Article: "Why I Think GamerGate Won"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4
 

Ogoid:

Parrikle:

Considerably more harassment was claimed than that, even in this initial wave, and it seems in keeping with what we know was posted to Wizardchan. Considering, of course, that Wizardchan was not archived internally, so it is impossible to find the full extent now, what archives do exist show harassment.

It is amazing how sometimes we are told about things that are happening online, even on sites we would never go to normally.

I don't doubt she got some actual harassment once things kicked off, but as I recall, those two posts - that were, once again, posted in an obscure imageboard and not imposed on her in any way - were all that was offered as proof of her "harassment", here and elsewhere.

It was a lot more than "some actual harassment once things kicked off". Part of my difficulty with this is that, while I agree simply claiming harassment is not enough to prove harassment, there was a huge wave of harassment directed at Quinn. I know, because I was one many people who was watching it happen. But we get this revisionist history that there was no real harassment, or it was "mildly worded", or it was just "some" harassment that occurred, or it was her faking harassment to earn victimhood. The same accusations that are thrown at Sarkeesian and, it seems, almost anyone else who claims to have experienced similar harassment in the industry. It doesn't help.

With Quinn and Wizardchan, we know she was harassed because - if nothing else - archive.org captured a small amount of it. We know she claimed it went further, and that people on Wizardchan were encouraged to continue it on other venues (specifically Tumblr). While I'm not inclined to automatically assume that it happened outside of what we see in the archives, it is fully consistent with what we've seen before and since. So yes, we can quibble about what constitutes proof, but given that Wizardchan itself didn't archive old posts, and that no-one recorded the phone calls, we're left asking if it was likely rather than proven, and the answer to that seems to be yes.

Which is largely moot, because while she may or may not have been extensively harassed via Wizardchan, our interest is mostly in the harassment she received after Gjoni's post.

Parrikle:

Sorry. I was sure I read the line "since posts there are anonymous there's no way to verify whether she tried to victimize herself".

You did. You just interpreted it to imply absolutes where there was no need to.

I never used the word must. My wording implies a possibility, not a certainty.

Dalsyne:

Parrikle:

Sorry. I was sure I read the line "since posts there are anonymous there's no way to verify whether she tried to victimize herself".

You did. You just interpreted it to imply absolutes where there was no need to.

I never used the word must. My wording implies a possibility, not a certainty.

Ok. Suggesting that she went to Wizardchan and faked the harassment about herself without any evidence that it was anything other than it appeared to be is a rubbish argument.

Dalsyne:

Parrikle:

Sorry. I was sure I read the line "since posts there are anonymous there's no way to verify whether she tried to victimize herself".

You did. You just interpreted it to imply absolutes where there was no need to.

I never used the word must. My wording implies a possibility, not a certainty.

But you also described her as an industry socialite who liked victimizing herself. I initially misinterpreted that to mean "professional victim" referring to her having a patreon account but, in hindsight, it seems that you were stating in that post that she harassed herself.

You said it twice in a single thread, one would think you have some reason for assuming this beyond "well, anything is possible."

Parrikle:

Ok. Suggesting that she went to Wizardchan and faked the harassment about herself without any evidence that it was anything other than it appeared to be is a rubbish argument.

It's not an argument, it's an observation. I was recalling what happened, not making judgements or "statements".

jademunky:

But you also described her as an industry socialite who liked victimizing herself. I initially misinterpreted that to mean "professional victim" referring to her having a patreon account but, in hindsight, it seems that you were stating in that post that she harassed herself.

You said it twice in a single thread, one would think you have some reason for assuming this beyond "well, anything is possible."

I can't prove she harassed herself but I'm allowed to think she could have. After all, she's dishonest and shady, and I have the zoepost and the failed DMCA strike against mundanematt to back me up.

Dalsyne:
It's not an argument, it's an observation. I was recalling what happened, not making judgements or "statements"...

I can't prove she harassed herself but I'm allowed to think she could have. After all, she's dishonest and shady, and I have the zoepost and the failed DMCA strike against mundanematt to back me up.

People lead an argument with their best. This is the best you've got in support of the accusation that she harassed herself? Your best defense is that you're allowed to think it?

Dalsyne:

I can't prove she harassed herself but I'm allowed to think she could have. After all, she's dishonest and shady, and I have the zoepost and the failed DMCA strike against mundanematt to back me up.

The zoepost? Don't tell me you actually read that thing. Not cool, that was none of your business.

BeetleManiac:

People lead an argument with their best. This is the best you've got in support of the accusation that she harassed herself? Your best defense is that you're allowed to think it?

"It's not an argument"

"I'm not making judgements"

"I never used the word must"

"There's no way to verify"

BeetleManiac, your grasp of comprehension is tenuous at best.

jademunky:

The zoepost? Don't tell me you actually read that thing. Not cool, that was none of your business.

Turns out I'm not very good when it comes to keeping things sacred. You'll forgive me for partaking in such forbidden knowledge.

Dalsyne:
Turns out I'm not very good when it comes to keeping things sacred. You'll forgive me for partaking in such forbidden knowledge.

Not me that needs to be doing the forgiving for it. As for sacred, I'd settle for not being morally complicit in the bitter revenge a stalker.

jademunky:

Not me that needs to be doing the forgiving for it. As for sacred, I'd settle for not being morally complicit in the bitter revenge a stalker.

I had a choice: get my information from second-hand sources that have all intentions of muddling the facts, or see everything for myself.

Be self-righteous all you want. I care about the truth.

Dalsyne:
"I'm not making judgements"

"I never used the word must"

"There's no way to verify"

BeetleManiac, your grasp of comprehension is tenuous at best.

You're bullshitting me. You're insistent that Quinn's harassment is a false flag. And the best defense you can come up with is, "Nobody can stop me from thinking this." You clearly want me and everyone else to agree with you, otherwise you wouldn't be flogging this dead horse 3 years later. Yet you flinch every time you're asked to provide some substance. Do you really believe that you're pulling one over on us? Do you really think that we can't see through this?

Dalsyne:

jademunky:

Not me that needs to be doing the forgiving for it. As for sacred, I'd settle for not being morally complicit in the bitter revenge a stalker.

I had a choice: get my information from second-hand sources that have all intentions of muddling the facts, or see everything for myself.

Be self-righteous all you want. I care about the truth.

But you just assume it to be factual with no way to verify if any if it actually is. This is just a diatribe from someone who knew her for all of 6 months.

Even if every word of it was true, what value is any of it and what purpose are you reading it for? Not for reasons of journalistic integrity since that zoe post was not about that. The only reason I'm left with for reading it is to reinforce a personal need to believe that someone is a horrible person.

BeetleManiac:

You're bullshitting me. You're insistent that Quinn's harassment is a false flag. And the best defense you can come up with is, "Nobody can stop me from thinking this." You clearly want me and everyone else to agree with you, otherwise you wouldn't be flogging this dead horse 3 years later. Yet you flinch every time you're asked to provide some substance. Do you really believe that you're pulling one over on us? Do you really think that we can't see through this?

I think at this point you're bullshitting yourself.

On the "flogging a dead horse": the conversation steered into GG history and since everyone here likes to put me on the defensive, I had to explain a few things. I don't really want to talk about Quinn.

And yes I want people to agree with me. I'm amazed this is even an accusation. If I didn't, I would either be wasting my time or deliberately having an unproductive conversation where I just stroke my ego and try to call people idiots without the mods noticing. Which is, by the way, what you're doing.

Do you realize your argument is based on a misrepresentation of my position? I never flinched. I simply refused to entertain your strawmen. I understand this is inconvenient to you, and I don't care. I will not defend things I have not said, nor implied, nor agreed with, end of story.

jademunky:

But you just assume it to be factual

No.

Do you understand what being informed means? I can't have journalistic integrity, I'm not a journalist.

The only reason I would willingly, deliberately keep myself from reading things about a person is if I was biased in favor of that person.

Four pages and I still have no idea what, if anything, GamerGate won. I'm beginning to the think it may have been a free small fries at Five Guys.

McMarbles:
Four pages and I still have no idea what, if anything, GamerGate won. I'm beginning to the think it may have been a free small fries at Five Guys.

Well, they won a top 3 spot on any "greatest gaming controversies" listicle from now to the foreseeable future.

Dalsyne:
I think at this point you're bullshitting yourself.

And I think you're projecting so hard I could point you at a wall and screen The Avengers. We can play this game or you can start being honest. Your call.

Do you realize your argument is based on a misrepresentation of my position?

But instead of showing me I'm wrong, you just insist that I'm wrong. Nobody is making you do this, kid. You choose to get shitty with people for not having positive opinions of Gamergate. You choose to bring up these conspiracy theories that Quinn doxxed herself for attention. Don't get mad at us when you put your own hand in a bear trap.

I guess I can say GamerGate "won" because the early wave did make some differences and nowadays the movement is talked less about my people who supported it and more about people whining about it and people who disagreed with them in the first place.

Had a couple of minor "victories" (like "talked one company into dropping advertising on one site for like three minutes") early on, now pretty much irrelevant and mostly reviled when spoken of at all. Sounds like the definition of winning to me!

The only reason we're even still talking about it here is because every once in a while, Netscape posts a topic full of disingenuous leading questions.

Netscape:
GamerGate supporter and Hugo Award nominee, Kukuruyo, recently wrote a blog post explaining why he thinks GamerGate won. The article was fairly well received on both KotakuInAction and on the GamerGate hashtag. Kukuruyo also briefly touched upon the election, accusing both the media and Donald Trump of being untrustworthy.

Article: http://kukuruyo.com/2017/03/20/think-gamergate-won-porque-creo-que-gamergate-gano/

Discussion Questions
* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate won?

* If you believe that GG has won, do you believe the battle is over, or that there is still work to be done?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo's characterization of GG "as a pushback against unethical journalism in videogames, and the censorship, corruption, and political correctness that was taking a grip on the medium"?

* Do you agree that GamerGate "paved the way" for the wider societal pushback against censorship and dishonest journalism?

* Do you believe that criticism of social justice extremism and the media has become mainstream?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate supporters are mostly left-leaning?

* Do you agree or disagree with Kukuruyo's take on the election and the media's coverage of said election?

image

Fox12:

Netscape:
GamerGate supporter and Hugo Award nominee, Kukuruyo, recently wrote a blog post explaining why he thinks GamerGate won. The article was fairly well received on both KotakuInAction and on the GamerGate hashtag. Kukuruyo also briefly touched upon the election, accusing both the media and Donald Trump of being untrustworthy.

Article: http://kukuruyo.com/2017/03/20/think-gamergate-won-porque-creo-que-gamergate-gano/

Discussion Questions
* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate won?

* If you believe that GG has won, do you believe the battle is over, or that there is still work to be done?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo's characterization of GG "as a pushback against unethical journalism in videogames, and the censorship, corruption, and political correctness that was taking a grip on the medium"?

* Do you agree that GamerGate "paved the way" for the wider societal pushback against censorship and dishonest journalism?

* Do you believe that criticism of social justice extremism and the media has become mainstream?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate supporters are mostly left-leaning?

* Do you agree or disagree with Kukuruyo's take on the election and the media's coverage of said election?

image

I think you just won the thread. Pictures are definitely worth 1000 words.

Fox12:

Netscape:
GamerGate supporter and Hugo Award nominee, Kukuruyo, recently wrote a blog post explaining why he thinks GamerGate won. The article was fairly well received on both KotakuInAction and on the GamerGate hashtag. Kukuruyo also briefly touched upon the election, accusing both the media and Donald Trump of being untrustworthy.

Article: http://kukuruyo.com/2017/03/20/think-gamergate-won-porque-creo-que-gamergate-gano/

Discussion Questions
* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate won?

* If you believe that GG has won, do you believe the battle is over, or that there is still work to be done?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo's characterization of GG "as a pushback against unethical journalism in videogames, and the censorship, corruption, and political correctness that was taking a grip on the medium"?

* Do you agree that GamerGate "paved the way" for the wider societal pushback against censorship and dishonest journalism?

* Do you believe that criticism of social justice extremism and the media has become mainstream?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate supporters are mostly left-leaning?

* Do you agree or disagree with Kukuruyo's take on the election and the media's coverage of said election?

image

Damn it, Fox. You made me laugh.

Also, Gamergate. Is that still a thing?

Parasondox:

Fox12:

Netscape:
GamerGate supporter and Hugo Award nominee, Kukuruyo, recently wrote a blog post explaining why he thinks GamerGate won. The article was fairly well received on both KotakuInAction and on the GamerGate hashtag. Kukuruyo also briefly touched upon the election, accusing both the media and Donald Trump of being untrustworthy.

Article: http://kukuruyo.com/2017/03/20/think-gamergate-won-porque-creo-que-gamergate-gano/

Discussion Questions
* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate won?

* If you believe that GG has won, do you believe the battle is over, or that there is still work to be done?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo's characterization of GG "as a pushback against unethical journalism in videogames, and the censorship, corruption, and political correctness that was taking a grip on the medium"?

* Do you agree that GamerGate "paved the way" for the wider societal pushback against censorship and dishonest journalism?

* Do you believe that criticism of social justice extremism and the media has become mainstream?

* Do you agree with Kukuruyo that GamerGate supporters are mostly left-leaning?

* Do you agree or disagree with Kukuruyo's take on the election and the media's coverage of said election?

image

Damn it, Fox. You made me laugh.

Also, Gamergate. Is that still a thing?

I think GG and a few other movements (like atheism plus) joined together into a larger culture war. I don't think people really care about GG anymore, but I think it's a symptom of something larger.

Heck, it's not even the first culture war of its type.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here