WoW: Cataclysm Part 3: Dungeons With Dragons

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WoW: Cataclysm Part 3: Dungeons With Dragons

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The world of Warcraft isn't the only thing that will get some changes in Cataclysm: There will be new class/race combinations, entirely new systems of advancement - and a ton of new raids, dungeons, and PvP areas.

With the explosive announcement of WoW: Cataclysm earlier today at BlizzCon, there was a ton of new information coming down the pipe at the Preview Panel immediately following. But beyond the new races and the complete reshaping of Azeroth, we got to take a look at the rest of the stuff, too.

A Classy Expansion, But Not a Talented One: Ever wonder why Druids could only be Tauren or Night Elves? Or why only Blood Elves and Draenei could be Horde Paladins or Alliance Shamans, respectively? Cataclysm will add a bunch of new Class/Race combinations to the game - Troll Druids, Tauren Paladins, Dwarf Shamans, Human and Undead Hunters, and Gnome Priests (to name a few). Variety is the spice of life, after all. (Or, "Holy Cow!")

On the other hand, there won't be any new levels of Talent trees - there will be five more talent points with the five more levels, and remade and refined talents, but the 51-pointers will still be as deep as the trees go. On the other hand, Blizzard will be adding the "Mastery System" - while they intended for talents to be cool, fun options, they found that players didn't take talents that didn't give direct benefits: "More healing, more criticals, more damage."

So instead, they will be taking some of those out of the talents, and putting them in the talent trees themselves - as the designers phrased it, it sounded like a Mage who put points in Fire - for example - would earn a boost to damage with every point he spent, no matter which talent it was in.

Excavating the Path of the Titans - With only five levels, the problem that the designers faced was, how could players customize their characters in lieu of new talent points? The new Secondary Skill, Archaeology (yes, a Secondary Skill - anyone can have it, like Fishing, Cooking, and First Aid) will enable players to explore the Titan ruins across Azeroth, to research and discover Artifacts that they can bring to different groups in the world to advance down the Path of the Titans. These Paths are not class-specific: A Rogue may choose any of the Paths, and a Priest may choose the same one that he does. No specifics were named, though.

Advancing as a Guild: Cataclysm will introduce the Guild Advancement System, where everything that players like to do - daily quests, raids, Battlegrounds - will contribute to the advancement of their guilds, through twenty "Guild Levels." There will be perks, and even a Guild Talent Tree to earn things like Cheaper Repairs, or a Mass Resurrection ability to recover after a horrible wipe in a raid.

Raiders of the Lost Dungeon: Even if this expansion takes place back in Azeroth, there will still be plenty of new dungeons and raids for PvE-focused players. In Uldum, there will be two level-up dungeons, the Lost City of Tol'vir (featuring those stone-cat-people), and the Titan labyrinth of the Halls of Origination.

Fans of Classic WoW will either be thrilled or dismayed to learn that Blackrock Mountain will be getting yet another instance - the Blackrock Caverns. Though the designers knew that the Blackrock dungeons and raids were fan-favorites, they "didn't want to just level them up with new gear." The Blackrock Caverns are a new dungeon full of new gear and new creatures - as one of Deathwing's primary bases of operations outside of Grim Batol.

Though the Elemental Plane of Earth, Deepholm, is one of the big new leveling zones for Cataclysm, the other three planes will all be dungeons and raids. Skywall (the Plane of Air), and the Abyssal Maw (the Plane of Water) will have both a level-up dungeon and a main raid, but the Firelands (the Plane of... well, guess) will feature players counterattacking after the siege in Hyjal. Player characters will storm Sulfuron Keep, where a bigger, stronger, and pissed-off Ragnaros the Firelord will be awaiting them to get revenge for his defeat 25 levels ago.

Grim Batol will have a level-up dungeon and a raid, presumably leading up to the final showdown against the corrupted Aspect of Earth, Deathwing himself.

There will also be fan-favorite dungeons returning - specifically, level 85 Heroic versions of Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep. They use the same art and layouts, but with new fights, new creatures, and new abilities. Quoteth Chilton, it will be "Van Cleefier than ever before."

The War Returns to Warcraft: Despite some shiny new PvE options, there is new PvP content in Cataclysm as well. Blizzard's goal for the expansion is to have three new battlegrounds, but they only mentioned one, the Battle for Gilneas (Gilneas being the Worgen homeland). It will feature combat in the streets of the city of Gilneas, with players taking control of districts to claim victory. Rated Battlegrounds will be making a debut, allowing players access to the gear and ranks from Arenas without being confined to the deathmatch system.

After the incredibly popular Wintergrasp battlefield in Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard is continuing that theme with Tol Barad, an island off the coast of the Eastern Kingdoms with a prison that both the Horde and Alliance want to control. It melds the idea of Wintergrasp with Burning Crusade's Isle of Quel'Danas - when it's not in conflict, it's a daily hub - the main daily hub for the expansion. When the battle rolls around, though, both factions will fight for control, and victory will give access to the Tol Barad prison as well as bonus, "extra-profitable" dailies.

There's a ton of new information and content coming in this literally earthshattering expansion - and even in three parts, we couldn't cover it all. I'll be taking a look at the Worgen and Goblin starting areas here on the BlizzCon show floor (and that's not even getting into Diablo III and StarCraft II...)

Stay tuned for more from BlizzCon 2009!

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Seems like fun, and I would like to try out the undead hunter class now =3

Sure seems promising, but I'm kinda thinking they're overdoing it with this expansion. We'll have to see how it turns out.

Troll Druids, Tauren Paladins, Dwarf Shamans, Human and Undead Hunters, and Gnome Priests (to name a few).

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The class combination is what makes me really go lorelol. I thought Metzen went to Fantasy writing school.

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

I could go on and on, but I don't have the patience. This is an example of how this type of fantasy setting shouldn't be an ever-expanding MMORPG, the gameplay overcomes the rules set to the make belief world and it becomes Lorelol. But most of the world rules had already been broken from the first minute the game went online so...

oliveira8:
The class combination is what makes me really go lorelol. I thought Metzen went to Fantasy writing school.

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

I could go on and on, but I don't have the patience. This is an example of how this type of fantasy setting shouldn't be an ever-expanding MMORPG, the gameplay overcomes the rules set to the make belief world and it becomes Lorelol.

Lorelol is what happens when Blizzard puts their customers wants before their games lore.

Damn Blizzard, giving the public what it wants!

SomeBritishDude:

oliveira8:
The class combination is what makes me really go lorelol. I thought Metzen went to Fantasy writing school.

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

I could go on and on, but I don't have the patience. This is an example of how this type of fantasy setting shouldn't be an ever-expanding MMORPG, the gameplay overcomes the rules set to the make belief world and it becomes Lorelol.

Lorelol is what happens when Blizzard puts their customers wants before their games lore.

Damn Blizzard, giving the public what it wants!

I don't think that people really wanted gnome priests(apart from people that wanted Gnome guilds only). To be honest, some races not having some classes is what made the races "unique" and true to themselfs.

They just had to add something so the expansion didn't look poor. There wasn't any cool Hero class this time so they went with classes for everyone.

Getting arena rewards from battlegrounds, awesome.
Deadmines lvl 85 heroic, lol and awesome.
Will BRD stealhrunning return? I sure had some fun 2-manning that with rogue + restodruid back at lvl 60.

HC DM and SFK will rock, now we just need Level 85 elite Hogger. All seriousness aside though, this maybe the thing that draws me back to WoW.

oliveira8:

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

keep in mind the following things happened in those 6 years:
1. the night elves lost their immortality.
2. the burning legion cam back anyway and got its ass kicked.
3. the aspect of magic went batshit crazy with the stuff and got his ass kicked too.

all in all, it's not nearly as farfetched as arthas beating illidan, the caverns of time, or the draenei origin story. hell, if anything, Metzen ruined the lore before WoW even existed.

on a related note, this game damn well better have blood elf druids.

oliveira8:
The class combination is what makes me really go lorelol. I thought Metzen went to Fantasy writing school.

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

I could go on and on, but I don't have the patience. This is an example of how this type of fantasy setting shouldn't be an ever-expanding MMORPG, the gameplay overcomes the rules set to the make belief world and it becomes Lorelol. But most of the world rules had already been broken from the first minute the game went online so...

I don't really agree. The NElf Mage is the only one that seems really out of lore there, and even that could be "Well, all this crap is going down in our world, maybe it's time to move past our old hatreds and embrace these powers that will be necessary to save the world." And maybe they'll still be pariahs in Night Elf society.

It's much easier to swallow than the BC retcons.

cobra_ky:

oliveira8:

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

keep in mind the following things happened in those 6 years:
1. the night elves lost their immortality.
2. the burning legion cam back anyway and got its ass kicked.
3. the aspect of magic went batshit crazy with the stuff and got his ass kicked too.

all in all, it's not nearly as farfetched as arthas beating illidan, the caverns of time, or the draenei origin story. hell, if anything, Metzen ruined the lore before WoW even existed.

on a related note, this game damn well better have blood elf druids.

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

1. True. But them losing immortality was a nod that the world belonged to the mortal kinds and that the Night Elves time had passed. Wait...where did I see this? Oh yes...Lord of the Rings.

2. The Burning Legion came because people still used Magic. The whole thing with the Guardians of Tirisfal(Ironicly it was made to keep the demons out) is what brought doom back to Azeroth.

3. One of the causes of why the aspect of magic went crazy, was because everyone was using magic! So people made the mean old dragon batshit insane cause they were using magic...the same magic that the NE refused yonks ago! Makes no bloody sense!(And the Old God..right? I don't know...)

cobra_ky:

oliveira8:

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

keep in mind the following things happened in those 6 years:
1. the night elves lost their immortality.
2. the burning legion cam back anyway and got its ass kicked.
3. the aspect of magic went batshit crazy with the stuff and got his ass kicked too.

all in all, it's not nearly as farfetched as arthas beating illidan, the caverns of time, or the draenei origin story. hell, if anything, Metzen ruined the lore before WoW even existed.

on a related note, this game damn well better have blood elf druids.

BElves get Warriors back. Worgen and Trolls are the new Druids.

BTW, Worgen starting zone? *so* awesome.

I think this expansion sounds great! I can't wait to try out the new quests in Azeroth. I've been reluctant to roll a new toon 'cause vanilla wow is just so tired once you've played through BC and Wrath. I'm curious to see what the path of the titans does though. Sounds like it'll be a blast!

oliveira8:

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Either way, there were night elves who were dicky enough to use magic in the first place, and renegades like Maiev prove that they can still be headstrong, arrogant and careless. Its entirely possible that mainstream 'conservative' (for want of a better word) Night Elves will still shun mage magic, but the angry quick tempered ones will take it up as soon as they see its destructive power.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Being in the Emerald Dream isn't really the same as being asleep.

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Either way, there were night elves who were dicky enough to use magic in the first place, and renegades like Maiev prove that they can still be headstrong, arrogant and careless. Its entirely possible that mainstream 'conservative' (for want of a better word) Night Elves will still shun mage magic, but the angry quick tempered ones will take it up as soon as they see its destructive power.

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

Amnestic:

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Being in the Emerald Dream isn't really the same as being asleep.

oliveira8:
[quote="Armitage Shanks" post="7.132540.2960781"][quote="oliveira8" post="7.132540.2960689"]

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

No, fair points both, so I suppose not.

I guess it just comes down to (some, not all) Nelves deciding things are bad enough already and they may as well risk it and use the magic to their advantage, despite what their peers say. Thats how I see it working lore wise.

oliveira8:

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Either way, there were night elves who were dicky enough to use magic in the first place, and renegades like Maiev prove that they can still be headstrong, arrogant and careless. Its entirely possible that mainstream 'conservative' (for want of a better word) Night Elves will still shun mage magic, but the angry quick tempered ones will take it up as soon as they see its destructive power.

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

Again, I ask. In the interest of moving the world forward and not just remaining static, what is wrong with a section of the Night Elves deciding that this is a world where they cannot be afraid of these energies, but need them to fight the powers that have shattered Azeroth? With deciding that clinging to these old hatreds and taboos is just foolish?

Armitage Shanks:

Amnestic:

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Being in the Emerald Dream isn't really the same as being asleep.

oliveira8:
[quote="Armitage Shanks" post="7.132540.2960781"][quote="oliveira8" post="7.132540.2960689"]

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

No, fair points both, so I suppose not.

I guess it just comes down to (some, not all) Nelves deciding things are bad enough already and they may as well risk it and use the magic to their advantage, despite what their peers say. Thats how I see it working lore wise.

It still is hard to swallow. In WC3 they didn't even care for the humans and orcs and would rather kill them and the Undead/Legion single handed before mingling with the mortals. Only a higher power made them cooperate.

Even if time passed it's still hard to swallow such change. If 100 passed it would have made more sense. There's also that think of orcs cutting through their woods...Yeah it's really hard to swallow all the crap Metzen is trying to makes us belief in the expansions that both sides need to help eachother, when half of the time they backstabbing each other.

CantFaketheFunk:

oliveira8:

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Either way, there were night elves who were dicky enough to use magic in the first place, and renegades like Maiev prove that they can still be headstrong, arrogant and careless. Its entirely possible that mainstream 'conservative' (for want of a better word) Night Elves will still shun mage magic, but the angry quick tempered ones will take it up as soon as they see its destructive power.

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

Again, I ask. In the interest of moving the world forward and not just remaining static, what is wrong with a section of the Night Elves deciding that this is a world where they cannot be afraid of these energies, but need them to fight the powers that have shattered Azeroth? With deciding that clinging to these old hatreds and taboos is just foolish?

Again? I need to explain this again?

10,000 years of seclusion believing that the evil comes from arcane magic, then all that time passed, they see that evil has returned because of the same magic and then one of the aspects of the world went bat-shit insane cause people have been using the same magic.

Shouldn't the best way to solve problems stop using that kind of magic? But no. They decide to go along, even when it only brings troubles. It's illogical. Even in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory would be out of touch with reality.

This reminds of the conflits in Tolkiens world. Where progression was seen as evil. Melkor/Sauron/Saruman every single one of them renounced the nature and tried to pursue a technological way. In the eyes of the elves, pursuing the way of the iron and the machine was evil.(hence why the dislike dwarves.)(And theres also that thing that Morgoth fused his evilness in the earth itself but im streamlining here...)
Industry was seen as a evil in Arda the same way as Magic is seen evil in Azeroth.

oliveira8:

It still is hard to swallow. In WC3 they didn't even care for the humans and orcs and would rather kill them and the Undead/Legion single handed before mingling with the mortals. Only a higher power made them cooperate.

Even if time passed it's still hard to swallow such change. If 100 passed it would have made more sense. There's also that think of orcs cutting through their woods...Yeah it's really hard to swallow all the crap Metzen is trying to makes us belief in the expansions that both sides need to help eachother, when half of the time they backstabbing each other.

In WC3 the then High Elves were a nation of incredibly powerful isolationists who didn't give a damn about the power of the holy light. That had already changed by the time Frozen Throne came round.

Hell, in WCI, Orcs were bloodthirsty always chaotic evil savages under the curse of bloodlust and stereotypical beserker type ruler in Blackhand. But by number II, in lore terms less than a year later, you had Doomhammer rising up and destroying the Shadow Council, utilizing ogres, goblins and trolls to expand the Orc armies, in general making the Orcish invasion less hulk smash and more strategic.

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

It still is hard to swallow. In WC3 they didn't even care for the humans and orcs and would rather kill them and the Undead/Legion single handed before mingling with the mortals. Only a higher power made them cooperate.

Even if time passed it's still hard to swallow such change. If 100 passed it would have made more sense. There's also that think of orcs cutting through their woods...Yeah it's really hard to swallow all the crap Metzen is trying to makes us belief in the expansions that both sides need to help eachother, when half of the time they backstabbing each other.

In WC3 the then High Elves were a nation of incredibly powerful isolationists who didn't give a damn about the power of the holy light. That had already changed by the time Frozen Throne came round.

Hell, in WCI, Orcs were bloodthirsty always chaotic evil savages under the curse of bloodlust and stereotypical beserker type ruler in Blackhand. But by number II, in lore terms less than a year later, you had Doomhammer rising up and destroying the Shadow Council, utilizing ogres, goblins and trolls to expand the Orc armies, in general making the Orcish invasion less hulk smash and more strategic.

Thats kinda different.(The WC1 example) The horde was taken by a different general, who had other ideas and plans.

The High Elves cared for the holy light. They even had this big ass wheel and everything. xP

And they were pretty friendly with the humans of Lordareon. So much they came to help them during the scourge and everything and teach them the arcane arts.

oliveira8:

Thats kinda different.(The WC1 example) The horde was taken by a different general, who had other ideas and plans.

The High Elves cared for the holy light. They even had this big ass wheel and everything. xP

And they were pretty friendly with the humans of Lordareon. So much they came to help them during the scourge and everything and teach them the arcane arts.

But it shows the Orcs capable of change, right? Where the hell did those Raiders, the main offensive unit of the Orcs for years go? What happened to the sorcerous magic of the Necrolytes? Why would they abandon such powerful tools for Ogre Magi? All in a matter of months.

I don't think the Sunwell was the same as Holy Light, it was more magical and arcane. And human requests for elvish support was really putting a strain on the relationship. They couldn't cut ties off entirely because of their oath with Arathor, and links to Dalaran, but it was more of a half hearted obligation thing. The Elves that fought on the human side in the Third War and tried to cleanse the land of scourge taint were more like volunteers, not an official commitment from Quel'Thalas.

EDIT:

Wowwiki-and I believe this is from the WC3 Game Manual:
After the Second War ended, Anasterian withdrew his support from the Alliance. The official stance was that the humans' poor leadership resulted in the burning of Eversong Woods

So much they came to help them during the scourge

Not quite. Any High Elves found during the events of the Scourge Plague in Lordaeron were independents that had come because they'd heard of the trouble. The High Elf governing body didn't send any troops or assistance to Lordaeron as the plague ravaged their lands.

oliveira8:

CantFaketheFunk:

oliveira8:

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

Still it's not 6 years that will force 10,000 years out of your head.

Weren't at least half of the Night Elf population asleep for that 10,000 years? For some of them maybe its a pretty easy bond to break.

Either way, there were night elves who were dicky enough to use magic in the first place, and renegades like Maiev prove that they can still be headstrong, arrogant and careless. Its entirely possible that mainstream 'conservative' (for want of a better word) Night Elves will still shun mage magic, but the angry quick tempered ones will take it up as soon as they see its destructive power.

The sleeping ones is even worst cause those would remenber everything that happened more fresh. Either way they were in the emerald dream and they could "feel" the earth. So no.

Again, I ask. In the interest of moving the world forward and not just remaining static, what is wrong with a section of the Night Elves deciding that this is a world where they cannot be afraid of these energies, but need them to fight the powers that have shattered Azeroth? With deciding that clinging to these old hatreds and taboos is just foolish?

Again? I need to explain this again?

10,000 years of seclusion believing that the evil comes from arcane magic, then all that time passed, they see that evil has returned because of the same magic and then one of the aspects of the world went bat-shit insane cause people have been using the same magic.

Shouldn't the best way to solve problems stop using that kind of magic? But no. They decide to go along, even when it only brings troubles. It's illogical. Even in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory would be out of touch with reality.

This reminds of the conflits in Tolkiens world. Where progression was seen as evil. Melkor/Sauron/Saruman every single one of them renounced the nature and tried to pursue a technological way. In the eyes of the elves, pursuing the way of the iron and the machine was evil.(hence why the dislike dwarves.)(And theres also that thing that Morgoth fused his evilness in the earth itself but im streamlining here...)
Industry was seen as a evil in Arda the same way as Magic is seen evil in Azeroth.

Malygos' descent into madness stems from Deathwing nearly killing his entire brood of dragonkin. The use of arcane magic throughout Azeroth was not the cause of Malygos' madness.

SuperFriendBFG:

Malygos' descent into madness stems from Deathwing nearly killing his entire brood of dragonkin. The use of arcane magic throughout Azeroth was not the cause of Malygos' madness.

Indeed. Malygos' war on magic, is a result of him becoming more lucid and recovering from the madness at the loss of his brood. He saw what had happened to the world and deemed magic use too rampant and that anyone using magic would either have to side with him or die.

He was, in fact, quite sane when the Nexus War ended and was doing his job. He was trying to protect the world from Magic the only way he saw possible.

In my honest opinion, I do not really care for the Night Elves anymore. The 'jiggle' made me lose the respect I had. The thing that really bugs me is Tauren Paladins. How in the world are they going to crowbar this into lore NE mages kinda makes since, well, a lot of things can change in six years. As it has been said many times above, they stopped using the arcane so they don't attract the Legion. That obviously didn't pan out so, hey, why not? But Tauren Paladins? I really can't see this- ever. What's next, Tauren Rouges?

Also why Elves (in Lord of the Rings) hate technology is because of the Tolkien's personal stance. He fought in World War One, he saw what technology did to people: artillery, machine guns, tanks, just to name a few, destroyed many many lives for...a few hundred yards of land at best not, to mention the marring of the land really bugged him, seeing as he was a man deeply in love with nature. So, to tell the truth, it's not really surprising he would place things like Elves and Hobbits in his universe to reflect his views and ideals.

Personally I think it's good that the game world is changing:

From a lore perspective it keeps things fresh and gives the developers more opportunity to throw interesting plot lines that we haven't seen before.

Whereas from a game play point of view the players are getting a wider variety in character choices, which I think is something a lot of players want to see (mind you, I recognize there is concern for homogenization)

I'm sure we will see plenty of lore reasoning for the class changes with the expansion, for example, there are already hints for the Tauren Paladin changes:
http://www.wow.com/2009/06/28/patch-3-2-ptr-tauren-druid-conversation-may-reveal-lore-and-exp/

lightbound:
Personally I think it's good that the game world is changing:

From a lore perspective it keeps things fresh and gives the developers more opportunity to throw interesting plot lines that we haven't seen before.

Whereas from a game play point of view the players are getting a wider variety in character choices, which I think is something a lot of players want to see (mind you, I recognize there is concern for homogenization)

I'm sure we will see plenty of lore reasoning for the class changes with the expansion, for example, there are already hints for the Tauren Paladin changes:
http://www.wow.com/2009/06/28/patch-3-2-ptr-tauren-druid-conversation-may-reveal-lore-and-exp/

Very interesting...

I can't wait to try out the Worgen. Or everything else, for that matter.

I always found the concept of "Blizzcon" funny. It's not like there's a great deal of depth to Blizzard. They should really just rename it to "WoWWank 2009"

Dwarf shammy tauren pally GOBLINS AS A PLAYABLE RACE! So blizzard has just accepted there gonna butcher the lore beyond recognition?

Thank god for Aion

oliveira8:
The class combination is what makes me really go lorelol. I thought Metzen went to Fantasy writing school.

While most of the Warcraft lore comes from the lost pages of Tolkien's notes, Metzen seems to be focused on keeping bending the rules of his own world. Night Elves now can be mages, even tho they rejected that sort of magic 10,000 years ago cause it attracted The Burning Legion to Azeroth! So even tho they kept that way for 10,000 years in a time span of 6 years they decide, "Fuck it, if they doing why don't we do it?"

I could go on and on, but I don't have the patience. This is an example of how this type of fantasy setting shouldn't be an ever-expanding MMORPG, the gameplay overcomes the rules set to the make belief world and it becomes Lorelol. But most of the world rules had already been broken from the first minute the game went online so...

Actually, alot of the class changes have been explained.

Check out WoW forums for more info.

sunpop:
Dwarf shammy tauren pally GOBLINS AS A PLAYABLE RACE! So blizzard has just accepted there gonna butcher the lore beyond recognition?

Thank god for Aion

Dwarf Shaman - Wildhammer clan. Makes sense.

Tauren Paladin - foreshadowed in 3.2. Makes sense.

Goblins as a playable race - uh... what's wrong with this again? O_o

The Draenei retcon was butchering the lore. This is advancing the story.

Armitage Shanks:

oliveira8:

Thats kinda different.(The WC1 example) The horde was taken by a different general, who had other ideas and plans.

The High Elves cared for the holy light. They even had this big ass wheel and everything. xP

And they were pretty friendly with the humans of Lordareon. So much they came to help them during the scourge and everything and teach them the arcane arts.

But it shows the Orcs capable of change, right? Where the hell did those Raiders, the main offensive unit of the Orcs for years go? What happened to the sorcerous magic of the Necrolytes? Why would they abandon such powerful tools for Ogre Magi? All in a matter of months.

I don't think the Sunwell was the same as Holy Light, it was more magical and arcane. And human requests for elvish support was really putting a strain on the relationship. They couldn't cut ties off entirely because of their oath with Arathor, and links to Dalaran, but it was more of a half hearted obligation thing. The Elves that fought on the human side in the Third War and tried to cleanse the land of scourge taint were more like volunteers, not an official commitment from Quel'Thalas.

EDIT:

Wowwiki-and I believe this is from the WC3 Game Manual:
After the Second War ended, Anasterian withdrew his support from the Alliance. The official stance was that the humans' poor leadership resulted in the burning of Eversong Woods

But Doomhammer still used Deathknights, Warlocks, Ogre Magi and other dudes.(At least I think he did.) The trolls and goblins were the help he needed to take Lordareon as they were native to the land and willing to join them. They did not change in months, they didn't change at all. The new horde leader decided it was better to get the natives and accept the help from the Ogres from Outland to overcome the humans. The blood haze was still there, but the situation was different. In the first war the humans didn't really expect the Orcs, on the second war they had to get more creative. It was still the same Orcs from the first war but using more complex tactis then Blitzkrieg 101.

And the Sunwell was a sort of magical convergence point, where the High Elves took their powers including what the humans called Holy Light. Blizzard introducing the Naaru(or whatever) fucked up all rules set for the holy light. That it isn't just magic it's something that comes from a higher being, making the whole Sunwell deal in WC3 look stupid. The Sunwell(And the Well of Eternity) was a place for raw magic where the High Elves bended it to what they want it.

There was plenty of High Elves that came to the aid of the humans durin g the plague on their own. Plenty of them and emmissairs from Quel'Thalas. They did not send a full force but they sent wizards and priests. They even say that in game.

Philosopher of Chaos:
In my honest opinion, I do not really care for the Night Elves anymore. The 'jiggle' made me lose the respect I had. The thing that really bugs me is Tauren Paladins. How in the world are they going to crowbar this into lore NE mages kinda makes since, well, a lot of things can change in six years. As it has been said many times above, they stopped using the arcane so they don't attract the Legion. That obviously didn't pan out so, hey, why not? But Tauren Paladins? I really can't see this- ever. What's next, Tauren Rouges?

Also why Elves (in Lord of the Rings) hate technology is because of the Tolkien's personal stance. He fought in World War One, he saw what technology did to people: artillery, machine guns, tanks, just to name a few, destroyed many many lives for...a few hundred yards of land at best not, to mention the marring of the land really bugged him, seeing as he was a man deeply in love with nature. So, to tell the truth, it's not really surprising he would place things like Elves and Hobbits in his universe to reflect his views and ideals.

Well of course it didn't pan out cause people kept using magic! But it's still illogical for a race like those elves change so dramaticly like that. It feels and sounds shoehorned, the same with Tauren Paladins, undead hunters and Dwarf Shamans.

All the classes should be remade to fit the races culture. But Blizzard won't do that. Too much work.

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