The Big Picture: Age of Heroes

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Age of Heroes

How many super hero movies are too many?

Watch Video

Hey, as long as the individual movies themselves don't stink, you'll get no complaints from me.

I think it depends on how much the reboots suck in order not to be profitable....

The Dark Knight Rises is a bad example, unlike Batman and Robin it made a huge amount of money compared to its budget. And unlike Man of Steel it was well received by critics and audiences.

But I think I agree on the video's main point.

EDIT: I also think this could be an interesting response to the A Dose of Buckley video on it from a few months back, given that his main argument was that the increasingly serialised method of creating these films would put people off. Like if you had to watch Avengers 2 to watch Captain America 3 and you wasn't very interested in Avengers 2, you'll just watch neither.

I don't care much about when or if it's gonna end. I know of they go, but that time, I will no longer care, like the cop action movies from the 80's, which I love, but no longer crave.

But it's interesting to think how far they will go with this. Considering they're mostly adapting stories from 20 years ago or even longer than that.

Will they make it to superior Spiderman/Iron Man?

New 52?

That's another big difference between this fad and previous ones. Adaptation. Spaghetti Westerns weren't adaptations of other media. Some horrors movies were, but it was never the focus, and most of them are original, same for action flicks, so, it's interesting the newest fad is based on adaptations and rarely the spotlight is in original super hero movies... which reminds me, I'm not from the states, so is Meteor Man original or is an adaptation?

Evonisia:
The Dark Knight Rises is a bad example, unlike Batman and Robin it made a huge amount of money compared to its budget. And unlike Man of Steel it was well received by critics and audiences.

But I think I agree on the video's main point.

Man of Steel recieved mixed reaction, didn't it? Sort of half and half?

RatGouf:
I think it depends on how much the reboots suck in order not to be profitable....

Marvel's already said they'll be James Bonding it with their Characters (at least as far as Iron Man goes)

IOwnTheSpire:

Evonisia:
The Dark Knight Rises is a bad example, unlike Batman and Robin it made a huge amount of money compared to its budget. And unlike Man of Steel it was well received by critics and audiences.

But I think I agree on the video's main point.

Man of Steel recieved mixed reaction, didn't it? Sort of half and half?

Yes, near enough. I think Man of Steel would have been (and was) a bad example, too, but I was being charitable.

I don't know about world wide audiences but western audiences love serialization. Its an interesting point. As long as they don't start going cheap I see nothing in particular that would stop marvels momentum.

Earthfield:
That's another big difference between this fad and previous ones. Adaptation. Spaghetti Westerns weren't adaptations of other media.

The hell they weren't. The Western dime novel is the original American pulp format, predating both comic books and the science fiction/fantasy/horror pulp magazines like Amazing Stories and Weird Tales. There's a reason one of the first films ever made was a Western.

image

image

image

image

I can see what he was meaning with the comparison of more modern versions of Batman and Robin, but think he was wide of the mark by only using his own opinions and it seemed another trolly attempt to have a go at fans of those movies. B&R was both a critical and commercial flop; if it had made money then WB's theory that kids and comic fans will watch anything could have us in a very different superhero film world now.

By comparison Dark Knight Rises may have been mixed critically but made a metric f**k-tonne of money, same goes for X-Men 3 and I think Man of Steel did ok. Regardless of your opinion Spider-Man 3 did more damage to its franchise than Amazing 1 as it made Sony reboot it, despite doing well financially. So the fact Bob left that off his list is a bit ridiculous. That said Amazing 2 is fair game due to Sony's reaction to it.

Still end of the day it's his video series and his opinion, and despite the fan-boy baiting at the end (which I realise I've whole-heartedly taken) another very enjoyable video!

I'm beginning to think online journalism needs a new ad revenue algorithm. Like how youtube changed it from clicks to length watching video.

I'm not the kind of guy who's gonna whine that there are too many superhero movies. My main concern is that most of them, the ones being made outside of Marvel Studios/Disney, might not be good. We've seen a lot of bad movies from horror movie reboots to toy franchises being made without any understanding for the source material or any passion to make the damn thing. I don't need to mention names, those dead horses have been beaten enough. But, with certain movies like the Fantastic Four reboot and Batman V. Superman approaching with an air of uncertainty, it makes fans of these characters and comic fans in general very nervous. Plus, as Bob mentioned, a lot can happen between now and the release dates of these movies. We may not get every single one of them listed on Comics Alliance's chart.

Now I'm talking from an outsider perspective. The main reason super hero are movies are working is because the audience that watch those movies pay to do so. Look at the movie theaters, at least in my country, it is no longer about the movie, but it is about the spectacle. If the movie is not some grand juxtaposed presentation of explosions, make up and CGI the audience simply goes and say: well I can rent this movie later.
Also super hero are a sure bet. They are IP's which have been used in Comics, TV shows, cartoons, movies and video games. I believe people are getting lazy and afraid at the same time. Lazy because they want to watch stories that are predictable and afraid because a movie ticket or a video game is one expensive choice. People don't want to spend money on something they might regret later.

I think the real interesting question will be whether this is a true Superhero age, or if this is MARVEL's age. Let's face it, if Batman versus Superman tanks (IMHO possible, but not likely if only for how many people will go see it because they expect the trainwreck) WB/DC might pull back from their plans for a Justice League universe. That leaves Marvel's properties as the only hot ones at the box office. Based on all the leaked discussions from the Sony break-in, seems like Sony isn't really looking to go anywhere with Spiderman now, so that leaves Fox and Marvel films alone making these things. And Fox is making one film, what, every two-three years? Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Side note: I always find it fun when MovieBob gets so worked up his accent starts slipping back in.

Rises has an 88% on Rotten Tomatoes, took over a billion dollars at the box office and was nominated for several awards. Any way you cut it, it definitely wasn't a turkey. Hell, up to the point where Batman's taken to the pit I think it's a better movie than Dark Knight.

Personally I think it'll fade. Big, continuity driven universes will get cumbersome, especially considering actor changes. How are studios going to deal with that? Kill off profitable characters? Recast- if so, will there be an in-universe explanation or are we going James Bond style? It's all going to get messy and I think that could put a lot of people off. Maybe not so much that it all goes away completely, but it will get less profitable.

Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel were not bad films. Nowhere NEAR as bad as X Men 3 and X Men Origins: Wolverine (I would put Fantastic 4 in here, but...heck, Fantastic 4 and Silver Surfer too). Rises was disappointing, but it wasn't going to be anything else after the masterpiece that was The Dark Knight. Man of Steel could have been better, yes, but as someone who doesn't like Superman (though I am being persuaded that he is a better hero than I give him credit for), I enjoyed it.

I get Bob's point, but Rises and Man of Steel didn't need to be name-dropped as they were well received by fans and critics (moreso than the others mentioned, anyway). However, I am not looking forward to Batman vs Superman. It's turning into Justice League, but it won't work as the characters they are putting on screen won't resonate with the audience very well. Worked for Marvel due to their commitment to the characters individually, but this looks like WB are putting Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman to the forefront and saying 'Oh yeah, there are these other guys too'. They REALLY need to reconsider what they're doing with the separation of their TV heroes and their film heroes. I like Grant Gustin as Flash, but will I like Ezra Miller? Probably not, as it'll be a completely different Flash that will only have 2 hours to prove himself NEXT TO BATMAN, SUPERMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN.

Sorry, rant over. Whilst there's so many superhero films at the moment, only individual strands will end. Warner Bros, with their approach to Justice League, may well kill off interest in their films what with their rush to make Justice League.

I'm under no illusions that the DC/Marvel boom is going to last forever - maybe longer than I'm expecting or even than I'm alive for, but it will end, and even then superheroes in general won't completely die since there's plenty of content to mine or tropes to subvert and rework. The question though is what ends up replacing all this and I think it has to do with the zeitgeist or subconscious desire - right now, I think that's our dual fascination of personal narrative (you, yes YOU, can be anything you want if you work for it/are the Chosen One) and evolution or at least technical and cultural progress ("Homo-Superior" and surpassing human limits). Before, it was the idea of exploration and uncharted country - cowboys and astronauts. Now that we've figuratively shrunk the world, we either look further outward into deep space or turn inward and analyze ourselves and what we're capable of in terms of strength, morality, and influence. As far as I'm concerned, asking what's next in pop culture goes in hand with what comes next in the culture at large...hell if I know and good on anyone who's managed to figure it out and is writing it right now.

*quietly* I still think Daredevil was pretty decent.

Now, Punisher, on the other hand...

Honestly, what I think is going to kill the genre is the budgets. One of these doesn't have to bomb to make a loss, it just has to not be a worldwide super hit.

The answer of what stops this is something you are taking as given changes. I am not sure what it is, for the rise of superhero movies (at the expense of others) is the rise of easy access to movies and demographics changes (non-Americans being included). To stop this something underneath the surface and probably not even thought about much will need to change.

Note: This isn't saying anything that is actually bad, it just the way big systems that used to work fall apart. Assumptions are made because they work, then something changes and they stop working.

Yeah, Bob, you may have not liked Man of Steel, The Dark Knight Rises, or TAM1, and I certainly didn't like them, but they didn't bomb at the box office or leave a terrible taste in the mouth of the general movie-going audience like Green Lantern or Fantastic Four did. They weren't disasters to anybody but the actual fandom which, if we're being honest, isn't the primary audience of these films. Hell, if anything, I think its safe to separate the MCU from the rest of the superhero movies, as even if all of the other ones bomb, Marvel will still be doing well because it goes for general audience pleasers, while Man of Steel, while successful in cashing in on Superman's name, wasn't, and I doubt they're going to be able to keep up a series of completely miserable superhero movies.

In addition to the misplacing TDKR and MOS among the bad comic-book movies, I also have to call out Bob for implying anymore X-Men movies at all is a bad thing. I thought you liked DOFP?
But, I'm not worried about the state of superhero movies just yet. I have faith that Marvel and WB know what they're doing and can learn from their mistakes.
And I should pick up Grant Morrison's Supergods one of these days. In fact, do an episode on him! He's a pretty cool dude.

captcha: which one is math?
Like, in the Adventure Time sense?

Where would it stop?

Probably when the actors have to retire. Not sure how MCU would handle legacy characters.

Interesting argument, especially that bit about comic books not being primarily about superheroes. Nowadays those two words are practically synonymous. I don't think it will ever get to that point with films or other media, but it does paint a picture of the power of the genre, no pun intended. Super heroes being based in comics does give them a unique advantage in serialization, I can't think of any other genre or medium that has ever done it better. I think film producers realize this which is why, even though super heroes are hugely popular right now, we don't see that many "original" (ie not adapted from a comic) super hero movies trying to get their slice of the pie (name recognition definitely plays a role as well, but I think with Marvel's new line up of movies, that's going to become less and less important).

Rituro:
*quietly* I still think Daredevil was pretty decent.

Now, Punisher, on the other hand...

Seconded. Daredevil may not be the best! movie! evar!, but I'm still pleased they took a crack at it and can't say I was crushed by the final product.

Though I think the Punisher movies had a budget juuuust north of your average exploitation flick and so the result was probably less of a surprise to folks.

With films being interconnected and having long connected stories, I wonder if we're going to see a return to serials. Maybe we'll get a reboot of Radar Men fro the Moon!

Elijah Newton:
Though I think the Punisher movies had a budget juuuust north of your average exploitation flick and so the result was probably less of a surprise to folks.

Wasn't one of the reasons Punisher War Zone flopped was that it received an R rating? Which meant that all those kids with disposable income couldn't go see it? It's the same thing that everyone is afraid will happen to the Deadpool movie.

*quietly* I liked the last two Punisher movies.... Though it's been a long time since I've watched the Dolph Lundgren one.

The only thing that will really lessen the number of comic movies is other comic-like movies coming along and taking some of the popular interest. I think we're going to get several more american film adaptations of japanese manga/anime similar to what was done with Edge of Tomorrow. And I think a lot of that is currently riding on whether or not Ghost in the Shell happens and is done well and successful.

With how well pacific rim and the transformer movies did I'm surprised their isn't a gundam, evangelion, voltron or robotech film in the works either yet but I suspect at least one of those will happen in the next few years.

The only way I can see the superheroes films can be shifted to be less popular is probably a new fad (it never occur to me that Superheroes are like the new Western or horror film of this generation until Bob pointed it out) or maybe they outlived their stay, I mean how long can a contiunity can last but yet again Doctor Who is still going strong.

I can imagine Batfleck Vs. Baleman in DC's Crisis...

I love it when Bob is super enthusiastic about his subject matter and I can hear his accent. As an Australian, I don't get to hear that sweet accent often enough.

mgs16925:
Honestly, what I think is going to kill the genre is the budgets. One of these doesn't have to bomb to make a loss, it just has to not be a worldwide super hit.

I tend to agree with you, though I'd aggregate the statement to all of the current state of hollywood.

The latest Bayformers movie cost $220M to produce, not counting all the marketing hype that went into it. Of course, one needs to reduce that amount by the metric ton of product placement. If that thing had bombed...

So according to Bob, TDKR has officially gone from "somewhat disappointing sequel to TDK" to "almost genre-killing bomb comparable to the worst superhero movies ever."

Tune in next week when we learn that TDKR directly caused the rise of ISIS and might even be the source of cancer.

The "problem" with this imho is that the creation process has to be so big that the movies can't have balls or take legitimate risks with audience favor to satisfy the creative vision. Worm is easily the best superhero story I have ever seen, but its greatness comes from a brilliant writer free from the constraints of marketers and a need for mass appeal for financial sustainability. These freedoms are why Wildbow (the author) doesn't have to pull his punches and as a result, why Worm is so damn good.

Very nice video, though.

I'm right with bob on this. especially on the train being put into a permanent state of "KEEP GOING"

though, I am thinking ant man might be a dud, though I've not yet seen the trailer, but I keep imagining his skillset being highly niche and might not appeal to everyone at large.

I'm also kind of waiting for the internet reactionary groups (tumblr) to discover that one instance where while possessed by alien plot stuff and under insanity hit his wife, and see whether or not they take it out of context and try to boycott the film.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here