Malygris:
Tekken series director Katsuhiro Harada says the concept of unlockable characters in fighting games made sense in the past but is "outdated" in the modern videogame market.
...
Fortunately for Tekken fans, Harada feels your pain. "Why we locked the characters originally was that in the arcades, it was kind of to extend the life of the game by gradually unlocking characters. And also with the home versions as well, because you can rent games or whatever, it was to protect us against that," he explained.

... and there you have it. The only reason unlocking was there was to milk money out of players who don't understand or like fighting games in the first place.

Incidentally, apart from Dural, Virtua Fighter hasn't ventured into unlockable character territory at all.

Nutcase:

Malygris:
Tekken series director Katsuhiro Harada says the concept of unlockable characters in fighting games made sense in the past but is "outdated" in the modern videogame market.
...
Fortunately for Tekken fans, Harada feels your pain. "Why we locked the characters originally was that in the arcades, it was kind of to extend the life of the game by gradually unlocking characters. And also with the home versions as well, because you can rent games or whatever, it was to protect us against that," he explained.

... and there you have it. The only reason unlocking was there was to milk money out of players who don't understand or like fighting games in the first place.

Incidentally, apart from Dural, Virtua Fighter hasn't ventured into unlockable character territory at all.

And now the purpose is to make the players that do understand and like fighting games pay to unlock them. Not a change for the better.

Lord_Jaroh:

Nutcase:

Malygris:
Tekken series director Katsuhiro Harada says the concept of unlockable characters in fighting games made sense in the past but is "outdated" in the modern videogame market.
...
Fortunately for Tekken fans, Harada feels your pain. "Why we locked the characters originally was that in the arcades, it was kind of to extend the life of the game by gradually unlocking characters. And also with the home versions as well, because you can rent games or whatever, it was to protect us against that," he explained.

... and there you have it. The only reason unlocking was there was to milk money out of players who don't understand or like fighting games in the first place.

Incidentally, apart from Dural, Virtua Fighter hasn't ventured into unlockable character territory at all.

And now the purpose is to make the players that do understand and like fighting games pay to unlock them. Not a change for the better.

Agreed.

Morne

I like unlockables...as long as they are reasonable. Alot of the fun in Smash Bros games is unlocking teh characters, as one example. Though some do it bad, like Call of Duty 4 and on. But those are game swaying unlockables, and not having the Kar98 rifle really puts me off. (My best and favorite WW2 gun)
I've deleted memory just to re-unlock things in some games even.

Nutcase:

Malygris:
Tekken series director Katsuhiro Harada says the concept of unlockable characters in fighting games made sense in the past but is "outdated" in the modern videogame market.
...
Fortunately for Tekken fans, Harada feels your pain. "Why we locked the characters originally was that in the arcades, it was kind of to extend the life of the game by gradually unlocking characters. And also with the home versions as well, because you can rent games or whatever, it was to protect us against that," he explained.

... and there you have it. The only reason unlocking was there was to milk money out of players who don't understand or like fighting games in the first place.

Incidentally, apart from Dural, Virtua Fighter hasn't ventured into unlockable character territory at all.

Precisely. What he really means is "Unlockables that you don't have to pay for are outdated".

NoMoreSanity:

Psychosocial:

NoMoreSanity:
I don't agree with that, it gives no reason to play through a game otherwise. Just have a small portion of the characters locked with majority playable from the start.

I strongly disagree.

I sure as hell don't play fighting games to unlock characters, I mean, what the hell? It's all about going online or having someone grabbing a second controller and winning, not about unlocking shit.

It's not about that either. It's about either button-mashing till you win, or going insane enough to learn every possible combo, than lose to a button-masher.

You'll only go insane if you try to memorize everyone's combos (at least that's how it is with me). For just a couple of fighters, it's actually pretty fun to learn their movesets in and out.

Hmm I can see the mind set of what he's thinking but really most people replay a game for unlocking the extras. Maybe with online play this will outrule it but not everyone has online play

bjj hero:
About time, I still havent unlocked everyone on SF4. I just want to battle my friends or others over the internet. Spend hours trying to beat cheap bosses with charecters I dont like in order to unlock whoever is not fun.

Its just a pain in the arse.

Same here

I loved unlocking characters on Tekken.

God fucking dammit.

I've always thought that unlocking characters only worked in games where it tied into the story. But this is a BEP, so the plot is a load of thinly spread crap. Hooray for no unlockable characters! (Except for the final boss, who should be unlocked by beating the entire story mode without losing a fight, just like Tekken 1)

Everyone who doesn't like unlocks has quite obviously never played Budokai 3, the satisfaction of beating the last boss and then being able to use him to pwn the computer is infinitely more satisfying than just having him from the beginning, if there's nothing to unlock whats the point in playing?

Vriggchan:
i would go to war over this arguement. unlockable characters are the purpose of my playing fighting games.

NoMoreSanity:
I don't agree with that, it gives no reason to play through a game otherwise. Just have a small portion of the characters locked with majority playable from the start.

fully heatedly agree with this statement!

It's called multiplayer.

I disagree strongly. While I agree that SSBB's biggest flaw was that over a third of the entire cast needed to be unlocked (including, as Yahtzee pointed out, its most hyped characters), unlockable characters are a significant source of accomplishment...and a great source for fanservice easter eggs. It was incredibly cool when people received the first copies of Fate/Unlimited Codes, and the whole fandom found that they'd added a Fate/Zero character in as a secret.

Look, unlockable content is often necessary in video games.
Despite fun being the core reason we play video games, rewards must
be given out for the work we put into them.
We spend a lot of time in these virtual worlds, and exploring them should
uncover gifts for our pleasures.

I'll tell you what, though, no unlockable costume, or concept art picture compares
to a fully functioning playable character.

Unlockable characters are prizes of the highest substance.

ShredHead:
Everyone who doesn't like unlocks has quite obviously never played Budokai 3, the satisfaction of beating the last boss and then being able to use him to pwn the computer is infinitely more satisfying than just having him from the beginning, if there's nothing to unlock whats the point in playing?

If the only thing that game has going for it is unlocks, then that must be a bad game to begin with. If that was your point, then sure, bad games need crutches like that.

But some of us just want to bring a game over, pick our favourite characters and hit start. Forcing me to play through an atrocious single-player story portion tacked on to what originally was an arcade game isn't really going to win any points. And usually, it's no different from grinding in an MMO in that it isn't hard, just tedious. There are better ways to teach the player the game mechanics. There are better ways to spend your single-player gaming time. I'm here for the multiplayer, thanks.

Mornelithe:

What he really means is, the days of 'free' unlocks are over. Instead, we'll nickel and dime you to DEATH, using DLC. Bastards.

That was my thought exactly.

Solution: built-in cheats. Ever since I was young, I had to use Game Genir or some such thing for cheats. That doesn't make sense to me, and never has. I bought the game. If I want my characters to be invincible, or I want everything unlocked from the get-go, there's no reason developers shouldn't give me that ability.

This would please everyone. Personally, I love unlocking stuff in games, especially when it's a surprise. I like playing and eventually having something new unlocked as a reward. It's fun. But plenty of people don't have the time or desire to dedicate time to games with unlockables, so giving people the option to unlock everything from the get-go or play it normally would please almost everyone.

This does smell like an excuse for DLC$. That I don't worry about so much, it's actually a logical next step for businesses. What I fear is DLC$ that gives players an edge on multiplayer. Not everybody can cough up money for such stuff, especially these days. May as well say multiplayer games are for rich people only. (Or families willing to go into the black hole of credit card debt.)
Might be a good time for a good article on being a gamer that's fiscally responsible while facing an uphill curve in gaming costs.

CapnJack:
Solution: built-in cheats. Ever since I was young, I had to use Game Genir or some such thing for cheats. That doesn't make sense to me, and never has. I bought the game. If I want my characters to be invincible, or I want everything unlocked from the get-go, there's no reason developers shouldn't give me that ability.

This would please everyone. Personally, I love unlocking stuff in games, especially when it's a surprise. I like playing and eventually having something new unlocked as a reward. It's fun. But plenty of people don't have the time or desire to dedicate time to games with unlockables, so giving people the option to unlock everything from the get-go or play it normally would please almost everyone.

Game Genie didn't create water from sand, it utilized code that was already in the game, therefore implementing built-in cheats. What it did was allow easier access to those cheats. And cheats are a whole other bottle of chaos to get into. Single player cheats are fine, if you want to spoil the game for yourself, go ahead. But if you are talking cheats to get stuff for multiplayer, then I hope to never see you in any of my games. That's bad karma from the get-go and doesn't win you any friends.
As for giving the clear option on "Do you want all characters from Start?" That would give you the choice, yes, but most likely the developers would make it a one time option upon first boot. Best choose wisely, because there won't be any going back short of deleting your memory and probably a record of some good fights just to choose the other option.

Unlockable characters was one thing I loved about fighters! It gave me a sense of accomplishment when I did something and went back to the character selection screen only to notice that someone new showed up at the party, uninvited of course, but welcome all the same. Then when I played Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection I was so peeved that every single character was already there! It gave me no reason to go through story mode other than train myself, because admittedly my skills were rusty at the time as my only prior Tekken experience was 3.

Unlocking characters brings something new to the game, and if they are all there waiting for you as soon as you run the game, all it is is fodder for a party or online play.

Personally, I think fighters should get an option to set the character selection to "All" or "Single Player," the latter referring to how ever many you've personally unlocked. That way you can have a go at the challenge of unlocking characters, some whom would undoubtably require certain things to be done first in order to be a challenge. With this option you could also have the cast ready for a show for your friends when they crash into your house as soon as they've gotten the word that you have the new [insert fighter here].

Hey, I like unlockables, ESPECIALLY in games like Super Smash Bros. Gives you something to strive for, atleast in my opinion.

I've always hated unlockables, both in fighting games and in racing games... too bad I'm not a fan of Tekken! :P

Unlockables in fighting games should really only be limited to vanity things (like alternate costumes) and OP or gimped characters. Otherwise there's really no good game design reason to block off certain characters. If players won't finish your game without the unlockable characters to motivate them, then your game's fighting mechanics must be pretty damn boring.

I guess that's why I don't understand people who say they like unlockables because it "extends the play time of the game". It just sounds like the game you're playing is mediocre to begin with, and you need a carrot on a stick in order to justify spending more time with it.

boholikeu:
I guess that's why I don't understand people who say they like unlockables because it "extends the play time of the game". It just sounds like the game you're playing is mediocre to begin with, and you need a carrot on a stick in order to justify spending more time with it.

Unlocking a new character gets you the carrot.

NeutralDrow:

boholikeu:
I guess that's why I don't understand people who say they like unlockables because it "extends the play time of the game". It just sounds like the game you're playing is mediocre to begin with, and you need a carrot on a stick in order to justify spending more time with it.

Unlocking a new character gets you the carrot.

Well, if that really is the reason they play fighters then I know of a game with endless re-playability: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155898/?searchterm=Guitar%20Queer-O

ShredHead:
Everyone who doesn't like unlocks has quite obviously never played Budokai 3, the satisfaction of beating the last boss and then being able to use him to pwn the computer is infinitely more satisfying than just having him from the beginning, if there's nothing to unlock whats the point in playing?

Fun?

While I tend to get bored of fighting games I played quite a few rounds of Swords & Soldiers skirmish despite there being no unlockables there. Those were much more varied than repeated story mode runs in fighting games because I could make my own variety by pursuing different strategies and sometimes even trying fairly outlandish ones (like teching straight to Zen Masters) to see if I can pull something off. It depends on how much variety a game lets you get out of the mechanics and I've never been able to get a lot of that out of a fighting game.

Well, the exception would be Scarlet Weather Rhapsody which has a pretty awesome story mode since it's not just regular battles with a few OP bosses thrown in, every battle is against a super-powered enemy you have to beat by exploiting their pattern. Playing that with different attack sets (especially OP ones like Marisa's master spark and Suica's black hole fireworks which are REALLY powerful against story mode bosses) and against different enemies made playing through all story modes quite fun even though you unlock the two locked characters after the first time you play the mode.

Theres a surprise but im not complaining

I don't like the idea of having to pay for fighters, but neither am I fond of all the unlocking I had to do in Tekken 5. I mean, if the method of unlocking is innovative or their are multiple ways to unlock the guys (see SSBM and King of Fighters XI), then it's no problem. But when I have to clear the stupid Story Mode a billion times and fight one of the worst fighting game bosses in video game history, then it just plain sucks.

I play fighting games to get good with a few characters and have fun. If the game is good enough, the replay value will be near-endless regardless of what the unlockables are. Also, joke characters need to die forever. They're horrible and I hate them. They tend to be either way overpowered or completely worthless. If a game dev can make 3 joke characters, he or she can take the time to come up with another proper fighter.

I have a solution: in the options menu, stick in a "Party Time!" option that unlocks all the characters until you turn it off again, whereupon it will re-lock all the characters you haven't unlocked yet by playing the single-player.

Both parties are now satisfied.

What? I love unlockable characters.

Kept me playing Dynasty Warriors 3 for a year.

Woe Is You:

ShredHead:
Everyone who doesn't like unlocks has quite obviously never played Budokai 3, the satisfaction of beating the last boss and then being able to use him to pwn the computer is infinitely more satisfying than just having him from the beginning, if there's nothing to unlock whats the point in playing?

If the only thing that game has going for it is unlocks, then that must be a bad game to begin with. If that was your point, then sure, bad games need crutches like that.

But some of us just want to bring a game over, pick our favourite characters and hit start. Forcing me to play through an atrocious single-player story portion tacked on to what originally was an arcade game isn't really going to win any points. And usually, it's no different from grinding in an MMO in that it isn't hard, just tedious. There are better ways to teach the player the game mechanics. There are better ways to spend your single-player gaming time. I'm here for the multiplayer, thanks.

Sorry could you point to the part in my post where I said that unlocks were the only good thing? Please?

Oh that's right, I never said anything like that.
Budokai 3 being a fighting game based off an anime, the story isn't just "tacked on" it's an actual story. And there are modes in Budokai 3 that I'm sure would even challenge you, so lets try and do some research before making statements like that next time.

ShredHead:

Sorry could you point to the part in my post where I said that unlocks were the only good thing? Please?

Well, you were implying that the game would be majorly hampered if there were no unlockables. If it really is so, then there's a problem with the game, isn't there? I'm just saying a good fighting game doesn't need unlockables to be enjoyed fully, with SF3: Third Strike and Garou being full proof of that.

ShredHead:

Budokai 3 being a fighting game based off an anime, the story isn't just "tacked on" it's an actual story.

I wasn't aware DBZ had actual story. At least one worth mentioning. In that sense its story is basically on par with, well, just about any fighting game out there.

ShredHead:

And there are modes in Budokai 3 that I'm sure would even challenge you, so lets try and do some research before making statements like that next time.

Is it interesting challenge or the kind of SNK challenge that has no purpose than to piss off the player? I haven't played a fighting game so far that hasn't done challenge the latter way.

Woe Is You:

ShredHead:

Sorry could you point to the part in my post where I said that unlocks were the only good thing? Please?

Well, you were implying that the game would be majorly hampered if there were no unlockables. If it really is so, then there's a problem with the game, isn't there? I'm just saying a good fighting game doesn't need unlockables to be enjoyed fully, with SF3: Third Strike and Garou being full proof of that.

ShredHead:

Budokai 3 being a fighting game based off an anime, the story isn't just "tacked on" it's an actual story.

I wasn't aware DBZ had actual story. At least one worth mentioning. In that sense its story is basically on par with, well, just about any fighting game out there.

No I wasn't, I just said it gives you more satisfaction, I didn't say a single thing about the gameplay.. I don't know where you're getting this idea.

And I guess now you are aware that it does.

ShredHead:

And I guess now you are aware that it does.

Yes, DBZ does have a story but the story is on the level of a Mario game. An excuse for people to beat shit up. I've watched the series enough to know that much. That's exactly why the whole talk about story in DBZ confuses me so much.

ShredHead:

No I wasn't, I just said it gives you more satisfaction, I didn't say a single thing about the gameplay.. I don't know where you're getting this idea.

Your exact words were "if there's nothing to unlock, what's the point in playing?" and to me that sounds like an admission that the game isn't worth playing if there aren't any unlockables. In my books, that means the game is bad and not worth playing even with the unlockables.

But the question about interesting challenge as opposed to SNK challenge still stands.