Square Shuts Down Fan-Made Chrono Game

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CapnJack:
But I don't feel bad for the people who worked five years to create this, because their compliance was their choice. What they should have done is shut down the site, shut down everything related to it, and leak the project on to bit torrent. That way, their five years of hardwork is mostly not lost, everybody gets to appreciate it, and Square Enix can't take action against them.

How can you not feel bad for them? This was a labor of love that was given the digital finger just before it was finished. It's like kicking over a kid's sand-castle at the beach (not that anyone does that anymore).

*gives Squenix the finger right back* Jackasses.

Well, the reason they C&D is because they have to aggressivly protect the rights, otherwise it creates precident. Once there is precidence for them allowing people to run all over with their properties, it becomes almost impossible to protect them in court. What they SHOULD have done is contacted the group, created a special contract with stipulations limiting them soley to this one and current fanservice project, and let the project run with their blessing and the legal understanding this was a fan made non-prof that extended no rights from the Chrono Trigger liscence to them or anyone else outside Squenix.

Instead they slapped them with a C&D because that was the quickest and simplest and they're lazy. Pricks. This is what happens when corporate suits become the guiding force behind videogame artists. On the bright side it took a few decades for Squenix to get this bad, so we should have another 10 or 15 bullshit free years from Valve or Blizzard before they become corrupt.

this doesn't shock me in the least and frankly i find it funny everyone gets all up in arms about this. i mean they knew this was going to happen or were at least expecting it because they had that message on their website.

what baffles me is why spend time on doing something illegal, why not spend the time making a totally new project instead of one that isn't legal at least

for those saying that Square is being dicks about this, they HAD to do something, if they don't try to enforce their copyright, they can lose it

Meado:

How can you not feel bad for them? This was a labor of love that was given the digital finger just before it was finished. It's like kicking over a kid's sand-castle at the beach (not that anyone does that anymore).

This really isn't Square's fault at all. The onus was on the creators to ask Square from the outset if they could use the property.

Teiraa:
Square Enix is being a bunch of cockbites lately
they removed my cloud vs sephiroth vid from youtube! D=
i didnt say it was mine at all i said it was fan made i don't know why they are suddenly going through the "MINE!! YOU CAN HAVE ANY OF IT" phase

Keane Ng:

Teiraa:
Square Enix is being a bunch of cockbites lately
they removed my cloud vs sephiroth vid from youtube! D=

What a loss to our culture...how will we ever recover from this?

I suppose you have a point, Keane... that said, Coldplay decided to remove a video of mine with their song Viva La Vida and FF clips spliced together a while back. I subsequently posted it on their own Facebook page in protest and they put it back on Youtube for me :D Evanescence did the whole copyright thing in the same way with another of my FF music videos, but they decided to just leave it and stick ads next to the video, which was fine by me.

Anyway, don't want to derail this since it's the News Room (I'll leave that to Max), so back on topic:

Square have basically been really annoying recently. The whole series of delays for the Xbox 360 FF XIII release was bad enough, but now they're picking on the small developer too. What harm could this do provided the creators released it for free, which was intended anyway and all they could do by copyright? This isn't fair on the people who spent so long and worked so hard for something they believed in, as a tribute to Square Enix's product no less. Besides, haven't Square Enix ever heard of Fair Use?

Copyright needs to be changed for silly crap like this. There is no reason, none, that Squenix, nor any company, can give to legally halt work on a fan project that is making no money, nor will make no money. They can "threaten" to legally do something, but it is all bluster. There is nothing that prevents people from doing fan work like this. Copyright laws and protection need to step into the 21st century.

Besides, Tsunami, Blizzard has already done this. See B.netD

Earthbound:
That is rather disappointing. I would be thrilled if I made a game a decade or so ago and someone spent five years making a game off of that. Look at a company like Valve. Someone's remaking Half Life 1 under the name "Black Mesa," with redone graphics and gameplay, and Valve is looking forward to it. Why can't Square hold that same philosophy?

Because their japenese and as Shingo "Seabass"Tatsuka (of pro-evo fame) pointed out they are terrible at shareing

Teiraa:
Square Enix is being a bunch of cockbites latly

Lately? They've always been self-righteous dicksmurfs.

Ever seen Video Games Live? They can't stop VGLive from playing Final Fantasy's music, because owner/composer/creator Nobuo Uematsu gave permission to play it, but Squenix will be eight years dead before they allow VGLive to show a single clip from any of their games. Rah rah rah!

So, when it came time to play the Kingdom Hearts score, Disney was more than happy to provide 100% of the visual end of the presentation.

Now tell me, who wins and who loses with that?

Everybody is hating on square but what if they decided hey lets give this a chance and so they went to test it and give it their full blessing and then they started playing it and they realized this is complete crap, we can't let them release this we'll be ruined, and then the guys got bribed not to put it on the market or something. You never know for sure.

cleverlymadeup:

what baffles me is why spend time on doing something illegal, why not spend the time making a totally new project instead of one that isn't legal at least

Because, from what I can tell, these people wanted to make a tribute/sequel to Chrono Trigger; a new game would not be as close to peoples' hearts as Crimson Echoes.

anyway. I noticed the C&D letter said that the modders claim a copyright to Crimson Echoes... I highly doubt that. If anything, the only copyright they probably "claimed" was simply to the ideas of it, not Chrono itself. The way the letter reads, it sounds like Crimson Echoes was something extremely bad, but from what I could tell, all it was was a fan tribute sort of game that could possibly garner curiosity about the original game more than anything else.

I've seen other modders work on things and not get in trouble; hell, there's some fan-made "The World" project going on that got a C&D letter but they managed to work it out, and then there are fan-translations of games like Persona 2 and such that didn't get a letter. I just don't quite understand why they percieve it as a threat.

dmase:
Everybody is hating on square but what if they decided hey lets give this a chance and so they went to test it and give it their full blessing and then they started playing it and they realized this is complete crap, we can't let them release this we'll be ruined, and then the guys got bribed not to put it on the market or something. You never know for sure.

I fail to see, no matter how bad it was, how it could "ruin" them. As others have pointed out this wouldn't have any financial impact on Squarenix and now they are just looking at bad PR.

I don't see why they couldn't just ask them to have a huge disclaimer at the start of the ROM: "This game is a fan made project. Squarenix, the original developers of Chrono Trigger, had no part in the development, creation, or release of this title."

Ollie596:
Well they do have the right.

Edit - But its annoying

Unfortunatly.

tendo82:

Meado:

How can you not feel bad for them? This was a labor of love that was given the digital finger just before it was finished. It's like kicking over a kid's sand-castle at the beach (not that anyone does that anymore).

This really isn't Square's fault at all. The onus was on the creators to ask Square from the outset if they could use the property.

I don't have a problem with Squeenix shutting it down. They have the right to do that and it's perfectly within the law.
What is the problem though is that they waited five years to stop it. Five years. It hasn't become any more legal/illegal in all that time, so why did they wait so long to stop them? It can't have been that hard to find out about it (I knew about it, and I've never played the Chrono games) so it ultimately boils down to them just being dicks.

Johnny Danger:

dmase:
Everybody is hating on square but what if they decided hey lets give this a chance and so they went to test it and give it their full blessing and then they started playing it and they realized this is complete crap, we can't let them release this we'll be ruined, and then the guys got bribed not to put it on the market or something. You never know for sure.

I fail to see, no matter how bad it was, how it could "ruin" them. As others have pointed out this wouldn't have any financial impact on Squarenix and now they are just looking at bad PR.

I don't see why they couldn't just ask them to have a huge disclaimer at the start of the ROM: "This game is a fan made project. Squarenix, the original developers of Chrono Trigger, had no part in the development, creation, or release of this title."

I was joking i'm sure the game they made was at least on level with most generic RPGs probably better.

As a huge fan of ROM hacks and fangames.... Fuck you, Squarenix, you cockbites.

This just saddens the hell out of me. I remember the Lets Play of Super Metroid Redesign, which was lucky enough to get the hack maker to provide commentary. He said how helpful the game had been in getting him a job in the game industry, just by being able to say, "hey, I once made this ROM hack". An RPG with multiple paths and ending that was worked on for five years...

Christ.

dmase:
Everybody is hating on square but what if they decided hey lets give this a chance and so they went to test it and give it their full blessing and then they started playing it and they realized this is complete crap, we can't let them release this we'll be ruined, and then the guys got bribed not to put it on the market or something. You never know for sure.

The ROM hack community is so small, man, it wouldn't have fukken mattered.

Teiraa:
Square Enix is being a bunch of cockbites latly
they removed my cloud vs sephiroth vid form youtube! D=
i didnt say it was mine at all i said it was fan made i dont know why they are suddenly going through the "MINE!! YOU CAN HAVE ANY OF IT" phase

Yeah, AND they removed that totally-fucking-sweet fan video from Youtube made of all sorts of different scenes in Advent Children, to the song 'Navras' from the Matrix. It was frakking awesome and they had to remove it, and now I'll never find it again.

I smell R3volucion!

Unite, brothers! Cast off the oppressors! We have the right to....yeah I'll stop.

Corporations look at their stuff like its precious gold and when someone says "Can I touch it" they screw NO! and grab it like a five year old. Squennix is pulling a Disney.

This is very old news, as I believe a member brought up earlier on page 1. I heard about this years ago, where Squeenix gave the seize and desist only a year or two after they started. I then spent hours looked at completely revised versions of scenes, like the monster on the bridge, in a more 3d aspect instead of the classic look-down feel of the original.

I believe the recent article was only made because it brings up drama and hype. Perhaps the CT fans stated that that was their end date, or started up again after being asked to stop the first time.

PedroSteckecilo:

Ollie596:
Well they do have the right.

Edit - But its annoying

Same, I won't deny them excercising their copyrights...

But yeah, it doesn't change the fact that they're being giant sacks of dicks about the whole thing. It'd be like Obsidian suing Team Gizka, something I'm damn sure they won't do.

Oh christ, if they sue Team Gizka, I'm boycotting, even though they're making the game I'm looking forward to the most this year (Alpha Protocol).

Earthbound:
That is rather disappointing. I would be thrilled if I made a game a decade or so ago and someone spent five years making a game off of that. Look at a company like Valve. Someone's remaking Half Life 1 under the name "Black Mesa," with redone graphics and gameplay, and Valve is looking forward to it. Why can't Square hold that same philosophy?

Valve has always been good with this. I mean, look at TF2 and CS:Source; two developer-made sequels to mods which made more money than god for them and made them universally loved. That's doing it right.

Quaidis:
This is very old news, as I believe a member brought up earlier on page 1. I heard about this years ago, where Squeenix gave the seize and desist only a year or two after they started. I then spent hours looked at completely revised versions of scenes, like the monster on the bridge, in a more 3d aspect instead of the classic look-down feel of the original.

I believe the recent article was only made because it brings up drama and hype. Perhaps the CT fans stated that that was their end date, or started up again after being asked to stop the first time.

No those 3d renders where from a different project. That was from Chrono Trigger Resurrection which was a full 3d fan remake of the original chorno trigger game. That got shut down a while ago, THIS ROM hack is completely different project. Disappointing none the less.

Am I the only one who is not surprised by Square Enix being a bunch of assholes?

Compare them to Valve. Black Mesa source would pretty much eliminate all possible funds Valve could get from the original Half Life. Do they care? Nope.

It's never a good idea to alienate your fan base.

Annoying, this is.

A group of cock-eaters, Squeenix are.

It's been in development since 2004 and they just now took action?

Yeah, even if they're developing their own game there really isn't any nice thing to say about it.

-Seraph-:

Quaidis:
This is very old news, as I believe a member brought up earlier on page 1. I heard about this years ago, where Squeenix gave the seize and desist only a year or two after they started. I then spent hours looked at completely revised versions of scenes, like the monster on the bridge, in a more 3d aspect instead of the classic look-down feel of the original.

I believe the recent article was only made because it brings up drama and hype. Perhaps the CT fans stated that that was their end date, or started up again after being asked to stop the first time.

No those 3d renders where from a different project. That was from Chrono Trigger Resurrection which was a full 3d fan remake of the original chorno trigger game. That got shut down a while ago, THIS ROM hack is completely different project. Disappointing none the less.

Ah. Well, it looks like Squeenix demanded a discontinuation for the same reason.

Maybe they'll take a hint that fans want to make their own CT sequel =P

Next guy on Square's "To Sue" list: Guy who proposed using an altered version of Chrono Trigger.

Seriously though, it always saddens me when fan-made games of "abandoned" franchises get the axe because the original owners suddenly ups and says they're interested in it again. It's almost a decade since Chrono Cross. Chances are high that Square had no intention of reinvigorating that franchise. I wonder if this would happen to Mother 3 (note that this was a fan-translation, a little different, but the thought counts)?

This could probably a great big dick move by square if they don't release a new Chrono game sometime in the future.

This stinks of "dick move".

I mean, the project had been going on since 2004. Surely Squeenix could have had the mercy to end the project before 5 years of work were put into it if they were going to end it at all.

But of course, this could have cut into the profits of Chrono Trigger DS!

Meado:
How can you not feel bad for them? This was a labor of love that was given the digital finger just before it was finished. It's like kicking over a kid's sand-castle at the beach (not that anyone does that anymore).

Because they're being complacent. I say stick it to The Man ;)

This:

"Well, the reason they C&D is because they have to aggressivly protect the rights, otherwise it creates precident. Once there is precidence for them allowing people to run all over with their properties, it becomes almost impossible to protect them in court. What they SHOULD have done is contacted the group, created a special contract with stipulations limiting them soley to this one and current fanservice project, and let the project run with their blessing and the legal understanding this was a fan made non-prof that extended no rights from the Chrono Trigger liscence to them or anyone else outside Squenix."

In addition, I'm convinced this move by Square Enix is not motivated by greed; they're simply doing what thousands of companies are forced to do in order to protect their intellectual property every day.

It's tragic that these fan projects get fox'd like this, but the brains behind the project undoubtedly saw this coming for years what with the fate of the Chrono Trigger Ressurection project.

Fun Game: Bet on how unlikely it is that anyone will take the rightful indignation they feel over this tragedy and actually work to change an aging behemoth like International Copyright Law!

CapnJack:
This is one of the major problems with copyright and why it needs a complete overhaul - perhaps it needs to be dismantled altogether. Copyright was put in place to balance the rights of the consumer between the rights of the corporation, not to give full and unrestricted rights to the consumer. More importantly, even if this was in complete accordance with the laws of today, Square Enix would still be complete fucking morons for shutting a project like this down. Shutting it down only serves as an outright attack of fans of the original Chrono Trigger, and when you give your fanbase the shaft, you're only hurting yourself. If this game was allowed to materialize, it could pose NO THREAT to Square Enix, since it is just a ROM, and, in all likelihood, it would just increase the sales in Chrono Trigger-related products.

But I don't feel bad for the people who worked five years to create this, because their compliance was their choice. What they should have done is shut down the site, shut down everything related to it, and leak the project on to bit torrent. That way, their five years of hardwork is mostly not lost, everybody gets to appreciate it, and Square Enix can't take action against them.

I was going to write a long and eloquent post on the obsolescence of our copyright system and how it is now working against the creation of new content, which it was originally intended to encourage. Then I saw that this fine gentleman had beat me to it. So in internet parlance:
^this^

Seriously, I hope the code is still there, and maybe the game will be finished and released somewhat under the radar. Once released, eventually it will be found by those who want to find it(and Square can't cease and desist the entire internet).

Im fuckign waitign for KH3 to coem out why the fuck they release 3 other KH games that arnt KH3?

Khell_Sennet:

Teiraa:
Square Enix is being a bunch of cockbites latly

Lately? They've always been self-righteous dicksmurfs.

Ever seen Video Games Live? They can't stop VGLive from playing Final Fantasy's music, because owner/composer/creator Nobuo Uematsu gave permission to play it, but Squenix will be eight years dead before they allow VGLive to show a single clip from any of their games. Rah rah rah!

So, when it came time to play the Kingdom Hearts score, Disney was more than happy to provide 100% of the visual end of the presentation.

Now tell me, who wins and who loses with that?

That alsp explains why there is a bunch of fan art during "One-winged Angel."

What it always amazes me in such cases is that these people who make unauthorized use of brands and trademarked stuff have a lot of talent, yet while they know what they're going to mess with (C&D, etc) they decide to go with it instead of making something new and original. Or a 'spiritual' sequel. Or at least modify the game enough so it won't be any legal restrictions.

(it worked for BugFactory in Tombrandt Driftwood's case)

CapnJack:
This is one of the major problems with copyright and why it needs a complete overhaul - perhaps it needs to be dismantled altogether. Copyright was put in place to balance the rights of the consumer between the rights of the corporation, not to give full and unrestricted rights to the consumer. More importantly, even if this was in complete accordance with the laws of today, Square Enix would still be complete fucking morons for shutting a project like this down. Shutting it down only serves as an outright attack of fans of the original Chrono Trigger, and when you give your fanbase the shaft, you're only hurting yourself. If this game was allowed to materialize, it could pose NO THREAT to Square Enix, since it is just a ROM, and, in all likelihood, it would just increase the sales in Chrono Trigger-related products.

But I don't feel bad for the people who worked five years to create this, because their compliance was their choice. What they should have done is shut down the site, shut down everything related to it, and leak the project on to bit torrent. That way, their five years of hardwork is mostly not lost, everybody gets to appreciate it, and Square Enix can't take action against them.

QFT. Copyright law is out of hand.

And if I was them, I would do exactly that. No fucking way am I throwing away 5 years of hard work. Not even for the threat of lawsuit. What are they going to do? sue for damages? WHAT DAMAGES?!

Since they already did this exact same thing with a Chrono-Triger themed game that was written from scratch (Chrono Trigger Resurrection) a few years ago I'm not surprised at all by this. This was a ROM hack, that means that they took the original programming and altered it. That's definitely infringement, it's a modified version of Square's product.

I'm normally against IP holders over-extending their rights but in this case it's totally justified. If you take someone's product, modify it a bit and distribute it, then it is infringement.

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