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News Room Contributor  Posts: 8880 Joined: 12 Nov 2002     | |
On the Record  Posts: 6218 Joined: 7 Feb 2008     | It doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but one should be aiming to be like Stephen Spielberg, Micheal Mann or Luc Besson rather than Micheal Bay... they're critical darlings AND make financially successful action flicks. I think Cliffy B is just covering up the fact that he tells a craptastic story and isn't willing to hire decent writers for his games. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1019 Joined: 12 Apr 2008     | While I agree that RPG elements in FPS games are the future, I don't agree that filling FPS games up with dialog and story is. Bioshock was successful because it used the formula of choice. Remove that choice and it sucks. RPG's are about choice. |
Muckraker  Posts: 297 Joined: 19 Apr 2009     |
Its this idea in particular that will never advance our medium of entertainment |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2594 Joined: 16 Feb 2009     | I stopped caring the same second I read Cliffy B's name, he hasn't made a single good game since freaking Jack Jazzrabbit. Though Shadow Complex might change that. Well, my opinion on Cliffy B is that he's nothing but a real life troll. But yeah, for the first time in his life, he actually has somewhat of a point. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1205 Joined: 21 May 2008    | Why is it that most people in the gaming industry that make good points in terms of the progress that is needed to bring their own genre and franchise further never seem to be the same ones that are actually doing it? It's like they're all drawing circles on a piece of paper, looking over to the few people drawing triangles saying that everyone should make a triangle if they really want to improve their art... and then proceed to draw an even bigger circle. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1939 Joined: 31 Aug 2008  | I agree with unending support and I'm one to jump on the Cliffy B. Hatewagon in a second. However, less so BioShock, the shooter with RPG elements, but Fallout 3, the RPG with shooter elements. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1035 Joined: 29 Apr 2008  | Well if by RPGs they mean upgradeable charicter and gun stats then i'm all for it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1892 Joined: 26 Apr 2009    | Imagine if they decided to make this into a JRPG style. Yahtzee would flip. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1284 Joined: 1 Jul 2009   | Cliff buttfucksky better not fuck up gears of war. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1577 Joined: 6 Oct 2008     |
Well then, Mister B, you and Tim Schafer are on two separate wavelengths. And while Gears of War IS pretty good, I'll stick to Psychonauts, if only to set squirrels and girl scouts on fire. That said, I think he may be on to something with FPS games quasi-evolving into RPGs as a form of gaming evolution. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 119 Joined: 4 Jun 2009   | Gears of war...with rpg. Normally I love an fps/rpg, but this sounds bad. |
On the Record Posts: 6218 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
But he already hates Cliffy B... he'd probably just make some derrisive comment about it being about expected. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1739 Joined: 17 Apr 2009    |
you actually enjoyed the choice in that game?? it was soo sketchy i didnt enjoyed it, i actually didnīt cared about the "choice" i just wanted to kill people the "search" and "development" of a character by "training" is more in tune with what an RPG is (IMHO) |
Wordsmith Extraordinaire  Posts: 11799 Joined: 13 Feb 2008     |
Pointless hyperactive action with cliches dug from the barrel, got it.
Yeah, because when I think heroes, I think of Vanguard rather than Tim Schafer. Why make original stuff when you can jump on the latest bandwagon? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1892 Joined: 26 Apr 2009 |
I was more thinking along the line of if this guy was right for a change and all shooters took this course to become outsourced JRPGs. Then again, I'd probably flip out too. |
BANNED  Posts: 3668 Joined: 8 Feb 2009     | Shoter RPGs are great like Fallout 3, but I don't think there will ever be a Gears of War RPG since RPGs have good stories. User was banned for: dam christmas brings out the babes . (Permanent) |
Red Guard  Posts: 4187 Joined: 18 Sep 2008  |
Cliffy B may be a bit of a dink sometimes, but this quote is actually really excellent, and I completely agree with him. Say what you will about the Halo, Gears of War, and similar game franchises...but numbers don't lie. And I'm not talking the ratings score numbers. I'm talking the millions of games sold. Halo, in particular, seems to receive a healthy dose of bashing on the internet, but the game sold (And still sells) very very well. Which means that millions of people are enjoying the game. Then you get people like Tim Schafer who makes great games (Grim Fandango and Psychonauts, as examples for those who don't know) and are critically acclaimed...and sell like crap. Everyone says it's awesome, so why isn't it selling? I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why they flop at the register, but the bottom line is the bottom line: How much did it sell? And Cliffy B is that guy that he describes. People ridicule him and the Gears narrative and the like for being so brutish and childish and cliche...but in the end, he's selling millions of copies of his game and falling ass-backwards into money. So who is really laughing here? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2161 Joined: 19 Jun 2009 | Shooters plus rpg is a no no,action rpg ok,but shooters i play if i wanna kill stuff,rpg when i want story,gameplay and to spend a lot of time on |
News Room Contributor  Posts: 2412 Joined: 11 Sep 2008   | "I wanted orange!" - Marcus Fenix |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4797 Joined: 15 Jun 2008  |
Cliffy B is not working on Shadow Complex, Cloud, a company owned by EPIC games are the masterminds behind said game. As for "he hasn't made a good game"; I'm pretty sure a large percentage of gamers would disagree - with the Unreal Tournament and Gears of War on his pedigree. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4797 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
This quote is extremely difficult to understand... What's wrong with a good story in a shooter? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1725 Joined: 10 Sep 2008  |
The last thing we need is for people to have to shoot twenty rats to be able to carry more ammo. Fallout and Bioshock were cool, but put much more RPG into them and you get a pile of poo. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 707 Joined: 5 Feb 2008    |
I think Bioshock was successful because it was "omg deep story." Not really choice. There wasn't much choice. It was kill or not kill little girls. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2161 Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
No mate its not the story,would you really like to go collecting herbs for your inventory and get quests in shooters? |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 730 Joined: 10 Feb 2009   | Bleh. RPG videogames tend to be about numbers more than about skill while shooters are supposed to be about, well, shooting. I don't want my games to tell me I can't damage the large rat because I didn't waste enough time shooting small rats. Hellgate suffered somewhat from enemies taking too much damage to down which made the weapons feel really pathetic. I also don't think that endless cutscenes will improve the experience of nailing dudes to walls with huge stakes or shooting dudes with shurikens and lightning. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2594 Joined: 16 Feb 2009 |
Quake 3 Arena is in my opinion better than Unreal Tournament on every aspect. Also, Gears of Wars covering system, which I assume is the only good thing with those games, is, as most would say, a complete ripoff of a game named Kill.Switch. or something. So he doesn't really deserve the fame he gets, in my book at least. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1739 Joined: 31 Mar 2008    |
I take great offense to this piece of unintentional slander, Root. Still, I understand Cliffy's reasoning but that doesn't keep me from considering him an ingrate for believing it. From what he's witnessed GTA and Halo clones make money, and depending on the game usually lots of it. From that point of view why bother trying to "be creative"? *pfft* It isn't like we can exactly "stop" developers and publishers from perpetuating this, either. Believe me, we've tried, and we've gotten questionable results... Anyway, right about now we get to where I start considering Cliffy B to be a worthless cretin. People like, say, Tim Schafer may not make money hand over fist because he's taking risks by being innovative and trying new things, but he does have something that Cliffy doesn't have: respect and a good reputation. Ask around these forums alone. Most people that know who Shafer is will have nothing but good things to say about him while on the other hand they'll offer up the opinion that Cliffy B is a douche bag. Keep in mind that all of these comments are coming from a person that grew up playing Unreal Tournament, so I'm well aware that he has been involved, both directly and otherwise, in making games that are considered by a widespread group of people to be "good". Still, his comments show that he outright endorses the stagnation of our industry by using the same concepts over and over again instead of taking a risk and trying something new. Despite all he has done (which is a lot), he will never have my respect because of this. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2303 Joined: 24 Jan 2008   |
You have a good point, but consider this. People attribute games like Gears and Halo as the main reason why gaming is starting to become more "mainstream", and as a result, they see it as a death mark on gaming. Look at Shadows of The Colossus, killer7, Beyond Good and Evil, Okami and Psychonauts, the common thing about them is that they are all games with different, more precarious ideas in games, they were all critically acclaimed, but they sold terribly. They're bound to form cult followings, but what I'm saying is that tastes change. FPS games won't matter a damn thing in the next 2-3 console generations. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4072 Joined: 15 Aug 2008 |
... How does one fuck up gears of war? Are you implying that adding something deeper than Explosions and gore is "fucking it up"? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2303 Joined: 24 Jan 2008 |
I call bullshit. It's called capitalism. Developers and publishers are scared shitless of trying out new concepts to work with and make games with because they won't be able to turn a profit. They stick to established molds, and build their own concepts, borrowed or not, in the game, regardless of quality. It's not a question of creativity, it's a question of taking risks. |
Paperboy  Posts: 32 Joined: 2 Nov 2008    |
I agree, Too Human tried filling space with unskippable dialogue, and, while Mass Effect did it better, there was still too much dialogue, and more action and challenge is needed in both cases. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1019 Joined: 12 Apr 2008 |
You kind of missed the point. The GAMEPLAY had choice duderino. You can choose not only how you want to play the game, but you can choose how you want to deal with the situations given to you. You can lure that Big Daddy in to a bunch of hacked turrets or use a target dummy and shoot him with all of your weapons or use various plasmids to take him down or use them all. Most FPS give you the choice of shooting the enemy or dying. Also, Bioshock had a terrible story. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1246 Joined: 9 Feb 2008 | Not sure about this. I can't see a more complicated version of the FPS genre dominating the main one. And...Michael Bay of all examples? Mirror image of Cliffy's absurdly profitable unoriginal action products. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2489 Joined: 29 Nov 2007 | I'd replace the term "future" with "has nowhere else to go". There is a functional limitation on how much you can do with running around and shooting at each other. Add more players, add bigger guns, add vehicles, add bigger levels, etc. You just run out of options to add within the confines of the genre. You either have the STALKER/Far Cry 2 idea of sandbox FPS play or you figure out a way to make the gameplay we already all understand pace in a more interesting manner than run & shoot. |
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Gears of War Designer: "The Future of Shooters is RPGs"
Epic Games Design Director Cliff Bleszkinski says "the future of shooters is RPGs," suggesting that the Gears of War franchise could be in for a healthy dose of dialog and character development.
The Gears of War games seem to be doing well enough as is, garnering both critical and commercial acclaim, but Bleszinski apparently envisions even greater things for the future. Looking to the success of BioShock, the man known as CliffyB expressed great admiration for designer Ken Levine and admitted that he was initially worried the game wouldn't catch on with players. "But it pleased me to no end that the game did so well," Bleszinski said. "I had a conversation with Harvey Smith - one of the lead designers on Deus Ex - and said to him the future of shooters is RPGs. He said he completely agreed."
He was somewhat more circumspect about how the Gears of War franchise fits into that belief, however, saying, "One could wean that from the comments I made earlier about the future of shooters is RPGs and see where things are going with us." He also dismissed suggestions that criticism of the Gears of War 2 narrative would dissuade Epic from further "innovation" in the future.
"We never said we were making Shakespeare; this is a Michael Bay film, go with it," he continued. "I would much rather be the guy who makes a game that sells millions of copies that people love to make fun of - because that's what people do on the internet - than the guy who makes a critical darling that no one really knows about."
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