Rutawitz:

Joeshie:

Rutawitz:
so the online for consoles is 100% less fun? care to explain? or are you still too busy trying to join a PC match with your friend?

I'm glad you asked.

* Community built custom maps

* Community built custom gametypes (surf maps anyone?)

* Making sure that when you join a server you get a good ping

* Being able to ban out 13 year old racist bastard children from your server

* Being able for the players to change the map with a simple vote whenever they want

* Being able to find and join a community of really fun people on a specific server (this one is very important, it's basically the reason I've kept coming back to TF2 for the past two years)

* Being able to easily join that aforementioned community with two clicks of your mouse

* Being able to communicate with something other than headset

* Ability to choose which control method you want: you can use keyboard/mouse or a controller

* Generally a much more mature community than the consoles

* Ability to choose how many players you want in a server

* Ability to choose what kinds of maps you play in a server

I'm sure there are a few that I've missed, but I think that would be sufficient to prove my point.

true. mods are pretty sweet. but im pretty sure no one is mature on console or pc. but on console, all you have to do is press a button to join a game.

It may only take 1 for console, but it only takes 2 on Pc to play in a game you actually WANT to play in

rvx71:

Rutawitz:

Joeshie:

Rutawitz:
so the online for consoles is 100% less fun? care to explain? or are you still too busy trying to join a PC match with your friend?

I'm glad you asked.

* Community built custom maps

* Community built custom gametypes (surf maps anyone?)

* Making sure that when you join a server you get a good ping

* Being able to ban out 13 year old racist bastard children from your server

* Being able for the players to change the map with a simple vote whenever they want

* Being able to find and join a community of really fun people on a specific server (this one is very important, it's basically the reason I've kept coming back to TF2 for the past two years)

* Being able to easily join that aforementioned community with two clicks of your mouse

* Being able to communicate with something other than headset

* Ability to choose which control method you want: you can use keyboard/mouse or a controller

* Generally a much more mature community than the consoles

* Ability to choose how many players you want in a server

* Ability to choose what kinds of maps you play in a server

I'm sure there are a few that I've missed, but I think that would be sufficient to prove my point.

true. mods are pretty sweet. but im pretty sure no one is mature on console or pc. but on console, all you have to do is press a button to join a game.

It may only take 1 for console, but it only takes 2 on Pc to play in a game you actually WANT to play in

Or 0, because they are never ever any games I want to play in on PC. BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY DECIDED THEY WEREN'T COOL ENOUGH.

When can we start rioting?

Rutawitz:
true. mods are pretty sweet. but im pretty sure no one is mature on console or pc. but on console, all you have to do is press a button to join a game.

Trust me, having played both Halo3 and CoD4 online on LIVE, I can assure you that you don't run into annoying twats on PC's nearly as often as consoles.

Except surf servers in TF2. For some reason, those are full of annoying 12 year old brats who can't learn to shut the hell up. I can't ever figure why they congregate there.

Joeshie:
Trust me, having played both Halo3 and CoD4 online on LIVE, I can assure you that you don't run into annoying twats on PC's nearly as often as consoles.

Except surf servers in TF2. For some reason, those are full of annoying 12 year old brats who can't learn to shut the hell up. I can't ever figure why they congregate there.

As a point of principle, I notice much more of the brats on the mainstream run and gun games rather than ones that require strategy.

But, that's not what this debate is about. So far as Infinity Ward's decision goes, I'm annoyed with this decision as it removes a lot of the replay value for the game and with it a lot of the desire to purchase it. Despite that, I'm more worried about other developers using this as a precedent and starting to implement this design in more games. I don't need PC games to arbitrarily cost $10 more and have less features than they've had in the past decade.

Ah yes this news has been everywhere, I've been told that some people are actually stopping their pre-orders because of it.
I know taking out dedicated servers is quite a chunk off MW2 but is it that major to cancel your pre-order?
seriously? :\

It's enough motivation for me to put off purchasing the game for quite some time, if I end up getting it at all now. The problem with removing the servers is that it severely takes away from the replay value and the same goes for the removal of modding. Activision is arbitrarily raising the price of a PC game by 20%, while removing features that are generally considered staples of the PC community.

Like I said in my previous post though, I'm vastly more concerned that this is going to become a standard in PC gaming as it would be a serious detriment to the community.

But funk, decicated servers are FAR better than matchmaking. It is not better tech. Also, if you can't figure out a server browser, your a moron.

SadisticDarkling:
Ah yes this news has been everywhere, I've been told that some people are actually stopping their pre-orders because of it.
I know taking out dedicated servers is quite a chunk off MW2 but is it that major to cancel your pre-order?
seriously? :\

Its was number 2 on amazons pre-order list (by ammount) before the news, bow its something like 86th.

cyber_andyy:

SadisticDarkling:
*snip*

Its was number 2 on amazons pre-order list (by ammount) before the news, bow its something like 86th.

wow, thats pretty amazing :I

Booze Zombie:

The Bandit:
Compared to hitting "find a match," pretty freaking hard. What the hell is ping?

A high "ping" means the server has a worse connection with you, so it helps if you set your filter options to find games with a "ping" under 100.

For instance, if you have a ping of 1 to 5, you're seeing everything as it's happening, most likely not even a millisecond of delay between you and the server.

Methinks that having a ping of 100 means that there is one millisecond of delay. Perhaps one tenth.

Regardless, my post is going to be buried under hundreds of others, so without further ado:

This is what removing dedicated servers denies us:

1. Easy Matchmaking- That's right. I play on all three online platforms (360,ps3,steam), and I can safely say that steam is the easiest tool to use. I spent more time fumbling through the sequential dashboard interfaces and typing out needless invite messages on the other two than I did on steam. Someone may argue that I say this entirely out of personal preference, and they would be partially correct, but as others have said, it really is not difficult.
I mean come on. I was picking servers on BF2 at 7 years old.

2. Mods- Self Explanatory, really. This is going to be a huge kick in the nuts to PC gamers. It effectively removes one justification for getting a PC in the first place- User Created DLC.

3. Community- Funk argues that it could be said that IW is trying to make a wider community. This won't happen- people are not that nice. What will happen is that these web-based communities (For example the Escapist's PC section. Of which I am the head. Grr.) will stay knit together, the only difference removing dedication will make is hindering their ability to play together the way they want.

4. Fun- I'm guessing a lot of people will be taken aback a bit by the last one, but take a look at this. Doesn't that look like fun? All of that is only possible because servers can be dedicated. Remove that option, and you remove the spice that makes the game fun. Variation is gone and it becomes a monotonous grind along with all the others.

I signed. You should, too.

Edit:

JeanLuc761:
It's enough motivation for me to put off purchasing the game for quite some time, if I end up getting it at all now. The problem with removing the servers is that it severely takes away from the replay value and the same goes for the removal of modding. Activision is arbitrarily raising the price of a PC game by 20%, while removing features that are generally considered staples of the PC community.

Like I said in my previous post though, I'm vastly more concerned that this is going to become a standard in PC gaming as it would be a serious detriment to the community.

Agree completely. This has me severely annoyed. Anyone who knows me can tell you that it's hard to get me really angry, so this is a big deal.

rvx71:

Rutawitz:

Joeshie:

Rutawitz:
so the online for consoles is 100% less fun? care to explain? or are you still too busy trying to join a PC match with your friend?

I'm glad you asked.

*snip*

all you have to do is press a button to join a game.

It may only take 1 for console, but it only takes 2 on Pc to play in a game you actually WANT to play in

Not even entirely true. I just joined a game of tf2 with a friend from the desktop (So that's two clicks added to start up steam. On to right click his name. One to click join game.). It took exactly four clicks. RVX is right. If you are already in game, it takes two clicks.

Now, on my Xbox, I started in game. To join my friend's game I had to bring up the dash (1), scroll to friends (3), scroll down to him (Varies, but for me it was 1, so (4)), press A (5), highlight "Join Game" (6), and press "A" (7).

So, for me, it's even more finger-straining to matchmake on LIVE than it is on Steam.

Danny Ocean:
Snipety snip

Qft Mr. Ocean, Qft.

ph3onix:

Danny Ocean:
Snipety snip

Qft Mr. Ocean, Qft.

my thoughts exactly
in my experience

DEDICATED SERVERS:
scroll through a list PICK WHAT I WANT, join server, play
vs.
MATCHMAKING:
various menus, wait for computer to find other players --about 50% of the time this step needs to be repeated--, wait for it to show what map we can play, vote on map -with the possibility of another bad map-, wait for map to load, play...assuming it isn't a huge lag fest and the player that is acting as the host doesnt leave

Hey, wouldn't it be FUCKING hilarious if this actually worked really well and everyone loved it and it taught people to wait for shit to come out before they get all butt hurt about it.

philzibit:
Hey, wouldn't it be FUCKING hilarious if this actually worked really well and everyone loved it and it taught people to wait for shit to come out before they get all butt hurt about it.

It would.

What's that? We already know matchmaking is shit? Fancy that.

look @ it this way thank god for hamachi

kibayasu:

philzibit:
Hey, wouldn't it be FUCKING hilarious if this actually worked really well and everyone loved it and it taught people to wait for shit to come out before they get all butt hurt about it.

It would.

What's that? We already know matchmaking is shit? Fancy that.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 99% of the PC game attempts to include matchmaking have failed miserably. Left 4 Dead had an okay system (still below the level of a dedicated server), but that's owed heavily to the fact that Left 4 Dead only has a maximum of 8 players running around, rather than 16+. Yet, even with the lower player count, Left 4 Dead often still had lag.

take the freakin mouse out of your hand, get with todays age and put funkin xbox controller in your hand,stop complaining and just go buy a console

lovevivalabam:
take the freakin mouse out of your hand, get with todays age and put funkin xbox controller in your hand,stop complaining and just go buy a console

we dont want a console system or setup...that's why we choose to play on pc...because it is not and should not be a console experience

edit: and welcome to the forums

thank you and why not why dont you guys want console so many more people play them than a pc i think the only good reason to play pc is that they get some crazy good games that dont come out to the consoles and level creator for call of duty

lovevivalabam:
thank you and why not why dont you guys want console so many more people play them than a pc i think the only good reason to play pc is that they get some crazy good games that dont come out to the consoles and level creator for call of duty

PC Gaming

Pros:
- Higher resolutions and framerates
- Aiming with a mouse is more accurate than with a joystick.
- Generally a far more mature and respectful gaming community than any of the console services.
- Dedicated servers will always outclass the unpredictable matchmaking we see in console shooters (No lag, reliable, customizable, higher player count).
- Modifications for added replay value.
- Long time mantra of PC gamers is quality > quantity.

Cons:
- First time purchase of a gaming PC can edge on the expensive side.
- Less "trendy" than console gaming.
- Depending on the player, PC gaming can be more complex than consoles.
- No plug-and-play.

Console Gaming

Pros:
- Trendy and excellent for casual parties.
- Has a fair deal of console exclusives.
- Plug-And-Play design
- Generally geared to the casual gamer.
- 100% certainty the game will run on your system.

Cons:
- Cost of upgrading to a new console is very expensive.
- Matchmaking is often very unreliable and filled with lag.
- Customization is limited.
- Lack of fully developed online gaming communities.
- Maximum player count is severely lowered.
- Network is often more unreliable than PC (if Xbox Live goes down, there is no chance you'll be online til it's back up).
- Less accurate aiming in most games.
- RTS flat out doesn't work on a console.

I'm sure I missed a few aspects on both sides, but that's a decent illustration of the differences. What it really comes down to is the experience you're looking for. I'm personally a big fan of PC gaming, and I also enjoy playing on my Xbox 360 during parties or when I have friends over. In this particular case, Infinity Ward/Activision is taking one of the cons of console gaming and attempting to implement it on the PC. It has been proven time and time again that matchmaking simply isn't a reliable or desirable online service for PC gaming.

lovevivalabam:
i think the only good reason to play pc is that they get some crazy good games that dont come out to the consoles and level creator for call of duty

that is one of the reasons we like playing on pc, we get the odd exclusive game. but the other reasons are things like strategy games being almost unplayable on a console, once you move past action and racing games you find the consoles suffer trying to provide other games. the second is that mouse and keyboard feel more natural for loads of people.

the big thing about the servers is that pc gamers are used to being able to play with the same people they know, they are used to being able to set up their own maps with their own options and being able to host a unique game that you can drop in or out of without the game having to stop.

luckshot:

ph3onix:

Danny Ocean:
Snipety snip

Qft Mr. Ocean, Qft.

my thoughts exactly
in my experience

DEDICATED SERVERS:
scroll through a list PICK WHAT I WANT, join server, play
vs.
MATCHMAKING:
various menus, wait for computer to find other players --about 50% of the time this step needs to be repeated--, wait for it to show what map we can play, vote on map -with the possibility of another bad map-, wait for map to load, play...assuming it isn't a huge lag fest and the player that is acting as the host doesnt leave

truth and win

JeanLuc761:
Left 4 Dead had an okay system (still below the level of a dedicated server), but that's owed heavily to the fact that Left 4 Dead only has a maximum of 8 players running around, rather than 16+. Yet, even with the lower player count, Left 4 Dead often still had lag.

L4D has dedicated servers.

D4zZ:
L4D has dedicated servers.

My fault, must have been a bad connection on my end then. Damn wireless!

Actually, come to think of it, Left 4 Dead ran like a dream on a wired FIOS connection, no matter what game I joined...I feel a tad foolish now.

philzibit:
Hey, wouldn't it be FUCKING hilarious if this actually worked really well and everyone loved it and it taught people to wait for shit to come out before they get all butt hurt about it.

But than my faith in humanity may be slightly restored and I can't have that.

Jandau:
Shouldn't you be asking for those features in your own console games? Shouldn't console gamers be demanding better treatment and access to such features? And can you in any way deny that you're just being an arse when expressing joy at someone else's misery? I would love to see console gamers get the option to set up dedicated servers. I wouldn't feel bad if they got dedicated server support for all their games. Heck, I'd be happy since it would be a good thing for all gamers. And yet, you squal with joy whenever PC gamers get screwed over. Must be mouse envy...

We have been, for several years and they give us nothing.
IW was blaming the game engine, saying it can't use them. They also said the engine would not allow for in game host migration, which they've now added. So they've either made a new engine or were lying from the start.
The point is, the majority of PC gamers act like they're better than console gamers. It's nice to see you guys getting knocked down to the console gamers' level. Deal with it, we have been for years.

You'll also notice, I removed the part of your quote with the foul language, you have been reported. Have a nice day.

DemonI81:
You'll also notice, I removed the part of your quote with the foul language, you have been reported. Have a nice day.

Swearing isn't report worthy, unless it is aimed at someone. I also fail to see his language as foul.

It's nice to see you guys getting knocked down to the console gamers' level.

Why is that nice? It means somewhere, even if it isn't on your precious format, gaming quality has been knocked down for the sake of profit. I don't see how this move benefits any gamers in the long run.

DemonI81:
The point is, the majority of PC gamers act like they're better than console gamers. It's nice to see you guys getting knocked down to the console gamers' level. Deal with it, we have been for years.

So we deserve to be punished because console consumers sat back and took the decline in quality without demanding improvement? I fail to see the logic here.

JeanLuc761:

DemonI81:
The point is, the majority of PC gamers act like they're better than console gamers. It's nice to see you guys getting knocked down to the console gamers' level. Deal with it, we have been for years.

So we deserve to be punished because console consumers sat back and took the decline in quality without demanding improvement? I fail to see the logic here.

Except that you deserve it for all of you being hypocritical pricks in this thread. I dunno how many times I'd be able to count the amount of people saying "Console players should be siding with us! In other news, WE'RE FAR BETTAR THAN CONSOLE PLAYERS HARHARHAR!"

The point being, if you want us to actually side with you, you should stop being ignorant elitist hypocrits.

No_Remainders:
Except that you deserve it for all of you being hypocritical pricks in this thread. I dunno how many times I'd be able to count the amount of people saying "Console players should be siding with us! In other news, WE'RE FAR BETTAR THAN CONSOLE PLAYERS HARHARHAR!"
I fail to understand how you're getting "We're superior!" out of "We'd like your help to improve the gaming experience." If they're screwing us, the hardcore fanbase, over you can bet your ass they'll have no issue screwing over console gamers more if it suits their purpose.

The point being, if you want us to actually side with you, you should stop being ignorant elitist hypocrits.
Your side is just as bad if not worse; DemonI81 blatantly admitted that he thinks console gaming is the inferior experience, and simultaneously bashes the people who enjoy PC gaming more. Everyone has their own opinion and preferred experience, and to suggest that one side deserves punishment and to be "brought down to the console gamers' level" simply for the reason they prefer a certain platform (and demand quality from said platform) is bogus.

Also, if you scroll up a few posts or so, you'll see I illustrated the advantages to each platform. This isn't necessarily about PC gaming being better, it's about a jackass move from Infinity Ward/Activision to remove a staple of PC gaming.

JeanLuc761:
*snip*

Right, you say that "Everyone has their own opinion", except for the fact that if I was to scroll back through the thread, I'd find so many PC elitist pricks saying "Fuck you, console players *insert rant making them look like massive twat here* blah, blah, blah, etc."

I never said that you deserve it because you prefer a certain platform, I said you deserve it for the fact that there are probably 1 out of every, I dunno, 1000 or so PC players that understand how "opinions" work.

I'm not saying that EVERY console gamer is better than PC gamers. It's just that PC gamers are all elitist graphics whores who will be spoonfed practically anything as long as it has a server list and nice graphics.

Being frank, I prefer PC gaming, but I keep to the strict rule of only ever playing old games (Half-Life, Halo: Combat Evolved, Age of Mythology, etc, etc, etc)

Oh, by the way, I hate the way the PC players continuously go back to the aiming debate. Ok, maybe you do play better with a keyboard and mouse. I'll still take a controller on sensitivity 8 (9 sometimes) any day.

No_Remainders:
I'm not saying that EVERY console gamer is better than PC gamers. It's just that PC gamers are all elitist graphics whores who will be spoonfed practically anything as long as it has a server list and nice graphics.

You tell me that 1 out of every 1000 PC gamers understand how opinions work...and then you present your own opinion as a fact? I'm sorry, but that seriously undermines your credibility.

For the record, I firmly believe that PC gamers do have a high percentage of elitists, but this isn't always a bad thing. For example, being elitist about your platform means that you will continually demand the highest quality possible from your games. The only time elitism becomes a problem is when you ignore the opinions of others and start presenting your own opinions as fact.

DemonI81:

Jandau:
Shouldn't you be asking for those features in your own console games? Shouldn't console gamers be demanding better treatment and access to such features? And can you in any way deny that you're just being an arse when expressing joy at someone else's misery? I would love to see console gamers get the option to set up dedicated servers. I wouldn't feel bad if they got dedicated server support for all their games. Heck, I'd be happy since it would be a good thing for all gamers. And yet, you squal with joy whenever PC gamers get screwed over. Must be mouse envy...

We have been, for several years and they give us nothing.
IW was blaming the game engine, saying it can't use them. They also said the engine would not allow for in game host migration, which they've now added. So they've either made a new engine or were lying from the start.
The point is, the majority of PC gamers act like they're better than console gamers. It's nice to see you guys getting knocked down to the console gamers' level. Deal with it, we have been for years.

You'll also notice, I removed the part of your quote with the foul language, you have been reported. Have a nice day.

First of all, "douchebag" is hardly foul language and wasn't directed straight at you (if you felt included in it, that's your problem), so I doubt I'll get into too much trouble...

Second, you're saying IW have been lying to your and screwing you over, and now you're mad at PC gamers? Right, that makes perfect sense.

And thrid, thank you for confirming what I posted before. You are taking pleasure in someone else's problems and that's petty at the very least. Also, you seem to suffer from some strange form of persecution complex in which you seem to think all PC gamers get together regularly and discuss the best ways to discriminate against console gamers. Perhaps you should get some counseling for that...

This is all way off topic.

The reason they're doing this is to make doubly sure that nobody could find a loophole to allow mods in the game, because they want to sell DLC.

Also, by not allowing people to find good servers and form communities around those, they are taking away the aspect of playing with other people you know, breaking up clans and turning the whole thing into an individual grind to get kills. Which, of course, is easier with the optional DLC heat seeking rockets. That'll be $10, please.

And if people quit because the matchmaking system doesn't allow them to have a reliable, stable multiplayer experience (or any at all - meaning you don't sit and 'wait for players' forever), then IW wins again, because they already have the money and the DLC money and now the players are off the server and on the market for the next title.