Captain America - Civil War - Which Side Are You On?

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Captain America - Civil War - Which Side Are You On?

Captain America: Civil War is one of the most thematically rich and action-packed Marvel movies yet.

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I seem to be in the minority, at least from what I can tell, who actually liked the villain. Sure, not nearly as memorable personality wise, but for what the film was trying to do and how it goes down in the end I really liked him.

Action was definitely top notch, with many scenes just oozing with great stuff. I really felt the force from many of the fights, where it really felt like those hits did some damage. The ending I liked but I think that's going to split most people on this movie depending on their interpretation of it.

Super Cyborg:
I seem to be in the minority, at least from what I can tell, who actually liked the villain. Sure, not nearly as memorable personality wise, but for what the film was trying to do and how it goes down in the end I really liked him.

Action was definitely top notch, with many scenes just oozing with great stuff. I really felt the force from many of the fights, where it really felt like those hits did some damage. The ending I liked but I think that's going to split most people on this movie depending on their interpretation of it.

The plan of the villain was fine but my problem was wasting BARON ZEMO on it which seems to be a recurring problem of wasting the handful of good villains that Marvel has access to.

Don't get me started on the Russo's talking about cutting back on Thanos in the next two part Avenger films from an already brief 20 minutes tops (the interviews where they say this are on 'comic book resources' their search system is shit so good hunting).

Super Cyborg:
I seem to be in the minority, at least from what I can tell, who actually liked the villain. Sure, not nearly as memorable personality wise, but for what the film was trying to do and how it goes down in the end I really liked him.

Don't worry, I totally agree with you. Zemo was a fucking amazing villain in this.
No superpowers, no real connections, just one man driven by revenge for what happened to his family and to do that, he outsmarts Ex-HYDRA, The Avengers, The UN, EVERYONE.
Hell, a bit of re-framing and he could actually be a protag :P

OT: Loved the movie myself when I saw it the other week with my brother and a few friends.
I agree that the pacing was kinda janky early on in the movie but once Bucky is busted from that UN Prison, the movie REALLY picks up.
Hell, I knew in advance that Iron Man and Captain America were going to live but that last fight scene actually had me thinking Disney would really actually kill one of them off! :o
And I totally want to see that Black Panther movie, dude is like African Batman, what's not to love? XD

P-89 Scorpion:

The plan of the villain was fine but my problem was wasting BARON ZEMO on it which seems to be a recurring problem of wasting the handful of good villains that Marvel has access to.

Don't get me started on the Russo's talking about cutting back on Thanos in the next two part Avenger films from an already brief 20 minutes tops (the interviews where they say this are on 'comic book resources' their search system is shit so good hunting).

Perhaps this is an advantage for me having never read the comics and being actively invested in certain villains/characters when they come up. Since you know about this person from the comics you probably had more anticipation, where I just had what they did to go off of.

Diablo1099:
Don't worry, I totally agree with you. Zemo was a fucking amazing villain in this.
No superpowers, no real connections, just one man driven by revenge for what happened to his family and to do that, he outsmarts Ex-HYDRA, The Avengers, The UN, EVERYONE.
Hell, a bit of re-framing and he could actually be a protag :P

OT: Loved the movie myself when I saw it the other week with my brother and a few friends.
I agree that the pacing was kinda janky early on in the movie but once Bucky is busted from that UN Prison, the movie REALLY picks up.
Hell, I knew in advance that Iron Man and Captain America were going to live but that last fight scene actually had me thinking Disney would really actually kill one of them off! :o
And I totally want to see that Black Panther movie, dude is like African Batman, what's not to love? XD

I just like how it wasn't some mastermind plan. Just adding a little more fuel to the already explosive barrel, then set it off. Instead of him being a huge focus it was just part of the larger picture. Also.

Super Cyborg:

Man, I didn't know shit about that guy before this movie and now I really want to know more.
That's one of the best things these movies have done, sparked interest in some of the lesser characters.

Diablo1099:

Super Cyborg:

Man, I didn't know shit about that guy before this movie and now I really want to know more.
That's one of the best things these movies have done, sparked interest in some of the lesser characters.

Second quote was my favorite of all his. I'm definitely excited for his movie, which sucks because his movie is over two years from now. Spiderman was cool in the movie, but I'm less interested in him, so his should've waited for a bit longer. Then again, if the time means just making the movie better overall, then I can did that.

If his fighting style from this movie is anything to go off of, it's going to be fun to watch the action scenes in the movies. Agile and strong is quite deadly. Also that suit is just awesome looking.

Villains that pop well are a huge issue with the MCU by way of licensing. Guys like Norman Osborne (up until recently) and Doctor Doom have been walled off by other studios owning the IPs and they're SO essential IMO to the universe as villains who aren't just limited to their respective arch-enemies. Doom and Goblin are guys (using them as an example) who can be a credible global threat, whether its politically or otherwise. Doom has mystical powers as well that make him mesh well with folks like Doc Strange, plus his intellect allows him to be up on the grander scale of things cosmic.
They're villains who can be defeated and yet still pose problems later on because they can rebuild and come back even stronger and more evil.
In speaking of villains, there still is the loose plot thread of the real Mandarin going after Tony Stark. Its been hinted at since Iron Man's first film and heavily implied he exists in the post Iron Man 3 vignette. If they do it right, we could have another major level villain... but honestly I hope that Marvel gets more rights back to some of the better baddies. Still they are doing quite well taking b-list and c-list villains and making them seem pretty cool.

I saw Civil War last night, and I have to say;

I would be legitimately un-surprised if I heard that DC and WB execs committed suicide over the next few days because of how badly Marvel just shit on them again.

I agree with most of the review, except for

monotony of darker, more mature subject matter

I thought all the darker moments were excellently executed and in fact improved previous movies (such as movies that I didn't enjoy fully like AoU). Similar to the first scene of BvS flashing back to superman destroying metropolis, showing past mistakes and lives lost made the feud more well rounded. The jokes/laughs did help provide a nice range of tone/emotions compared tosome previous marvel movies which just kind of stayed in the middle action psudo comedy tone, but I would not call the darker/more mature parts monotonous.

Also I don't think the villain as a character was terrible, but the fact that he predicted everything that would happen perfectly was a bit too much. It was more bond villain or criminal mastermind knowing exactly what would happen at every step and it didn't really match his character in the movie.

Paragon Fury:
I saw Civil War last night, and I have to say;

I would be legitimately un-surprised if I heard that DC and WB execs committed suicide over the next few days because of how badly Marvel just shit on them again.

But I want my Justice League with Zack Snyder action and visuals.

I saw Civil War with some friends the other day and we all agreed that the only reason [ i ] anyone [ /i ] would go for team Cap was that he's as close to a central protagonist the movie has.

talker:
I saw Civil War with some friends the other day and we all agreed that the only reason [ i ] anyone [ /i ] would go for team Cap was that he's as close to a central protagonist the movie has.

Which is actually pretty ironic given how in the comics the morality of things was so laughably lopsided in Cap's favour that no one could take it seriously.

Paragon Fury:
I saw Civil War last night, and I have to say;

I would be legitimately un-surprised if I heard that DC and WB execs committed suicide over the next few days because of how badly Marvel just shit on them again.

I think they realized they need something to change, Affleck just got promoted to Executive Producer. He's a guy I could see giving DC's IPs proper love and care. However it might be too little too late. They may salvage it but it'll never be comparable to MCU's success.

If people could stop taking potshots at BvS any day now, that'd be great, thanks.

Enjoyed the movie, but it's telling that I can barely remember anything pre-airport scene. Not that the prior stuff was bad, it's just the airport fight completely eclipses the rest of the movie. While most of the film takes on a serious thriller tone similar to Winter Soldier, that particular fight is full on Avengers-level over-indulgent spectacle. It doesn't help that Ant Man and Spider Man completely walk away with it despite having the least amount of investment in the conflict. And the final, final battle was amazingly tense.

It's a shame the movie holds off until the very end to reveal the villain's motivations, since it's a very well done monologue and elevates him to the top tier of Marvel villains (not that's saying much; it's really just him, Loki & Fisk).

talker:
I saw Civil War with some friends the other day and we all agreed that the only reason [ i ] anyone [ /i ] would go for team Cap was that he's as close to a central protagonist the movie has.

They must have been telling his side horribly then. Giving any government that much power is just asking for tyranny.

Super Cyborg:
I seem to be in the minority, at least from what I can tell, who actually liked the villain. Sure, not nearly as memorable personality wise, but for what the film was trying to do and how it goes down in the end I really liked him.

I agree.

IOwnTheSpire:
If people could stop taking potshots at BvS any day now, that'd be great, thanks.

That target's going to be on the range for years my friend, years and years.

Diablo1099:

Super Cyborg:
I seem to be in the minority, at least from what I can tell, who actually liked the villain. Sure, not nearly as memorable personality wise, but for what the film was trying to do and how it goes down in the end I really liked him.

Don't worry, I totally agree with you. Zemo was a fucking amazing villain in this.
No superpowers, no real connections, just one man driven by revenge for what happened to his family and to do that, he outsmarts Ex-HYDRA, The Avengers, The UN, EVERYONE.
Hell, a bit of re-framing and he could actually be a protag :P

OT: Loved the movie myself when I saw it the other week with my brother and a few friends.
I agree that the pacing was kinda janky early on in the movie but once Bucky is busted from that UN Prison, the movie REALLY picks up.
Hell, I knew in advance that Iron Man and Captain America were going to live but that last fight scene actually had me thinking Disney would really actually kill one of them off! :o
And I totally want to see that Black Panther movie, dude is like African Batman, what's not to love? XD

personally i think zemo is both so mentally screwed up that for all we know he may decide to wear purple battle armor next time we se him. also baron means lord of a castle. maybe he will find more hydra facilities from the war to use against the avengers

Imperioratorex Caprae:
Still they are doing quite well taking b-list and c-list villains and making them seem pretty cool.

I'm quietly hoping that Red Skull will make a return some day. Partly because it's Hugo Weaving, and also because the possibility of a Red Skull with cosmic powers is too much fun to ignore.

After all, we didn't technically see him die...

One of the funniest tropes to me in comic books and by extension, movies, is this annoying need to prove how equal most heroes are, despite all evidence to the contrary. The "Goku v. Superman" debate made endless, except turned even more pointless by making it less "Goku v. Superman" and having it be "Krillin v. Superman" or "Hawkeye v. Goku".

Civil War seemed especially egregious of this based on the trailers. While I haven't seen the movie yet, I will go off the trailer and what the other movies have established.

Team Iron Man consists of no less than three nigh indestructible robots/robot-armored heroes with the capacity for flight and a combined arsenal to rival most battleships. And one of these heroes is so pure and noble, that he alone is the only other hero worthy of wielding Mjolnir. Another is equipped with claws that can actually rend through Cap's vibranium shield. And another has superhuman reflexes, strength, and agility beyond even Captain and Bucky with the ability to bind and contain people. Three of these heroes are supposed to have a genius intellect, and a fourth is a goddamn super computer made "flesh". Oh, and a master assassin to round it all out.

Meanwhile, on Cap's side, we have two guys who are strong and fast. Not as strong and fast as Spiderman, but still. Then there's bow and arrow guy and hang glider man, who'll surely come in handy against the flying juggernauts. The only two with legitimate powers, a guy who can shrink and increase his strength and a woman with non-descript magic powers, are stuck on the ground, unless ants can now survive flamethrowers and lasers and propulsion blasts. And even Cap's strongest ally, Scarlet Witch, got her ass kicked by freaking Hawkeye of all people. Not to mention, Captain's side is almost exclusively ex-criminals and the less than brilliant of the Marvel world.

Even if they were genius, what hope do they have? To recap, the defensive capabilities of Iron Man's side include 3 people with almost invulnerable armor, a suit made out of Captain America's shield materials, and one of the most agile heroes in the Marvelverse. Their offensive capabilities include lasers, cannons, rockets, daggers, claws, webbing, and good ole fashioned metal fists. To counter all that, Captain America's side has, ahem, a shield that only covers part of one person's torso (seriously more people should just shoot his legs) and Winter Soldier's metal arm. Their offense includes bullets, gloved fists, and *gasp* arrows, none of which are dangerous to the 4 heroes sporting serious armor. Scarlet Witch is doing some seriously heavy lifting on this team based on whatever the hell the writer's decide her powers will be for this movie.

TL;DR: Unless Hawkeye's got another USB arrow he can shoot up Iron Man's ass, it'll probably be the funniest thing in the movie to see how they justify how Team America even has a chance against Team Stark.

(seriously more people should just shoot his legs)

Watch the movie and you'll be pleasantly surprised on that front

fix-the-spade:

IOwnTheSpire:
If people could stop taking potshots at BvS any day now, that'd be great, thanks.

That target's going to be on the range for years my friend, years and years.

I just hate the fact that this movie is gonna be #1 on everone's "Worst movie of 2016" list even though so far there are going to be even worse movies than this in the coming months (Star Trek Beyond and Ghostbusters)

I just hate that WB is gonna turn Suicide Squad into another Guardians of the Galaxy with the added reshoots for more humor. I just hope its only on Harley and Joker.

I'm going to see the movie for sure, but here's what I think makes it stand over BvS

- Marvel gave superheroes their own movies, enough build up time so we could jump right into this movie.
- Marvel gave each superhero real agendas and why they're fighting instead of 'reasons'.
- Both superheroes are at equal power levels while Superman honestly would beat Batman anyday if he wanted to kill.
- Marvel doesn't allow dark & edgy themes get too dark & edgy in their movies.
- Marvel knows how to write a solid script.
- There's gray areas in this movie, while BvS clearly has a black & white approach to things.

Seriously I could go on, but after seeing why BvS failed, it's not hard to top that (but Captain America: Civil War was going to be awesome regardless of how BvS did.)

I'm quietly hoping that Red Skull will make a return some day. Partly because it's Hugo Weaving, and also because the possibility of a Red Skull with cosmic powers is too much fun to ignore.

After all, we didn't technically see him die...

No but what exactly is he returning too? Hydra is all but dead we saw the last of their core facilities getting taken out in the last episode of Agents Of Shield and their last leader was killed by Daisy and whatever is left of it i.e thier cash is under the control of Grant Ward (The Inhuman The HIVE) and the rest of his Inhuman buddies. I doubt Hyrda will be making a return more likely the Inhumans will take the place of Hydra as a bigger more focused enemy, would also tie in with the Inhumans movie coming in 2018.

Even if they were genius, what hope do they have? To recap, the defensive capabilities of Iron Man's side include 3 people with almost invulnerable armor, a suit made out of Captain America's shield materials, and one of the most agile heroes in the Marvelverse. Their offensive capabilities include lasers, cannons, rockets, daggers, claws, webbing, and good ole fashioned metal fists. To counter all that, Captain America's side has, ahem, a shield that only covers part of one person's torso (seriously more people should just shoot his legs) and Winter Soldier's metal arm. Their offense includes bullets, gloved fists, and *gasp* arrows, none of which are dangerous to the 4 heroes sporting serious armor. Scarlet Witch is doing some seriously heavy lifting on this team based on whatever the hell the writer's decide her powers will be for this movie.

fix-the-spade:

Imperioratorex Caprae:
Still they are doing quite well taking b-list and c-list villains and making them seem pretty cool.

I'm quietly hoping that Red Skull will make a return some day. Partly because it's Hugo Weaving, and also because the possibility of a Red Skull with cosmic powers is too much fun to ignore.

After all, we didn't technically see him die...

Its definitely a plot thread that was left fairly open. I mean more or less Loki fell out in much the same way during Thor, and he came back. Red Skull is one of those villains who shouldn't be killed off like that. Keep him under wraps and let him show up when least expected.

IOwnTheSpire:
If people could stop taking potshots at BvS any day now, that'd be great, thanks.

Hello, Mr. Snyder, how are you? Let's be frank here: Potshots always get taken, one way or another. If a movie brings about the displeasure of most of its audience, then far more potshots will be taken.

Also, in Civil War, the antagonist didn't mix his DNA with last movie's antagonist because 'reasons'...

Zontar:

talker:
I saw Civil War with some friends the other day and we all agreed that the only reason [ i ] anyone [ /i ] would go for team Cap was that he's as close to a central protagonist the movie has.

Which is actually pretty ironic given how in the comics the morality of things was so laughably lopsided in Cap's favour that no one could take it seriously.

Until the end, when Cap realized he'd proven the other side's argument for them as the collateral damage of both sides' battle caused a city to burn around them and surrenders out of guilt. But sure, up until that point it did seem lopsided as all hell.

I enjoyed the movie quite a bit, especially seeing all the various characters we've come to know from across all of these movies having their personal struggles with having to fight their comrades, so it was a lot of fun to see all the various players come together and pull out all kinds of tricks against one another. Oddly, I felt like Vision and Scarlet Witch were pretty under-shown in the battle in favor of Spidey getting his turn at basically everyone.

The newcomers, Spider-Man and Black Panther, were honestly some of the more interesting parts of the movie for me, although for different reasons. I liked how they glossed over Spider-Man's backstory because who in the goddamn hell doesn't know Marvel's most marketable child's backstory at this point, and I liked how Black Panther got some pretty good character development before his own movie even came out. I'm definitely looking forward to both heroes' respective flicks.

Another point in Cap 3's favor; the war didn't end because Cap and Iron Man's mothers had the same name.

Caramel Frappe:
I'm going to see the movie for sure, but here's what I think makes it stand over BvS

- Marvel gave superheroes their own movies, enough build up time so we could jump right into this movie.
- Marvel gave each superhero real agendas and why they're fighting instead of 'reasons'.
- Both superheroes are at equal power levels while Superman honestly would beat Batman anyday if he wanted to kill.
- Marvel doesn't allow dark & edgy themes get too dark & edgy in their movies.
- Marvel knows how to write a solid script.
- There's gray areas in this movie, while BvS clearly has a black & white approach to things.

Seriously I could go on, but after seeing why BvS failed, it's not hard to top that (but Captain America: Civil War was going to be awesome regardless of how BvS did.)

1.No commment
2.Batman thinks Superman is dangerous after the events of Man of Steel
3. Batman had the body armor and kryptonite gas pellets.
4. Marvel is never Dark and Edgy. And dark and edgy makes for better stories anyway, I mean look at Game of Thrones and Watchmen.
5. Debateable.
6. Only in this one movie, expect that grey area to vanish in the later movies. And Man of Steel had the grey area of Zod's motivations.:

2.Batman thinks Superman is dangerous after the events of Man of Steel

and goes in to an all out must kill Superman decision based on stupid reasons and then reinforced by dreams. Seriously his motivations are beyond dumb, he goes from nought to kill without at any point ever even trying or showing that he had tried to understand what Superman was doing during that fight.

Superman was fighting a guy who had just said he would happily kill EVERY human just to punish Superman, he had just blown up the massive planet killing machine but because some buildings got blown up that's reason enough for Batman to want to take Superman down?

The final fight scene in BvsS is almost the same as MOS, big bad guy wants to kill stuff and blow shit up, good guys fight him and lots of stuff gets blown up... but because Superman was fighting beside Batman it's all cool suddenly...

3. Batman had the body armor and kryptonite gas pellets.

Right at the start of that fight Sups lands, gets attacked by Batman and his supersonic projectors (by the way nice steal from Incredible Hulk with that one.) and his auto turrets Superman takes it and instead of just standing his ground and telling Batman why he is there he decides to give batman a bit of slap before telling him why he is there?

4. Marvel is never Dark and Edgy. And dark and edgy makes for better stories anyway, I mean look at Game of Thrones and Watchmen.

Yeah then you have Batman Vs Superman which kind of proves that Dark and Edgy doesn't always make for a better story

6. Only in this one movie, expect that grey area to vanish in the later movies. And Man of Steel had the grey area of Zod's motivations.

How was his motivation grey, he flat out tells you that he wants to rebuild Krypton on Earth and when that fails he turns in to generic I will kill everyone bad dude, his motivations weren't grey at all at no point did he question what he was doing, consider alternatives see anyone elses side or show any conflict on what he was doing, he had a plan and went at it. He was so obvious in what he was doing the movie actually has Superman say that he didn't trust him after hearing his initial Earth broadcast.

irishda:

And one of these heroes is so pure and noble, that he alone is the only other hero worthy of wielding Mjolnir.

Actually, Mjolnir has a history of being picked up by androids. Unworthiness isnt a problem for them. I guess magic and science don't mix.

TL;DR: Unless Hawkeye's got another USB arrow he can shoot up Iron Man's ass, it'll probably be the funniest thing in the movie to see how they justify how Team America even has a chance against Team Stark.

Have you watched the movie, because

Laughing Man:

How was his motivation grey, he flat out tells you that he wants to rebuild Krypton on Earth and when that fails he turns in to generic I will kill everyone bad dude, his motivations weren't grey at all at no point did he question what he was doing, consider alternatives see anyone elses side or show any conflict on what he was doing, he had a plan and went at it. He was so obvious in what he was doing the movie actually has Superman say that he didn't trust him after hearing his initial Earth broadcast.

The best moment of the HISHE series on YouTube was when Loki pointed out that Zod should have just terraformed Mars.

Marvel kind of amazes me that they can do lighter character drama with their cast. Something DC really can't. This is "we bear the mental scars of life experience except our views on Kantian ethics made us make different decisions." compared to "arglblargl I'ma murder people"

And they made sure each team had someone who isn't grim-lord, lord of grimness so that the proceedings never lose their humanity. The resolution isn't

Samtemdo8:

But I want my Justice League with Zack Snyder action and visuals.

We can talk about Snyder visuals when he tells post to stop smearing every frame with the 300 filter

MCerberus:
Marvel kind of amazes me that they can do lighter character drama with their cast. Something DC really can't. This is "we bear the mental scars of life experience except our views on Kantian ethics made us make different decisions." compared to "arglblargl I'ma murder people"

And they made sure each team had someone who isn't grim-lord, lord of grimness so that the proceedings never lose their humanity. The resolution isn't

Samtemdo8:

But I want my Justice League with Zack Snyder action and visuals.

We can talk about Snyder visuals when he tells post to stop smearing every frame with the 300 filter

Isn't the 300 filter the orange color palette?

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