Wagon Train to the Stars, Redux

Wagon Train to the Stars, Redux

It's time for a firm reminder that humanity has a future. It's time for another Star Trek, and happily, one is just around the corner.

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Well that was alot of fluff about nothing. Sorry Robert, but it was. I mean, at best it is just an ad for the new Star Trek aimed at progressive left-wing people like me.

But I am over half-way through TNG, and want to talk about Star Trek anyways.

Though I wish I could care about this show, but its on some service I dont have and wont buy. If it was on Netflix or TV, Id watch it, but its not.

Shame, cause its already pissed off bigots by having women be Captain and First Officer, an asian and black woman respectively. Oh, you dont like the progressive pandering? Many decades too late for that. What next? You take issue that its in space?

Oh, and its a prequel show, meh. I'd rather a new show that pushes the timeline forward.

Take it out from behind the paywall and I'll watch. Until then, meh.

Yes yes, old Trek was ground breaking and is very memorable. At least those 15 good episodes everyone remembers.
Remember that time Spock was controlled with a TV remote? Exactly.

Silentpony:
Yes yes, old Trek was ground breaking and is very memorable. At least those 15 good episodes everyone remembers.
Remember that time Spock was controlled with a TV remote? Exactly.

Ah yes, Spock's Brain. Season 3, episode 1. A level of cheesiness more typically found in Lost in Space rather than Star Trek. Truly bad. I don't know who the writer of that particular horror show was, but they had the entire summer to come up with something good, and that's what they vomited out. I hope they've spent the last 50 years thinking about what they did while hanging their head in shame.

To be fair though, that is the worst episode in the entire original series. IMO, there were a lot more good episodes than bad ones, which puts it way over 15.

Did this guy watch the trailer? This is NOT going to be an optimistic show. It's going to be another dark, run-of-the-mill piece of garbage like every sci-fi show we've had since Babylon 5 ended (I'd have said Voyager, but that was also run-of-the-mill).

Star Trek is second to James Bond as a series that needs to be retired. Pretty much every storyline you can milk from those IP's have been done. They are like rock bands past their prime. All they can do is to play the hits from the past. There will be an audience for that. As for their ability to produce anything new and noteworthy, that is not going to happen with this new series or any new James Bond movie.

Silentpony:
Yes yes, old Trek was ground breaking and is very memorable. At least those 15 good episodes everyone remembers.
Remember that time Spock was controlled with a TV remote? Exactly.

I for one prefer a certain badass lizard fight and frame the rest of it the old stuff as 'unparalleled awesome' but remembering nothing else. But in truth old treck was always weird. Greek gods, giant space ameboa, horta... (actually that last one is one of my favourite )

KissingSunlight:
Star Trek is second to James Bond as a series that needs to be retired. Pretty much every storyline you can milk from those IP's have been done. They are like rock bands past their prime. All they can do is to play the hits from the past. There will be an audience for that. As for their ability to produce anything new and noteworthy, that is not going to happen with this new series or any new James Bond movie.

I'm not entirely convinced that there is nowhere to go. There are plenty of unexplored (at least in televised media) angles to the star treck universe that could be interesting if the right writer got a hold of it.

What I am is sceptical of is that said writer will actually get their hands on it - or at the very least being able to maintain enough control over the subject matter.

Robert B. Marks:
humanity has a future

Does it really though? One of the simpler explanations for Fermi's Paradox is that intelligent life tends to (perhaps even invariably) self-annihilate. Consider technological progress - it's not just a linear process of advancing the total of human knowledge and developing new applications for it, it also includes proliferation of existing technology. Given how far we still appear to be, technologically, from being able to create self-sustainable offworld colonies and how nuclear disarmament programs have been by and large aimed solely at curbing the growth of existing nuclear powers' arsenal, it would seem we'll be facing a period, perhaps an extended one, where most of the world's countries have the capability to end it before our existence as a species is secured through the abovementioned offworld colony. And all it would take would be one nutter rising to power in a country with thermonuclear capabilities and sufficiently lax safeguards (or having said nutter abuse their political position to circumvent any safeguards and seize full power, as authoritarian leaders are wont to do).

Wide scale political unification, or at least mutually coordinated cooperation in the vein of European Union, but on a global scale, could be the answer to this issue, but I am, at this point, highly skeptical of the idea we could muster this much political goodwill. Hell, if the Biosphere 2 experiment is any indication, I'd say creating conflicting societies or social groups may be something humans do on a purely instinctive level.

So, we do live in the period of "Long Peace" right now. Enjoy it while it lasts, but don't take it for granted.

As for Star Trek... Uh, I dunno, I used to like Star Wars better, but I'm kinda keeping my distance to that too now with Disney in charge... Got nothing, sorry :(

RonHiler:

Silentpony:
Yes yes, old Trek was ground breaking and is very memorable. At least those 15 good episodes everyone remembers.
Remember that time Spock was controlled with a TV remote? Exactly.

Ah yes, Spock's Brain. Season 3, episode 1. A level of cheesiness more typically found in Lost in Space rather than Star Trek. Truly bad. I don't know who the writer of that particular horror show was, but they had the entire summer to come up with something good, and that's what they vomited out. I hope they've spent the last 50 years thinking about what they did while hanging their head in shame.

To be fair though, that is the worst episode in the entire original series. IMO, there were a lot more good episodes than bad ones, which puts it way over 15.

Spock's Brain can be in part put down to the change of producer between seasons, and the new producer having decidedly lower opinion of sci-fi in general, and Star Trek in particular. (when assigned to another series, Space: 1999 he saw a street sign for Luton, thought it sounded exotic and insisted on making an episode called The Rules Of Luton)

I'm a little late to the party but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents on how you've presented the argument.

In short I disagree with the premise that things are worse than ever. I understand where you're coming from but I'd just like to point out that by most measurable standards life is better now than ever before. Crime rates are down, life expediencies are up, and we have access to technology the likes of which you couldn't even describe to someone 20 years ago without them laughing in your face. I have watched, over my 30+ year life, as acceptance in general has expanded, and we have known peace in a way the world has never had before.

Don't get me wrong, I see what you're talking about with the perceived resurgence in racism and general xenophobia... but is life really worse for anyone than it was 20-30 years ago? Do you really believe that people are being more racist than they were before or are we just shining a closer spotlight on it?

Humans are a difficult bunch. If you tell them what to do they will go out of their way to not do that thing. So the more we try to force people to be tolerant the less tolerant they will be. If there has been a resurgence in racism then it's because people have started doing it just to go against the grain.

Bringing this back to the originating point of Star Trek: I hate to admit it but Star Trek really only appeals to trekkies and trekkies are the last group of people that need a message of tolerance. I mean the captains have been diverse, the relationships even more diverse, and storylines that have probed into practically every aspect of our beliefs.

I believe one of the best ways to promote tolerance is to introduce people to aspects of society they don't normally see and a TV show that has 'minority' characters that aren't just stereotypes is a great way to do that. Unfortunately Star Trek is just not the vehicle for that anymore... good that it's out there, but it's already effected everyone it's going to effect. We need something new for the problems we face now.

Silentpony:
Remember that time Spock was controlled with a TV remote? Exactly.

Or when Sulu was very seriously holding an 'alien' that was just a small dog with a pluche collar and some iron wire. But that kind of hilarious low-budget crap is part of the charm for me though. It's almost slapstick in this day and age, but damned if they weren't sincere about it at the time. That just makes it precious.

Saelune:

Oh, and its a prequel show, meh. I'd rather a new show that pushes the timeline forward.

I thought Enterprise would have killed off any passion for prequals.

I wonder what universe/timeline they'll tie it into?

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:

Oh, and its a prequel show, meh. I'd rather a new show that pushes the timeline forward.

I thought Enterprise would have killed off any passion for prequals.

I wonder what universe/timeline they'll tie it into?

Its supposed to be part of the main one, not the movies. It takes place 10 years before The Original Series.

I guess they just want to pander to what we know rather than creating new ideas. Im sure Kirk's father or something will pop up and retconned Klingons.

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:

Oh, and its a prequel show, meh. I'd rather a new show that pushes the timeline forward.

I thought Enterprise would have killed off any passion for prequals.

I wonder what universe/timeline they'll tie it into?

Its supposed to be part of the main one, not the movies. It takes place 10 years before The Original Series.

I guess they just want to pander to what we know rather than creating new ideas. Im sure Kirk's father or something will pop up and retconned Klingons.

so they'll just limit themselves or risk contradicting TOS.
Shame.

I always felt TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY were seperate universes/timelines. Apparently Roddenberry didn't mind some revisionism so theres inconsistencies between TOS, the Motion Picture and TNG.

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:
I thought Enterprise would have killed off any passion for prequals.

I wonder what universe/timeline they'll tie it into?

Its supposed to be part of the main one, not the movies. It takes place 10 years before The Original Series.

I guess they just want to pander to what we know rather than creating new ideas. Im sure Kirk's father or something will pop up and retconned Klingons.

so they'll just limit themselves or risk contradicting TOS.
Shame.

I always felt TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY were seperate universes/timelines. Apparently Roddenberry didn't mind some revisionism so theres inconsistencies between TOS, the Motion Picture and TNG.

They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:
Its supposed to be part of the main one, not the movies. It takes place 10 years before The Original Series.

I guess they just want to pander to what we know rather than creating new ideas. Im sure Kirk's father or something will pop up and retconned Klingons.

so they'll just limit themselves or risk contradicting TOS.
Shame.

I always felt TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY were seperate universes/timelines. Apparently Roddenberry didn't mind some revisionism so theres inconsistencies between TOS, the Motion Picture and TNG.

They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

A very slightly alternate time line maybe?

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:
so they'll just limit themselves or risk contradicting TOS.
Shame.

I always felt TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY were seperate universes/timelines. Apparently Roddenberry didn't mind some revisionism so theres inconsistencies between TOS, the Motion Picture and TNG.

They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

A very slightly alternate time line maybe?

Well, I mean, Star Trek has messed with time a ton of times. The main antagonist of that Spock episode was the daughter of the deceased Security Chief and her Romulan captor after a time warp changed history to create a lasting war between the Federation and the Romulans until the Enterprise's bartender realizing that her time was wrong fixed it by sending the Enterprise C back to it's proper timeline even though they knew it would be destroyed but the chief, knowing she would die anyways joined the crew, thus changing history anyways.

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:
They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

A very slightly alternate time line maybe?

Well, I mean, Star Trek has messed with time a ton of times. The main antagonist of that Spock episode was the daughter of the deceased Security Chief and her Romulan captor after a time warp changed history to create a lasting war between the Federation and the Romulans until the Enterprise's bartender realizing that her time was wrong fixed it by sending the Enterprise C back to it's proper timeline even though they knew it would be destroyed but the chief, knowing she would die anyways joined the crew, thus changing history anyways.

It's obvious you've been rewatching TNG recently. Good summary.

Mr Ink 5000:

Saelune:

Mr Ink 5000:
A very slightly alternate time line maybe?

Well, I mean, Star Trek has messed with time a ton of times. The main antagonist of that Spock episode was the daughter of the deceased Security Chief and her Romulan captor after a time warp changed history to create a lasting war between the Federation and the Romulans until the Enterprise's bartender realizing that her time was wrong fixed it by sending the Enterprise C back to it's proper timeline even though they knew it would be destroyed but the chief, knowing she would die anyways joined the crew, thus changing history anyways.

It's obvious you've been rewatching TNG recently. Good summary.

Not rewatching. But yes, I am currently midway through Season 5, so that Spock episode was recent, but the main episode I referenced I really like, plus I like Tasha Yar and her daughter...cause I think its a fun way to have the actor come back.

Saelune:
changed history to create a lasting war between the Federation and the Romulans

between the Federation and the Klingons, not Romulans

Saelune:
They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

That doesn't make it the exact same continuity. I'm sure all the Evangelion shows/movies have by-and-large the same characters, theme, and general plotline, and yet are not the same continuity.

Sure, it's not as different a continuity as say TNG would be to oh, I dunno, Aliens? Terminator? Sesame Street? (heh)...

Consider the Klingons in TOS vs TNG - they went from these cunning, crafty types to more aggressive, violent, and not-too-bright types (and a sometimes-present fixation on honor). Enterprise tried to pull some fancy retcon-wool over our eyes with that augment-virus silliness, but the truth is, given the time gap between the shows and changes in the creative staff, the continuity has drifted.

That's not to say they're *completely* different continuities, but they aren't exactly the same, either. Think of it like a Venn diagram - TOS and TMP heavily overlap, but are not the exact same. TNG (and DS9/VOY) is (are) on the other side of the TMP circle, overlapping it heavily, and overlapping a bit with TOS. Enterprise would be some weird shape that overlaps more with TNG than TOS.

Or, let me put it another way. Abrams' Trek-shaped thing has a Spock cameo too...and it's TOS's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate in terms of continuity...

(Also Enterprise isn't as bad as people say it is. I've rewatched *all* of the non-Abrams Trek on Netflix and honestly, there's many episodes in TNG that are significantly worse than the typical Enterprise episode. Time-traveling Nazi aliens notwithstanding. Every show has a Jumping the Shark moment....)

Renegrade:

Saelune:
They are very much the same universe. I just recently watched an episode of TNG that featured Spock and Sarek. The TNG pilot had a cameo by Bones.

That doesn't make it the exact same continuity. I'm sure all the Evangelion shows/movies have by-and-large the same characters, theme, and general plotline, and yet are not the same continuity.

Sure, it's not as different a continuity as say TNG would be to oh, I dunno, Aliens? Terminator? Sesame Street? (heh)...

Consider the Klingons in TOS vs TNG - they went from these cunning, crafty types to more aggressive, violent, and not-too-bright types (and a sometimes-present fixation on honor). Enterprise tried to pull some fancy retcon-wool over our eyes with that augment-virus silliness, but the truth is, given the time gap between the shows and changes in the creative staff, the continuity has drifted.

That's not to say they're *completely* different continuities, but they aren't exactly the same, either. Think of it like a Venn diagram - TOS and TMP heavily overlap, but are not the exact same. TNG (and DS9/VOY) is (are) on the other side of the TMP circle, overlapping it heavily, and overlapping a bit with TOS. Enterprise would be some weird shape that overlaps more with TNG than TOS.

Or, let me put it another way. Abrams' Trek-shaped thing has a Spock cameo too...and it's TOS's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate in terms of continuity...

(Also Enterprise isn't as bad as people say it is. I've rewatched *all* of the non-Abrams Trek on Netflix and honestly, there's many episodes in TNG that are significantly worse than the typical Enterprise episode. Time-traveling Nazi aliens notwithstanding. Every show has a Jumping the Shark moment....)

They have established too many direct connections. Spock, Bones, Scottie, and there is even a movie where Picard and Kirk team up.

Klingons are explained...by well, some retconning BS they dont even elaborate on, but the change in Klingons is acknowledged as a rather sudden change that they "dont like talking about". Lazy, but still.

The bastardized Trek movies are only brought in via time/alternate dimension BS.

There is no reason to push this alternate continuity theory between TOS and TNG.

I think I found a Star Trek sequel that I can get behind and support.

 

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