Citizen Kane-ing

Citizen Kane-ing

So, I got sucked into Minecraft.

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Mine craft is different, I knowncIm the wrong generation now because I just don't get it. Minecraft has shaped culture in a way most games never will.

On a tangent, my son has the xbox one minecraft and now we have a new pc wants the real version. Ive seen that you can buy it from mojang but it is cheaper on ms store for the "windows 10 version".

What is the difference?

bjj hero:

On a tangent, my son has the xbox one minecraft and now we have a new pc wants the real version. Ive seen that you can buy it from mojang but it is cheaper on ms store for the "windows 10 version".

What is the difference?

The Windows 10 version was still a beta until very recently. Apparently, they're going to hike up the price soon.

I think emceeprophet had a better argument for the citizen kane of gaming. Both Ocarina of Time and Half Life were the Citizen Kanes of games. Minecraft is just a very lucrative fad right now. We wont see much from it outside of the crafting genre.

bjj hero:
Mine craft is different, I knowncIm the wrong generation now because I just don't get it. Minecraft has shaped culture in a way most games never will.

On a tangent, my son has the xbox one minecraft and now we have a new pc wants the real version. Ive seen that you can buy it from mojang but it is cheaper on ms store for the "windows 10 version".

What is the difference?

The Windows 10 version is based on the Xbox/Mobile/Inferior version. Only the Mojang version is the "real", java-based version. If you're worried about it, if you buy the Mojang version you get the Win10 version for free anyway. Or at least, I did.

Robert B. Marks:
Citizen Kane-ing

So, I got sucked into Minecraft.

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P.S. your patreon banner at the bottom is not a link

nickpy:

bjj hero:
Mine craft is different, I knowncIm the wrong generation now because I just don't get it. Minecraft has shaped culture in a way most games never will.

On a tangent, my son has the xbox one minecraft and now we have a new pc wants the real version. Ive seen that you can buy it from mojang but it is cheaper on ms store for the "windows 10 version".

What is the difference?

The Windows 10 version is based on the Xbox/Mobile/Inferior version. Only the Mojang version is the "real", java-based version. If you're worried about it, if you buy the Mojang version you get the Win10 version for free anyway. Or at least, I did.

Thank you. Thats what I was after.

What does it mean to be the "Citizen Kane" of something? I think that needs to be defined and established to really make an apt comparison.

Second, and more a pet peeve of mine, but when I think of Minecraft, I think building things, and literally everything being materials. When people compare Ark to Minecraft...I cant dig a hole to the bottom of the world in Ark, then use what I dig out to build a castle.

Saelune:
What does it mean to be the "Citizen Kane" of something? I think that needs to be defined and established to really make an apt comparison.

Second, and more a pet peeve of mine, but when I think of Minecraft, I think building things, and literally everything being materials. When people compare Ark to Minecraft...I cant dig a hole to the bottom of the world in Ark, then use what I dig out to build a castle.

Anyone who understands the significance of Citizen Kane will find it easy to define. That said, I get your point because it's become more of a holy grail for gaming without anyone knowing what CK did so well.

Citizen Kane was the first film to put actual effort into shot composition and other filming techniques we all just take for granted these days. It wasn't because it was some amazing story or "the best movie ever," it just did things no one had ever done before, and it trail-blazed its way into being the standard of the medium.

As I mentioned above, Ocarina of Time did this, as well has Half-Life. Now, both are really good games, but they set the standards they pioneered with things like Z-targeting and live NPC storytelling while in the midst of gameplay. Sure, you have 3D adventure games before Zelda, like Mario 64, and shooters, like Doom, but those were more of the prototypes for their genres than actual trail-blazers like Citizen Kane was for film.

Signa:

Saelune:
What does it mean to be the "Citizen Kane" of something? I think that needs to be defined and established to really make an apt comparison.

Second, and more a pet peeve of mine, but when I think of Minecraft, I think building things, and literally everything being materials. When people compare Ark to Minecraft...I cant dig a hole to the bottom of the world in Ark, then use what I dig out to build a castle.

Anyone who understands the significance of Citizen Kane will find it easy to define. That said, I get your point because it's become more of a holy grail for gaming without anyone knowing what CK did so well.

Citizen Kane was the first film to put actual effort into shot composition and other filming techniques we all just take for granted these days. It wasn't because it was some amazing story or "the best movie ever," it just did things no one had ever done before, and it trail-blazed its way into being the standard of the medium.

As I mentioned above, Ocarina of Time did this, as well has Half-Life. Now, both are really good games, but they set the standards they pioneered with things like Z-targeting and live NPC storytelling while in the midst of gameplay. Sure, you have 3D adventure games before Zelda, like Mario 64, and shooters, like Doom, but those were more of the prototypes for their genres than actual trail-blazers like Citizen Kane was for film.

I am no film buff. I certainly think that apparently what is great about that movie is lost even among those who revere it. I find it funny that the whole plot of the movie is based on well, a plot hole. Who the hell heard his last words?

If it is as you say, that what was great about it is how it was made rather than the mere contents of the plot, then it is poorly expressed. I do understand it though, because I think Half-Life 2 is great when you consider it in it's time and know it may seem generic if you look at it by today's standards, but then, I -am- a game buff.

Though considering that then, I would have to say either Super Mario Bros, or even the NES itself is "The Citizen Cane of Gaming" since I feel that is the true mark of gaming becoming truly serious and relevant on a bigger scale.

Saelune:

Signa:

Saelune:
What does it mean to be the "Citizen Kane" of something? I think that needs to be defined and established to really make an apt comparison.

Second, and more a pet peeve of mine, but when I think of Minecraft, I think building things, and literally everything being materials. When people compare Ark to Minecraft...I cant dig a hole to the bottom of the world in Ark, then use what I dig out to build a castle.

Anyone who understands the significance of Citizen Kane will find it easy to define. That said, I get your point because it's become more of a holy grail for gaming without anyone knowing what CK did so well.

Citizen Kane was the first film to put actual effort into shot composition and other filming techniques we all just take for granted these days. It wasn't because it was some amazing story or "the best movie ever," it just did things no one had ever done before, and it trail-blazed its way into being the standard of the medium.

As I mentioned above, Ocarina of Time did this, as well has Half-Life. Now, both are really good games, but they set the standards they pioneered with things like Z-targeting and live NPC storytelling while in the midst of gameplay. Sure, you have 3D adventure games before Zelda, like Mario 64, and shooters, like Doom, but those were more of the prototypes for their genres than actual trail-blazers like Citizen Kane was for film.

I am no film buff. I certainly think that apparently what is great about that movie is lost even among those who revere it. I find it funny that the whole plot of the movie is based on well, a plot hole. Who the hell heard his last words?

If it is as you say, that what was great about it is how it was made rather than the mere contents of the plot, then it is poorly expressed. I do understand it though, because I think Half-Life 2 is great when you consider it in it's time and know it may seem generic if you look at it by today's standards, but then, I -am- a game buff.

Though considering that then, I would have to say either Super Mario Bros, or even the NES itself is "The Citizen Cane of Gaming" since I feel that is the true mark of gaming becoming truly serious and relevant on a bigger scale.

Its not necessarily the movie itself but rather the impact the way the film was made had upon the industry and how subsequent films borrowed or improved upon the formula or techniques of the movie with each iteration. There even are films that are the "Citizen Kane" of their era, but its because CK was really the first major axial point in filmmaking that it gets such attention.
So the quality of the film by today's standards is irrelevant, and serves no purpose.
The point being made here is that people may incorrectly use the concept of "The Citizen Kane of..." moniker because it applies to anything that serves as an axial point that has noticeable influences on the medium going forward.
The honest first CK of gaming most likely is actually three games in my opinion... Super Mario Brothers, Legend of Zelda and Metroid, because they all served as axial points to games going forward.
SMB still had a lot of the guts of the arcade system of lives, high scores and whatnot, but it did not necessarily subscribe to the punishingly hard aspect of those guts as other games did like say Ghosts n' Goblins. It was accessible to people of all ages (personally I recall my grandparents and my parents both loving SMB), and iconic in many ways, and many subsequent games have patterned things off of SMB's makeup.
Legend of Zelda did a lot for laying the groundwork of an open world experience, as well as storylines, though it was highly rudimentary in doing the latter. Still it was one of the first games you could tackle from multiple angles, explore near-fully without much hampering your progress. It still did attempt to guide you into an order of tackling the dungeons but even that could be subverted by wily players, plus it really introduced the first signs of long-term replayability with its second iteration of the overworld, new game + before there was such a term. AND finally it also was one of the first games to actively save progress without need of a password system.
Metroid may have similarities to LoZ in the concept of an open world, but it in my opinion also introduced the concept of truly upgrading your character, not just health or ammo or various powerups that may or may not wear off, but mechanics changes that affected the way you tackled the environment as well as the enemies.
And since those three games there've been multiple examples of CK games, as Mr. Marks has so eloquently stated about DOOM, Minecraft, and so on.
So yes, its not necessarily the film itself, but the elements that compose it that make CK an impactful thing on the industry of film, that pieces of its makeup still show up in modern films. That proliferation is why its such a big deal.

Saelune:

Though considering that then, I would have to say either Super Mario Bros, or even the NES itself is "The Citizen Cane of Gaming" since I feel that is the true mark of gaming becoming truly serious and relevant on a bigger scale.

I just had this conversation with my friends after making this post. *I* believe that because the medium of games is so diverse, having a "Citizen Kane" for each genre starts to seem like a cumbersome idea, because there's too many ways to begin expressing ideas in the medium. I want to separate out that from new ideas to ones that gets perfected. Compared to film, it would be like rediscovering the concept of making a movie each time a genre is created, and that's just too much to analyze. I'd rather look at the beginnings of genres (Wolfenstein, Doom) to be more of a prototype for the concept of the genre, than the actual defining moment of what the medium can do (any modern shooter). Finding a good turning point that took the idea, and then perfected in it a way that not using it as a blueprint for future titles is a bad idea. HL1 and HL2 are good examples of it. My friends also said Quake, because it was the first 3D shooter with mouse aim.

I guess all that was just to say that SMB was a good forerunner or prototype for gaming, but most of its lessons are lost these days due to 3D gaming. Hmm, maybe that does make it a good Citizen Kane...

Still, we all agreed that Minecraft is an AWFUL example of a CK for gaming.

Signa:

Saelune:

Though considering that then, I would have to say either Super Mario Bros, or even the NES itself is "The Citizen Cane of Gaming" since I feel that is the true mark of gaming becoming truly serious and relevant on a bigger scale.

I just had this conversation with my friends after making this post. *I* believe that because the medium of games is so diverse, having a "Citizen Kane" for each genre starts to seem like a cumbersome idea, because there's too many ways to begin expressing ideas in the medium. I want to separate out that from new ideas to ones that gets perfected. Compared to film, it would be like rediscovering the concept of making a movie each time a genre is created, and that's just too much to analyze. I'd rather look at the beginnings of genres (Wolfenstein, Doom) to be more of a prototype for the concept of the genre, than the actual defining moment of what the medium can do (any modern shooter). Finding a good turning point that took the idea, and then perfected in it a way that not using it as a blueprint for future titles is a bad idea. HL1 and HL2 are good examples of it. My friends also said Quake, because it was the first 3D shooter with mouse aim.

I guess all that was just to say that SMB was a good forerunner or prototype for gaming, but most of its lessons are lost these days due to 3D gaming. Hmm, maybe that does make it a good Citizen Kane...

Still, we all agreed that Minecraft is an AWFUL example of a CK for gaming.

Well, one major issue with any such comparisons is that life doesnt work 1 for 1 usually. Gaming and movies are really vastly different on so many levels that you cannot expect to compare them so simply.

I dont really think looking for a true "Citizen Kane of Gaming" benefits anyone and honestly seems more like some pretentious person who just wants to brag about movies.

Games like Pong birthed gaming, Arcades nurtured the earliest seeds, the NES and Nintendo revived and established a stable foundation for gaming, then games started defining themselves. Games like Wolfenstein and DOOM, and Mario Bros, and Dune II, and GTAIII, and so on.

Minecraft, though a great game, I think was a catalyst more for games with unending development. A blessing when done right, a curse when done wrong (mostly based on if the developers keep going and if the gameplay leaves it open ended).

I think chaining games to movie development is holding the genre back. I dont want to put down movies (or books) and both will always have a place Im sure, but I think gaming is a far superior medium overall due to all the different ways you can experience them compared to those other mediums.

Saelune:
What does it mean to be the "Citizen Kane" of something? I think that needs to be defined and established to really make an apt comparison.

Citizen Kane has been called the most influential film of all time. The "Citizen Kane" of something means that the rest of the something was heavily influenced afterwards. It's not just being popular or a financial success, but being something that gave inspiration to several other creators to try new ideas (beyond cash grabs).

Someone got sucked into Minecraft.

They keep updating that bastard too. The latest update changed the combat mechanics and added more stuff to the end of the game. But some of the real Minecraft success is how it's a great tool for creativity; and how creative people took advantage of that.

While I can see where he's coming from with Minecraft, Star Control 2 is a more convincing candidate for No Man's Sky inspiration.

 

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