The Big Picture: Secret Crisis

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Secret Crisis

Will Secret Wars break the Marvel Universe's functional charm?

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Wow, he really does sound different with a cold.

Interesting take on the whole "Sliding Timeline" theory of comics.

I never had an issue with the way Marvel handled time and past events. Too bad they seem to be going full-DC on this one. Kinda glad I stopped reading their stuff a few years back.

Marvel did address how time works way back in the Sensational She-Hulk series.
She-Hulk meet the older version of the Blonde Phantom who explained that time slows to a crawl when your in the comics. However, when your no longer getting published you age like a normal person. And I mean normal in as much as normal can mean in comics.
As for when we find out the effects of this new Secret Wars, I think the answer is simple. A few years from now.

This won't be the first time they folded universes together though. Back in the late 80s, maybe early 90s they had a spin off called the New Universe. It was all about a world that didn't have super powered people suddenly getting them. It included characters like Starbrand and Spitfire, or groups like the DP7. Eventually those books folded and some of the elements made their way into mainstream Marvel books, but not any of the characters directly. Like the Star Brand made it's way to Quasar for a while, but not any of the people who wore the Brand in the New Universe. This as far as I know is Marvel's first attempt to merge and take parts of their various universes and spin off stories and mashing them together, the way DC has done numerous times combining and splitting alternate versions of their infinite Earths. Sadly that's one thing that a lot of people don't like about DC comics... so I'm not sure why Marvel thinks doing it themselves will get them any less flak.

This is something that bothers me a little about recent Doctor Who. A big part of a recent story arc revolved around rebooting the Universe (literally), so certain alien invasions never happened, and the Doctor is less known throughout the universe, including to his age old foes, the Daleks.

It was all really faffy and unnecessary. In a show where time changing happens all the time, you should just play it by ear on an episode by episode basis. If you want something that happened previously to be relevant and affect the story, let it. If not, don't.

Episodic story telling is so downtrodden these days. I like gratuitous continuity as much as the next guy, but it's become so prevalent, I'm actually starting to miss the old loosey goosey style of story telling. "All that stuff happened before... kind of" works great.

It worked out great for the HULK. We can substitute in the TV show, only he wasn't called David Banner, and the new movie, only he was played by Mark Ruffalo.

It's something they should really try with the Spider-man movies when they finally get round to rebooting it. Origin story, Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom, Lizard and Electro. All sort of happened, but a little different. So Ock can still be alive, and maybe instead of going to an insane asylum, Peter kept the Lizards secret, and now they're besties.

Maybe even take it a step further, and assume that other villains and allies have already had stories. Opening scene could be Spider-man foiling Shocker as he robs a bank just to say, "this is the tupe of world where this happens and there's super dudes all over the place". Or Black Cat shows up, they interact, and let the chemistry tell the history.

Yeah a reboot with Marvel does make sense as one of the things that did bother me with Marvel was the age/ timeline like Tony would be over 40 or 50's when his origin took place in the Vietnam war.

Granted how much of an reboot will it be, right from the beginning or at a present point but they will have rebooted origin comics (most likely to be the latter as do we need Peter in High School again?). Still there will be some present day stuff I will missed (Scott X Emma Frost than Scott X Jean). Still I wonder what will be Miles Moral place in the reboot? The second Spider-man or Spider-man sidekicked/ partner?

That's another thing, how did Marvel did NOT make a crossover event with 616 (main universe) and the Ultimate universe before they killed off mostly everyone in the Ultimate universe? No I don't mean the Spider-Men crossover, I mean every heroes and villains crossover like the 616 Avengers meet their Ultimate counterpart and etc.

The movies being the axis to the comic I think is a Dumb Idea because eventually the movies will reboot and try something new and all that stupid "synergy" will be wasted for short time gain.

"I Know Nothing!" was my captcha! :P

You know, every time I try to get back into comics I find myself smacked in the face with something that I tried to ignore, but couldn't with all the other cringe-worthy. Radically changed the art style into something lazy, where everyone looks the same except for what colors have been painted on. Make a villain out of Professor X. Turn Wolverine into a drooling, barely intelligent animal... The X-Babies. Oh god, the X-Babies. I was interested in trying to wade back in, to just let all the things that made my inner childhood weep at (AW Gambit?) but the idea that they'll be focusing on trotting out ideas to test how they might be received while shoving the properties they don't have movie ties to anymore to the back burner bums me out considerably. The movies/tv show idea may not hold, not with the super hero saturation we're getting from both Marvel and DC, the mainstream might become sick of them.

BTW, what about Magneto? Unlike Cap he lived ever since the end of WW2, so eventually... well... he'll get pretty old, no?

this is not a reboot. the continuity is still there, the characters are still there but they are taking that universe and fitting it together with other universes on a new planet. nothing is getting rewritten. i'm surprise how many comicbook people aren't getting this.

inu-kun:
BTW, what about Magneto? Unlike Cap he lived ever since the end of WW2, so eventually... well... he'll get pretty old, no?

They just change his age. You know from being an adult to being a baby, to be an old man to being a younger man and back to being a middle age man that is getting old. No I'm not making any of that up.

Was it an error that Greg Tito is listed as Editor in Chief during your end credits?

JSRevenge:
Was it an error that Greg Tito is listed as Editor in Chief during your end credits?

I had the same question

This is a little different from a reboot in that quite a few people continue to be aware of other universes. The x-men and Fantastic Four hop about quite a bit.

For clarification Marvel has more or less confirmed it's not just the Ultimate Universe they're going to collapse into 616. A few major people from Age of apocalypse, Old man Logan and marvel zombies should be somehow coming over as well.

I'm pretty ok with all of it. They trashed Ultimate marvel pretty bad. Ending the world a few times now. There's not a lot left to pick over. Looks like Jean grey is coming over with Miles to replace the dead one so 60s jean can eventually go back home I'm guessing. I think Prof is coming as well from one of the other continuities. That awful wolverine kid from Ultimate might come over. God I hope not.

Don't expect them to kill off x-men or anything. It's one of the better selling and most beloved franchises. they're just gonna push Inhumans more.

I wouldn't mind seeing PP spider-man take a break or die again so they can push MM and fuck over Sony. Spider-man dies all the time so no big deal.

I like that rather than reboot for lack of content like DC, Marvel is just housekeeping and at the same time all the characters take it in stride "werent you dead?" "meeh" comes up all the time :D.

I sometimes wonder if FF are meant to exist in these times. They are getting a bit old-fashioned. I actually dig the direction of the movie from the trailer.

noobiemcfoob:

JSRevenge:
Was it an error that Greg Tito is listed as Editor in Chief during your end credits?

I had the same question

Hey as of today he's still listed as such on the "About Us" page so why not.

Hopefully they grab up some of the secondary universe characters like Spider-girl and American Dream since they're already going thru the effort of doing this.

So if they downplay the X-Men and the Fantastic Four as suggested in the video, I wonder whether they'll do the same with Spider-Man. Unless Spider-Man was already unimportant, I wouldn't know.

JSRevenge:
Was it an error that Greg Tito is listed as Editor in Chief during your end credits?

I think it depends on when this was created, for it was created sometime last week it makes sense that he is still listed since it was already wrapped. I think the changes will start later this week or early next week when people have had time to update there slides for the recent changes.

Evonisia:
So if they downplay the X-Men and the Fantastic Four as suggested in the video, I wonder whether they'll do the same with Spider-Man. Unless Spider-Man was already unimportant, I wouldn't know.

I think the contract is different with Spider-Man and X-Men/Fantastic 4. If I remember the contract correctly Sony only gets royalties from the movies themselves and Marvel still gets all the toy revenue, but with Fox Marvel gets nothing.

Goddamnit Marvel, this likely means no more Kamala Kahn, the new Ms. Marvel. And she was the only one that gave me a reason to keep giving you money.

I hate this company nowadays. I really, REALLY do.

EDIT: This likely also means no more Wasp, Avenger's Academy cast, Squirrel Girl, "vampire Jubilee" (Yes you heard me) and every other B-D List superhero that I actually like and wish got better treatment because of this. What happened to the movie line being it's own thing?

LordTerminal:
Goddamnit Marvel, this likely means no more Kamala Kahn, the new Ms. Marvel. And she was the only one that gave me a reason to keep giving you money.

I hate this company nowadays. I really, REALLY do.

EDIT: This likely also means no more Wasp, Avenger's Academy cast, Squirrel Girl, "vampire Jubilee" (Yes you heard me) and every other B-D List superhero that I actually like and wish got better treatment because of this. What happened to the movie line being it's own thing?

Money. With the box office revenues the movies are making they want to make sure they don't have a major failure so the comics are probably going to be testing grounds for movie plots to see how the audience reacts to them.

Dear Marvel,
Just lead your current cast to satisfactory endings and start making new stories with new people doing new things.
Sincerely,
The guy who got you bankrupted.

Seriously, it's baffling how much crossover there is between people who complain about the stagnation and serialisation of popular video game franchises and people who care about comic books.

LordTerminal:
Goddamnit Marvel, this likely means no more Kamala Kahn, the new Ms. Marvel. And she was the only one that gave me a reason to keep giving you money.

I hate this company nowadays. I really, REALLY do.

EDIT: This likely also means no more Wasp, Avenger's Academy cast, Squirrel Girl, "vampire Jubilee" (Yes you heard me) and every other B-D List superhero that I actually like and wish got better treatment because of this. What happened to the movie line being it's own thing?

I doubt it. Considering the fact that Mrs. Marvel is one of their best selling titles (it topped the charts in October) and many of its issues have had several reprints. If anything because she falls into the Inhuman side of things we are going to see an increase of her across different books.

Plus Marvel is really pushing diversity right now so it would look really bad on them if they pulled one of their biggest characters for that.

Edit: It was the graphic novel (collection of issues) of Mrs. Marvel that topped the charts not the monthly series itself.

PetiteMoogle:
You know, every time I try to get back into comics I find myself smacked in the face with something that I tried to ignore, but couldn't with all the other cringe-worthy. Radically changed the art style into something lazy, where everyone looks the same except for what colors have been painted on. Make a villain out of Professor X. Turn Wolverine into a drooling, barely intelligent animal... The X-Babies. Oh god, the X-Babies. I was interested in trying to wade back in, to just let all the things that made my inner childhood weep at (AW Gambit?) but the idea that they'll be focusing on trotting out ideas to test how they might be received while shoving the properties they don't have movie ties to anymore to the back burner bums me out considerably. The movies/tv show idea may not hold, not with the super hero saturation we're getting from both Marvel and DC, the mainstream might become sick of them.

Just read the indie stuff, it's easier :P

V4Viewtiful:
The movies being the axis to the comic I think is a Dumb Idea because eventually the movies will reboot and try something new and all that stupid "synergy" will be wasted for short time gain.

The thing about that short term gain is that it's really, really big. Check the numbers here, for example. In 2008, the first year of the MCU, Marvel made $125 million from publishing, and $250 million from films. That being from two films including their first ever (Iron Man), and their worst reviewed and worst performing one (Incredible Hulk). So their first experimental foray into films, including their closest thing to failure to date, produced almost double the money that their comics did. Jump forward a few years and they've had more than one film make over a billion just at the box office. Throw in DVDs, merchandising, and so on, and they're easily making the same from one film that they could in a decade of comics.

And the thing is, comics aren't some constant thing that can always be relied on. They've never died out entirely, but they've had some serious downs. Marvel even went backrupt in the '90s. Messing with the comics to support the films might not last long term, and it might compromise the comics in the short term, but since a single successful film can easily cover problems with the comics for several years at least, I really don't think it can be called "wasted". Certainly not from Marvel's point of view at least. And of course, even if it doesn't work out in the long term, they can just do another reboot 10-15 years down the line. Which, let's be honest, is probably going to happen anyway.

about time, the Marvel reboot has been long overdue. Sure I'll miss the X-Men and Spider-Man not being as prominent as they should be in the grand scale of that universe but I'm still glad they'll be able to start a new hopefully X-23 and Wolverine can get a better shot a better characterization and actually be made into a father daughter relationship instead of the weird same person with different genders and ages thing they got now

as for the Ultimate universe, sure Miles Morales is amazing and I'm glad he's sticking around after Secret Wars, although I'm not sure how the character will work when he simply becomes a Spider-Man rather than the Spider-Man but maybe it'll be good... on the other hand I'm we're loosing Kitty Pryde and Mr.Fantastic Ultimate versions

Back when they first started the Ultimate Universe, I knew from day one it was going to cause issues down the road. There was never a particularly good reason to do it. When I started collecting, I just jumped in, and after reading for enough years, they would start to reference stories I had read, and that was neat. Of course, throw in the MCU, the Ultimate and the Continuity based universes and you basically have Crisis, which is what always has and always will break the DC Universe of books. Which is why I rolled my eyes the second they mentioned bringing back the Crisis idea in the "New 52". It breaks the whole reboot.

Also, it's annoying how they are trying to downplay the importance of books that were Marvel staples for what is now more than 50 years. The movies will not ever live up to what is done in the books and you risk alienating fans of what is some their hottest selling books.

Of course, this is clearly how they are going to bring Wolverine back. Not much of a death since we all knew he was coming back.

I love how many people glaze over what's being said and slide it into what they're used to. They are ending the Marvel Universe in that they're combining it with a bunch of other universes. The continuity still exists, the characters are still the same as they've been, but some will die, probably more from Alternate worlds than the main, and the worlds are merging.

It's essentially the stuff they liked from alternate worlds is going to come into the main universe, and some things from the main universe are just going to disappear.

Kahani:

V4Viewtiful:
The movies being the axis to the comic I think is a Dumb Idea because eventually the movies will reboot and try something new and all that stupid "synergy" will be wasted for short time gain.

The thing about that short term gain is that it's really, really big. Check the numbers here, for example. In 2008, the first year of the MCU, Marvel made $125 million from publishing, and $250 million from films. That being from two films including their first ever (Iron Man), and their worst reviewed and worst performing one (Incredible Hulk). So their first experimental foray into films, including their closest thing to failure to date, produced almost double the money that their comics did. Jump forward a few years and they've had more than one film make over a billion just at the box office. Throw in DVDs, merchandising, and so on, and they're easily making the same from one film that they could in a decade of comics.

The only thing about what you are saying is that movies and television, since they have been around have always dwarfed what comics make. Comics are niche, movies and television are not. It's not question of what is more profitable, it's a question of whether something is profitable.

Clearly they will use any overlap to bolster their comics business model though. The more like the movies this becomes, the more likely they are to endorse people into buying their way over priced books.

CrazyBlaze:

LordTerminal:
Goddamnit Marvel, this likely means no more Kamala Kahn, the new Ms. Marvel. And she was the only one that gave me a reason to keep giving you money.

I hate this company nowadays. I really, REALLY do.

EDIT: This likely also means no more Wasp, Avenger's Academy cast, Squirrel Girl, "vampire Jubilee" (Yes you heard me) and every other B-D List superhero that I actually like and wish got better treatment because of this. What happened to the movie line being it's own thing?

I doubt it. Considering the fact that Mrs. Marvel is one of their best selling titles (it topped the charts in October) and many of its issues have had several reprints. If anything because she falls into the Inhuman side of things we are going to see an increase of her across different books.

Plus Marvel is really pushing diversity right now so it would look really bad on them if they pulled one of their biggest characters for that.

Edit: It was the graphic novel (collection of issues) of Mrs. Marvel that topped the charts not the monthly series itself.

That never stopped them from killing off Mettle of Avenger's Academy in Avenger's Arena, and don't get me started on their plans to kill Deadpool in April. No, Marvel will fuck up their characters regardless of whether there's a fanbase and profits at risk if they think they can get away with it.

inu-kun:
BTW, what about Magneto? Unlike Cap he lived ever since the end of WW2, so eventually... well... he'll get pretty old, no?

Easy 1 sentence ret-con: His Magnetic powers also affects his aging process like Wolverine's healing factor does.

PetiteMoogle:
You know, every time I try to get back into comics I find myself smacked in the face with something that I tried to ignore, but couldn't with all the other cringe-worthy. Radically changed the art style into something lazy, where everyone looks the same except for what colors have been painted on. Make a villain out of Professor X. Turn Wolverine into a drooling, barely intelligent animal... The X-Babies. Oh god, the X-Babies. I was interested in trying to wade back in, to just let all the things that made my inner childhood weep at (AW Gambit?) but the idea that they'll be focusing on trotting out ideas to test how they might be received while shoving the properties they don't have movie ties to anymore to the back burner bums me out considerably. The movies/tv show idea may not hold, not with the super hero saturation we're getting from both Marvel and DC, the mainstream might become sick of them.

I'd suggest giving Dark Horse, Image, Boom!, and IDW a try. They cover pretty much all the genres that just don't seem to work for Marvel and DC.

As for SW...*shrug* I'm buying two books from Marvel solely on the basis of character loyalty. If those vanish in the aftermath of this event, I can spend my money elsewhere. With the exception of Ms Marvel, I haven't seen anything 'wow' worthy from Marvel or DC for a while.

inu-kun:
BTW, what about Magneto? Unlike Cap he lived ever since the end of WW2, so eventually... well... he'll get pretty old, no?

In the animated series he had stolen the capsule used to inject the serum into Captain America, altering it to youth him up when ever he needed it. Don't know about Charles though... space magic?

The only contributions the Ultimate Universe should bring over are the mentioned Miles, Jessica Drew (Ultimate Spider-Woman and gender-swapped clone of Peter Parker) and Ultimate Reed Richards (aka Mr. Fantastic). He turned evil because he's a fundamentally different character than the classic Reed Richards. He also turns out to be a way more effective villain that any iteration of Dr. Doom. He destroyed Washington DC and in the process killed the President, the Cabinet, Congress and probably the Supreme Court though I don't think they ever mentioned that. There were so few people left that the Secretary of Energy was the guy next in line to inherit the Presidency. He gets defeated in an incredibly anti-climactic way because they replaced the author of that book with a new guy for the resolution but all in all he was pretty fun to read.

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