash Bros.) but at least give it a go to learn the basics. It is nothing like other fighting games. You don't need to learn 20-button combinations that require 1/60th of a frame timing in order to do it. It is simply this;

Neutral-A, Forward-A, Up-A, Down-A
Neutral-B, Forward-B, Up-B, Down-B
Jump button
Shield Button
Grab Button

Every character in the game uses those moves, the moves are different but generally most characters have two jumps and a third (Up-B) to get back onto the stage. Just stay on the stage to win. I don't like fighting games but Smash Bros. is the only one I can get into because of its simplicity.

That was a good shot at Valve. I approve. :-)

I'm not big on fighting game or multiplayer in general either. Like Yahtzee, I too enjoy stuff like story and characters over game mechanics, so I get where he's coming from. Super Smash Bros. was fun for me to play for a bit, but I quickly grew bored with it and moved on to other games. I'll still play it with friends on rare occasions, but that's it.

SO Yahtzee doesn't like Ubisoft anymore. I suppose just bringing up Assassin's Creed: Rogue won't win him over, since it has more of the same from Black Flag, with some more features from III and some extra bells and whistles (grenades and early machine guns!) And you play as a Templar who kills Assassins!

I think a problem with Smash is that it has a difficult time, by its nature, appealing to anyone who plays it by his/herself.

Smash is frantic fun when it's a party game, but can probably get old quick when flying solo. I don't even necessarily think that the game needs a big Adventure Mode (wasn't a fan of Subspace Emissary), but evidently the games have not had a solid single-player audience. But of course, fulfilling those needs would take considerably more effort, more than it's arguably worth.

In the end, Yahtzee doesn't like Smash because he doesn't like the gameplay and he doesn't like what the game represents. Not sure what more people need.

Daigo Umehara would never lose a game of Street Fighter 4 to somebody just randomly mashing buttons. Heck, I'm a decent enough Street Fighter player, but as I stand, I would barely put a dent in his armour. I don't disagree with Yahtzee as much as most people seem to, but his belief system on adept fighting game players losing to inexperienced button mashers is just wrong.

That said, I don't know why people want to see him review Smash Bros for Wii U so badly. He's said pretty much everything he needed to in the Brawl review. It's not his thing, move on.

Thanatos2k:
When people accuse Yahtzee of his nonexistent bias against Nintendo, it seems their true complaint is that he doesn't have bias FOR Nintendo, which these fanboys think everyone should have, "because it's Nintendo!" or something.

Guys - Yahtzee doesn't like multiplayer only games. He plays MMOs for the solo content. You should know this by now.

Uh, yeah, we know. And in fact, we really didn't care whether or not he reviewed it. Because we knew what he would say before he would even touched it. The WORST thing we can say about him is "Yeah, he doesn't like Nintendo, moving on." because there's no point in debating over it. Whatever, we will never convince him of SSB or Nintendo's merits or virtues, life goes on.

Nostalgia is the only reason people play Smash Bros. and by extension Nintendo? I just remembered why I stopped watching ZP in the first place. I guess thinking they just make good games is not a good enough reason...

I hope one day on one of their let's plays Yahtzee tells Gabe (who is a fighting game fan) his ideas about skilled players being beaten by button mashers. Gabe will put him in his place. Although knowing how those two interact it'll probably turn into an argument with Yahtzee flat out refusing to believe Gabe.

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