Gotta Love Metal Gear Solid

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Gotta Love Metal Gear Solid

Gotta love Metal Gear Solid. By which I mean it is now mandatory to love Metal Gear Solid.

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I suspect the "in other words" thing is just a quirk of Japanese writing. I also see this used a ton in anime. It's as annoying as shit there too.

P.S. Thanks

P.P.S. Metal Gear?

I always find weird how Metal Gear as a series gets some stuff kind of right but then shoves weird stupid shit into it's game. For instance, they went to the point that the FOXdie virus had a somewhat specific mecahnism of action but then you get a floating gasmask psychic. Or when Naked Snake gets his hands on the modified 1911 and gushes about it but then you get a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

Covarr:
Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

I was thinking my comment should just be:
"Nanomachi- Nanomachi- Nanomachi- " from the time Hideo's dictaphone broke, because every time I think of him I first see that picture from ZP. Then I see the picture that the Escapist used a while with him riding on that child's toy duck... made out of nanomachi-

"less than intuitive controls.."

A bit rich from someone who made Poacher.

Honestly, the plot fell apart and I didn't listen to half of the tapes, but it is the only game since Deus Ex, Thief and Blood Money where I could just lie in wait for minutes, and take hours to slog through a mission infiltrating a place unseen. I haven't enjoyed any game's GAMEPLAY like this in many, many years. To say it has less than intuitive controls when it has the best controls in the whole MGS series to offer? Sometimes I doubt Yahtzee's commitment to Sparkle Motion.

The game is simply - fun. Gleeful at times. More of this in the game industry, please, rather than Gone Home and Sunset.

Umm, last I checked Springsteen wasn't around circa WW2, but I bet if you pointed this out to Kojima he would come up with some explanation as to how he could have been.

Thanatos2k:
Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

Its all perfectly logical so long as you never, ever look back and compare and always, always accept new stuff as it comes. :)

Then again, Snake seems perpetually confused about things anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XOSzVb0O0

ThinRedLine:
"less than intuitive controls.."

A bit rich from someone who made Poacher.

Honestly, the plot fell apart and I didn't listen to half of the tapes, but it is the only game since Deus Ex, Thief and Blood Money where I could just lie in wait for minutes, and take hours to slog through a mission infiltrating a place unseen. I haven't enjoyed any game's GAMEPLAY like this in many, many years. To say it has less than intuitive controls when it has the best controls in the whole MGS series to offer? Sometimes I doubt Yahtzee's commitment to Sparkle Motion.

The game is simply - fun. Gleeful at times. More of this in the game industry, please, rather than Gone Home and Sunset.

I agree with this, the controls are really really good.
And i am not even a fanboy or something, this is my very first Metal Gear Game.
What i just love, btw., is how you can call your horse, start running somewhere and the horse will start to run beside you so you can just jump on it midrun. That's so cool, that should be a mandatory thing now for every game that implements horses.

Lightspeaker:

Thanatos2k:
Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

Its all perfectly logical so long as you never, ever look back and compare and always, always accept new stuff as it comes. :)

I like to imagine that sometime around 1998 Kojima sat down at a typewriter with a redwood's worth of paper and a sack of cocaine, started writing, and never stopped or reread anything until both were finished.

Later, he couldn't make heads or tails of it, but he figured it was genius anyways so he decided to just put it all out straight-faced. It's built on insane dream logic, where he pins down any idea and goes off on it for an hour, then takes off a mach speed for something else for no apparent reason.

Lightspeaker:

Thanatos2k:
Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

Its all perfectly logical so long as you never, ever look back and compare and always, always accept new stuff as it comes. :)

Then again, Snake seems perpetually confused about things anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XOSzVb0O0

I actually used that video as the helicopter song.

OT: All in all Kojima should have stopped a long time ago if he is afraid of showing Big Boss in a bad light, in the end it only made the series an even bigger mess.

Amaror:

What i just love, btw., is how you can call your horse, start running somewhere and the horse will start to run beside you so you can just jump on it midrun. That's so cool, that should be a mandatory thing now for every game that implements horses.

I think Shadow of the Colossus had the same thing, and it was great as well. Here it works very intuitively when you call your horse, start hauling ass and then D-Horse comes along, as you said, very satisfying.

Believe it or not someone lined up the story to the Metal Gear franchise, and after reading it: my brain hurts...

Also might as well point out that the NES Metal Gear was not made by Kojima or any of the original team that made the game for the MSX2 gaming computer & that the port was handled as well as Thief: Deadly Shadows' 3rd person mode aka almost broken. Also "Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake" if you want to rant why the PS1 game was technically a step backwards. You can find both games bundled in the Subsistence release of MGS3: Snake Eater, so Legacy Collection & the HD Collections have them as well.

But that's my rambling.

The biggest problem with most MGS games is just they're more fun to watch than they are to play...and even then the messages sorta get hammered in alot of the time more than they probably should.

Thunderous Cacophony:

Lightspeaker:

Thanatos2k:
Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

Its all perfectly logical so long as you never, ever look back and compare and always, always accept new stuff as it comes. :)

I like to imagine that sometime around 1998 Kojima sat down at a typewriter with a redwood's worth of paper and a sack of cocaine, started writing, and never stopped or reread anything until both were finished.

Later, he couldn't make heads or tails of it, but he figured it was genius anyways so he decided to just put it all out straight-faced. It's built on insane dream logic, where he pins down any idea and goes off on it for an hour, then takes off a mach speed for something else for no apparent reason.

Nah, he is VERY clearly making it up as he goes along. I'm not convinced he plans out even one game at a time.

GrumbleGrump:

Covarr:
Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

Metal Gear, huh?

Honestly, I have no idea why I love MGS so much. The story and the characters I mean. I love the gameplay. I always had a thing for stealth games and MGS is the pinnacle of stealth. Especially MGS V. But yes, the story is convoluted and mostly senseless, the dialogue is atrocious and characters are very inconsistent at times. It's one of those games that you have to play with headphones on because you don't want anyone else to hear the often embarrassingly bad dialogue. Yet I adore it. Despite the obvious flaws I love everything about it. Flaws included. No idea why.

I'm one of "those" very familiar with the whole plot. And I am not really satisfied with MGSV "story" of the idea that Snake barely talks in this one. Kojima should have just toned it down a little. But he seems to be unable to balance things out. He must go from one extreme to the other. Instead of talkative Snake we now have a mute, and the story suffers for it greatly. Well, it also suffers because it is cut short. It's so obviously rushed and incomplete it would make my blood boil but EA made sure that can't happen again after ME3. I just don't have the energy to get upset anymore. Besides, gameplay is amazing so at least there's that.

Metal Gear is one of my favorite series. The attention to detail and attempts at realism mixed with the batshit crazy bosses and storylines just work for me. There was just nothing quite like the original MGS and despite the change in protagonist, 2 improved the gameplay in just about every way and it just got better with each iteration.

5 is fantastic so far, despite a few flaws, and I see myself playing it for at least the rest of the year. Then I just might do something crazy and replay the whole series for fun.

...Is it the 'FucKonami Effect'?

Thanatos2k:
Well sure, very little has been retconned and it was never rebooted because the plot overall makes no sense at all. Who needs retconns or a reboot when you can just keep going, it's not like logic ever meant much in Metal Gear.

I breathe through my skin.

I honestly think that the reason no one minds all those plot holes is because the vast majority of people playing video games just don't pay attention to anything beyond game play.

A good example of this is Final Fantasy XIII, a game with switches view points from its considerable cast telling the story from multiple angles but uses a linear gameplay path. #1 complain about the game? Too linear!

People just don't pay attention I tell you.

I think Metal Gear has always been about the fun first and rationalizing it second. The question isn't "Why do I need to guide this remote-controlled rocket somewhere?" so much as it's "Hey, let's play with remote-controlled rockets for a bit! And, uh... I'unno, maybe the room is full of poison gas and electrified floors. Let's go with that."

Poison gas is real problem if you breathe through your skin, I bet.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm half-surprised there was never a sequence in which a female character had to get past electrified floors by donning special, electricity-proof high-heels. Completely practical reasoning!
Unless that happened in one of the games I never played...?

Nanomachines?
Kudos for continuous storytelling and all that, but I can't ever get over the stupidity of the plot/dialogue/characters/designs/etc.

I do quite enjoy most things about Metal Gear. The completely straightfaced nature of the plot does come with drawbacks however, Kojima tends to go back to previous games where he's just been po faced about things like masochist bee men or old man snipers with eyes that pop out or telepathic BDSM people or... yeah. But he goes back with his current obsession of the week and tries to explain everything away, MGS4 was hilarious in how straightfaced it just handwaved things with "Nanomachines did it" (Nanomachines, Son) and MSGV is doing something similar to MGS3 (No spoilers don't worry, it's in the tapes). Kojima just can't leave the bits that people just accept "because it's metal gear" anymore, he keeps going back and trying to explain all the fantasy super soldiers that nobody wants explained because it was brilliantly straight faced at the time.

I adore how it makes no sense but takes itself so seriously. And when Kojima tries to explain things it often ends up making even less sense but it never feels quite as straight faced and loses some of the "ok, that roller blading bomberman/ flamenco dancing vampire/ giant flaming ghost face/ BDSM clad psychic/ etc just happened" charm.

Adam Jensen:

GrumbleGrump:

Covarr:
Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

Metal Gear, huh?

In other words, Metal Gear.

I got Guns of the Patriot for free when I bought my first PS3. My friend got me a copy of Metal Gear Solid and I played that before hand so that I wouldn't be completely in the dark. And it helped. I got a lot of stuff that was referenced in Guns because I had played Solid.

But that's when I noticed something. If I was able to understand stuff well enough just from playing one game, what did it mean for the other two games? So I tried to look up the story, and my brain just shut down. I decided I was perfectly content with just the story from those two games, because trying to understand any more was not worth it to me.

Sniper Team 4:
I got Guns of the Patriot for free when I bought my first PS3. My friend got me a copy of Metal Gear Solid and I played that before hand so that I wouldn't be completely in the dark. And it helped. I got a lot of stuff that was referenced in Guns because I had played Solid.

But that's when I noticed something. If I was able to understand stuff well enough just from playing one game, what did it mean for the other two games? So I tried to look up the story, and my brain just shut down. I decided I was perfectly content with just the story from those two games, because trying to understand any more was not worth it to me.

You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWU5YaUkh8w&list=PL7vAeDYh8SvQIGYvUtmXkbApFNLUOOrdT

Incredibly consistent game design that gives you control over every action. mgs4's mechanics hit a peak having incredibly expansive and well polished stealth, shooting, melee combat, movement, guard ai and none of it was contextual all of it had a purpose. Along with it's boss fights which are works of art in it of themselves. The amount of interactions and reactions each one has adds new uses to all your already available skills/items.

MGSV has a dumbed down melee system and the bosses aren't that great but the stealth and shooting are still top tier and I can't wait for MGO3.

vallorn:
You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. MGS3 is the best gameplay wise. But MGS2 tells a story that is probably the best in the series if not for all of video games. It does require players having played mgs1 and being a fan of that game to fully understand the meaning of it as it's telling a story about the player and is just using the world of MGS1 to tell it.

Siesta45:

vallorn:
You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. MGS3 is the best gameplay wise. But MGS2 tells a story that is probably the best in the series if not for all of video games. It does require players having played mgs1 and being a fan of that game to fully understand the meaning of it as it's telling a story about the player and is just using the world of MGS1 to tell it.

It's story is good after you get into the nitty gritty and understand the themes and design decisions surrounding it. But all I'm saying is that it "can" be avoided. You can generally hold together the rest of the story of the games without it since Kojima loves to explain things that happened in previous titles.

It's a good game, hands down. It's a Metal Gear game and that's pretty solid as a mark of quality goes, but it's possible to avoid it and it's not really my favorite. But then I have a penchant for the James Bond themed nonsense of Snake Eater (or Subsistence if you want to play with a working camera) over MSG2's gameplay and parts of it's story.

Siesta45:

vallorn:
You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. MGS3 is the best gameplay wise. But MGS2 tells a story that is probably the best in the series if not for all of video games. It does require players having played mgs1 and being a fan of that game to fully understand the meaning of it as it's telling a story about the player and is just using the world of MGS1 to tell it.

The only Metal Gear game I've tried playing is MGS3. I stopped because I couldn't figure out how to get any of the controls to work sometime after I got past the first few enemies.

I think Metal Gear is popular for the same reason Donald Trump is popular: There's just plain something charming about honesty, about being honest on who you are and what you do. Metal Gear is batshit insane, and it will be completely honest with you about that.

The comparison kind of falls apart because Metal Gear is insane with good intentions rather than malicious, but whatever, let's not get bogged down in every little detail.

Covarr:
I suspect the "in other words" thing is just a quirk of Japanese writing. I also see this used a ton in anime. It's as annoying as shit there too.

P.S. Thanks

P.P.S. Metal Gear?

Same. A buddy of mine went to Japan. According to him, making a proper statement in a Japanese meeting room takes at least as long as it would take to make the statement in Entish.

*pounce*

I got a free code for The Phantom Pain with my graphics card. I decided to sell it when I read that it's a stealth game. I really tried to get through Splinter Cell: Blacklist but at some point I j--- LEEROY!

caballitomalo:
I honestly think that the reason no one minds all those plot holes is because the vast majority of people playing video games just don't pay attention to anything beyond game play.

I agree. But I'm not sure why some games get (unfair) criticism. Do people only pay attention if someone brings it up and tells them what to think?

GrumbleGrump:
a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

vallorn:
old man snipers with eyes that pop out

You had me at Naked Snake.

GrumbleGrump:
I always find weird how Metal Gear as a series gets some stuff kind of right but then shoves weird stupid shit into it's game. For instance, they went to the point that the FOXdie virus had a somewhat specific mecahnism of action but then you get a floating gasmask psychic. Or when Naked Snake gets his hands on the modified 1911 and gushes about it but then you get a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

Covarr:
Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

thanatos388:

GrumbleGrump:
I always find weird how Metal Gear as a series gets some stuff kind of right but then shoves weird stupid shit into it's game. For instance, they went to the point that the FOXdie virus had a somewhat specific mecahnism of action but then you get a floating gasmask psychic. Or when Naked Snake gets his hands on the modified 1911 and gushes about it but then you get a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

Covarr:
Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I8HOzJpHeU

Metal Gear is an example of "one step removed" rather than outright sci-fi/sci-fa. The idea being that it's the world as we know it, but with a few key differences. Not based on "point of divergence," where a single event changes the history of the world as we understand it, but where certain things are different and accepted, e.g.

-Psychic powers
-Nanomachines
-Gene therapy
-Accepted use of bi-pedal walkers as weapons of war (the Metal Gears themselves)
-Cybernetics (most prolific in Revengence, but it goes as far back as the original Metal Gear itself)
-War economy

And so on. The above link is the first part of a rumination series on Metal Gear that I highly recomend, along with many other games/game series and other things (e.g. films).

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