PewDiePie, Firewatch and DMCA

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undeadsuitor:

The Lunatic:

People are treating it like he willfully and actively sought to offend American black people, when in reality, all he really did was use a word he shouldn't during a heated moment in a video game. It just seems very "boo hoo" to me. But, I don't share the same context for the word, to be fair.

I wouldn't say "heated". Have you seen the clip? (Or the clip of when he almost said it again the next day)

He essentially just killed someone and they didn't die as fast as he would have liked (and the same happened the next day)

As someone who plays PUBG it was pretty much the most chill encounter I've ever seen/been a part of. And even then he didn't exclaim it like one would say fuck! or shit!. He specifically used it as a calm description of the person who had the audacity to not die in one shot.

This is no different than him using Nazis or antisemitism as jokes. (Which already cost him a YouTube red channel and a Disney partner ship) this wasn't a slip up, this is a continued trend of him using offensive terms for humor

And that's why my go to word in those situations is "dickcheese" It's out of the blue and it's funny.

RaikuFA:

undeadsuitor:

The Lunatic:

People are treating it like he willfully and actively sought to offend American black people, when in reality, all he really did was use a word he shouldn't during a heated moment in a video game. It just seems very "boo hoo" to me. But, I don't share the same context for the word, to be fair.

I wouldn't say "heated". Have you seen the clip? (Or the clip of when he almost said it again the next day)

He essentially just killed someone and they didn't die as fast as he would have liked (and the same happened the next day)

As someone who plays PUBG it was pretty much the most chill encounter I've ever seen/been a part of. And even then he didn't exclaim it like one would say fuck! or shit!. He specifically used it as a calm description of the person who had the audacity to not die in one shot.

This is no different than him using Nazis or antisemitism as jokes. (Which already cost him a YouTube red channel and a Disney partner ship) this wasn't a slip up, this is a continued trend of him using offensive terms for humor

And that's why my go to word in those situations is "dickcheese" It's out of the blue and it's funny.

I like to use increasingly convuleded forms of heck for the absurdism

The Lunatic:

Well, context is important. Unless you consider stuff like that, there's not an awful lot to discuss. It's just assumptions and conjecture.

I mean, I can only speak from a European perspective, PewDiePie is also European, so, there may be some overlap here, or there may not. This isn't some defense.

But, for the most part, I really can't understand why people lose their shit so much about the utterance of a single word. There's no history with it in Europe, we have our own words, and obviously our history is very difference than those in America.

As such, we hear the N-word on the radio, we hear it on American TV shows, and there's never a discussion of it, there's never a "Here is why these people can say this, but, you can't". We know it's taboo, sure, but, there's absolutely no weight to it.

I agree that context is important, and I don't blame folks in non-English speaking European regions, for example, for not knowing the full history and context of the n-word. But here's the thing: ignorance isn't an excuse. You DO know the word is bad, at the very least. If folks don't understand ***why*** people lose their collective shit when it's uttered, then I'd suggest instead of REPEATING THE WORD that folks take the time to understand the word's history, meaning, and cultural effect before co-opting it as a generic insult to prove what awesome fucking edge lords they are.

The Lunatic:

It's like finding out about the word "Mat" in Russian. It's a word so offensive it's banned from all Russian cinema. People lose their jobs for uttering the word and using it in public can actually get you arrested. But, to you and I, English speakers, with no history of Russian culture, there's absolutely nothing to it.

Is he aware it's offensive? Yeah, most likely, it would be naive to say otherwise. Is he aware how offensive it is to Americans? Probably not, honestly.

Okay, here's a good example to illustrate my point. I had no idea about the word "Mat" in Russian. And to be honest, I'm still struggling to understand the context of the word and why it's deemed so bad in Russia that it requires an outright ban.

But here's the thing: now that I know it's bad, I'm not going to go on a Russian-speaking livestream and scream "What a fucking Mat!" I'm not going to start throwing the word around, in anger or otherwise, and use my ignorance of the history/context as an excuse.

StatusNil:

Exley97:

4. What you wrote is an extremely long way of saying that YOU CHOSE to be offended by those articles and Tweets. Many people who consider themselves gamers were not offended (probably because they knew the insults in question were being directed at GG participants and not generic gamers). In fact, millions of gamers WERE NOT offended by statements, or at least weren't offended to the point where they became active participants in GG, and those that did are in the extreme minority of offended parties. I'm not arguing the two situations are the same. My point is that, according to your previous statement that "Offense is taken, not given," you made the choice to be offended by those articles and Tweets.

If that's the case, it was the correct choice. A massive campaign to reconfigure the entertainment industry in order to exclude people who lack social graces (what with their "mushroom hats" and standing in peasant lines) and so embarrass the hipster wannabes by mere association is arguably pretty fucking offensive. Meanwhile, it's not like PewDiePie deliberately set out to convince everyone on YouTube to collaborate in alienating any segment of the audience.

First..."A massive campaign to recognifgure the entertainment industry"? Is this how you're describing GamerGate now? That is something else.

Second, and more importantly....you still chose to be offended. And you're still choosing to obssess over the "mushroom hats" insult years later. This is indicative of what I like to call "gamer correctness." It's like political correctness, only more narrow, because you can pretty much say ANYTHING you want -- the n-word, the c-word, anything -- to anyone in any context as long as you don't assail gamers in any way because gamers are beyond reproach.

Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

I guess ignorance is a perfectly reasonable excuse, I mean, it's not like anyone has access to some sort of huge global repository of information or anything...

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

First, thanks for sharing your perspective on the matter and being open about your use of the n-word.
Second, a couple questions. Is your country English speaking or not? I'm curious because I've heard different views of how well known this racial slur is depending on if people are, for example, living in the UK versus Greece or Portugal or Denmark. Also, when you used the n-word, was it as an insult toward strangers or used in more of a non-serious manner among friends and acquaintances? Again, just curious, not looking to indict you.

It's real world clashing with an Internet subculture (and the real world winning). It's Felix's growing pains, getting too big to continue being an Internet underdog (compared to Hollywood celebrities), and not knowing how to stop thinking like the big fish in the small pond now that he's facing the ocean.

McMarbles:

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

I guess ignorance is a perfectly reasonable excuse, I mean, it's not like anyone has access to some sort of huge global repository of information or anything...

Although from an American perspective how offensive or inoffensive this or that statement should be is probably obvious, you must realize how time consuming it would be for the average non American to research all aspects of your history so we can be sure we won't upset you on the internet. It's also kind of nonsense because popular American media lives and dies by mocking or misrepresenting other cultures so you're asking us to do something for you that you actively refuse to do for anyone else. I don't want that to sound angry or whiney - it's just an observation on how Americans seem to function. It's hard to really even be angry about it because honestly when you aren't doing it to us you're doing it to yourselves. It seems like the only people you hate more than foreigners is yourselves if your entertainment and news is anything to go by.

Exley97:

First, thanks for sharing your perspective on the matter and being open about your use of the n-word.
Second, a couple questions. Is your country English speaking or not? I'm curious because I've heard different views of how well known this racial slur is depending on if people are, for example, living in the UK versus Greece or Portugal or Denmark. Also, when you used the n-word, was it as an insult toward strangers or used in more of a non-serious manner among friends and acquaintances? Again, just curious, not looking to indict you.

Living in Denmark, I was faily well aware of the meaning and intent behind the word "Nigger", and its Danish equivalent, from a young age.
Nobody here openly says that word unless they intend to be racist against Africans or people with dark skin.
You'd never get away with using ignorance to excuse frivolous use of that word here, and I doubt it is much different in Sweden.

Tayh:

Exley97:

First, thanks for sharing your perspective on the matter and being open about your use of the n-word.
Second, a couple questions. Is your country English speaking or not? I'm curious because I've heard different views of how well known this racial slur is depending on if people are, for example, living in the UK versus Greece or Portugal or Denmark. Also, when you used the n-word, was it as an insult toward strangers or used in more of a non-serious manner among friends and acquaintances? Again, just curious, not looking to indict you.

Living in Denmark, I was faily well aware of the meaning and intent behind the word "Nigger", and its Danish equivalent, from a young age.
Nobody here openly says that word unless they intend to be racist against Africans or people with dark skin.
You'd never get away with using ignorance to excuse frivolous use of that word here, and I doubt it is much different in Sweden.

Thanks for the input. I mentioned Denmark since it's one of the few non-English European countries I've spent a significant amount of time in (Sweden as well, but to a much lesser extent) and the people I stayed/spent time with said essentially the same thing (and they were all fluent in English too). But that was years ago, and it was a small sample size so I wasn't sure if things had changed more recently.

And apropos of nothing, Copenhagen rules. I fucking love that city.

McMarbles:

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

I guess ignorance is a perfectly reasonable excuse, I mean, it's not like anyone has access to some sort of huge global repository of information or anything...

Like what, the internet? That thing that wasn't even really a thing back in the early 90's, that thing I only got access to in the near the end of the 90's? That huge global repository? Also, by your own logic, there is no excuse for having a show, in 2017, literately titled "Gypsy"

Exley97:

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

First, thanks for sharing your perspective on the matter and being open about your use of the n-word.
Second, a couple questions. Is your country English speaking or not? I'm curious because I've heard different views of how well known this racial slur is depending on if people are, for example, living in the UK versus Greece or Portugal or Denmark. Also, when you used the n-word, was it as an insult toward strangers or used in more of a non-serious manner among friends and acquaintances? Again, just curious, not looking to indict you.

I'm from the Netherlands, so no, and yes since the majority of us do speak English to some degree. And no, it's wasn't really that we used it as a slur, I mean, we didn't understand it's meaning really, so it was more emulating how we heard African Americans interact with one another. This was due to the fact that the only exposure we had to that word, among others, was through American pop culture like movies, tv shows and radio. Note, that this was before the internet really took off and everyone and their dog had access to it (yeah I'm old, now get off my lawn). It's also not something you learn from your parents or in school as it has little significance in Dutch. Sure, we had lessons on slavery, being a former slave trading nation and all, but just that what was relevant in relation to Dutch history. And sure, topics like racism got brought up in school, but again, in relation to what was most relevant to us. Racism in Europe isn't really the same as it is in the US seeing as race based racism is actually the least common form of racism. But this might be due to a difference in definition, as we include ethnic and nationality in our definition, though technically it's racial discrimination, but that is what we commonly refer to as racism.

The N-word (i'll use that from now one) wasn't really a thing you heard in our own black communities as most came from former Dutch colonies, which has a fairly different culture from that of African Americans.

Michel Henzel:
Also, by your own logic, there is no excuse for having a show, in 2017, literately titled "Gypsy"

This must be a European thing. I know a few people of Romani ethnicity (well, three actually, all siblings) and they all use the term "Gypsy" to describe themselves when talking to you in casual conversation.

jademunky:

Michel Henzel:
Also, by your own logic, there is no excuse for having a show, in 2017, literately titled "Gypsy"

This must be a European thing. I know a few people of Romani ethnicity (well, three actually, all siblings) and they all use the term "Gypsy" to describe themselves when talking to you in casual conversation.

It probably is, but here it is indeed a racial slur, you could say it's the G-word for Europe I suppose. Roma aren't viewed in a very positive light, and gypsy is primarily used as an insult. It's basically calling them the N-word to a degree. So it's a big No-no to say.

EvilRoy:

McMarbles:

Michel Henzel:
Can't say it bothers me since I'm white and European, so the word has little to no meaning, even though European Americans seem the most angry about it. Then again, to be fair, it also makes me go "Dayum" that Americans have racist af show titles like gypsy wedding or whatever that reality tv show was called, it would be like Europe having nigger wedding as a reality tv show. But I get it, it doesn't hold the same weight as a racist slur as it does in Europe.

And to be fair again, as a kid, me and my friends said things like nigger all the time, cause it just sounded cool. I mean, no one ever taught us it was appearently a bad word till we finally learned it on our own, much later in life.

I guess ignorance is a perfectly reasonable excuse, I mean, it's not like anyone has access to some sort of huge global repository of information or anything...

Although from an American perspective how offensive or inoffensive this or that statement should be is probably obvious, you must realize how time consuming it would be for the average non American to research all aspects of your history so we can be sure we won't upset you on the internet. It's also kind of nonsense because popular American media lives and dies by mocking or misrepresenting other cultures so you're asking us to do something for you that you actively refuse to do for anyone else. I don't want that to sound angry or whiney - it's just an observation on how Americans seem to function. It's hard to really even be angry about it because honestly when you aren't doing it to us you're doing it to yourselves. It seems like the only people you hate more than foreigners is yourselves if your entertainment and news is anything to go by.

Or you could, you know, Google "racial slurs in America".

Considering that's where most of his audience is and all.

altnameJag:
Or you could, you know, Google "racial slurs in America".

Considering that's where most of his audience is and all.

That's just playing favorites for the Americans, and it doesn't make sense if we're really going to require people to be globally sensitive. I may as well ask you to run your post through Google in the same way for all 195 countries and the several hundred individual ethnic groups that comprise them. After all anyone from any culture or location could be reading it right now.

If the point is to actually be racially sensitive, then the dubious American majority (always assumed when the media is English language for some reason) is just part of it. You don't get to say "eh fuck the filthy Roma they'll never see this show" just because the majority audience is American, then turn around and demand your sensibilities be considered every time someone speaks English.

EvilRoy:
Snip

You know, it's really not that hard to adjust to make sure you're not saying things that are offensive in other cultures. AT4W is a good example. One of the earlier gags Linkara had was that he refered to heroes as having a "heroic spaz attack." He then learned that, in UK, spastic can be used to mean retarded. He doesn't use that gag anymore. And I can't help but notice that I've never really noticed that many European youtubers spouting off racial slurs that would be considered offensive over here. I guess they just know better from experience, or they've done the research. Either way, it seems to be well within their capabilities.

erttheking:

EvilRoy:
Snip

You know, it's really not that hard to adjust to make sure you're not saying things that are offensive in other cultures. AT4W is a good example. One of the earlier gags Linkara had was that he refered to heroes as having a "heroic spas attack." He then learned that, in UK, spastic can be used to mean retarded. He doesn't use that gag anymore. And I can't help but notice that I've never really noticed that many European youtubers spouting off racial slurs that would be considered offensive over here. I guess they just know better from experience, or they've done the research. Either way, it seems to be well within their capabilities.

What's bothering me here is that there is always this underlying assumption that I should have know this would offend them because I should know everything about them despite living in a different part of the planet and never interacting with any of them. Substitute any culture for them, in a greater than 80% incidence you will be correct for most humans on earth. If we cut out the hyper connectivity of Europe and parts of asia you could up that to 95%.

Linkara learned from experience. Cool. He did not exhaustively poll every English speaking country to avoid the original issue, because that would be insane. Pdp is learning from experience. Cool. Do not expect him and all other English speaking YouTube's to automatically known and understand all American social standards.

EvilRoy:

altnameJag:
Or you could, you know, Google "racial slurs in America".

Considering that's where most of his audience is and all.

That's just playing favorites for the Americans, and it doesn't make sense if we're really going to require people to be globally sensitive. I may as well ask you to run your post through Google in the same way for all 195 countries and the several hundred individual ethnic groups that comprise them. After all anyone from any culture or location could be reading it right now.

If the point is to actually be racially sensitive, then the dubious American majority (always assumed when the media is English language for some reason) is just part of it. You don't get to say "eh fuck the filthy Roma they'll never see this show" just because the majority audience is American, then turn around and demand your sensibilities be considered every time someone speaks English.

its not really favorites when hes being hosted by an american company and has worked with american companies (like disney) in the past

ironically, being dropped by said companies after his last racist slip

this isn't a first strike

EvilRoy:
Snip

There really isn't. A basic knowledge of cultures you plan to work with is all you really need. I mean REALLY. If you're looking up a list of not to dos when it comes to working with other countries, extremely offensive racial slurs shouldn't be hard to find. It's not like this is an obscure word, it's pretty mainstream, and it's just as mainstream what people think of it.

There's kind of a basic aspect that you really should know when it comes to working officially with other countries. Like the Austin Powers movie, the Spy who Shagged me. They had to censor that in the UK, because it'd be like saying The Spy who Fucked me if it wasn't. PDP is not a scrappy, brick and mortar youtuber, he's the biggest youtubers in the world, who as undeadsuitor pointed out, has worked with American companies in the past. Once you start officially working with big corporations in other countries, you really should know the ABCs of working in that country.

EvilRoy:

Linkara learned from experience. Cool. He did not exhaustively poll every English speaking country to avoid the original issue, because that would be insane. Pdp is learning from experience. Cool. Do not expect him and all other English speaking YouTube's to automatically known and understand all American social standards.

In his apology, Pewdiepie *literally* said the following: "I said the worst word I could possibly think of."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLdxuaxaQwc

If he knows it's that bad, then doesn't that indicate he does, in fact, at least partially grasp the gravity and context of that word?

erttheking:

EvilRoy:
Snip

There really isn't. A basic knowledge of cultures you plan to work with is all you really need. I mean REALLY. If you're looking up a list of not to dos when it comes to working with other countries, extremely offensive racial slurs shouldn't be hard to find. It's not like this is an obscure word, it's pretty mainstream, and it's just as mainstream what people think of it.

There's kind of a basic aspect that you really should know when it comes to working officially with other countries. Like the Austin Powers movie, the Spy who Shagged me. They had to censor that in the UK, because it'd be like saying The Spy who Fucked me if it wasn't. PDP is not a scrappy, brick and mortar youtuber, he's the biggest youtubers in the world, who as undeadsuitor pointed out, has worked with American companies in the past. Once you start officially working with big corporations in other countries, you really should know the ABCs of working in that country.

When you're working with a company, they do it for you. Seriously. Most large firms will outright edit what you provide and/Or send you a list of acceptable topics which will range from cultural sensitivity to the borderline arbitrary. I've done it with firms on Japan, and I honestly have no idea which were which. If I dropped a bomb I might have realized what I said was a slur based on reactions, but since I wanted to get paid I never bothered to test it. On my own separately I've tried to ask but without context you get nowhere and it's hard to add this to a personal lexicon without tv helping anyway.

It's easy to simplify this stuff into a "Do this don't do this" list and understand the intents behind those statements when you are immersed in that culture but from an outside perspective it becomes easier and easier to believe it's just bullshit as you encounter more and more. A good American example is the n-word (following from mike). You will tell me that I should never say it. Ok. Then I turn on American television and I learn that people say it a lot if it's a police drama. Then I will learn there are a series of contexts wherein it becomes acceptable for certain people to say it and different contexts for other people to say it with an accent. Then if I turn on a comedy I'll learn ANOTHER set of rules, but I will take them less seriously due to the nature of the media. But I could also watch interviews with celebrities and hear it a lot there too with different rules. So I'll be sitting here wondering if I'm going to have it said to me by someone allowed to and how I should react because I'm not allowed to say it. Should I be offended in that case? Do I tell them that my skin tone is from a different part of the world so I can't say it back?

Blanket rules make some sort of sense in really specific context but in general it's just about useless for understanding.

Exley97:

EvilRoy:

Linkara learned from experience. Cool. He did not exhaustively poll every English speaking country to avoid the original issue, because that would be insane. Pdp is learning from experience. Cool. Do not expect him and all other English speaking YouTube's to automatically known and understand all American social standards.

In his apology, Pewdiepie *literally* said the following: "I said the worst word I could possibly think of."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLdxuaxaQwc

If he knows it's that bad, then doesn't that indicate he does, in fact, at least partially grasp the gravity and context of that word?

Maybe? Or he was told it was the worst word and acted based on that without real understanding. Or maybe he's full of shit. I don't know.

I'm just speaking as a dude who's done this and how bizarre it can seem to an outsider. If I had the list from the Japan thing I would tell you a few to give you an example of how beyond your cultural understanding it can be. One, translated, had to do with a specific type of rush-mat, like a doormat made out of grass. It was on the list but it it could have been anything from a competitors product to the worst insult imaginable as far as I know. It would not blow my mind if it was functionally similar to calling someone's daughter a prostitute.

EvilRoy:
Snip

Then PDP must have missed a freaking memo. He worked with Disney and managed to botch it.

When it comes to saying the n-bomb? Yeah, it is. It really is. Exley pointed out that PDP said "the worst word he could think of" so can we stop treating him like he's just a poor boy who said a word that he didn't understand? Oh boy, trying to bring up all the hypocrisies of saying certain words. Something that kind of is undermined by PDP saying that he said the worst word he could think of. Also I struggle to remember that many comedians and celebrities in interviews that dropped the n-bomb. I can think of exactly one time George Carlin did it, and it was to make a point about racism. As for interviews, I can think of nothing. The only point left after that is a police drama, and considering that I assume you're talking about a nitty gritty inner city kind of drama, well, I hope you give PDP enough credit to recognize the difference between what's said in a very run down and violent slum and what's considered acceptable in poilte society. Seriously, you're kind of treating him like he's a brain dead idiot.

The specific context of "don't say words you know are terrible words" comes to mind.

erttheking:

EvilRoy:
Snip

Then PDP must have missed a freaking memo. He worked with Disney and managed to botch it.

When it comes to saying the n-bomb? Yeah, it is. It really is. Exley pointed out that PDP said "the worst word he could think of" so can we stop treating him like he's just a poor boy who said a word that he didn't understand? Oh boy, trying to bring up all the hypocrisies of saying certain words. Something that kind of is undermined by PDP saying that he said the worst word he could think of. Also I struggle to remember that many comedians and celebrities in interviews that dropped the n-bomb. I can think of exactly one time George Carlin did it, and it was to make a point about racism. As for interviews, I can think of nothing. The only point left after that is a police drama, and considering that I assume you're talking about a nitty gritty inner city kind of drama, well, I hope you give PDP enough credit to recognize the difference between what's said in a very run down and violent slum and what's considered acceptable in poilte society. Seriously, you're kind of treating him like he's a brain dead idiot.

The specific context of "don't say words you know are terrible words" comes to mind.

Samuel L Jackson in the Django interview. Seriously, I learned a lot from that one. Also, our outside understanding of American culture is almost 100% tv based.
We know it isn't "real" but it must be some kind of representation of you. The rest of you post is just kind of blowing up over some other stuff, so I'm just going to draw you back to my original post here, that was a response to a dude insisting outsiders understand your social mores because it should be obvious and easy. It isn't, and the more you push the more I'm certain I DON'T understand.

EvilRoy:
Snip

Oh. So one example. One interview and one comedian. I hope you'll forgive me if I feel like that isn't enough for someone to be saying "I have no reasonable way to understand the meaning of this word, it's all too confusing." Plus, you know, like with Carlin, Django was a movie about racism? And tell me, in those tv shows you watch, it's mainly black people referring to each other with that word, right? You never see white people using the term and when they do they get a negative reaction right? I mean, it should be pretty self explanatory.

"The rest of your post is just blowing up about other stuff" can be used to accurately describe your tangent about tv, comedians and movies. How about we keep it simple then? When in doubt, DON'T! That's not just for using slurs, that's really just an approach you should have to life. If you're not certain it'd be considered socially acceptable, JUST! DON'T!

And here's the thing. This discussion is not about what you understand. It's about what PDP understood, and he flat out admitted he was trying to say the worst possible word. Evidently, he managed to wrap his head around the concept.

erttheking:

EvilRoy:
Snip

Oh. So one example. One interview and one comedian. I hope you'll forgive me if I feel like that isn't enough for someone to be saying "I have no reasonable way to understand the meaning of this word, it's all too confusing." Plus, you know, like with Carlin, Django was a movie about racism? And tell me, in those tv shows you watch, it's mainly black people referring to each other with that word, right? You never see white people using the term and when they do they get a negative reaction right? I mean, it should be pretty self explanatory.

"The rest of your post is just blowing up about other stuff" can be used to accurately describe your tangent about tv, comedians and movies. How about we keep it simple then? When in doubt, DON'T! That's not just for using slurs, that's really just an approach you should have to life. If you're not certain it'd be considered socially acceptable, JUST! DON'T!

And here's the thing. This discussion is not about what you understand. It's about what PDP understood, and he flat out admitted he was trying to say the worst possible word. Evidently, he managed to wrap his head around the concept.

Ai ai the escapist thing. I can't just give you an example I have to come up with an exhaustive list of examples, explain them all and defend them against your cross examination. No. I do not care about this conversation as a person, it's just a thing I'm involved in that you inserted yourself into. And no, the white guy does not always get a negative reaction, and the black people sometimes say it differently, and this, and that. There are a lot of tv shows.

The conversation IS about the expectation of cross cultural understanding! It was a response to a dude talking about that specifically in response to another dude talking about It! It is a side conversation that (attempted) to happen in the thread about another, different and specific case! You just sort of did your best to drag it back to the thread title so kudos for attempting to right a potential derail, but it's not the context of what I was actually speaking in. I didn't even realize you didn't know that until this post. Good Lord no wonder you seem so confusing and angry.

EvilRoy:
Snip

I would have thought that me pointing out an example on the comedian front and then not thinking that it was enough would have been enough to show that I don't consider one isolated example to be strong evidence that we apparently drop the n-bomb a lot. Because as someone who lives in this country, I can tell you, we don't. So yes. I find your example inadequate. "I do not care about this conversation as a person." Ok. This matters why? I mean, why do you assume I give anything resembling a crap to how you view this conversation? If you don't care about it, just stop talking to me. No skin off my back. And while that point about cop shows is all fine and dandy, there's still the issue that it's showing the hard life of the inner city, and I still fail to see how anything done in that show is acceptable to emulate.

Very well then, my bad.

EvilRoy:

Exley97:

EvilRoy:

Linkara learned from experience. Cool. He did not exhaustively poll every English speaking country to avoid the original issue, because that would be insane. Pdp is learning from experience. Cool. Do not expect him and all other English speaking YouTube's to automatically known and understand all American social standards.

In his apology, Pewdiepie *literally* said the following: "I said the worst word I could possibly think of."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLdxuaxaQwc

If he knows it's that bad, then doesn't that indicate he does, in fact, at least partially grasp the gravity and context of that word?

Maybe? Or he was told it was the worst word and acted based on that without real understanding. Or maybe he's full of shit. I don't know.

I'm just speaking as a dude who's done this and how bizarre it can seem to an outsider. If I had the list from the Japan thing I would tell you a few to give you an example of how beyond your cultural understanding it can be. One, translated, had to do with a specific type of rush-mat, like a doormat made out of grass. It was on the list but it it could have been anything from a competitors product to the worst insult imaginable as far as I know. It would not blow my mind if it was functionally similar to calling someone's daughter a prostitute.

I get all that, but 1) Pewdiepie isn't some random dude, 2) he's run into trouble before and you'd think he'd be more careful, and 3) he had an agreement with an *American* company (Disney) and had huge sums of money at stake, so there was certainly incentive to watch his language and perhaps study up on what you can and cannot say in "the heat of the moment."

Also, yes, *maybe* he doesn't have the full understanding of the word, despite what he said in the apology. But after the Nazi/Jews jokes, I'm not sure he gets the benefit of the doubt.

erttheking:

EvilRoy:
Snip

I would have thought that me pointing out an example on the comedian front and then not thinking that it was enough would have been enough to show that I don't consider one isolated example to be strong evidence that we apparently drop the n-bomb a lot. Because as someone who lives in this country, I can tell you, we don't. So yes. I find your example inadequate. "I do not care about this conversation as a person." Ok. This matters why? I mean, why do you assume I give anything resembling a crap to how you view this conversation? If you don't care about it, just stop talking to me. No skin off my back. And while that point about cop shows is all fine and dandy, there's still the issue that it's showing the hard life of the inner city, and I still fail to see how anything done in that show is acceptable to emulate.

Very well then, my bad.

No it's not, asking for significant numbers of examples and then cross examining is a method for shutting down a conversation by making it more effort than it is worth to continue. It has nothing to do with learning and less to do with how a convetsation would occur in person. It would be like me insisting you prove that you don't say it much. Provide me with a statistical analysis based on a random cross section of day time television comparing the incidence of all insults and slurs to prove you don't say it that much. That is a master's level question, you would at least get a paper out of it, but by law of the escapist you made an assertive claim and I am therefore allowed to demand you prove it to my exacting and needlessly obtuse requirements. Me not caring is not an attempted indictment of you it's a statement that I wanted to have a conversation like a regular human rather than some kind of creature that gains nutrition by making people not want to talk to it.

EvilRoy:
It's also kind of nonsense because popular American media lives and dies by mocking or misrepresenting other cultures so you're asking us to do something for you that you actively refuse to do for anyone else.

So the entirety of American culture must be judged by its lowest common denominator? Do I get to do the same to your country? Do I get to say and do shit that is offensive or taboo in your culture where you guys can see it and then hide behind the excuse that I can't be fucked to read an audience?

jademunky:

Michel Henzel:
Also, by your own logic, there is no excuse for having a show, in 2017, literately titled "Gypsy"

This must be a European thing. I know a few people of Romani ethnicity (well, three actually, all siblings) and they all use the term "Gypsy" to describe themselves when talking to you in casual conversation.

So, from your sample size of one family, you conclude that all (or even more than a tiny minority) Romani are okay with it?

That's basically "I have a black friend".

I can't help but laugh at people being like "He's a Sweede, he didn't know any better!" He lives in fucking Brighton. How the hell could you possibly live in England and not know that dropping a hard N in a livestream was gonna upset people?

Like, if I holler out "sshebal" in the middle of one of my classes I'm still going to get a reaming from my Principal, even though the word has no cultural context for me. If I tell some old man on the bus "yeot meok-eo" he's gonna get rightly pissed because I said something bad to him in his native language (even though literally translated it means "eat taffy"). It's not up to everyone else to teach me what not to say and when just like it's not everyone else's responsibility to teach that Goddamned idiot Pewdiepie that saying what he said is ignorant and terrible.

Exley97:

The Lunatic:

It's like finding out about the word "Mat" in Russian. It's a word so offensive it's banned from all Russian cinema. People lose their jobs for uttering the word and using it in public can actually get you arrested. But, to you and I, English speakers, with no history of Russian culture, there's absolutely nothing to it.

Is he aware it's offensive? Yeah, most likely, it would be naive to say otherwise. Is he aware how offensive it is to Americans? Probably not, honestly.

Okay, here's a good example to illustrate my point. I had no idea about the word "Mat" in Russian. And to be honest, I'm still struggling to understand the context of the word and why it's deemed so bad in Russia that it requires an outright ban.

But here's the thing: now that I know it's bad, I'm not going to go on a Russian-speaking livestream and scream "What a fucking Mat!" I'm not going to start throwing the word around, in anger or otherwise, and use my ignorance of the history/context as an excuse.

So, in Russia, if there's a character named Matt (a perfectly normal name in the West) in a movie, do they censor it?

BeetleManiac:

EvilRoy:
It's also kind of nonsense because popular American media lives and dies by mocking or misrepresenting other cultures so you're asking us to do something for you that you actively refuse to do for anyone else.

So the entirety of American culture must be judged by its lowest common denominator? Do I get to do the same to your country? Do I get to say and odo shit that is offensive or taboo in your culture where you guys can see it and then hide behind the excuse that I can't be fucked to read an audience?

... You already do so I'm not sure why you're asking for permission now.

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