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Designing a "Serious" Zombie RPG

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Designing a "Serious" Zombie RPG

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Zombies are everywhere these days, but very few games take the concept as seriously as DoubleBear Productions' ZRPG, an open-ended RPG from two ex-Obsidian staffers that's a "serious examination of a national crisis or natural disaster."

Annie Carlson of DoubleBear Productions doesn't want to hate on Plants vs. Zombies. She loves the game to death, she says. But her game, the just-announced "ZRPG" as it's being called for now, is a far cry from the recent rash of undead-themed titles, PopCap's wacky lawn defense sim included. Instead of a game where, as her partner-in-crime Brian Mitsoda puts it, zombies are "just something fun to shoot," the ZRPG takes a serious, psychological approach to the idea of a zombie apocalypse, and that's something Carlson has wanted for some time.

"Seriously, though, it's a game I always wanted to play," Carlson told The Escapist. "Something that took a more gradual, psychological take on something that's overwhelming and horrifying, where you have to fight to keep your sanity and sense of agency - you can't just grab a gun and hope to wipe all the bad guys out. You haven't won, you're not winning, you're not even close to losing - you've lost."

The theme of ZRPG, as Carlson and Mitsoda describe it, is survival. Built in the engine running Age of Decadence, a Fallout-style RPG from Iron Tower Studio, ZRPG is an open-ended, single-player, turn-based, erm, zombie RPG. "The focus is on survival, the survivors," Mitsoda said. "Unlike other games that are just about blasting zombies, the difficulties in this game stem from dealing with the other personalities in the group, the threats from outside the group, and the dangers of daily existence in the absence of law and the presence of desperate humans and persistent undead. It's more about the humans than the zombies."

For Mitsoda, the relevance of the zombie setting in his game goes beyond the conceptual and into his real life experience. Having seen what disaster truly looks like living in Miami during Hurricane Andrew, the idea of social breakdown isn't just fiction for him. "There was destruction everywhere you looked...it took months to get things back to a modest definition of normal," he said. "Having lived through something like that, I felt a zombie scenario allowed me to take my own personal experience and work it into a broader examination of how humans deal with a crisis beyond their control."

No offense to Valve or PopCap, but this is a whole other level of the zombie thing than it seems like anyone has touched upon in games recently. But while deep concepts are cool and all, can we trust that the game will live up to the ideas behind it? DoubleBear is leaking out info on gameplay systems (check out this discussion of how noise works in the game), but for now at least we know that Carlson and Mitsoda have serious RPG design cred. They both worked at Obsidian, and Mitsoda, who has done work at big names like Black Isle and Troika, was a writer and designer on Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.

Judging from DoubleBear's work experience, I'm going to guess the ZRPG will be more akin to the first two Fallout games than Final Fantasy VII. And though it takes a much grittier look at its themes than its zombie game peers, on some level, there will be some fundamental things in common. "[Plants vs. Zombies] is a funny idea that lasts because there's a compelling and very fun game behind it, though, and ideally that's what I want to be at our core as well," Carlson said. "The zombie part should be icing for some. Very, very disgusting icing. "

Mmm. Zombie icing.

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Hmmm their game kind of reminds me of Urban Dead, my favorite low tech Zombie Rpg.

Turn based combat? As much as I love the idea of a serious game with innovative sound elements, I'm predicting a case of "Alone in the Dark" fever for this game.

Honestly, I think Valve has cornered the market on zombie games. I don't think they're going to be able to top Left 4 Dead.

damn. why does it have to be turn based? I was interested until I saw those words :(

Ugh, I read Turn based and was completely turned off. I can't feel pressure if its the traditional Turn Based strategy that everyone knows. If they manage to switch that aspect of it, I think it'll turn out better. As for now, I'm sadly uninterested. It sounds like a fantastic idea though.

Sounds fun to me. I'd love a zombie game where you can't kill them all. It would provide a good source of fear.

ok... I dont get why its turn based but it might be fun

This sounds like a great concept. I firmly support this and hope to hear more about it.

This sounds like a fallout 1/2 ripoff with the radiation replaced by shambling corpses.

Hmmm, well I have mixed opinions about the entire thing to be honest. I understand what they are going for, but the problem I see is that most "psychological zombie horror" works by having a group of "normal" people who react unrealistically to the situation and ofentimes refuse to learn. It should also be noted that the Hollywood definition of "Normal" often strikes me as being at least mildly retarded. Typically in such a movie there are at most one or two people who have even an iota of common sense.

The thing with an RPG based around the concept is simply that most players aren't going to play characters who are "normal people" and if they do, they are going to rapidly cease to be normal people the longer they survive and the more they learn.

It should also be noted that Zombie horror is not all that uncommon, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the US who has no experience with the genere at all, even if they don't care for it. Even dealing with niche markets like fanboys your dealing with a lot of people who have probably spent an unhealthy amount of time thinking about the hypothetical possibility of a zombie uprising. Consider that we've got numerous best-selling video games (Resident Evil, Left 4 Dead, etc...) Zombies are a stock villain in ann kinds of fantasy and science fiction, then we've got numerous board games (Last Night On Earth, etc..) and paper and pencil RPGs like "All Flesh Must Be Eaten" and "Dead Reign". Not to mention the movies themselves which remain popular enough where it seems your seeing at least one or two churned out for direct to video release every year.

The point being that barring the initial disbelief, most people aren't going to be "OMG, what is that??!?!?". It's a bloody zombie, we've been looking at bloody zombies since we were five. As teenagers we watched dozens of zombie movies... really.

I guess my point is that ZRPG sounds interesting at first, but honestly I've oftentimes felt the "FPS" or "combat RPG" take on the genere was accurate to where things would wind up before too long. Making a whole game out of the "ZOMG! There are Zombies" reaction that would last maybe 5 minutes if that seems like a problem.

It's sort of like a lot of other horror concepts in various media. Once they get past introducing the concepts and the intiial shock, a lot of them have trouble actually DOING anything with it. A good example of this would be a paper and pencil RPG called "Nightbane". A lot of GMs are good with the "Boo there is a monster invasion, and your a monster too!" but then have trouble dealing with the fact that in the end it's more of a fantasy/dark super heroes type game based around monsters beating the living crud out of each other than it is based on actual horror and suspense (other than as a trapping). The same thing applies to Zombie RPGS and such, and frankly I could see this game suffering from the same problem (if I'm describing it correctly). "We don't want to make another zombie bashing game" seems to be their motif, but honestly that is what happens when the zombie genere is explored seriously past the very beginnings.

What's more when you get down to it, even if .01% of the human population survives and is unaffected the Zombies ultimatly lose. It might take a while, but anyone with even a mild amount of creativity can come up with ways to kill the things by the tens of thousands (and we've ALL thought of stuff like this watching Zombie movies). Sure the numbers seem endless but there are only so many people on the planet. To put things into perspective if you had say 5 people you could probably "kill" "everyone" in your neighborhood fairly quickly if they were all mindless shamblers that could be relied upon to move towards you. Then you could take the show on the road to neighboring areas or other towns since there are only going to be so many people in a given area to have been zombified. Given time, humans are going to reproduce, and frankly you'd be shocked at how quick humans can be disposed of (ie Vanishing Villages in Vietnam and such, when they weren't even zombies) never mind effectively mindless zombies.

Well enoguh rambling.

Good luck with the game, I'll keep an eye on it, will probably buy it if it seems decent in the end, but honestly I'm not sure if a decent game can be developed around those concepts (as I understand them).

Sounds fun and all, but I don't think turn based would work here.

I imagine everyone putting every stat point into agility or whatever would give more movement points/cheaper movement so you could simply outrun the zombies with every turn =P

YAY!

I've been waiting for a game like this, though I like the idea in my head better but who doesn't like their own idea?

Anyhow, Turn-based? Not liking that idea too much, but maybe it'll fit and I'll have a grand time surviving in the zombie apocalypse.

I'm enthusiastic about this one. Mitsoda has a great track record with games like Vampire: Bloodlines which has some of the best writing in any game ever. The game has a great set of features, I have wanted a survival RPG with turn-based combat for ages.

On the one hand, I'm excited, because it is indeed something I'd be curious to play. On the other hand, I'm extremely jealous someone has beaten me to the punch.

I few years back, I was thinking about how I'd do a zombie RPG. I had imagined that at the beginning of the game, you'd have to organize some kind of transportation, like hot-wire a car or something, then get supplies like fuel (defend a gas station while your vehicle is guzzling up) and water (break into a convenience store), as my hypothetical game would've included a physical needs system like they included in some of the hardcore Fallout 3 mods.

Of course, that was just a pipe dream - I have no experience in making or grasp of doing any programming or game design. It was just some fun "What if" scenario. Anyway, I'm looking forward to ZRPG.

This has just become the game i'm looking forward to the most. I don't care how they long they decide to take as long as they do my hype justice.

"[A] Fallout-style RPG from Iron Tower Studio, ZRPG is an open-ended, single-player, turn-based, erm, zombie RPG"

Sold!

The hud and weapon stats already look like the original Fallout. So when is this done?

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sounds good, ill prolly play it.

So it's going to be like the walking dead comics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead

hmmm, sounds pretty interesting, if you ask me... psychological horrors are always more scary than just blood and gore, afterall... (case in point? I'm a total coward yet I don't find SAW scary)

Bullshit!

Nothing based around zombies can be taken seriously!

At least not nowadays. :D

This sounds like what "I Am Legend" attempted to do in the movie medium. The closest thing that games has to really analyzing the psychological factors behind a zombie invasion is L4D, which relies heavily on teamwork for survival. Other than that, I haven't played any games that really analyzed the psychological factors behind a zombie apocalypse.

I thought this sounded seriously worth a look.
Then I read the words 'Turn based combat'... *sigh*

Oh well...

i'm now expecting a game where you meet up with the wiseass black guy, the dumb blonde girl, the wise old man, and the resourceful guy

psychological? nah, they'll make it ridiculous because they'll realise the players won't be shocked by yet another zombie attack

After reading World War Z, I can imagine how epic an RPG of this type would be, beyond the obvious 'survival' aspects.

Milkman Dan:
After reading World War Z, I can imagine how epic an RPG of this type would be, beyond the obvious 'survival' aspects.

Think they might do something like the battle of Yonkers?

This game intrigues me. Less for the zombie, more for the survival, and mostly because it's a true RPG not a MMORPG.

I also agree that this is very interesting indeed, except the turn basedness.
I much rather have a FPRPG (Like oblivion, much more immersive in my opinion), but with scarce ammo, and such, but not like it'll change their ideas.
It still sounds like a good game to try.
Zombie Icing... In Stores Now!

Sounds interesting. What platform(s) will it be for? PC only?

And I don't mind turn-based combat. I'm actually rather surprised by all the people here turned off by turn-based gaming.

When we see a console release of Sonny 1&2 that's what I want to know.

Why did you have to ruin it with the words "turn based"?

Nothing wrong with turn based games. The first 2 fallouts were turned based and so was the X com series.

This game looks promising. Im not the biggest fan of turn based encounters but I don't hate them.
Im definitely going to check this out.

I still like the one Max and Scobie cooked up in an older thread better.

what abbout sonny?

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your a zombie and its turn based!

http://www.kongregate.com/games/ArmorGames/sonny

Jeez, why does everyone hate turn-based combat so much?

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