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You're not English. | |
Why does anyone even CARE about the retards at the ESRB? Why aren't we showing THEM the middle finger? They're a completely useless entity. If anything they're a cancerous growth on the gaming world... | |
I say someone should send the ESRB a letter containing a hand (no need for a real hand, mind you) will all fingers but the middle one bitten off. | |
See I thought the two fingers up was deliberate, like a great fuck off to the undead hordes, but given Valves American it could just be a coincidence. | |
Edit: The federal government was going to step and create a ratings system if one was not created within a year. | |
Yeah I don't know which person in the ESRB decided to make that call but that is in poor taste. The judgement call lacked common sense. Someone was reading way too deep in L4D's marketing of the game and game "symbol". We all know that you can give the bird by using the middle finger except it is illogical that if a third L4D game came out that only the middle finger would be used. Valve would have to make a real stretch just to get the game symbol(the hand)to give the middle finger to the audience. EDIT FOR UPDATE:So from what you are giving us Malygris the best I can rationalize is that the reason the ESRB making a complaint to valve is not the actual picture itself but the direction the picture is going. So it is essentially in the person's mind and thoughts that Valve would eventually make use of the L4D symbol to give the middle finger. Okay I'm all for consumer education from the ESRB but that is going too far out of one's way to interpret a picture into "horrible thoughts". They need to focus on the reality of the picture and not the possible allusions the picture might give or what valve might use in the future. Still a horrible call by the ESRB organization and I would like to know who specifically made that statement to make the ESRB look ridiculous and lose credibility. | |
Oh ESRB, you cause more problems than you solve. | |
This. Also whose the man in the pic? He should be banned for posing so awkwardly. | |
It's obviously not that, the new logo has two fingers up aswell. | |
The ESRB doesn't even play the games it rates about 90% of the time. They give a game a rating based on a 3 or so minute movie provided by the company showing them what the game is and how far it goes into certain elements. They then sit down and debate certain points of the video and request more material if necessary to make a decision on the games rating. The ESRB has, for the most part, a requirement that you be a parent to join. This isn't terrible, but sometimes you get things like the article posted above because they are too stupid to realize that your kids do/see a lot worse than a cartoon hand that has been chewed for all but two of its fingers. I'd understand if it was covered in blood or had the limbs hanging off, but you can't really even tell that it is bone under there, who ever ate those fingers was very careful not to leave a mess. Just like Gamespot, I don't understand how the ESRB comes to the conclusions they do when it comes to reviews and ratings. It's almost like they pull one out of a hat and make a case based on that. | |
We as gamers need to band together and get game companies to stop endorsing the ESRB, their tyranny is just annoying at this point. | |
ESRB sucks I hate them just let games be games. But I do love how they rate some games they consider like people kissing as SEXUAL CONTENT and just a guy without a shirt is PARTIAL NUDITY and if someone is like paper cut it's BLOOD AND GORE finally if someone is like drinking beer it's USE OF ALCOHOL and USE OF DRUGS. | |
Oh, I don't think it was intentional whatsoever. Like Malygris and most people posting here so far, the folks at Valve probably didn't think about how the V sign with the palm turned inward is considered an obscene gesture in a lot of places overseas. But that explains why the ESRB has a problem with this particular configuration of the hand.
Yes, but it doesn't have the ring and pinky fully down. Small differences like that when it comes to gestures can make all the difference. | |
I doubt that ESRB care about the number of fingers, but more the fact that swearing of any kind is pretty much banned in any sort of advertising and the 2 finger gesture in Europe is fairly bad (not sure about the US though) | |
/me facepalm | |
Replace the ring finger and eat the middle finger. I'll take my royalty check now. | |
Pretty funny how as said in the article a game full to the rim of violence and shooting is fine whereas two severed fingers is ludicrous! But it probably is because the poster makes it looks like it is giving two fingers up to people. Although it would seem the same with the new poster even more so since that has the fingers curled back leaving the two up... So I dunno. Just a stupid decision I'm guessing. | |
In the US it literally signals the number 2. We don't blow such things out of proportion here. There are very few gestures here that really piss us off. EDIT: Or peace. It can signal peace. | |
I agree with all that except: | |
Maybe ESRB is against peace | |
Just be glad we have the ESRB, it was either them or government intervention, and do you really want the government getting involved? (Answers no btw) I wish we could get beyond this silly rating system and just have come parental responsilibty. Watch what yours kids are playing parents! | |
blow out of proportion? what? its just like the middle finger expression, but means 'fuck you' | |
If the palm is facing outward (such as the Peace sign) then we have no problem with it. The story goes that it became offensive because they are the 2 fingers used to pull a longbow and the French would cut them off any british archers they captured. The British would then stick them up at the French to annoy them showing they still have the fingers and could still shoot. The best comparison would be a company using a hand sticking its middle finger up and thinking thats acceptable. | |
Thumbs are OK becuase its not like we need them or anything but bite off the precious ring fingers and pinkie, oh no its suddenly a humongous no-no! | |
the two fingered salute as described above was invented by the english in medievil times. if the french caught an english longbowman, they cut off their index and middle fingers so they could not fire a bow. this led to at the start of any fight, the archers would all show the v sign to show insult to the french they were about to fire upon. i (being born and living in the uk) do not and have never found this offensive in any way. what puzzles me though, is the reason cited is that it looks like the missing fingers have been chewed/eaten off. | |
Why is everyone complaining about the ESRB? Granted this is stupid, but we need them. Their rating system is a major counter argument against many video game protesters. | |
The ESRB is better than the alternative. At the moment, it's a voluntary organization, and it's somewhat reasonable. Get rid of it, and we get a state-run organization, who's likely to be more draconian and limit creative freedom more. | |
You didn't read the article, now did you? OT; I hate this kind of stuff, it doesn't even make sense! | |
the middle finger is another medievil invention. if you met the king, as a mark of respect, you would kiss his finger. although it was usually the finger he used for all the nasty things like scratching himself and picking his nose, use your imagination... incidentally, i have never really found this offensive either. | |
Oh noes that would be bad | |
American business always has to bite the bullet. When we go to Japan, we bow, give cards with two hands face up and towards them, etc, etc. When a person from Japan comes here, we bow, give cards with two hands face up and towards them, etc, etc. People always expect American business to conform to their standards of business, even when it comes to things like bribing, which is not always considered a terrible thing in other countries, even if it can get you arrested here. We have to find a way to do it on the books. In America, that symbol means nothing but good things, I'm sorry it means bad things to you, but to me it's the number 2 and the symbol for peace. Quit trying to shit on my parade, or get a game developer that develops in your country and will actually give a shit. | |
If this is true then this all makes a lot more sense and is perfectly reasonable. | |
I wouldn't say they're entirely useless...they give people a definite reason to complain about videogame violence in todays society. Whens the last time you've seen someone majorly upset about a T rated game (Bully not included because they went off the idea of GTA in a school and not what the game actually was) | |
...was that sarcastic? | |
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ESRB to Valve: Mind Your Fingers - UPDATED
Valve's upcoming Left 4 Dead 2 introduces new melee combat options that will let players massacre the undead with frying pans, baseball bats, axes and chainsaws, but the two missing fingers in the game's original promotional material was too much for ESRB censors to bear.
As part of its E3 coverage Ars Technica posted a photo of Valve writer Chet Faliszek standing in front of a large Left 4 Dead 2 poster. Sharp-eyed readers may have noticed that the image behind Faliszek is a bit different than the ones we've seen since: The extended index and middle fingers are the same, but the ring and pinkie fingers appear to have been completely chewed off.
This, according to ESRB censors, crossed the line. Making a game about shooting, stabbing, hacking, bludgeoning and burning rapacious hordes of the undead in a desperate, blood-soaked bid for survival? That's okay. Promoting it using an image of a hand with two missing fingers? That's going too far, and Valve was told that it wouldn't be allowed to use the image in future marketing materials.
Current promotional material now shows the famous Left 4 Dead hand with those two fingers bent back, rather than bitten off. The thumb, however, remains missing and presumed eaten, which leads me to wonder about the specifics of ESRB policies. Are thumbs seen as somehow less valuable than fingers? Does the ESRB have limits on the number of digits that can be chewed off by ravenous zombies? Who makes up these rules, anyway?
For the record, I prefer the look of the image with all fingers attached, but that doesn't stop the whole thing from appearing just a wee bit silly on the surface.
UPDATE: The ESRB got back to me last night with the following: "The industry-adopted advertising and marketing guidelines can be found here: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/principles_guidlines.jsp. Those should answer your question."
Fairly standard stuff, except the answer wasn't really there at all. There are a few possibilities, however, in the "guidelines" for responsible advertising practices:
Graphic and/or excessive depictions of blood and/or gore, for example: Excessive and gratuitous amounts of blood and/or fleshy body parts, blood spurting from wounds - Doesn't really apply, does it? The hand looks more desiccated than gory, there's really no blood here to speak of.
Allusions or depictions of torture, mutilation or sadism, for example: Dismemberment, decapitation - Well, there are definitely some missing fingers in the original image. Problem is, there was also a missing thumb and it's still missing. If the ESRB does have a specific acceptable limit of the number of digits that can be gnawed off by a zombie, I was unable to find it.
Allusions or depictions of necrophilia or any other sexual acts, for example: Sexual fetishes - Okay, that's a stretch but I thought it was amusing that the ESRB has a specific advertising guideline against necrophilia.
Crude and/or offensive language, for example: Profanity, excessively violent/sexual ad copy, offensive gestures (e.g., giving the finger), offensive song lyrics, hate speech (e.g., racial epithets) - This is a possibility except, as has been discussed in the forum, the ESRB is a North American agency and the two-finger gesture is, as far as I know, uniquely English. I can't see the ESRB making a fuss over a regional obscene gesture from another continent and if it is, European gamers should be very nervous indeed.
Bottom line? We still don't know exactly why the ESRB gave the thumbs-down (so to speak) to the original Left 4 Dead 2 ads and unless Valve reveals the specific complaint we probably never will.
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