Pro-Religious References in Final Fantasy

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Cowabungaa:

kitsunefather:

Cowabungaa:

Newt Gingrich would love you.

Well, to be fair, that's unlikely. I'm an atheist and believe that for things to be accepted as factual reality they require empirical evidence or repeatable predictive behavior. I'm talking about faith at a personal level.

To me it just sounds like you're contradicting yourself, or making a distinction where I don't see one, something like that. How is 'accepting things as factual reality' based on empirical evidence or patterns any less 'personal' than what you described as 'faith on a personal level' which you describe as completely independent from facts?

These two are both mechanisms for the same thing; to make up one's mind about something, is what I'm trying to say.

And that's a fair view. Mainly, I see a difference between empirical reality and the concept of a supernatural one; an acceptance that belief from personal experience becomes anecdotal to others, and can't really be proven. I respect a person's belief in a higher power (or ghosts, or alien visitation, or what-have-you) as long as it does no harm to others, while maintaining that physical reality shows no evidence of these things (outside of the argument that physical reality is evidence of it). It may be a bit of cognitive dissonance on my part, and I acknowledge that.

sageoftruth:

Fox12:

DaCosta:

Ever heard of "Death of the Author"? It's a 50 year old literary theory that says that deciding what something means is pretty much the consumer's job, and I tend to agree with it.

Yes, yes, I've heard of it. It's absolute literary drivel, but I've heard of it.

I'm going to stop both of you there for just a moment. I think this is a bit irrelevant in the context of this thread. With the way the title was phrased, I get how this could lead to a discussion of what a work of fiction means in the canon sense, but the OP's main concern which kicked off this whole dilemma, revolved around whether or not it was okay for him or other Christians to play it, since he was worried that it would lead them astray from their faith.
Regardless of where you guys stand on your current discussion, I'm pretty sure both of you can agree that people often will draw their own conclusions from what they watch, read, or play. If Christians can find their own pro-Christian message from playing Final Fantasy, then it hardly matters if it was originally intended to be anti-religious, since either way, Christians will still be able to use it to reinforce their faith.
Personally, I'm not too keen on the idea that they should be shielded, or should shield themselves from material that challenges their views, but that's a discussion for another time, or another post.

...

Yeah, you're right. I didn't mean to derail the discussion.

I think OP should be open to new experiences and ideas, whether they're from another religion or atheist. He owes it to himself to get new experiences, especially if he's young.

Fox12:

sageoftruth:

Fox12:

Yes, yes, I've heard of it. It's absolute literary drivel, but I've heard of it.

I'm going to stop both of you there for just a moment. I think this is a bit irrelevant in the context of this thread. With the way the title was phrased, I get how this could lead to a discussion of what a work of fiction means in the canon sense, but the OP's main concern which kicked off this whole dilemma, revolved around whether or not it was okay for him or other Christians to play it, since he was worried that it would lead them astray from their faith.
Regardless of where you guys stand on your current discussion, I'm pretty sure both of you can agree that people often will draw their own conclusions from what they watch, read, or play. If Christians can find their own pro-Christian message from playing Final Fantasy, then it hardly matters if it was originally intended to be anti-religious, since either way, Christians will still be able to use it to reinforce their faith.
Personally, I'm not too keen on the idea that they should be shielded, or should shield themselves from material that challenges their views, but that's a discussion for another time, or another post.

...

Yeah, you're right. I didn't mean to derail the discussion.

I think OP should be open to new experiences and ideas, whether they're from another religion or atheist. He owes it to himself to get new experiences, especially if he's young.

No worries. I could tell you weren't trying to segue into something different. The things I brought up were only mentioned at the very beginning, so it would be easy to forget about them after reading through such a large opening post.

Well there are a lot of religious refere.....

"PRO-religion"

oh....yea none of that in final fantasy....or JRPGs in general...actually japanese media in general. I know the first response mentioned that you kill God in FF 13 lightning returns, but Square Enix did that for final fantasy legend 1 as well, and that was made in 1990, 27 flippin years ago.

About the closest thing to a pro-religion FF game is probably FF 15, and even then 4 out of 6 of the gods were kinda pricks. Final fantasy tactics, legends 1, the entire 13 series, and FF 10 all roast religion pretty toasty. Although Xenosaga series still takes the cake in that christianity was created for the sole purpose of destroying the universe.

Religion in fiction is like the CIA in fiction. If it is involved in any way its probably the villain.

Ryotknife:
Well there are a lot of religious refere.....

"PRO-religion"

oh....yea none of that in final fantasy....or JRPGs in general...actually japanese media in general. I know the first response mentioned that you kill God in FF 13 lightning returns, but Square Enix did that for final fantasy legend 1 as well, and that was made in 1990, 27 flippin years ago.

About the closest thing to a pro-religion FF game is probably FF 15, and even then 4 out of 6 of the gods were kinda pricks. Final fantasy tactics, legends 1, the entire 13 series, and FF 10 all roast religion pretty toasty. Although Xenosaga series still takes the cake in that christianity was created for the sole purpose of destroying the universe.

Religion in fiction is like the CIA in fiction. If it is involved in any way its probably the villain.

Give a look to Bravely Default to see a Square-Enix JRPG's attempt to have a Pro-Religion story.

Well, I'm an atheist. I've played 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 15 and I never really thought of any of them as religious or anti religious. It seems to me that, like a lot of japanese tv, they have taken elements of western and eastern mythology and fused it together to make a weird story, which includes religions from different faiths.

dscross:
Well, I'm an atheist. I've played 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 15 and I never really thought of any of them as religious or anti religious. It seems to me that, like a lot of japanese tv, they have taken elements of western and eastern mythology and fused it together to make a weird story, which includes religions from different faiths.

Yeah, that's my take on it as well. Just like mythology, the Bible has plenty of ideas and concepts to be exploited by the creative mind.

Fox12:
I mean, I think it depends on the game, especially since they were made and written by different people. FF10 was 100% about how organized religion can be bad, and people should be open minded. Hince why so many JRPG's are about killing God or whatever. It's basically a cliche at this point. FF6 was an existential treatise about the meaning of life, and while I wouldn't call it anti-religious, it's entirely about finding meaning through a humanist lens. AKA, secular. I would say that you should look at the games individually and decide for yourself what you think. Not all of them are about religion, after all. However, even if they are, I don't think you should stop playing them. There's nothing wrong with being introdued to different perspectives, even if you disagree with them. If playing FF 10 makes you lose faith, I'd argue that you were never very religious in the first place.

hanselthecaretaker:
A general guideline is people read waaaaay too much into entertainment and the meanings behind any given piece of it; so much so it'd be enough to give a person with OCD a nervous breakdown. Meanwhile ironically enough there are several real world issues going on in the meantime that people think nothing of for one reason or another.

Any fictional book, movie, videogame, etc. should be taken with a giant grain of salt, because all it is is storytelling. Knowledge is power, and it's up to the consumer to be able to interpret this stuff and ultimately draw their own conclusions. We still live in a free world, so naturally opposing ideas may occasionally collide.

gmaverick019:

hanselthecaretaker:
A general guideline is people read waaaaay too much into entertainment and the meanings behind any given piece of it

image

Don't get me wrong, I know there are plenty of things where they actually *mean* something...

but sometimes a dog peeing on a bush is just a dog peeing on a fucking bush, there is no hidden meaning, no deepness, IT JUST FUCKING HAPPENED, OKAY?

I wanted to tear my hair out in literature/composition class growing up for this reason.

OT: there are plenty of things that draw from religion/afterlife, they are interesting concepts, I'm largely agnostic/lean towards atheism, but supernatural is one of my favorite shows...you don't have to be anti/pro religion to be able to use/talk about it in positive or negative light, as long as it's an interesting idea who gives a fuck.

Nah. Sorry fella. Reading into fiction is... kind of the whole point. It's also not up to the consumer to decide what something means. The creator typically has a pretty clear idea of what their work means, and they get the final say.

That couldn't be more wrong. Speaking as a creator myself, the second you releases a piece of storytelling/entertainment to the public, it no longer belongs to you and is then at the mercy of however the public chooses to ingest and/or interpret it.

The only way a creator gets the final say on something they've created is if they pull a J.D. Salinger and just keep tons of it locked away, for their eyes only.

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