Do Game publishes/developers respect gamers

Growing up the gaming industry was alot different for example games were released with more content ,DLC was expected to be more then a cash grab remember the backlash for horse amour in oblivion .Now we have 20 dollar outfits for wild lands games that are hyped to bring franchises to the present but lack more then half of what there was to play in the past. Games are also coming out rushed and clearly incomplete but were expected to pay full price on release and hope they patch it throughout the year.I think it goes back to respect take for example battlefront 2 we just got a great trailer promised with everything we wanted from the first reboot and i cant help but feel a little hype for it. However a huge part of me dont believe it and if you look around alot people dont either. We been disrespected so many times by the industry that we care about we dont trust them anymore and that just sad and im wondering where gaming is going to go from here.

You might feel all of those are valid points, but then you remember things like the Ultima series (which progressed more and more into cash milking territory with each sequel past III or so), the Might and Magic series (see what Ultima did) or the disaster of a game that was E.T. You also remember the quagmire that was the 90's and early 00's gaming market, where every decent to good AAA title was surrounded by ineptly made A/AA games that hinged on tricking people to buy them by looking like the AAA product they were trying to leech sales from. You remember how games would ship broken and you were lucky to ever get a patch to fix it (Outcast, the cult classic, was shipped with a faulty launcher in the Nordic countries, you had to go searching the game directory for the game .exe to launch the game and use the .ini to configure settings) and how yet other games would have issues that prevented you from ever completing them even if you could play them.

Publishers respect "Gamers" as much as they do any customer. If anything, publishers today probably respect their core audience more today then ever before, if only because they've realized that there's money to be made from DLC, which requires post-launch support and for people to stay with the game. But publishers have always been capitalists first and foremost and the customers satisfaction is rather trivial as long as they keep coming back for more.

There's a lack of respect all round. Publishers and developers will treat their market as any market treats its participants, as consumers. Anything that will get you to pay more money is a good thing. Also bear in mind that cynical philosophy enjoys widespread support from all walks of life in the Western world, particularly the US. Thus, day 1 DLC, aggressive DRM practices etc.

Gamers have more or less come to define the internet generation. One thing that's common on the internet is merciless negativity in place of thought-out criticism. It has improved as time has gone on, but it's still around. Then there's the willingness of various segments of the community to do what they loudly proclaimed they wouldn't do (buy day 1 DLC, get games with aggressive DRM practices etc) while other segments will launch attacks on a company's image or infrastructure.

It's not a friendly environment even though we have more access to one another than we used to. Though as Gethsemani points out, it wasn't necessarily any better back in the good ol' days.

I mean, SNES games used to cost $80, and were complaining that our $60 modern games that cost an order of magnitude more money to make has DLC. And then we drastically misrepresent what said DLC is to make hyperbolic points about how evil the industry is.

Why should developers respect us?

Better question. Why are gamers seemingly so clueless when it comes to basic economics and business practices that literally every other industry has which customers are aware of?

altnameJag:
I mean, SNES games used to cost $80, and were complaining that our $60 modern games that cost an order of magnitude more money to make has DLC. And then we drastically misrepresent what said DLC is to make hyperbolic points about how evil the industry is.

Why should developers respect us?

Yeah pretty-much this.

Speaking as someone who grew up in the 90's, I have to say that people now are living in a much more gamer-friendly market. Yeah preorder culture did not exist yet but everything else in the game industry was worse.

Consumer-advocacy did not really exist for the medium, what passed for coverage was blatant advertising (so the only way to know if a game was worth playing was to have a friend who had bought it) and the idea of an indie game that was something other than shovelware was an elusive fantasy.

altnameJag:
I mean, SNES games used to cost $80, and were complaining that our $60 modern games that cost an order of magnitude more money to make has DLC. And then we drastically misrepresent what said DLC is to make hyperbolic points about how evil the industry is.

Why should developers respect us?

Too bad that the AAA budget frequently isn't reflected in game quality as much as it should (specially from EA). But complains or not, they don't matter as long as people keeps buying them.

irishda:
Better question. Why are gamers seemingly so clueless when it comes to basic economics and business practices that literally every other industry has which customers are aware of?

I feel like the sentence

"Why are gamers seemingly so clueless when it comes to basic _________ and _________ practices that literally every other industry has which customers are aware of?"

could be brought up regarding a significant number of topics sadly. I blame it mostly on the types of "gamers" who frequently make noise online. The vocal minority in our hobby seems very heavy in arrogance and spite and very light in knowledge.

Alot of good point were made and i stand corrected on some of what i wrote.Back in the day my testing was going to blockbuster and if i remember correctly it was turok on n64 that was completely broke at the end ,Also the flood of movie cash in games that were horrible.So it is more gamer friendly these days hell Microsoft just announced self service refunds for xbox and demos seem to be making a come back.However i still feel like there issues with industry that can be fixed but that goes for anything and as it was pointed out at the end of the day it all about basic economics and the bottom line.

I hate bullshit DLC as much as the next guy and, as I recently found out, the endless headaches involved in having a domestic PSN account while trying to get DLC for foreign games (so much for region free O_o) but this seems par for the course.

I don't think the heads of major game publishers were ever that invested in their audience, at least not over that of directors and all the little guys who put in the time to make games happen. And honestly, the industry sucks even worse for all those endless, faceless coders and artists and programmers.

But that's capitalism, son. That's not to say I think mistreating customers is good but that the gaming industry is trying out shady tactics or rushing games should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

I don't have a problem with DLCs. Even with Day-1 DLCs. Those are the same idea as collectors editions or, more precise, full and budget version of a game.

We had different functionality and different prices for all kinds of software for decades. Home and professional editions. Optional Modules with extra licence fees. It is just a way to serf different customer segments with different availabe money by hiding some functionality behind additiaonal costs. As long as all versions work, i am fine with that.

Yes, DLCs are usually overprised compared to base games, but that means only, that the most budget version provides the best return for the money spent. Again, i am fine with that.

I have more problems with pvp-based games that first establish guilds/alliances, strongholds and so on and then demand real money investment from players to stay competitive or retain facilities. Forcing people to dish out money or let online friends down is a pretty shitty move. Player based economies that require a steady influx of real money to work are another fishy thing.

Generally publishers are noemal buissnessmen. Developers are usually gamers themself. You can't make a good game without interest in games.

Overall, i don't think that the gaming industry has somehow gotten worse. When was the last time securumdestroyed one of your drives ?

I've been hoping for a new 1983 crash for a few years now, in all honestly; garbage like day-1 DLC and always online don't have a place in any industry I care to support.

Gethsemani:
You might feel all of those are valid points, but then you remember things like the Ultima series (which progressed more and more into cash milking territory with each sequel past III or so), the Might and Magic series (see what Ultima did) or the disaster of a game that was E.T.

Sorry to nitpick, but I think those first two are probably bad examples. Ultimas IV, V and VII are among the most well-regarded in the series by fans, for good reason; it was precisely when VIII came out that EA's executive meddling started, and resulted in a completely changed formula which alienated fans (though for the record, I think VIII it's actually a good game, even if it is unarguably a terrible Ultima game and a terrible sequel to VII).

Same with Might & Magic. From Book One through Clouds of Xeen (I-IV), all iterations hugely improved on their predecessors, and even though the move from grid-based to free roaming wasn't much to my liking, MM VI: The Mandate of Heaven shook things up considerably.

Ogoid:
I've been hoping for a new 1983 crash for a few years now, in all honestly; garbage like day-1 DLC and always online don't have a place in any industry I care to support.

Not gona happen; not as long people keep buying all that as clockwork. What made the 1983 a crash was that no one was buying games anymore.

About as much as any industry respects consumers. I will say that entertainment sectors (pleasure industries) are particularly bad. As you can imagine, beef industry can't sell tainted meat. It's easy enough (comparatively) to regulate against bad meat entering s marketplace. It's a hell of a lot harder to regulate just how much fun consumers should receive from products.

Depends on who your talking about. Companies like Platinum, WayForward, Naughty Dog, and Atlus (up until that no LP fiasco) treat most gamers with respect, while others like Ninja Theory, EA, Capcom, Activision, and Ubisoft, do not. The latter four used to, but not anymore. And then you have companies like Sega and Nintendo, who don't know who they are anymore. Koei-Tecmo is more of a grey area, but at least they admitted their faults and learning from their own mistakes.

Ogoid:
I've been hoping for a new 1983 crash for a few years now, in all honestly; garbage like day-1 DLC and always online don't have a place in any industry I care to support.

Like the other guy told you, not gonna happen; besides, a crash right now would solve nothing. At least some companies have stopped making COD clones, and finally learned there are other genres of games out in the market.

Like all corporations, they respect your wallets and what it takes to get inside those wallets.

Not sure when you were "growing up" but when I was growing up having not to use batteries for a portable system was revolutionary and online play wasn't really a thing, so, lets say that gaming changes and there's good and bad stuff.

As for the dlc, back when horse armor was a thing the gaming audience was much smaller. If the same amount of people complain today it won't even register because there's just so many more new people who have joined and they joined with dlc being a thing so they don't hate it as much as people who have been playing for decades and remember an era before dlc was even a thing.

Developers? Probably, though that would vary quite a bit on a per-company basis I'd imagine.

Publishers? Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa... no. God no. We're walking wallets to those guys. Pre-orders, day-one DLC, Season Passes and Ultra-Special-Mega-Gold-Deluxe Editions for 300 dollars are not business practices you push on someone you 'respect'.

It varies from developer to developer. Some seem to be genuinely trying, others seem to be not interested whereas some companies seem to be openly despising its customers for some reason. youll have to take actual examples to discuss these though.

altnameJag:
I mean, SNES games used to cost $80, and were complaining that our $60 modern games that cost an order of magnitude more money to make has DLC. And then we drastically misrepresent what said DLC is to make hyperbolic points about how evil the industry is.

Why should developers respect us?

60 is way too much given the increase in market size, let alone extra DLCs. Basic economics dictate that as the customer pool increase, prices decrease, but prices were kept artificially high because tradition and now even more milking is common.

irishda:
Better question. Why are gamers seemingly so clueless when it comes to basic economics and business practices that literally every other industry has which customers are aware of?

If you think customers are aware of basic economics in other industries then you never worker a customer facing job.

Ogoid:
I've been hoping for a new 1983 crash for a few years now, in all honestly; garbage like day-1 DLC and always online don't have a place in any industry I care to support.

You are overestimating the 1983 crash effect. It crashed a single market for single platform in a single country (well technically two). the rest of the world went on as before. The crash didnt affect PC gaming for example. Nor it affected European market.

Besides, a market-wide crash nowadays is impossible. Gaming is too diverse. You have dozens of genres on dozens of platforms and even if by some magic everyone stopped buying any consoles tomorrow youd still have PC, handheld and mobile markets making billions. If anything, Console market is dieing on its own, its the smallest market share nowadays (mobile is the biggest).

I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Derryck:
I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

As much as a farmer respects a cow.

FriendoftheFallen:

Derryck:
I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

Get the CS degree. When you inevitably either burn out or are run out of the industry, you'll be able to do more with it than get a retail store shift manager position.

Avnger:

FriendoftheFallen:

Derryck:
I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

Get the CS degree. When you inevitably either burn out or are run out of the industry, you'll be able to do more with it than get a retail store shift manager position.

Does the industry have a high burnout rate? What do you mean run out of the industry? Good advice though. CS is more versatile even though the video game design program is exactly what I want to do. Either way, I get to take AI.

FriendoftheFallen:

Does the industry have a high burnout rate? What do you mean run out of the industry? Good advice though. CS is more versatile even though the video game design program is exactly what I want to do. Either way, I get to take AI.

Very high as I understand it. I've never been in the industry myself but it seems largely due to poor job security (finishing a project could mean the end of your time with the company), the use of "crunch-time" as part of their business model (expect a lot of unpaid overtime as a project nears completion) and the fact that employees have very little leverage due to the near-endless flood of graduates who want to make video games for a living.

Better to be able to transition to IT or go indie.

FriendoftheFallen:

Avnger:

FriendoftheFallen:

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

Get the CS degree. When you inevitably either burn out or are run out of the industry, you'll be able to do more with it than get a retail store shift manager position.

Does the industry have a high burnout rate? What do you mean run out of the industry? Good advice though. CS is more versatile even though the video game design program is exactly what I want to do. Either way, I get to take AI.

Pretty much what @jademunky said above. The burnout rate is ridiculous particularly since game design grads are treated as completely disposable. I've actually had this same conversation with my younger brother who wants to get a game design degree. If you're looking for future options when you inevitably leave the industry, you really should consider getting either a CS degree or double majoring into a CS degree and a game design degree. Something you can look into is that a lot of colleges/universities offer a game design or something similar minor/concentration that you could pick up if double majoring doesn't seem possible.

If nothing else, any decent CS program will have a large number of semester long projects in their classes that you can usually gear towards something you want like a game. As a grad with a CS degree, I know that even not being interested in game design, I ended up making several different games throughout my school years. Those types of projects are things that you can easily brag about to recruiters in interviews and such.

Thank you both for the feedback. It is more in less in line with what I've been hearing from my classmates and peers. The overlap between the video game design with a programming focus and computer science is about 70% so double majoring is not the worst idea.

My other concern was being pushed out of the gamedev community because I don't think cis white males are inherently more evil than any other group. I hope that that is less of an issue by the time I hit the workforce.

Do gamers respect developers? I have to say, it doesn't seem that way.

FriendoftheFallen:

Derryck:
I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

As the other ones said, definitely go for a CS degree. The more technical your background is, the more likely you will have a good (and well paid) job. If your job title has got "design" in it, you are the doormat of the company.

FriendoftheFallen:
Thank you both for the feedback. It is more in less in line with what I've been hearing from my classmates and peers. The overlap between the video game design with a programming focus and computer science is about 70% so double majoring is not the worst idea.

My other concern was being pushed out of the gamedev community because I don't think cis white males are inherently more evil than any other group. I hope that that is less of an issue by the time I hit the workforce.

Yeah, call me crazy, but I doubt that that is a problem. Or ever was.

erttheking:

FriendoftheFallen:
Thank you both for the feedback. It is more in less in line with what I've been hearing from my classmates and peers. The overlap between the video game design with a programming focus and computer science is about 70% so double majoring is not the worst idea.

My other concern was being pushed out of the gamedev community because I don't think cis white males are inherently more evil than any other group. I hope that that is less of an issue by the time I hit the workforce.

Yeah, call me crazy, but I doubt that that is a problem. Or ever was.

Yeah, "evil" is a stretch and a half

"Lazy" and "selfish" maybe

Maybe "loves playing the victim in an environment heavily slanted in their favor"

But evil is laughable and the fact that they think that simply being critiqued means that everyone thinks they're evil is a large part of the problem

Derryck:

FriendoftheFallen:

Derryck:
I was working in the game industry for more than 5 years. Ask me anything and I'll tell ya how developers feel. :)

Which is preferable(for someone who wants to get into the video games industry): a Video Game Design Degree or a computer Science degree?

As the other ones said, definitely go for a CS degree. The more technical your background is, the more likely you will have a good (and well paid) job. If your job title has got "design" in it, you are the doormat of the company.

That is a good tendency to know of. I guess I could bite the bullet and double major. Or just stay in cs and get really good at sorting algorithms and tree/graph traversal.

erttheking:

FriendoftheFallen:
Thank you both for the feedback. It is more in less in line with what I've been hearing from my classmates and peers. The overlap between the video game design with a programming focus and computer science is about 70% so double majoring is not the worst idea.

My other concern was being pushed out of the gamedev community because I don't think cis white males are inherently more evil than any other group. I hope that that is less of an issue by the time I hit the workforce.

Yeah, call me crazy, but I doubt that that is a problem. Or ever was.

Well there is evidence to the contrary but I the likelihood of you acknowledging it is low enough to not justify retrieving the data you would just reject anyhow.

undeadsuitor:

erttheking:

FriendoftheFallen:
Thank you both for the feedback. It is more in less in line with what I've been hearing from my classmates and peers. The overlap between the video game design with a programming focus and computer science is about 70% so double majoring is not the worst idea.

My other concern was being pushed out of the gamedev community because I don't think cis white males are inherently more evil than any other group. I hope that that is less of an issue by the time I hit the workforce.

Yeah, call me crazy, but I doubt that that is a problem. Or ever was.

Yeah, "evil" is a stretch and a half

"Lazy" and "selfish" maybe

Maybe "loves playing the victim in an environment heavily slanted in their favor"

But evil is laughable and the fact that they think that simply being critiqued means that everyone thinks they're evil is a large part of the problem

Sorry but my personal experience has not been of an environment heavily slanted in my favor and to ignore what I am saying to put forth that interpretation shows you just want to mock and belittle what I have personally seen and experienced. If you don't want soemoen to think you are calling them evil by "critiquing" then perhaps watch your tone and vitriol so they can't possibly get "evil" from all the insults and moral insinuations. Using vitriolic and hateful tones to critique someone then mocking them when they have an issue with that abuse that is disguised as a critique seems a bit hypocritical and at least a bit malicious.

How is pointing out hos some environments are not only not in ones favor but inf act openly and vocally hostile to ones present playing the victim. Telling someone that has been victimized that they are merely playing a victim is heartless and a bit callous. Not wanting to be vilified is not lazy or selfish and it is a bit dismissive and a teeny bit sadistic to mock those that are claiming to experience issues just because you perceive them as privileged.

 

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