Batman v Superman - Dawn of Justice - Cultivating Apathy

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Batman v Superman - Dawn of Justice - Cultivating Apathy

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice takes a simple premise and fills it with so much bloat and convolution that it becomes too big of a mess to be worth it.

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Hehehe, that was about what I expected from your review of this movie (considering all the other reviews I've read for it).

One of my favorite lines from a review is "Batman v Superman is the movie that will make you hate Batman and Superman."

Pretty sure this movie clinches it: no one is going to give two shits or a fuck about the DC movie universe. This movie was meant to be the foundation...and apparently it's a foundation built on sand.

PS: I do find it quite hilarious that every review I've read has said something along the lines of "If you saw that one trailer that made everyone ask "Did they just spoil every plot point in the movie?" the answer is yes: they most certainly did."

I thought it was good: I liked the dark theme and attempt at seriousness...However it is deeply flawed. I thought Affleck nailed it. However every building in Gotham and Maetropolis seemed to be constructed of toilet paper and some form of solidified petrol...I'm looking forward to the directors cut.

grey_space:
I thought it was good: I liked the dark theme and attempt at seriousness...However it is deeply flawed. I thought Affleck nailed it. However every building in Gotham and Maetropolis seemed to be constructed of toilet paper and some form of solidified petrol...I'm looking forward to the directors cut.

I'm not gonna say I am looking forward to the Directors Cut....but I am going to say I have a slight hope that the DC will make it into at least a tolerable movie, as was mostly the case with the first Daredevil movie imo. The Directors cut was much, much better.

Yes. Affleck was good.

The dark theme is decent, and it has worked for Batman. But batman is a dark character, superman is really not. And if you have one dark guy...another one is just gonna be the fifth wheel. You cant bounce off each other when you're the same. Even Wonder woman was bland gray. Is Znyder incapable of seeing
color?

What little we saw of wonder woman was cool, but she was, as most "characters" in this movie...a cardboard cutout at best. There was nothing at all to differentiate her from Superman. She could take a superpunch and had a sword+shield. The "trinity" moment was lame, the only enjoyable moment in the entire movie was when they were all 3 attacking Doomsday. A bit cool.

Znyder is a travesty. He should be fired and not let close to any superhero movie again.

Honestly, if he had cut the amount of slow motion "check this out people" scenes by half, we might have had time for some actual story.

Also, Lex was a disgrace. Capably acted, but all over the place and never what he should be.

The only positive thing I have to say about BvS is that, when looking back, its gonna make Man of Steel be a better movie by comparison.

God, I can not wait to see how much money DC pissed away on this mess.
Sad thing is my brother kinda still wants to go see it, then again, he was the kinda guy who sorta liked ASM2, though even he had to admit the ending with Rhino sucked.

Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

tzimize:

grey_space:
I thought it was good: I liked the dark theme and attempt at seriousness...However it is deeply flawed. I thought Affleck nailed it. However every building in Gotham and Maetropolis seemed to be constructed of toilet paper and some form of solidified petrol...I'm looking forward to the directors cut.

I'm not gonna say I am looking forward to the Directors Cut....but I am going to say I have a slight hope that the DC will make it into at least a tolerable movie, as was mostly the case with the first Daredevil movie imo. The Directors cut was much, much better.

Yes. Affleck was good.

The dark theme is decent, and it has worked for Batman. But batman is a dark character, superman is really not. And if you have one dark guy...another one is just gonna be the fifth wheel. You cant bounce off each other when you're the same. Even Wonder woman was bland gray. Is Znyder incapable of seeing
color?

What little we saw of wonder woman was cool, but she was, as most "characters" in this movie...a cardboard cutout at best. There was nothing at all to differentiate her from Superman. She could take a superpunch and had a sword+shield. The "trinity" moment was lame, the only enjoyable moment in the entire movie was when they were all 3 attacking Doomsday. A bit cool.

Znyder is a travesty. He should be fired and not let close to any superhero movie again.

Honestly, if he had cut the amount of slow motion "check this out people" scenes by half, we might have had time for some actual story.

Also, Lex was a disgrace. Capably acted, but all over the place and never what he should be.

The only positive thing I have to say about BvS is that, when looking back, its gonna make Man of Steel be a better movie by comparison.

I think we should shift the blame to Warner Bros. movie company because they seem to be incapable of making anything other then Batman Dark Knight because Dark Knight won a billion dollars and they want that same success again so they think repeating that formula of Dark Knight would succeed.

I mean look at Green Lantern, and Zack had nothing to do with that movie.

Worgen:
Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

No I always saw DC as the more serious one.

I mean look at the DCAU, not all the Superman episodes were comedic.

Can't say I'm all that surprised given that the trailer appeared to be all over the place.

I've been reading other reviews too and that seems to be a common theme. That and Ben Affleck put in a good performance, which was something I was expecting since he has some good acting chops.

This movie will make money overseas, so it will justify a sequel and a Justice League movie. Both of which I'm not stoked about.

Fiz_The_Toaster:
Can't say I'm all that surprised given that the trailer appeared to be all over the place.

I've been reading other reviews too and that seems to be a common theme. That and Ben Affleck put in a good performance, which was something I was expecting since he has some good acting chops.

This movie will make money overseas, so it will justify a sequel and a Justice League movie. Both of which I'm not stoked about.

A sequal and a Justice League movie?

You mean they are gonna make a Batman v Superman 2 ;)

Samtemdo8:

Worgen:
Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

No I always saw DC as the more serious one.

I mean look at the DCAU, not all the Superman episodes were comedic.

The DC ones have tended to be the more serious ones. The Tim Burton Batman movies are the good exceptions, they are dark but they are very comic book.

I'm not saying comedic, I'm saying light. There is a difference. Marvel movies tend to embrace their weirdness, DC ones seem to be ashamed of it.

Samtemdo8:

Fiz_The_Toaster:
Can't say I'm all that surprised given that the trailer appeared to be all over the place.

I've been reading other reviews too and that seems to be a common theme. That and Ben Affleck put in a good performance, which was something I was expecting since he has some good acting chops.

This movie will make money overseas, so it will justify a sequel and a Justice League movie. Both of which I'm not stoked about.

A sequal and a Justice League movie?

You mean they are gonna make a Batman v Superman 2 ;)

Batman v Superman 2: Electric Boogaloo.

I think I mean in the sense that they will have a movie together or something. I guess BvS is a sequel to MoS in a sense, so DC will probably come up with something with the two of them.

Also, I haven't had enough coffee this morning. >.>

Worgen:

Samtemdo8:

Worgen:
Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

No I always saw DC as the more serious one.

I mean look at the DCAU, not all the Superman episodes were comedic.

The DC ones have tended to be the more serious ones. The Tim Burton Batman movies are the good exceptions, they are dark but they are very comic book.

I'm not saying comedic, I'm saying light. There is a difference. Marvel movies tend to embrace their weirdness, DC ones seem to be ashamed of it.

I have read some comic books and lets just say sometimes the weirdness would just not work in a live action movie.

I mean look at Watchmen and the controversial alien monster thing no being incorporated in the movie.

And also compare the Superman comic book What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way to Superman to Superman vs The Elite and tell me which ome looked less goofy?

(The comic book has a Japanese Themed Superheroes like an Ice Samurai, and a Giant Cyber Gorilla terrorizing Syria and of course it shoehorns in extra canonical stuff)

I liked this take on the superhero genre - the film's attempt at foregoing retreads of origin stories outside of dream sequences was refreshing. The characters at this point are established. It's simply a matter of pulling them together for the big fight that a select few know is coming. DD, much to peoples' dismay wasn't simply shoehorned in to up the ante at the last minute. He wasn't a happy accident. It was planned from the very beginning so the big fight that culminated at the end was quite justified and very fun to watch. Plus, with the destruction of the previous film being a major plotpoint for this one, it was a factor when choosing where the fight took place.

Zack Snder's trademark beige overlay and bloom lighting, as well as his fondness for sad, snowy intros, are all in full effect, so if you've seen Watchmen or Sucker Punch, there will be a bit of happy deja vu in some scenes, most notably the first 5 minutes.

As mentioned, outside of dreams and the occasional memorial, origin stories are left largely untold. Bruce Wayne is an older, angrier Batman who has given up the moral highground for more brutal justice. Think Rorschach after he found that child killer in Watchmen. That same switch had been flipped in Batman and for good reason.

Gal Gadot's role as Wonder Woman was solid, far better than I expected. She acted like someone who had existed for hundreds of years should act - like the smartest person in the room, trying to hide the fact that this was the case. And when she finally steps up to fight, it is a fun watch. She uses all the tools in the drawer fighting DD and holds her own against what is essentially a giant mutant Kryptonian caveman that explodes. If you have been keeping up with the Superman books, it's Clark's new trick, but DD can do it repeatedly.

If the film had one failing that stood out, it was Eisenberg's Lex. This was not the mad genius megalomaniac we all have grown to hate in the books. This is his kid, a mildly autistic supergenius with a hatred for god figures stemming from a hatred of his own father. He's not one for grandiose speeches, more "get out of my way so i can do evil things with dead aliens." Him and younger Bruce from Batman Begins could have been buddies with how they passively run a company while keeping the public at arm's length.

Overall, a solid comic book film with some flaws but far from terrible and worth the cost of a ticket.

It certainly isn't as bad as people are saying. But it may only be somewhat better than Man of Steel.

There are DEFINITELY parts worth seeing that weren't in the trailer and took me by surprise, I even appreciated some of Jessie Eisenberg's ramblings, although as said, he is more of a psychotic villain rather than the calculating villain (think the Master from recent Doctor who).

Like Lex, Afleck's batman is definitely closer to the unstable batman than the animated unshakeable batman, so some fans may not like that.

It is somewhat bloated, with maybe one or two too many central conceits, non-DC fans may get confused. There are shades of "Injustice Gods amongst us*" if you like that story.

*Which some interesting post is no doubt going to inform me was based on episode X, based on comic Y ripped of from novel Z from twilight zone episode P

Having a dark or more mature story does not mean your characters need to be dark and broody. You can have a serious Superman story without all the angst at a high school prom. The tone of the story doesn't need to be the tone of the characters, they can be mutually exclusive. The people making the current DC live action films don't seem to understand that.

Samtemdo8:

Worgen:

Samtemdo8:

No I always saw DC as the more serious one.

I mean look at the DCAU, not all the Superman episodes were comedic.

The DC ones have tended to be the more serious ones. The Tim Burton Batman movies are the good exceptions, they are dark but they are very comic book.

I'm not saying comedic, I'm saying light. There is a difference. Marvel movies tend to embrace their weirdness, DC ones seem to be ashamed of it.

I have read some comic books and lets just say sometimes the weirdness would just not work in a live action movie.

I mean look at Watchmen and the controversial alien monster thing no being incorporated in the movie.

And also compare the Superman comic book What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way to Superman to Superman vs The Elite and tell me which ome looked less goofy?

(The comic book has a Japanese Themed Superheroes like an Ice Samurai, and a Giant Cyber Gorilla terrorizing Syria and of course it shoehorns in extra canonical stuff)

What they came up with in the watchmen was worse. Really I think the superman animated series should have been a guide for these movies. It did the character quite well.

Ouch, one and a half stars. Isn't that the same rating you gave Pixels?

I don't think anybody could have deluded themselves into thinking that the film wouldn't be a mess with so many assets, but even despite the mess it could've been enjoyable nonetheless. I think I'll hold off until the R-rated director's cut is out.

Speaking of which, people who have seen the movie, does the action look chopped up in a obvious way to avoid blood and gore that was (probably) in the original cut? Because I'm expecting a fair amount of that but nobody has mentioned it in any review I've seen.

Worgen:
Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

In these pages, someone once wrote that characters need to be who they are. Batman can be dark and that is OK. Superman should not be! Batman is about angst, Superman hope. Instead, they're trying to be "The Dark Knight" and should not be.

They should all be forced to sit in a room and watch "Captain America: Winter Soldier" on loop with "Clockwork Orange" eye openers until they get it. Let your hero be who he is rather than trying to be some other popular character from another movie. And you can have a sense of real urgency in a fantasy movie while keeping it fun.

The last five Superman movies have not gotten it right. That's a lot of whiffed at softballs.

I think the superman animated series should have been a guide for these movies. It did the character quite well.

I second that. Fantastic series that understood tone and the character. Just bring that sort of thing to life

Trek1701a:
Having a dark or more mature story does not mean your characters need to be dark and broody. You can have a serious Superman story without all the angst at a high school prom. The tone of the story doesn't need to be the tone of the characters, they can be mutually exclusive. The people making the current DC live action films don't seem to understand that.

The Justice League cartoon nailed this with the Justice Lords subplot, which spanned longer than an entire season without having to make any sort of major sacrifices.

Gorfias:

Worgen:
Its weird how dc movies are the dark ones and Marvel are the more light hearted. Since dc is the weirder comic universe which would really benefit from a lighter tone. But Marvel tends to have more complex characters who have to deal with the weirdness of growing up or alcohol dependence or abuse or being discriminated against. Marvel could go much darker and still be good, but the well known DC heroes are essentially Greek gods. Being dark doesn't help that.

In these pages, someone once wrote that characters need to be who they are. Batman can be dark and that is OK. Superman should not be! Batman is about angst, Superman hope. Instead, they're trying to be "The Dark Knight" and should not be.

They should all be forced to sit in a room and watch "Captain America: Winter Soldier" on loop with "Clockwork Orange" eye openers until they get it. Let your hero be who he is rather than trying to be some other popular character from another movie. And you can have a sense of real urgency in a fantasy movie while keeping it fun.

The last five Superman movies have not gotten it right. That's a lot of whiffed at softballs.

Even batman should't be that dark. I mean part of his moral compass is not killing people. If you make his badguys to bad then him not killing them just looks sillier and sillier. Plus if batman didn't kill them then the cops sure as hell would.

I did love Winter Solder. Although it was so stupid how they made pretty much every bad thing in the 20th century be part of hydras master plan. That was lame.

Worgen:

Even batman should't be that dark. I mean part of his moral compass is not killing people. If you make his badguys to bad then him not killing them just looks sillier and sillier. Plus if batman didn't kill them then the cops sure as hell would..

I see this tomorrow with my nephew and I had heard that in this, Batman does have a casual attitude about not killing which undermines his character. One of the best depictions of him was "Kingdom Come" where he is a dark, snarky old bastard and he is turning down helping Superman. In reality, he is not being cynical, he is acknowledging that he is human and will be of limited assistance. Superman reminds him that he knows, deep down inside, Batman doesn't want anyone ever being killed.

Gorfias:

Worgen:

Even batman should't be that dark. I mean part of his moral compass is not killing people. If you make his badguys to bad then him not killing them just looks sillier and sillier. Plus if batman didn't kill them then the cops sure as hell would..

I see this tomorrow with my nephew and I had heard that in this, Batman does have a casual attitude about not killing which undermines his character. One of the best depictions of him was "Kingdom Come" where he is a dark, snarky old bastard and he is turning down helping Superman. In reality, he is not being cynical, he is acknowledging that he is human and will be of limited assistance. Superman reminds him that he knows, deep down inside, Batman doesn't want anyone ever being killed.

I haven't seen it but apparently he doesn't have a casual attitude to not killing, he goes out of his way to rack up a rather large body count.

grey_space:
I'm looking forward to the directors cut.

Just remember, the directors cut of Green Lantern actually made it worse.

I still don't get why Warner Brothers haven't just looked at the various animated series from 1993-2006 and collectively exclaimed oh my God that's a movie franchise. But then I assume none of the people making the big decisions would lower themselves to actually watching super hero anything, least of all cartoons.

Warner/DC just need to stop.

Green Lantern was supposed to be the launch of their cinematic universe, and then that got airbrushed out of the history books in favor of Man of Steel, and now this surely has to be the end of the line for that delusion, even if it does manage to make enough money to justify its own existence.

They just need to drop this entire thing, at least until someone comes up with an actual vision that isn't "let's just keep trying to make The Dark Knight again" or "Let's just do what Marvel does."

MarsAtlas:

Trek1701a:
Having a dark or more mature story does not mean your characters need to be dark and broody. You can have a serious Superman story without all the angst at a high school prom. The tone of the story doesn't need to be the tone of the characters, they can be mutually exclusive. The people making the current DC live action films don't seem to understand that.

The Justice League cartoon nailed this with the Justice Lords subplot, which spanned longer than an entire season without having to make any sort of major sacrifices.

Totally, I mean, I kinda started re-watching the entire series when I was in my first year of college, a lot of it is less like a cartoon and more legit good viewing at times.

fix-the-spade:

grey_space:
I'm looking forward to the directors cut.

Just remember, the directors cut of Green Lantern actually made it worse.

...Really? I thought I heard it made it better?

Granted, a polished Turd is still a Turd, but this is the first I heard about the Directors Cut being worse.

I have no stake in these films, since Nolan did the grounded trilogy, it makes the CGI fest all the more jarring and irritating. So much money, advertisement and over-excitement. Can't even muster the excitement for Marvel movies either now. Getting burnt out on these "safe bet" superhero adaptations. This review hasn't changed a thing. I'm sure it'll be an alright bit of dumb entertainment to pass the time around a particularly boring person's house when the only other option is Miss congealed reality 2. The trailers remove any mystery that could've intrigued me to go, but no. Why does marketing not understand the importance of mystery?? Does anybody remember seeing the original Matrix trailer for the first time and thinking "What the hell did i just experience? I must find out more!"?

So, almost everything we were worried about from this movie came true. DC/Warner Bros. is trying to catch up to Marvel. They are still attempting to do in 2-3 movies what Marvel did in 5-6 movies. Lois Lane is still being treated like a plot Macguffin in an RPG. They cast Jesse Eisenberg to play Jesse Eisnberg pretending to be a well known super-villain character. The darker take on the story still hasn't worked past the Nolanverse Batman films. The general cinema audiences still aren't very interested in the darker mood when Marvel has set a lighter tone for most of their films. Maybe the JL movie can find the right balance between the two. It's all another typical chapter in DC's cinema history.

I'm not saying I am automatically assuming this is a horrible movie from those points, though. I still have to read more reviews, but it just sounds like another case where I'd be sort of pissed that I wasted $12 and 3 hours to find out Warner Bros still hasn't learned any discipline while making these movies. I might try to watch it when it hits a streaming service, though I still have to catch up with every superhero movie from Iron Man 2 onward.

I guess one good thing I can take from this review is they didn't completely botch Wonder Woman's introduction. It's still a shame that they pushed this movie to the forefront instead of giving her and other DC heroes their own intro movies to help build up Justice League. (Also, here's to hoping the JL movie doesn't have some shitty subtitle.)

Hairless Mammoth:
So, almost everything we were worried about from this movie came true. DC/Warner Bros. is trying to catch up to Marvel. They are still attempting to do in 2-3 movies what Marvel did in 5-6 movies. Lois Lane is still being treated like a plot Macguffin in an RPG. They cast Jesse Eisenberg to play Jesse Eisnberg pretending to be a well known super-villain character. The darker take on the story still hasn't worked past the Nolanverse Batman films. The general cinema audiences still aren't very interested in the darker mood when Marvel has set a lighter tone for most of their films. Maybe the JL movie can find the right balance between the two. It's all another typical chapter in DC's cinema history.

I'm not saying I am automatically assuming this is a horrible movie from those points, though. I still have to read more reviews, but it just sounds like another case where I'd be sort of pissed that I wasted $12 and 3 hours to find out Warner Bros still hasn't learned any discipline while making these movies. I might try to watch it when it hits a streaming service, though I still have to catch up with every superhero movie from Iron Man 2 onward.

I guess one good thing I can take from this review is they didn't completely botch Wonder Woman's introduction. It's still a shame that they pushed this movie to the forefront instead of giving her and other DC heroes their own intro movies to help build up Justice League. (Also, here's to hoping the JL movie doesn't have some shitty subtitle.)

1. So it being called Dawn of Justice and Wonder Woman being introduced was not enough for you to realize that this is just a set up movie to Justice League? I feel sorry for the people that still thought this was going to be merely a Batman vs Superman slugfest.

2. Ok out of the criticsms this movie got, complaining about the title just confuses me? Dawn of Justice, what is wrong with that title? Does not sound that bad.

Well.

Shit.

I'm still probably going to have to see it, at some point, but perhaps I'll wait for the $3.50 ticket.

I'm sorry to see the film going down so hard, but I'm not exactly surprised. I think I started having misgivings when I got wind that Doomsday was in it. It's not unlike the inclusion of Bane in Batman and Robin as an all but throwaway character- his presence carries a strong implication that the powers that be don't get it. Doomsday (or Bane) is the guy associated with taking the plot-armored hero out- showing, after a lengthy establishment of the hero's overall competence and character development, that there are some threats that can even cause them to stumble. Despite Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice is very much an origin story, making it the wrong time to pull out such a big gun.

I hope Godot still gets her Wonder Woman movie.

'You can't do much acting behind a mask'

Gunnar Hansen and the guy who played V would like a word with you.

If it'd been cut into Batman v Superman as Act 1, and Doomsday (via Lex) in Act 2, maybe it would've worked? I dunno. Lex kind of pointlessly threading all through the film and engineering Batman to fight Supes when Batman already was going to fight him just wasted a lot of time on a pointless thread (as he ultimately let Doomsday out anyways). It became a jumbled mess of two characters half-jammed together despite being two separate characters.

The psychic dreams and stuff all really didn't serve it very well either. Set up your Darkseid sequel bait in a stinger or something rather then shoving it in the middle of an already overcrowded script.

Anyone could tell this would be shit from just looking at the stills.

Why on earth would Superman have such overdeveloped musculature? If anything it should be the opposite, because he's on a planet with much lower resistance than he's used to and your muscles don't have to work as hard.

Wow. 1.5 Stars.
I had no interest in this film, but 1.5 stars is way below what I was expecting it to recieve. Yikes.

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