Zero Punctuation: Mafia 3

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Mafia 3

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Mafia 3.

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Can't wait for the gender politics vultures to start circling next week when this is on YouTube.

And I thought the first week of November was going to suck for Americans!

It's like we've gotten to the point where people are now badly copying Ubisoft open world games rather than the usual other way around.

Onliuge:
Can't wait for the gender politics vultures to start circling next week when this is on YouTube.

And I thought the first week of November was going to suck for Americans!

Not to be 'that guy' but seriously, what does Gender Politics have to do with any of this? Racial politics, perhaps, but its a game set in a racist era. It'd be like complaining about anti-Semitic tones in a game set in a Nazi Germany death camp.

I guess next week Battlefield 1 vs. Infinite Warfare I suppose.

Funny Yahtzee would figure it would end the drought with a bang, yet the game in question is more of the same Mafias. Wow, that did not come out right.

Thanatos2k:
It's like we've gotten to the point where people are now badly copying Ubisoft open world games rather than the usual other way around.

Well, to give the devs at least some credit, if you're going to copy a game formula, you might as well copy the guys making money hand over fist.

Also, I remember hearing that both this game and Homefront: The Reboot where just pushed out of the door in whatever state the developers considered "complete" because of both projects taking way too long. The story is after being passed around one too many times for years, the publisher just came down, pointed at a studio, and declared that they finish the game so that everyone can move on with their lives. Though, I have to say, that actually does increase 2K's and Deep Silver's credibility.

Or, at the very least, it does makes them look better than other studios who announce a title and continue to have the project in constantly influx for years on end with no solid release in site (I won't mention any name, but I will give you their NYSE symbols: Sony and SquarEnix).

Everywhere I go says the story/characters are good but the gameplay is complete garbage and it isn't worth sifting through all that trash. Judging by this, not even the story is all that great, if only because, naturally, the tone has anime-levels of whiplash.

I see Lincoln Clay went to the Isaac Clarke School of Naming.

Now I wonder what Yahtzee's take on the racial politics of BioShock Infinite was, because that game also seemed to use its old-timey setting as an excuse to wallow in the racism of that era without meaningfully commenting on it. And at least this game lets you play as a black person who massacres the KKK because of a personal vendetta rather than a disaffected white dude who kills them because they're in his way. And doesn't conspicuously tiptoe around the use of racial epithets.

Silentpony:
Not to be 'that guy'

Too late - nah, I'm just kidding, you're alright. :)

...but seriously, what does Gender Politics have to do with any of this? Racial politics, perhaps, but its a game set in a racist era. It'd be like complaining about anti-Semitic tones in a game set in a Nazi Germany death camp.

Never doubt the power of a special snowflake with the bit between their teeth - for instance, how many of the underbosses are women? What kind of clothes do any of the women wear? Is there any violence directed at them and shown on camera? Are there Ladies of Negotiable Virtue (tm)? How are THEY treated? Are there depictions of alternate(?) gender identities, and if so, how are those folks treated? And on, and on, and on, and on...:/

You'd think the racism would be the more reasonable (and larger) target to go after - sad to say, but folks that get up in arms about gender 'politics' tend not to be reasonable when riled. (Or indeed, at all.)

Oh well.

Well, that script is certainly one way to drive up traffic.

Johnny Novgorod:
I see Lincoln Clay went to the Isaac Clarke School of Naming.

That makes me wonder: Do developers think they are smart when they do this, or are they just too lazy to think of a name?

Dornedas:

Johnny Novgorod:
I see Lincoln Clay went to the Isaac Clarke School of Naming.

That makes me wonder: Do developers think they are smart when they do this, or are they just too lazy to think of a name?

I think the names work as place holders while in development (marginally better than Black Guy) and keep postponing "that one meeting" until it's too late or they don't care anymore.

THM:
Never doubt the power of a special snowflake with the bit between their teeth - for instance, how many of the underbosses are women? What kind of clothes do any of the women wear? Is there any violence directed at them and shown on camera? Are there Ladies of Negotiable Virtue (tm)? How are THEY treated? Are there depictions of alternate(?) gender identities, and if so, how are those folks treated? And on, and on, and on, and on...:/

You'd think the racism would be the more reasonable (and larger) target to go after - sad to say, but folks that get up in arms about gender 'politics' tend not to be reasonable when riled. (Or indeed, at all.)

Oh well.

Aren't you reacting before anyone else reacts thus kinda making yourself to be worse than they are? Self-created culture wars, and all that, both sides defining themselves through the Other Side, etc.

I think any decent critique of this game would stop and focus on the game's abhorrent morality and fetishism of murder and violence before even getting close to gender politics. It's like looking at a mass murdering sociopath and complaining they have terrible taste in shoes and keep leaving gates open...

/edit - That aside, if the game did feature some dicey depictions of women or gender, is there a law stating no one's allowed to have, y'know, an opinion on it? Does the industry explode if someone questions the depiction of something in a game?

Dornedas:

Johnny Novgorod:
I see Lincoln Clay went to the Isaac Clarke School of Naming.

That makes me wonder: Do developers think they are smart when they do this, or are they just too lazy to think of a name?

Its more like archetype stuff. Duke Nukem, Master Chief, Marshal Law, Lancelot Lakenight, Cloud Strife, Cream the Rabbit, Ceaseless Discharge...these are dumb names that are meant to encapsulate the character in their entirety.

Steve the Pocket:
Now I wonder what Yahtzee's take on the racial politics of BioShock Infinite was, because that game also seemed to use its old-timey setting as an excuse to wallow in the racism of that era without meaningfully commenting on it. And at least this game lets you play as a black person who massacres the KKK because of a personal vendetta rather than a disaffected white dude who kills them because they're in his way. And doesn't conspicuously tiptoe around the use of racial epithets.

I don't think Bioshock Infinite even attempted to address the whole racism issue, though. It was pretty much the only flaw in the place (forgotten the name), which suggests it was there to make it clear that these people are the bad guys. A comic-booky game like Bioshock probably isn't the place to be having deep and meaningful statements to make on race, anyway.

GTA style crime games are also a bad place to make political statements, because personally I can't identify with any of the lead characters anyway. They are all arseholes, the only way to make the plot remotely enticing is to go completely crazy and do something like make Donald Duck the gang leader.

Good stuff, the review made me laugh quite a few times, just a pity that bloody music is back at the start of ZP.

Looking at gameplay footage, the protagonist acts more like a horror movie slasher than an actual mob boss.

Darth Rosenberg:
Aren't you reacting before anyone else reacts thus kinda making yourself to be worse than they are? Self-created culture wars, and all that, both sides defining themselves through the Other Side, etc.

Probably. Thing is, sometimes it seems a bit random as to what's going to incite the next 'moral' panic. You're right, though; the whole thing is pretty self-defeating. :/

I think any decent critique of this game would stop and focus on the game's abhorrent morality and fetishism of murder and violence before even getting close to gender politics. It's like looking at a mass murdering sociopath and complaining they have terrible taste in shoes and keep leaving gates open...

True; but when the 'storm' is in the middle of raging, that kind of calm intelligence isn't there anymore.

/edit - That aside, if the game did feature some dicey depictions of women or gender, is there a law stating no one's allowed to have, y'know, an opinion on it? Does the industry explode if someone questions the depiction of something in a game?

It's not the having of opinions that's the problem; it's the ramming said opinion down everyone's throat, preferably until the nasty thing they don't like gets changed, which is the problem. As opposed to, say, those same folks going out and creating their own game/game series which treats the subject of gender the way they think it should be treated. Or I am just dreaming out loud. :)

Steve the Pocket:
Now I wonder what Yahtzee's take on the racial politics of BioShock Infinite was, because that game also seemed to use its old-timey setting as an excuse to wallow in the racism of that era without meaningfully commenting on it. And at least this game lets you play as a black person who massacres the KKK because of a personal vendetta rather than a disaffected white dude who kills them because they're in his way. And doesn't conspicuously tiptoe around the use of racial epithets.

I think Bioshock infinite was using racism to comment on American History and the American conception of success. The racism was the commentary.

Onliuge:
Can't wait for the gender politics vultures to start circling next week when this is on YouTube.

And I thought the first week of November was going to suck for Americans!

Can't help but notice that we don't actually get that many people complaining about sexism anymore, but there's no shortage of people complaining about people complaining about sexism in a dismissive manner.

OT: General reaction to Mafia 3 has been "bleh" all across the board. Trying to save money right about now, and this helps me.

I'm going to be honest, having a CIA Fairy Godmother sounds amazing. That's the closes anyone's come on selling me on Mafia 3. I mean, it's still not enough, but that's the best argument thus far...

THM:
Probably. Thing is, sometimes it seems a bit random as to what's going to incite the next 'moral' panic.

Does any of that really matter, though? Particularly given the shit publishers keep pulling, and given the the pre-order culture we're having to deal with?

Is gaming so weak - so pitiful and pathetic - that it, unlike any other artform, is broken by moral panics and nonsense?

True; but when the 'storm' is in the middle of raging, that kind of calm intelligence isn't there anymore.

It's getting a little philosophical... but maybe people should ignore what the storm's doing or not doing, and look to their own actions/thoughts instead. I think most people would agree people reacting to people reacting is blighting us all.

It's not the having of opinions that's the problem; it's the ramming said opinion down everyone's throat, preferably until the nasty thing they don't like gets changed, which is the problem. As opposed to, say, those same folks going out and creating their own game/game series which treats the subject of gender the way they think it should be treated. Or I am just dreaming out loud. :)

When, precisely, does an expression of opinion become "ramming" it down someone's throat, though? I feel that's a very nebulous thing, and people perceive that others are imposing their tastes on them simply because they are holding an opposed viewpoint, or, typically, one they can't understand or find sympathy in.

Also, surely it's a matter of perspective... If the principle of having an opinion or attitude rammed down one's throat is objectionable (a worldview or perspective that excludes those that don't match it), then what on earth does the typically heteronormative masculine consensus represent? What is that, if not a perceived or actual imposition on anyone who doesn't really fit that box?

Silentpony:

Its more like archetype stuff. Duke Nukem, Master Chief, Marshal Law, Lancelot Lakenight, Cloud Strife, Cream the Rabbit, Ceaseless Discharge...these are dumb names that are meant to encapsulate the character in their entirety.

Great now I know that a Sonic character with the name Cream the Rabbit exists. With everything that this implies
And I'm sure this knowledge will haunt me while I'm sleeping and I will wake up screaming, drenched in my own sweat.

What kind of monster would do something like this to another person?

Y'know, I don't think apologising for being an unapologetic racist is something that you can do.

(And yes, I know that was the joke.)

Darth Rosenberg:
When, precisely, does an expression of opinion become "ramming" it down someone's throat, though? I feel that's a very nebulous thing, and people perceive that others are imposing their tastes on them simply because they are holding an opposed viewpoint, or, typically, one they can't understand or find sympathy in.

Great post, would read again. Way too many people act so incredibly victimised just because someone out there is calling a thing racist or sexist. The line between "having an opinion" and "forcing your opinion on everyone else" is nonexistent when you start taking this attitude. If anything, this is the only moral panic I really see in the gaming community. That there are these evil, totalitarian Social Justice Warriors taking poor defenseless game developers hostage and forcing them to change all of their games to be ridiculously progressive against the will of the "real" gamers. Get out of here with that, if you favour freedom of speech then let people have their blog posts or twitter. If someone is calling something sexist and you think it's not, try argue why you think it isn't instead of arguing that merely talking about it is some devious form of oppression.

Dornedas:

Silentpony:

Its more like archetype stuff. Duke Nukem, Master Chief, Marshal Law, Lancelot Lakenight, Cloud Strife, Cream the Rabbit, Ceaseless Discharge...these are dumb names that are meant to encapsulate the character in their entirety.

Great now I know that a Sonic character with the name Cream the Rabbit exists. With everything that this implies
And I'm sure this knowledge will haunt me while I'm sleeping and I will wake up screaming, drenched in my own sweat.

What kind of monster would do something like this to another person?

Cream has a chao named Cheese, and together they're Cream & Cheese. But, then again, the people over at Sonic Team did name Cream's mother Vanilla.

Transdude1996:

Thanatos2k:
It's like we've gotten to the point where people are now badly copying Ubisoft open world games rather than the usual other way around.

Well, to give the devs at least some credit, if you're going to copy a game formula, you might as well copy the guys making money hand over fist.

That's usually a sure formula to:

1. Not make as much money as them

2. Be compared unfavorably to them.

3. Not quite understand why people like those games.

4. Poorly emulate the formula.

And people are even sick of open world Ubisoft games.......hence why Ubisoft has slowed their factory of churning them out. You picked the wrong thing to copy at the wrong time.

Yeah... Open world games are starting to just become bland for me, and I tend to like open world games. I'll still want to try out mafia 3 sometime.

Steve the Pocket:
Now I wonder what Yahtzee's take on the racial politics of BioShock Infinite was, because that game also seemed to use its old-timey setting as an excuse to wallow in the racism of that era without meaningfully commenting on it. And at least this game lets you play as a black person who massacres the KKK because of a personal vendetta rather than a disaffected white dude who kills them because they're in his way. And doesn't conspicuously tiptoe around the use of racial epithets.

Catnip1024:
I don't think Bioshock Infinite even attempted to address the whole racism issue, though. It was pretty much the only flaw in the place (forgotten the name), which suggests it was there to make it clear that these people are the bad guys. A comic-booky game like Bioshock probably isn't the place to be having deep and meaningful statements to make on race, anyway.

wizzy555:
I think Bioshock infinite was using racism to comment on American History and the American conception of success. The racism was the commentary.

I think the racism was more to do with it's exploration of Comstock than anything else.

It's the same with Django for me. The amount of times they said nigger in that one scene was really obnoxious, like they just discovered they could get away with it.

I can't recall, has Yahtzee used the N-word in past Zero Punctuations? Because somewhere in my memory I recall him using it...

Redlin5:
I can't recall, has Yahtzee used the N-word in past Zero Punctuations? Because somewhere in my memory I recall him using it...

50 cent: Blood in the Sand review, I think.

Alma Mare:

Redlin5:
I can't recall, has Yahtzee used the N-word in past Zero Punctuations? Because somewhere in my memory I recall him using it...

50 cent: Blood in the Sand review, I think.

Watched that I recently, I don't think he did. He did say it when reviewing GTA: Online, though.

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