The Star Wars Movie We Needed

The Star Wars Movie We Needed

Rogue One is the Star Wars movie that the original trilogy has needed for a very long time.

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Robert B. Marks:
The Star Wars Movie We Needed

Rogue One is the Star Wars movie that the original trilogy has needed for a very long time.

Read Full Article

Once again you've managed to make a point I've been struggling to articulate. Thank you sir. And also that letter just gave me the giggles.

Yes Star Wars absolutely suffered from the inability to see the effect the Empire had on its random citizenry and just why the rebellion was necessary. Even if you view it from the lens of the Prequels, and there's no denying that Vader and Palpatine are bad guys... it still left the question of whether or not the Empire turned out to be beneficial for the citizens without the Jedi.
Sure the EU books did a better job of expanding on the smaller focus of how the Empire treated citizens (especially non-humans) but not seeing it on the big screen was a bit of a disconnect. Rogue One, and it had some faults mind you, managed to make the Empire seem exactly what it was supposed to portray and why it was necessary to resit/rebel against.

Interesting, I thought Rogue One wasn't well-liked. Doesn't mean it can't fill a niche further elaborating why the Empire outside the EU is about 90% evil and had to be toppled even if it required a 'destructive conflict' spanning a galaxy.

The signs were there in the first film though, just more subtle. The tons of visual parallels to Nazi Germany aside, there's an Imperial officer who addresses Chewbacca as 'thing'. This happens aboard a giant weapon that destroys entire inhabited worlds that is directed by a man who is clearly eager to use it on anyone he can justify.

Then there's the Empire's two leaders. An outsider might argue that Lord Vader is simply a veteran military leader (he saw some shit in the Clone Wars, man) under a massive amount of pressure to rout the insurgents and is thus easily provoked to violence by fools, but Palpatine is a cackling madman out of a Flash Gordon comic. So much for subtle. And yet people still needed further proof?

Instead of making up your own letter (the one submitted by Geisterkarle is a good one), I would have liked to see the letter from Grand Moff Tarkin to Palpatine outlining the initial plan of the Tarkin Doctrine reprinted. One sec:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tarkin_Doctrine/Legends

Yeah, it was the kind of Star Wars movie we needed. If only it was an actually good movie...

Most expensive fan film ever made.

I'll write this: it was better than VII. VII was an enjoyable popcorn movie but it upended everything I'd been watching 6 movies over 3 decades was supposed to be about. Luke was supposed to be triumphant. Instead, it was a rehash of 4, as if ZERO progress had been made.

And you think I want to see young Han, knowing his horrible fate? There is no happy end here!

But it is certainly worth buying on Bluray. Visually spectacular and that robot was a lot of fun. But, ...

Geisterkarle:
While we are at open letters:
http://www.dorkly.com/post/59234/an-open-letter-from-a-death-star-architect

Great letter, thanks for sharing.

The reason they didn't fix it:

But the ultimate f' up in Star Wars? They don't shoot the droids at the beginning, sensing no life forms. Why? Trying to save laser bullets?

Cowabungaa:
Yeah, it was the kind of Star Wars movie we needed. If only it was an actually good movie...

Or even added to the plot.

I'll give it that it's the only Star Wars movie that makes the galaxy far, far away feel practical and lived-in, but as with Gareth Edwards' Godzilla movie the characters are so unbelievably bland it drags the whole thing down.

Can't agree it was the movie we needed. Nothing about it at all engaged me. It had none of the magic that other star wars materials have. It was just...there, taking up space. Zero investment in anything going on, or any of the characters.

All it really did was fill up blank space. Not a bad movie, just tent-poling the franchise until IX comes out.

I think TFA was the film the entire franchise desperately needed, and Rogue One was--- I dunno, a very interesting and superficially engaging tone-poem/proof-of-concept... I love it for its grit and tone, something I never thought I'd see in a SW film. I also feel it's by far the best photographed entry in the entire series (the SW world has never looked so good, or so convincingly real).

Still, an interesting read and on paper I suppose I do agree. What hurts Rogue One is its entirely inessential plot and the lack of characterisation, and so its contextualisation of the original film is tricky to admire.

I rewatched it a few weeks ago, followed immediately by A New Hope - I like how they tie together now (added context and world building very much included), although ANH is kinda getting worse every time I see it... I find the end almost impossible to watch, what with all the weird grins and awkward lack of dialogue. Also, if Rogue One was a necessary expansion of its world, then the prequels mostly sabotaged the character narratives in the original trilogy (knowing Darth Vader spent much of his life being a complete moron doesn't exactly help, either).

Suffice to say the SW film series is an absolute disjointed mess... Although bar the prequels and much of ANH, it is a wonderful mess.

Well it's better than The Force Awakens, but I wouldn't really call it a good movie and especially not the movie Star Wars needed. Jyn... Well she's better than Ma-Rey Su (or maybe I should call her Anna-Rey), but she spends most of the movie basically being reluctant to be the protagonist. While The Farce Awakens is trying to hard simultaneously to be a Star Wars movie and a Marvel Cinematic Universe action movie, Rouge One at least seems to have some idea what it is.

It's not really a good movie, but it's better then TFA, and let's face it, The Force Awakens is NOT the movie Star Wars needed. It's too concerned ripping off A New Hope and turning it into No Hope.

I just can't do it. I can't accept a world without Kyle Katarn.

JCAll:
I just can't do it. I can't accept a world without Kyle Katarn.

Dr. McD:
Well it's better than The Force Awakens, but I wouldn't really call it a good movie and especially not the movie Star Wars needed. Jyn... Well she's better than Ma-Rey Su (or maybe I should call her Anna-Rey), but she spends most of the movie basically being reluctant to be the protagonist. While The Farce Awakens is trying to hard simultaneously to be a Star Wars movie and a Marvel Cinematic Universe action movie, Rouge One at least seems to have some idea what it is.

It's not really a good movie, but it's better then TFA, and let's face it, The Force Awakens is NOT the movie Star Wars needed. It's too concerned ripping off A New Hope and turning it into No Hope.

Couldn't disagree more. To me TFA is a superior film in every regard. Characters more likeable and who are actual characters instead of broad stroke archetypes. A plot that while abit of a rehash still moved things forward in an interesting way. And it felt less like a big budget fan film than Rogue one.

Things Expanded Mythos Cannot Fix

1. Boring Characters
2. Dull story and plot
3. Dull story and plot in service to a needless prequel
4. Bad dialogIAMONEWITHTHEFORCETHEFORCEISWITHMEIAMO
5. Stiff acting as a result of the bad dialog
6. A lack luster conclusion
7. Unexciting action set pieces
8. Excessive fan service

The main reason why more people aren't calling Rouge One a nice looking and occasionally fun, yet forgettable bog standard sci-fi action place holder seems all to do with the Star Wars logo on it.

WhiteFangofWhoa:

The signs were there in the first film though, just more subtle. The tons of visual parallels to Nazi Germany aside, there's an Imperial officer who addresses Chewbacca as 'thing'. This happens aboard a giant weapon that destroys entire inhabited worlds that is directed by a man who is clearly eager to use it on anyone he can justify.

Then there's the Empire's two leaders. An outsider might argue that Lord Vader is simply a veteran military leader (he saw some shit in the Clone Wars, man) under a massive amount of pressure to rout the insurgents and is thus easily provoked to violence by fools, but Palpatine is a cackling madman out of a Flash Gordon comic. So much for subtle. And yet people still needed further proof?

I would add in the fact that all Lando has to do is say, "The Empire has taken control of the city" for everyone to start panicking and screaming. If the government taking over a city causes that type of reaction in the citizens, there's something seriously wrong with said government.

Sniper Team 4:

I would add in the fact that all Lando has to do is say, "The Empire has taken control of the city" for everyone to start panicking and screaming. If the government taking over a city causes that type of reaction in the citizens, there's something seriously wrong with said government.

True, but Ice Cream Maker Guy never panics:
image

Let's step back a moment though and look at the other aspects of that event. Lando is running a public commercial interest, a mining colony. The government comes in and orders him to cooperate with the capture of his friends in exchange for not invading the place on a whim, seizing, dismembering and torturing them and even selling one of them to a notorious crime lord. Then, when Lando holds up his end of the deal, they renege and invade anyway.

Normal citizens who were living there just trying to live a quiet life away from the war would rather leave their homes behind than face an Imperial governor, because it seems most of them are the same kind of callously cruel English aristocrats as Tarkin and Admiral Motti.

Winnosh:

JCAll:
I just can't do it. I can't accept a world without Kyle Katarn.

Dr. McD:
Well it's better than The Force Awakens, but I wouldn't really call it a good movie and especially not the movie Star Wars needed. Jyn... Well she's better than Ma-Rey Su (or maybe I should call her Anna-Rey), but she spends most of the movie basically being reluctant to be the protagonist. While The Farce Awakens is trying to hard simultaneously to be a Star Wars movie and a Marvel Cinematic Universe action movie, Rouge One at least seems to have some idea what it is.

It's not really a good movie, but it's better then TFA, and let's face it, The Force Awakens is NOT the movie Star Wars needed. It's too concerned ripping off A New Hope and turning it into No Hope.

Couldn't disagree more. To me TFA is a superior film in every regard. Characters more likeable and who are actual characters instead of broad stroke archetypes. A plot that while abit of a rehash still moved things forward in an interesting way. And it felt less like a big budget fan film than Rogue one.

I couldn't agree less. I committed to not seeing a Star Wars movie again after TFA. I only just watched Rogue One a couple of days ago becuase people say it's not like Star Wars. Rey is characterised as wanting to get away but waiting for someone. Jyn is characterised by hating the Empire (becuase of her father) but not trusting the alliance (becuase of her second father figure). One is abstract and one is tangible, related to the story. Somehow all the other movie were very black and white, even with Solo being a smuggler. Rogue had shades of grey, including the alliance wanting to kill Jyn becuase of her father

As to secondary characters, all are trash. Finn, Cassian, Solo, Baze. But Rogue felt like it was a team. TFA was a couple of people taking on a whole Death Star.

I'm probably never going to see the Last Jedi, unless they say it's different from a normal Star Wars movie.

Rogue One is the fourth or third best Star Wars movie (it beats out the entire prequel trilogy and VII, and about 40% of VI). Even if it isn't what the franchise needed, because honestly even though I like it it was entirely unnecessary, it works. Solid. 7/10, would see again.

I think it's worse than IV, V, VI, I, III and VII. Not a good movie. Left me pretty jaded about future expanded universe movies.

Qwi Xux wants to know why everyone wants to blow up the mining instillation she helped design.

Some points:

"However, the world-building leaves a lot to be desired. We never see more than a handful of planets, and nobody stays on them for very long. Neither do any of them feel terribly populated."

That's true, to an extent, but I don't think Rogue One does any better. We see the effect of the Empire, but we saw it on Tatooine, on Bespin, and off-handedly, Alderaan as well. The prequels do the best job of actually showing you what everyday life is like, but everyday life is going to vary by planet.

"Likewise, the Rebel Alliance doesn't feel all that credible or real. Outside of the opening scrawl of Star Wars, for the entire first two movies the Empire comes to them rather than the other way around. You don't see the Rebels engage in raids or guerrilla warfare, you don't see the espionage or plotting in dark corners, and you don't see the disagreements that arise among factions about how to win. The Rebels are storybook heroes, fighting a storybook villain, and the original trilogy never pushes beyond those broad strokes."

I agree, but I don't see it as a negative. The original trilogy is 'classical' in both its storytelling and, at least for A New Hope, its filmmaking. There's an appeal in the space fantasy of Star Wars in this binary divide. I don't think that precludes moral ambiguity from Star Wars, the Empire/Rebels or otherwise, but I don't feel the original trilogy is hobbled by it. Rogue One's tone and aesthetics don't really gel with the original trilogy. And while I'm fine with that (same reason I'm fine with the prequels having a different tone/aesthetic as well), it's not a personal plus for me.

"We see that the Imperial ruthlessness extends to every level of the Empire, with even Death Star engineers working under the threat of a gun pointed at their heads."

It's a case of "stupid-evil" for me in that case. Yes, let's just shoot these engineers instead of trying to draw out an interogation further without wasting manpower.

Anyway, on some other notes, since people are playing the ranking game, okay, I'll play:

9) The Clone Wars
8) Attack of the Clones
7) Rogue One
6) The Phantom Menace
5) The Force Awakens
4) The Empire Strikes Back
3) Revenge of the Sith
2) Return of the Jedi
1) A New Hope

Yep, I'm not fond of Rogue One. It has a very good third act, but the first two are hindered by its eccentric pacing and lack of character development. I feel TFA does a better job on its character front by, in part, focusing on a smaller group of characters.

 

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