I'm all right with matchmaking, but I prefer to choose what server i'll be playing. Get to know the people on that server and make new friends and have it be a regular place I come to play.

gof22:

If you cant figure out how to use a server browser or sort a list you have no reason even using a computer. If you cant do either of these you are computer illiterate and need to go take classes. You are more likely prone to doing more harm to the computer then good and should go pick up a console controller where you can do no damage.

Just because someone can't use a server browser or a sort list shouldn't be restricted to not using a computer. What about the people who don't play PC games and just use the PC for businesses or E-mail?

Sorting a list is a basic function, if you have trouble with that how are you going to figure out how to use your business software? The point is take a class or pick up a book and educate yourself.

Imagine the l4d match-making system, now imagine the CSS server system.

I think it's pretty unanimous what we thought was less stressfull.

Kind Regards
Will

Why wouldn't they include dedicated servers as an OPTION?
Matchmaking so far has been mediocre at best, and on average quite shitty. Even if IW does make awesome improvements to it, why not keep open an option that is a big selling point?
Also, the lack of mod support, almost by definition, makes this game at least 50% less fun to play.

i myself facepalmed when i first heard about this. ive tried the console matchmaking system and i hate it. Infinity Seems to go more and more "screw PC, consoles FTW" even tho COD started as a PC exclusive. in COD4 there were no prestige and not as many patches.

if they dont re-input Dedicated Servers, im seriously doubting buying it.

Chipperz:

Zac_Dai:
If you can't use a server browser you probably shouldn't even be using a PC.

And responses like this is why it's very, very hard to feel sorry for PC gamers. I gave up trying when they start trying to tell me that console gaming is a "second-rate experience". Rather have twelve-year old screechers than elitist cunts, myself.

CantFaketheFunk:

Booze Zombie:
I never found finding a server clunky.

You just click the filters for locked games, full games and high-ping games and press search, how hard is it to do that?

This is because you are a PC gamer, and you are accustomed to doing these things. You (and I) are hardwired to do these things, just as we are hardwired to moving with a mouse and keyboard as intuitively as, say, walking.

It's still a pretty massive obstacle when it comes to accessibility.

Seriously. It's all about this. If I'd never played a FPS before, would you expect me to know what ping is? Why is more of it a good thing? Why are you calling me a "noob"? Why is noone helping me? Well, I guess I won't bother with this, I'll go back and not help fund more games.

Also, I've just had a thought - if Console gamers had to put up withthe quagmire of server selection, we'd be told to suck it up and deal with it. Why is it not OK to do it the other way round?

the only FPS in PC i played was Halo 1

i never understood what a "PING" was or how the hell i was supposed to create a server

i got tired of entering games where there was just one dude in a frikken tank driving outside of the map (it looked funny thought his tank flying trough the top)

but whenever i did managed to play, it felt good!

mind you i always felt i was missing something of the experience, not understanding at all what the hell i was doing.

CantFaketheFunk:

In the end, though, this is just sound and fury, signifying nothing. Infinity Ward will probably not be swayed, Modern Warfare 2 will come out as planned, everyone who hemmed and hawed over this will still buy the game (though they'll still complain) and it will sell a hojillion bazillion copies.

Update: Or maybe not. Quoth the very same Bowler, in response to the controversy: "Definitely made a big wave, and the response will not be ignored. I'll ensure everyone at IW sees the petitions and responses to it."

(Via VG247)

Permalink

Wrong again....

I hope they change this. PC gaming is about our communities not a community that the company will try and create.

I guess 100,000 PC gamers did just get to IW huh Funk?

Now you have to pay ten extra dollars... for what? Increasing the price and taking away third party servers and mods? Talk about suck, who PR's for this company?

Not like it's going to matter, we'll all still buy it and prove Activision can put garbage on our plate (slightly more expensive than before garbage) and we'll still eat it.

I find all the rage over this to be a bit immature. Yes, it sucks IW changed it to a console multiplayer scheme. It also sucks when Uwe Boll makes a game into a movie and changes things about it.

I myself will still buy MW2 and make my judgments about it when I play it. Not rage over it and refuse to buy it.

Petition passed the 97000 mark sometime today.

Never really cared of the match making shit until I remembered how I use to play ALL my multiplayer games. I join my favourite servers where the people I'm used to talk to offenly are located.

Sorry for being slow, *signed

Xombee:

...Not like it's going to matter, we'll all still buy it and prove Activision can put garbage on our plate (slightly more expensive than before garbage) and we'll still eat it.

speak for yourself, i'm not buying this poop! I'll still play the game tho >:3

So, the 'Nay's have it, then.

GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH why is everyone doing this to us? first valve now IW? I'm surprised EA hasn't hopped on this yet.

HAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!1! Now the PC gamers know what it's like to have the kind of game that console gamers have! You guys got TF2 updates while us console gamers withered and died. Misery LOVES company.
OT: I've never really used dedicated servers (although I don't know what they are exactly), but I don't see why these developers would want to nerf their game to make it even.
If anything just make the console version better.
Actually, this might be a way to stop piracy. They make it so you have to use their servers, where they could check your game for authenticity. Also, the no mods rule could alienate piraters of the game as well.
Edit: also, I'm boycotting this anyways, because of the BS they did in Europe.

While I can be sympathetic to the article's points about too many people saying "change is bad", it completely glosses over some of the actual, problematic implications of IWs proposed scheme.

Let's also hand a little bit of blame for the internet firestorm to IW for completely botching the reveal of this info (random tidbit on a podcast, without any sort of official follow-up detailing what exactly is going on). A void of info is a perfect place for fear and conjecture, which is exactly where we are now.

Server browsers are archaic, and anybody who can replace them with something magical should be supported, but removing dedicated server support, and removing any and all choice as to who, where, and how you play the game with others is problematic for a PC user base whose communities are built around those features in other games. Not to mention, if the next LAN party I attend has any particular criteria for a game, you can bet your *** that one of them is the support for a Dedicated Server. It just makes life better. Innovate away, make the system better, but be careful how much functionality you're cutting by simplifying the interface.

Per "insular small communities" and IWs supposed "larger", all-inclusive community: bigger isn't necessarily better. Halo 3's online community is huge, and I get a great deal of enjoyment from it. But if I could be playing Halo 3, and choosing servers like I do with DoD, TF2, or BF2? I'd take that any day. The random crapshoot of "awesome people to play with" mixed with "complete d*****bags who TK for kicks" in Halo 3, since I'm part of a giant community where I can't wall off a garden of like-minded players, is not a plus.

and they want £50 for this worthless piss puddle?

And anyone who says finding a server using a browser must be totally computer illiterate. No, make that completely illiterate. My little brother, an average 13 year old console gamer, managed to work out the server browser with no trouble when he played TF2.

So yeah, even your average 360 gamer whose vocabulary consists entirely of "fag" could work it out.

CantFaketheFunk:

Booze Zombie:
I never found finding a server clunky.

You just click the filters for locked games, full games and high-ping games and press search, how hard is it to do that?

This is because you are a PC gamer, and you are accustomed to doing these things. You (and I) are hardwired to do these things, just as we are hardwired to moving with a mouse and keyboard as intuitively as, say, walking.

It's still a pretty massive obstacle when it comes to accessibility.

Matchmaking does not make the game accessible it just means you will probably end up with someone who has a crap connection because the algorithm being used is terrible. Are you going to tell me it is good that in most console games you cannot freely map the buttons and sticks to whatever you want because putting a button configuration menu is too complicated? You want to talk about accessibility why don't you talk about how it is practically impossible to play Uncharted 2, Halo 3/ODST, Gears of War 1, or Killzone 2 with the Southpaw options they provide because the morons who make these games cannot seem to understand that the buttons need to be swapped as well for Southpaw, if you expect human beings to actually be able to use this configuration. Why not bring up how often Legacy is neglected in shooters of all kinds even when Southpaw and button mapping are included? Why not talk about the lack of options to increase font size of subtitles in most games?

Accessibility is not, and never has been about taking away control from people, it has always been about giving people control.

CantFaketheFunk:
I could understand the furor over the lack of mods, since mods are always fun, but - of all things - complaining because we're not using traditional server technology? Are all FPS games going to have to have a server browser from now until the end of time? What happens when genuinely better tech comes along?

Let's face the music, PC gamers: Server browsers are usually clunky and unintuitive. In trying to teach a (non-PC-gaming) friend how to play TF2, the first twenty or so minutes were just spent on how to sort through and select a server. I know that we PC gamers like to think of ourselves as an exclusive little club of special kids who hold high reign above those console lowlifes, but really? Are people really complaining about a more easily accessible game with modern matchmaking technology?

Do you see this? DO YOU SEE THIS? THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

More intuitive and accessible does NOT EQUAL better technology. The whole idea behind purchasing games for PC rather than console for me has always been about the open-ended technology. I am upset there are no mods, but I'm flabbergasted that they would voluntarily limit the game to a mode less conducive to good gameplay experiences. Left 4 Dead on PC only does matchmaking, and I just couldn't stand to play it - why should I put up with 150-200 ping in L4D when I can use the TF2 server browser to jack right in to a 20ms game?(which isn't that fucking difficult! filter full empty and pw games, sort by ping and pick a damn game!)

shadow skill:

Accessibility is not ad never has been about taking away control from people, it has always been about giving people control.

yep yep yep yep yep right on, if you want to make the game more accessible, have a matchmaking option ASWELL as a traditional server model. that way both parties are please and the game looses nothing valuable in the process

Considering that matchmaking is generally the superior online system, I don't see why many people are complaining.

It finds the best ping it can, doesn't end (generally) when the host decides to be a dick, creates a variety of map and gametype selections, (which doesn't exist past the first month in server-based games) and with enough work creates a generally fair and balanced gaming enviroment.

The only arguements I see against it are "community" and "player choice". To which I say "@#$% off and take your mods with you" and "Stop being a self-centered prick". Communities still form in MM systems - they're called friend lists. Use'em. And your personal tastes do not give you the right to force them on other people, or to deny them the ability to enjoy their own, which is the only thing server systems do. The only fair thing to do is what MM does - create a varying pool of types and maps, and randomly select a pair each game. Everyone has the same chance to be happy, upset, or come out neutral.

And it believe it or not, it actually forces you to be a better player, because it makes you play with different people, in different settings, instead of repeating the same scenario with the same people over and over.

Chipperz:

Zac_Dai:
If you can't use a server browser you probably shouldn't even be using a PC.

And responses like this is why it's very, very hard to feel sorry for PC gamers. I gave up trying when they start trying to tell me that console gaming is a "second-rate experience". Rather have twelve-year old screechers than elitist cunts, myself.

I think this sums up how I feel completely.

Why do PC gamers ALWAYS whine about pretty much everything if they don't get what they want?

Who really cares that it's matchmaking? Matchmaking is perfectly fine. It stops people from getting completely pro at one map and one map only. I think it's a good plan.

300lb. Samoan:

CantFaketheFunk:
I could understand the furor over the lack of mods, since mods are always fun, but - of all things - complaining because we're not using traditional server technology? Are all FPS games going to have to have a server browser from now until the end of time? What happens when genuinely better tech comes along?

Let's face the music, PC gamers: Server browsers are usually clunky and unintuitive. In trying to teach a (non-PC-gaming) friend how to play TF2, the first twenty or so minutes were just spent on how to sort through and select a server. I know that we PC gamers like to think of ourselves as an exclusive little club of special kids who hold high reign above those console lowlifes, but really? Are people really complaining about a more easily accessible game with modern matchmaking technology?

Do you see this? DO YOU SEE THIS? THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

More intuitive and accessible does NOT EQUAL better technology. The whole idea behind purchasing games for PC rather than console for me has always been about the open-ended technology. I am upset there are no mods, but I'm flabbergasted that they would voluntarily limit the game to a mode less conducive to good gameplay experiences. Left 4 Dead on PC only does matchmaking, and I just couldn't stand to play it - why should I put up with 150-200 ping in L4D when I can use the TF2 server browser to jack right in to a 20ms game?(which isn't that fucking difficult! filter full empty and pw games, sort by ping and pick a damn game!)

I know right? OP makes it sound like the browser is based on binary language that you need a translator to understand. It's real goddamn simple the lower the ping, the less lag you will experience.

when i found out they are charging the same price for both the console and PC version it really killed it for me. Consoles get the autoaim so if they charge the same and gonna have the same server setup will we be expecting autoaim for the PC version too?

Yeah people since when have challenge go by the way side of convenience?

Just don't buy the PC version. The only way to get the message home is hurting them in their wallets, otherwise all this is all for nothing.

Why not allow BOTH!

There is absolutely no reason at all (apart from the all fun-sucking fail of Activision meddling) to not have a "casual" automated matchmaking mode with no dedicated servers along with an "enthusiast" mode where you can join the server with the best ping or with the community you like, etc.

Let's not delude ourselves that this is entirely IW's decision, the king of fail Activision is running that show whether we like it or not, the sooner IW see sense and jump that rotten ship to a more respectable publisher is the sooner bullshit like this will stop.

(PS, join Valve, IW. It'll be great. Though if I know this market I suspect Microsoft have been eyeing IW for a while now...)

No_Remainders:

Chipperz:

Zac_Dai:
If you can't use a server browser you probably shouldn't even be using a PC.

And responses like this is why it's very, very hard to feel sorry for PC gamers. I gave up trying when they start trying to tell me that console gaming is a "second-rate experience". Rather have twelve-year old screechers than elitist cunts, myself.

I think this sums up how I feel completely.

Why do PC gamers ALWAYS whine about pretty much everything if they don't get what they want?

Who really cares that it's matchmaking? Matchmaking is perfectly fine. It stops people from getting completely pro at one map and one map only. I think it's a good plan.

If matchmaking is fine why is it that I almost always seem to end up in terrible games whenever I use matchmaking systems? It couldn't be because the algorithm for choosing a game that the machine uses is not so great could it?

Why do ignorant people always claim that taking away control increases accessibility when the exact opposite is true?

Paragon Fury:
Considering that matchmaking is generally the superior online system, I don't see why many people are complaining.

It finds the best ping it can, doesn't end (generally) when the host decides to be a dick, creates a variety of map and gametype selections, (which doesn't exist past the first month in server-based games) and with enough work creates a generally fair and balanced gaming enviroment.

The only arguements I see against it are "community" and "player choice". To which I say "@#$% off and take your mods with you" and "Stop being a self-centered prick". Communities still form in MM systems - they're called friend lists. Use'em. And your personal tastes do not give you the right to force them on other people, or to deny them the ability to enjoy their own, which is the only thing server systems do. The only fair thing to do is what MM does - create a varying pool of types and maps, and randomly select a pair each game. Everyone has the same chance to be happy, upset, or come out neutral.

And it believe it or not, it actually forces you to be a better player, because it makes you play with different people, in different settings, instead of repeating the same scenario with the same people over and over.

Aren't you just forcing your preference for matchmaking onto other people while whining that servers do this, despite the fact that you can choose whatever server you want? What makes it impossible to have match making and a server browser?

PS.

Anyone too thick to figure out how to select a server from a list a la TF2 is likely too thick to operate a PC or install PC games in the first place.

This article was clearly written by someone with little to no experience with PC gaming.

Pigletdude:
No I'm not feeling like I'm in a "little special club of special kids", I genuinely bloody prefer dedicated servers, after playing the likes of DoW 2 mess of a matchmaking and all those games with quickmatches which screw me over.
I'm just more inclined to the manual, "do it yourself" ethos, accessible is one thing, but taking away choice is another thing I'm not loving, if we can have dedicated servers, but the devs can't be arsed to change one friggin thing for the PC port then I deserve to be pissed off.

so........the PC version deserves to be better than the 360 and ps3 versions, right, after they said they are treating MW2 as an equal on all platforms, the pc version obviously needs to have something the other ones dont.

am I hitting the point here? if not I could go on.....

Im tired of the PC gamers "awww, you play on a console? how cute." mentality, I play console games because I dotn feel like optimizing my computer to get a viable frame-rate, I play consoles simply because jumping into a server on most PC games results in you getting booted because you are not a regular player there, therefor don't have a right to be there. Modern Warfare for the consoles runs possibly better than the PC version for one simple reason, you get everything you need with it. Sure you might not get modded servers, but playing "cops and robbers" gets old, fast. Also, if PC's are better, then why is a big fuss being made about dropping dedicated servers? I mean, the console versions never had them, and look how well they do.

only reasoning I can think of is that their internet connections suck, in that case: console > pc.

Oh boo hoo. This is why I chose consoles over PC...to avoid stuff such as this. The user created mods I can somewhat understand but no dedicated servers? boo hoo!

CONGRATULATIONS, you have managed to completely miss the point!

CantFaketheFunk:

Infinity Ward's decision to remove a traditional dedicated server browser from Modern Warfare 2 has PC gaming fanatics going completely berserk.

It's not just the browser that's going, it's the dedicated servers that are going.

CantFaketheFunk:

instead, the PC version will use the same peer-to-peer matchmaking formula of its console brethren.
[snip]
In theory, the "console" archetype simply distributes the hosting load to the player with the best connection

^
This is what is coming instead of dedicated servers.

CantFaketheFunk:

I could understand the furor over the lack of mods, since mods are always fun, but - of all things - complaining because we're not using traditional server technology? Are all FPS games going to have to have a server browser from now until the end of time? What happens when genuinely better tech comes along?

This isn't better tech, it's worse tech. It's unfortunately necessary tech for consoles but you can't seriously be suggesting that it's better than a dedicated machine.

To simply illustrate my point, this "new" system existed on PC in the previous Call of Duty games as well(minus matchmaking) yet nobody played it as it completely sucks compared to the comfort of a dedicated server.

When genuinely better tech comes along there won't be any problems as it will be genuinely better. This is genuinely worse.

CantFaketheFunk:

Let's face the music, PC gamers: Server browsers are usually clunky and unintuitive. In trying to teach a (non-PC-gaming) friend how to play TF2, the first twenty or so minutes were just spent on how to sort through and select a server.

You are either exaggerating here or... dude, 20 minutes to explain a server browser... that's just... wow.

CantFaketheFunk:

Are people really complaining about a more easily accessible game with modern matchmaking technology?

This uproar isn't about the introduction of matchmaking system, fine... matchmake all you like, it will be great for people just starting to play the game being matched against similarly skilled opponents. It is, or at least should be as it isn't out yet, a good system.

You can have matchmaking AND dedicated servers.

You're confusing the method of finding a place to play(matchmaking, server browser) with the technology of how the game works(dedicated server, ad-hoc game). And quite frankly I'm not sure you understand what you're talking about here.

CantFaketheFunk:

Even then: It might be true that they create little insular communities (even if I'd be willing to bet most gamers just pick servers primarily based on map/ping/how full they are), but couldn't one argue that Infinity Ward is simply trying to make one larger community?

Weren't you yourself arguing FOR smaller communities in your mumorpoger column just a few weeks ago?

CantFaketheFunk:
-snip-

I have but one simple rebuttal to you Funk. How would the Escapist have held that TF2 tournament a while back if it weren't for server browsing?

Chipperz:

Zac_Dai:
If you can't use a server browser you probably shouldn't even be using a PC.

And responses like this is why it's very, very hard to feel sorry for PC gamers. I gave up trying when they start trying to tell me that console gaming is a "second-rate experience". Rather have twelve-year old screechers than elitist cunts, myself.

CantFaketheFunk:

Booze Zombie:
I never found finding a server clunky.

You just click the filters for locked games, full games and high-ping games and press search, how hard is it to do that?

This is because you are a PC gamer, and you are accustomed to doing these things. You (and I) are hardwired to do these things, just as we are hardwired to moving with a mouse and keyboard as intuitively as, say, walking.

It's still a pretty massive obstacle when it comes to accessibility.

Seriously. It's all about this. If I'd never played a FPS before, would you expect me to know what ping is? Why is more of it a good thing? Why are you calling me a "noob"? Why is noone helping me? Well, I guess I won't bother with this, I'll go back and not help fund more games.

Also, I've just had a thought - if Console gamers had to put up withthe quagmire of server selection, we'd be told to suck it up and deal with it. Why is it not OK to do it the other way round?

1) Ping is not something exclusive to FPS. Every online game deals with ping, even in consoles.
2) More of it is a BAD thing.
3) Oh, right, I forgot how lovely the console community was, and how everyone loves each other so fucking much that they never call each other noob.
4) idem 3

Plus, how intuitive it is has no relation to being used to it or not. I figured out how to work a server filter when I first played Counter Strike, 10 years ago. I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD. It took me, at most, a minute.

SilentHunter7:

CantFaketheFunk:
-snip-

I have but one simple rebuttal to you Funk. How would the Escapist have held that TF2 tournament a while back if it weren't for server browsing?

Oh SNAP!

Kalezian:

Pigletdude:
No I'm not feeling like I'm in a "little special club of special kids", I genuinely bloody prefer dedicated servers, after playing the likes of DoW 2 mess of a matchmaking and all those games with quickmatches which screw me over.
I'm just more inclined to the manual, "do it yourself" ethos, accessible is one thing, but taking away choice is another thing I'm not loving, if we can have dedicated servers, but the devs can't be arsed to change one friggin thing for the PC port then I deserve to be pissed off.

so........the PC version deserves to be better than the 360 and ps3 versions, right, after they said they are treating MW2 as an equal on all platforms, the pc version obviously needs to have something the other ones dont.

am I hitting the point here? if not I could go on.....

Im tired of the PC gamers "awww, you play on a console? how cute." mentality, I play console games because I dotn feel like optimizing my computer to get a viable frame-rate, I play consoles simply because jumping into a server on most PC games results in you getting booted because you are not a regular player there, therefor don't have a right to be there. Modern Warfare for the consoles runs possibly better than the PC version for one simple reason, you get everything you need with it. Sure you might not get modded servers, but playing "cops and robbers" gets old, fast. Also, if PC's are better, then why is a big fuss being made about dropping dedicated servers? I mean, the console versions never had them, and look how well they do.

only reasoning I can think of is that their internet connections suck, in that case: console > pc.

They do well because people are ignorant, and ironically enough some of the biggest online games on consoles do use dedicated servers hosted by the game manufacturer. This has been going on since the PS2 with Socom. Also keep in mind that the practice of selling or renting out servers for console games could be done. User generated mods have been done on consoles (See UT3.) there is no reason for consoles to be stuck with a lesser experience in terms of connection, and user generated content. Are you going to tell me that the lack of user customizable controls in console games is a good thing just because you happen to like the defaults?

shadow skill:

No_Remainders:

Chipperz:

Zac_Dai:
If you can't use a server browser you probably shouldn't even be using a PC.

And responses like this is why it's very, very hard to feel sorry for PC gamers. I gave up trying when they start trying to tell me that console gaming is a "second-rate experience". Rather have twelve-year old screechers than elitist cunts, myself.

I think this sums up how I feel completely.

Why do PC gamers ALWAYS whine about pretty much everything if they don't get what they want?

Who really cares that it's matchmaking? Matchmaking is perfectly fine. It stops people from getting completely pro at one map and one map only. I think it's a good plan.

If matchmaking is fine why is it that I almost always seem to end up in terrible games whenever I use matchmaking systems? It couldn't be because the algorithm for choosing a game that the machine uses is not so great could it?

Why do ignorant people always claim that taking away control increases accessibility when the exact opposite is true?

Paragon Fury:
Considering that matchmaking is generally the superior online system, I don't see why many people are complaining.

It finds the best ping it can, doesn't end (generally) when the host decides to be a dick, creates a variety of map and gametype selections, (which doesn't exist past the first month in server-based games) and with enough work creates a generally fair and balanced gaming enviroment.

The only arguements I see against it are "community" and "player choice". To which I say "@#$% off and take your mods with you" and "Stop being a self-centered prick". Communities still form in MM systems - they're called friend lists. Use'em. And your personal tastes do not give you the right to force them on other people, or to deny them the ability to enjoy their own, which is the only thing server systems do. The only fair thing to do is what MM does - create a varying pool of types and maps, and randomly select a pair each game. Everyone has the same chance to be happy, upset, or come out neutral.

And it believe it or not, it actually forces you to be a better player, because it makes you play with different people, in different settings, instead of repeating the same scenario with the same people over and over.

Aren't you just forcing your preference for matchmaking onto other people while whining that servers do this, despite the fact that you can choose whatever server you want? What makes it impossible to have match making and a server browser?

Because its been done before, and it didn't work. People stop using the MM because they only want to play thier gametype and map all the time, and thus leave everyone who doesn't agree out in the cold.

Its not a question of having it both ways - its a question of making it hurt less for both sides while still maintaining a fair, playable, varied enviroment.