Upgradable Consoles are Just PCs for Peasants

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Upgradable Consoles are Just PCs for Peasants

The idea of upgrading a console sounds good at first, but the reality is that it might hurt consoles more than it will help.

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What they haven't told you yet is that when you go buy a brand new PS4k and you take it home, when you open the box....there will be a laptop inside.

I'll say the exact same thing you did except less professionally

The second Upgradable Consoles become the norm is the second I...*Sigh.....join the PC crowd

I feel dirty just saying that but why in the hell would I want all of the negatives that PCs have but none of the positives?

Pointless machines, but if those companies have a problem of surplus money then it's their right to piss it up the nearest wall.

tippy2k2:
I'll say the exact same thing you did except less professionally

The second Upgradable Consoles become the norm is the second I...*Sigh.....join the PC crowd

I feel dirty just saying that but why in the hell would I want all of the negatives that PCs have but none of the positives?

Don't feel dirty Tippy, we'll take good care of you over at Master Race HQ.

OT: Upgradable consoles is a terrible idea, it's, as stated above, the worst aspects of PC bleeding in with none of the benefits (cheaper games, massive backwards compatibility, versatility in HID's, versatility in upgrade paths, etc)

tippy2k2:
The second Upgradable Consoles become the norm is the second I...*Sigh.....join the PC crowd

Just get on with it already man, we have cookies and keyboards and Doom WADS.

On a more serious note, Casual Shenanigans have an ongoing series about a PC they built for $350 called The Potato Masher and how it stacks up against PS4/Xbone games.

The most recent video was on Doom and it highlights the relative drop in the cost of PC gaming in the last ten years. Now is the time!

If they don't include video options in console games you either won't be getting the most for your money, or have subpar performance because you aren't running a high end console.

It's going to happen sadly...many new laptops come with a USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 port and a processor fast enough to keep up with a desktop GPU. Attach an external GPU via the Thunderbolt port, and you've got a gaming machine that is just as portable as a console and likely more powerful. I am thinking that next gen consoles will be upgradable so that they won't be made redundant by the laptops that nearly everybody owns for school or work.

Okay.
....
I'm just stumped on why there is so much drama between the stereotypical "Politically Correct" Master Race & everyone else who doesn't have enough urge to download sex mods for Skyrim.

For me It's either going to kill off the console market or make me consider buying new PCs before they go the way of XP.

Lets not forget that no one who owns a PS4 really likes the idea renting PS3 games through PS Now. So upgradable consoles would probably force plenty of companies away from unnecessary future HD remakes.

Even if the consoles were to somehow become PCs I doubt the consoles would somehow have the same problems seen with cheating like in Dark Souls Sequels. Or bad ports from Consoles to PCs by 3rd Party Companies.

Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.

I'll leave that to the

Anywho, the article makes sense.

Jacked Assassin:
Even if the consoles were to somehow become PCs I doubt the consoles would somehow have the same problems seen with cheating like in Dark Souls Sequels.

Maybe not, but they're fighting cheaters in all the wrong ways. At least Microsoft is. They completely locked all players out of the ability to maintain their own save files. You can't move them to an external drive, and you cant access your cloud saves or choose when to move files back and forth. All you get is an inaccessible file on your console's hard drive that automatically syncs to the cloud on a schedule that you can't control.

The official excuse for this boneheaded decision is that it's "convenient" to have automatic cloud backup. What it is, however, is Microsoft branding every one of its customers as PvP cheaters, and it's popular on Xbox forums to accuse people who want save-file access of being such. Never mind the fact that save files can go corrupt because games glitch, and the automatic cloud backup does nothing except ensure that you have TWO corrupt save files and no good copy to fall back on. For an overwhelming number of us, desiring save file access has nothing at all to do with cheating and everything to do with good saving habits.

And in the spirit of complete transparency, I'm bitter about this because I lost 40 hours of Borderlands 2 progress a month ago when the game didn't save my profile data correctly and that file got corrupted as a result. What happened next? Well, the automatic cloud backup overwrote the good copy of my profile save, and I had no recourse. Lost all of my customizations on every single character, all of my vehicle skins, and approximately 130 Golden Keys. If I had a manual backup save (which I maintain religiously for all of my digital data on every device I own) I could have restored that data by reverting to a good copy of the file. Basically, I got punished for the actions of real cheaters because that's how Microsoft views all of us.

For the record, I intensely dislike competitive multiplayer and have never played CoD or any similar title. In games with forced multiplayer mechanics, I do what I can to avoid them. I only go human in Dark Souls when I want to help others in co-op, and that's because I don't want people invading my game while I'm running around doing my own thing. In Dying Light, I disabled all invasions except by people on my friends list. I'd give more examples but this post is already long enough. ;)

The only thing this console generation has done is convince me to never buy another console. If upgrades become a thing and the systems become more restrictive, then count me out.

------------------

Also, what's with the insulting title of this article? Some of us don't have the money for a PC right now, and calling us peasants is just more elitist bullshit from the PC crowd that has done nothing but sour my opinions of the PC gaming crowd. I agree 100% with the content of the article and the arguments therein, and nothing in the article itself was at all condescending. So was the title really necessary?

Upgradable consoles... Are we talking "Mega Drive/Genesis" style, "Nintendo 64/Gamecube" style or "Actual PC" style.
Because only one of those is decent as a concept, and even then not really comparable to what it's imitating. Unless parts become interchangable between consoles and PCs. By which point, you need to decide which is more worth the money [which will usually be the PC, because there's always something to replace or upgrade].

Higgs303:
external GPU

Whoa, wait. Those are actual things? How? Why?

I'll believe a PC can be just as powerful as a console at the same price point as soon as someone can price one out without using ultra-discounted used parts or $10 operating systems they got from a guy selling bootlegged Windows codes on Reddit.

Upgrades, updates, install times, all these things are slowly defeating the purpose of consoles am I right?

Well... consoles are outdated. The concept should've died out, but the exclusives and services are holding everyone and everything back.
People are becoming increasingly tech-savvy, we're reaching a point where there's no reason they shouldn't be able to handle a PC connected to their TV. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a full case or one with a full OS, they could be sold in packages with or without the option to upgrade and it'd not only be a cheaper solution to make, but to buy as well.

Ten Foot Bunny:

Also, what's with the insulting title of this article? Some of us don't have the money for a PC right now, and calling us peasants is just more elitist bullshit from the PC crowd that has done nothing but sour my opinions of the PC gaming crowd. I agree 100% with the content of the article and the arguments therein, and nothing in the article itself was at all condescending. So was the title really necessary?

Hehe, it's a running gag. The reason it keeps going is because people keep getting offended by it, with the added "bonus" of confirming the prejudice of the few who truly believe console owners are actual peasants.
I doubt it's intended for offense, it's just an edgy clickbait title that gives hits (which a couple of editorials have proven lately).

Consoles are simple, easy to buy and be done with it. Making them upgradable does indeed make them "PC's for peasants", when you take into consideration how many families buy them for their kids, with no interest in maintaining or having to deal with the machine at all (personally though, I think they should be thrown in the deep end and just have to deal with owner responsibility).
Take it personally or don't, but you're not a peasant in relation to this topic.

If/when they start doing this I will have officially stopped caring about any games released for consoles. If I can't play a game I really want because I don't have the latest tacked on piece of crap they're basically forcing me to buy then what's the point?

I bought into the console market precisely because I was sick and tired of not being able to play the latest PC releases while I saved up enough money to upgrade my rig. The endless 'save, save, save, upgrade, save, save, save, upgrade' wore me down to the point I just bought a PS2 and had done with it. If Sony and Microsoft are trading the biggest strength of consoles for the biggest weakness of PCs then consoles are gonna ditch, and badly.

Article is right on the money.

Honestly, I think this will be just like 3D TVs, it is a gimmick that will quickly die. Though, I am a bit annoyed at the title of this article though, I mean console gamers get enough of this crap in every social media site. I know that the whole PC Master Race was coined ironically, but by the gods you would think it was a new commandment by the way PC gamers bang on about it.

And is referring to people who don't want to have to have their PC specs memorized when buying games, to figure out IF their PC can run it, as peasants, really necessary?

Rebel_Raven:
Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.

I'll leave that to the

Anywho, the article makes sense.

Problem is, that I don't think you're going to have long until, as a console owner, the "optional" upgrade very quicky becomes a required upgrade...

Oh, I'm sure that initially sony's "games will be made for PS4 1st with Neo enhancements 2nd" will hold true. Same for when they do and nail down the Xbox1 upgrade as well.

And theennnn.... the game developers will be "yeah, no, this game WILL need a Neo only, cause we can't DO this game with the power the PS4 provides." and Sony will just go "well, we tried purchasers and loyal fans.... now go buy a neo."

Unless they go the full PC route of giving console owners a full 100% employed settings screen to downgrade resolution etc... but then, buy a PC? Cause... yeah...

Ten Foot Bunny:

Also, what's with the insulting title of this article? Some of us don't have the money for a PC right now, and calling us peasants is just more elitist bullshit from the PC crowd that has done nothing but sour my opinions of the PC gaming crowd. I agree 100% with the content of the article and the arguments therein, and nothing in the article itself was at all condescending. So was the title really necessary?

To be fair, this site is where that term was created; so they'll probably keep using it as long as it's a popular joke.

Rebel_Raven:
Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.

Totally. Instead, you can buy a system that's years into obsolescence upon release, doesn't allow mods or personalization, has a fee for multiplayer, and you have to be stuck with for however long the manufacturer decides to keep the current gen going as technology pushes further and further forward. Don't worry though, you'll never have to consider whether or not you can run the game at max settings. You get one option, low-medium at whatever resolution and fps the developer has decided for you.

That is the point of a PC. You don't have to be held hostage by whatever decisions Microsoft or Sony think is best for you. No one asked for these updated consoles, it just screws over customers who have already bought one.

And I admit, I'm playing devil's advocate a little. I'm sure your statement above was tongue in cheek (I hope. Consoles are a great option for a lot of people who can't afford the (marginally) higher cost of a PC or don't have the interest or desire to make that their primary platform. I understand that, but it does make me a little smug when I see console manufacturers basically turning their products into mini-PCs. You could just skip the BS and buy a PC and be done with it at this point.

Also, I would love to finally see what this 4k PS4 is all about. Unless they got the Flash to run into the future and bring them back GPUs that can support 4k resolution reliably, that are affordable, there's no way they mean games at 4k unless these consoles are coming with an extreme price premium. Maybe video playback only?

Edit: There seems to be this opinion that to be able to compare your hardware to the game requirements is this complicated and technical art in which you need to simultaneously do calculus and read the tea leaves for signs from the PC gods. If you can remember what Graphics card, processor, and how much RAM you have, you're essentially done. Plus, system requirements are usually VAST. Minimum is typically a card from years and years ago and recommended might be from a few years ago to the most recent offerings. PC gaming has become so accessible and easy. If you build a PC with a new-ish GPU and processor you won't have to check system requirements. You PC will play whatever it is you want to play. The only reason to get anal and uppity about it is if you need to be that guy with top end hardware running 3 1440p monitors at 100+ fps. Actually, even then you won't have to worry about it because you know your hardware is top of the line. SO unless you build a PC and leave the GPU in there for 10 years, you're good.

There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

$200 seems pretty steep. Although we could be on completely different sides of the world for all I know (Im in AUS).
My family still seems overly impressed in my ability to google computer problems.

Needs a better title for the article, since as it stands, it sounds ike this article isn't actually pro-console players.

This whole thing shows a problem I have noticed this current gen...consoles want to suck. I -was- one of the staunchest console defenders, but this gen has forgone virtually every advantage consoles had over PC. Pop in and play? Gone. A focus on gaming? Gone. Now they want to take away one of the last vestiges of consoles?

I really hope my mobile apocalypse I fear Nintendo is going is wrong, cause Nintendo is the only company making game consoles that still are consoles. My Wii U games still pop in and play, and its focused on gaming. Hell, most non-gaming features on Wii U have overtime been weeded out.

I have become more and more a PC gamer now. Most PC games use controllers now if I want them, and most games seem to download faster than console. Really all that is left on console is easier multiplayer, but who is to say that wont go out the window at some point too as consoles try to become more garbage.

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

That's not what "Gatekeeping" is, that's actually you genuinely lacking the expertise to fix something, and needing someone who does.

Gatekeeping would be someone saying, "Because of that, you're not really a PC gamer."

gianttalkingpickle:

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

$200 seems pretty steep. Although we could be on completely different sides of the world for all I know (Im in AUS).
My family still seems overly impressed in my ability to google computer problems.

US. And $200 is steep. Most people tell me he's just trying to con me cause I'm not computer literate.

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

In my personal case it's rather simple and I'm sure most if not everyone who knows at least a litte about pcs could tell you something similar. It is incredibly annoying to help others with their pcs. When you know a little about pcs, people will come to you and ask you to fix your pc. While that isn't that bad, in many cases the problems start with the user not reading simple error messages or you get something like a very old pc with the request to make it faster. Another thing I experienced a few times is that I fixed a pc, gave the owner some simple instructions to prevent the problems. Months later I get the pc again with the same problem and the owner ignored the instructions.
For example I had to fix my cousins pc several times when it was riddled with malware and viruses to the point that the pc wouldn't even start anymore. I told him every time to install an antivirus software, keep it updated and scan the pc on occasion, sometimes I installed free software that works well enough. However every time he asked me for help the software was either missing or not updated in months. After the last time I told him, that I wouldn't do it for free again if the pc is missing an updated antivirus software.

That is my personal reason why I'm careful about offering my help for free, outside of close friends.

This cracked article probably explains it better than I do.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-guy-whos-fixing-your-computer-hates-you/

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

I just took a computer to a repair shop and they diagnosed it for free >_>

Mobo problem so they can't fix it but didn't charge...

VoidWanderer:
And is referring to people who don't want to have to have their PC specs memorized when buying games, to figure out IF their PC can run it, as peasants, really necessary?

When the typical person read on the box

"NVIDIA GTX 660 2GB / AMD HD 7870 2GB or better"

... they put it right back on the shelf and move on.

What does that even mean? What is better than those? What is worse that those?

The fact that Nvidia and AMD pretty much number their parts almost randomly doesn't help, e.g. Is a R9 270 better than 7870?

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

I tried asking about computer parts and shit on a computer forum once. No one was willing to explain anything. They just keep asking me for my price range ...

I'm not exactly computer illiterate, it's just that I haven't kept up with hardware news due to my life going down the drain the last decade or so.

Wanted to catch up ... got treated like a child that can't possibly understand "adult things" ... Great community.

KaraFang:

Rebel_Raven:
Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.

I'll leave that to the

Anywho, the article makes sense.

Problem is, that I don't think you're going to have long until, as a console owner, the "optional" upgrade very quicky becomes a required upgrade...

Oh, I'm sure that initially sony's "games will be made for PS4 1st with Neo enhancements 2nd" will hold true. Same for when they do and nail down the Xbox1 upgrade as well.

And theennnn.... the game developers will be "yeah, no, this game WILL need a Neo only, cause we can't DO this game with the power the PS4 provides." and Sony will just go "well, we tried purchasers and loyal fans.... now go buy a neo."

Unless they go the full PC route of giving console owners a full 100% employed settings screen to downgrade resolution etc... but then, buy a PC? Cause... yeah...

It probably won't end up like the PC market. It will more likely become like the iPhone market.

Each game will be quite clear about the Playstation they support.

Unlike PC you don't have to know any of the tech jargon. Playstations like iPhones will be number according to their "power level" where bigger is better.

Ir's going to be weird, whatever happens. Putting aside the customer side for a moment: what happens when the consoles start dividing their own markets into haves and have-nots? From a business standpoint, the big advantage of releasing software to consoles was the vast number of potential customers- many of whom were pretty comfortable with not having to do much more than unpack the box, charge the controllers, and find an unoccupied HDMI port on their televisions. (No offense intended- there's nothing wrong with that!)

Put one way, the consoles risk facing a version of the problem that undermined the Wii-U: millions of consumers saying "I already have 'X'; why exactly do I need 'X+1'?" And when it turns out that the software does, indeed, need 'X+1'- not just to load the spiffier textures or avoid having to go to a loading screen a few extra times, but to run at all- it seems likely that for many, the result will be confusion, and then anger. I can't claim to speak for everyone, of course, but personally I get irritated when someone who is providing me goods or services that are strictly optional demands that I repeatedly demonstrate my loyalty, especially when that loyalty has to be demonstrated in the form of cash.

Ultimately, this seems like a somewhat shady work-around for a problem that is not technical so much as psychological and economic: Sony and Microsoft couldn't bring consoles to market that were marked improvements over the last generation at the sub-$500 mark that customers expected.

...So, they didn't. Instead, we get Uncharted 4 running at 30fps, and The Order: 1886 shaving the edges off of its own screen, and so on.

And now it seems likely that at least one of them is going to run with the idea that, say, a $700 purchase is an unsurpassable hurdle, but a $500 purchase followed by a $200 purchase somehow is not.

They might even be right; people are weird that way. But it could still blow up in their faces.

Why isn't anyone talking about the Sega CD 32X debacle? Console add-ons never take off because that is too much work for consoles. You split up the user base to take advantage of the latest tech and instead of having access to a potential 100% of the console you end up with just 10-15%.

Sega 32x
Sega CD
PS2 modem (they later released a PS2 with a modem built in but no hard drive option)
Xbox 360 Kinect (they attempted to remedy this with XB1)
Any Nintendo add-on. They have killed every single one in a matter of months after release in Japan and they never left the island.

To tell console users that you need add-ons to keep your console relevant, they don't bite. The only way for them to accept it is to release a new model with it built in. But then consumers know it isn't necessary.

While I can see these new editions of the current consoles being optimized for VR, I don't see them releasing games "Only on PS4 Neo" The best case scenario I can forsee is a "Better on PS4Neo/Xbox1.5"

MythicMatt:

Higgs303:
external GPU

Whoa, wait. Those are actual things? How? Why?

Yea, nothing is on the market yet, but every major laptop manufacturer seems to have recently presented an external GPU enclosure (really just a box with a PCIe lane and powers supply). Laptop users will be able to buy any desktop graphics card for the enclosure and plug it into their laptop via the Thunderbird port. If this takes off and becomes popular, consoles may need to become upgradable in order to compete.

deadish:

VoidWanderer:
And is referring to people who don't want to have to have their PC specs memorized when buying games, to figure out IF their PC can run it, as peasants, really necessary?

When the typical person read on the box

"NVIDIA GTX 660 2GB / AMD HD 7870 2GB or better"

... they put it right back on the shelf and move on.

What does that even mean? What is better than those? What is worse that those?

The fact that Nvidia and AMD pretty much number their parts almost randomly doesn't help, e.g. Is a R9 270 better than 7870?

well everyone knows that the letter-number combo always means something is elite. Cars do it, planes do it, I think shoes do it so obviously the R9.

What will really confuse people is finding out that the GTX 680 is stronger than the GTX 750.

deadish:

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

I tried asking about computer parts and shit on a computer forum once. No one was willing to explain anything. They just keep asking me for my price range ...

I'm not exactly computer illiterate, it's just that I haven't kept up with hardware news due to my life going down the drain the last decade or so.

Wanted to catch up ... got treated like a child that can't possibly understand "adult things" ... Great community.

What they tend to do is get the price range and then explain why it is the best option for that price range. Also it is safer to assume the person asking knows nothing since the majority of people asking questions don't know. Doing research isn't hard considering the number of youtubers that regularly release videos regarding the latest in tech. Despite what people think, they don't actually sit on the internet all day long waiting for the chance to showcase their computer knowledge. It isn't that they think you won't understand, it is just easier that way for them.

The main issue is that there's a loop that never ends well: customers don't want to get the upgrade because the software makers don't support it, and the software makers don't support it because the customers don't want to get the upgrade. If even the merest suggestion that it's unnecessary/optional can sink the Wii U, which isn't actually a peripheral, much less every actual peripheral made for a console machine, then there's no market for it; at least, until somebody actually succeeds in a sustainable model. It would most likely entail expensive amounts of industry strongarming.

Neonsilver:

RaikuFA:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.

In my personal case it's rather simple and I'm sure most if not everyone who knows at least a litte about pcs could tell you something similar. It is incredibly annoying to help others with their pcs. When you know a little about pcs, people will come to you and ask you to fix your pc. While that isn't that bad, in many cases the problems start with the user not reading simple error messages or you get something like a very old pc with the request to make it faster. Another thing I experienced a few times is that I fixed a pc, gave the owner some simple instructions to prevent the problems. Months later I get the pc again with the same problem and the owner ignored the instructions.
For example I had to fix my cousins pc several times when it was riddled with malware and viruses to the point that the pc wouldn't even start anymore. I told him every time to install an antivirus software, keep it updated and scan the pc on occasion, sometimes I installed free software that works well enough. However every time he asked me for help the software was either missing or not updated in months. After the last time I told him, that I wouldn't do it for free again if the pc is missing an updated antivirus software.

That is my personal reason why I'm careful about offering my help for free, outside of close friends.

This cracked article probably explains it better than I do.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-guy-whos-fixing-your-computer-hates-you/

Considering the guy I went to had a business that was fixing PC's, I think it's safe to say he wasn't doing it for free. But $200 for just a diagnostic is outrageous.

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