Weasel words. I mean, I can't think of any Triple A games that are PC exclusives, like Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Audiosurf, NOLF, Black and White, Starcraft, American McGee's Alice...

Maybe he just meant TripleA games.

...Age of Mythology, Dungeon Siege, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo...

He's right about PC exclusives. And, though he maybe the example he gave for stuff you couldn't afford wasn't a good one, there was no need to do 2 paragraphs explaining why he's wrong.

Somebody inform that guy that there's an elephant in the room with that theory. It's called World of Warcraft and it devours the budget of any "AAA" title with less then a year's worth of server upkeep, not counting the costs or all the expansions and content patches.

So says the head of a developer with little to no hit titles on the platform. Quake Wars is the only title of theirs that did well at all that I know of, and it isn't like it was a smash hit. I'll take his claims with a grain of salt thank you very much.

Im with you Maly. This dev is trying too hard at the things that dont make a game. I think good gaming music/voice acting, though important, can be done without blowing the budget on top tier actors or recording studios. I guarantee that is they took the time to brows through Acidplanet, they could come up with more then one artist that can make the kind of music the game needs. I also think most of those artists would be more then pleased just to have exposure and a paycheck (Not million dollar contracts.). Same goes for voice acting, you pass a guy on the street, like the sound of their voice and think they have what it takes give it a shot. That or look for one of the im sure is hundreds of quality voice actors that wont take your budget to the cleaners.

EDIT:
This could just be me but I would much rather see a "good" game over the high budget Hollywood style crap this "TripleA" tag seems to promote.

Malygris:
Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game? It might be great for some ego-stroking in pre-release interviews but does anyone really care (or even notice) whether the background music in their game of the week was recorded by the London Philharmonic or a local amateur orchestra? When he says "the best voice actors," is he talking about flying in Jean-Luc Picard for a half-hour of work, a quick lunch and 18 holes? (Come on, I loved Oblivion, but does anyone really think that was money well spent?)

Don't be ignorant Maly, some games only reach public eye because of their voice acting. You really think half as many people would have bought Brutal Legend if Jack Black wasn't the voice actor, or it was void of any kind of Metal rock?

The answer is, before you give me some kind of ironic statement, no. It wouldn't have. The majority of love for that game came from Jack Black and the entire Metal world he revolved around.

Sparrow:

Malygris:
Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game? It might be great for some ego-stroking in pre-release interviews but does anyone really care (or even notice) whether the background music in their game of the week was recorded by the London Philharmonic or a local amateur orchestra? When he says "the best voice actors," is he talking about flying in Jean-Luc Picard for a half-hour of work, a quick lunch and 18 holes? (Come on, I loved Oblivion, but does anyone really think that was money well spent?)

Don't be ignorant Maly, some games only reach public eye because of their voice acting. You really think half as many people would have bought Brutal Legend if Jack Black wasn't the voice actor, or it was void of any kind of Metal rock?

The answer is, before you give me some kind of ironic statement, no. It wouldn't have. The majority of love for that game came from Jack Black and the entire Metal world he revolved around.

And yet there are dozens of games that became phenomenons with absolutely no big name voice actors attached to it.

Malygris:

Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game?

He's talking about the little things that make the big picture. Take Uncharted 2. That game reached a high level of quality because of things such as top quality voice actors, music, etc. The same with other series' such as Silent Hill.

KSarty:

Sparrow:

Malygris:
Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game? It might be great for some ego-stroking in pre-release interviews but does anyone really care (or even notice) whether the background music in their game of the week was recorded by the London Philharmonic or a local amateur orchestra? When he says "the best voice actors," is he talking about flying in Jean-Luc Picard for a half-hour of work, a quick lunch and 18 holes? (Come on, I loved Oblivion, but does anyone really think that was money well spent?)

Don't be ignorant Maly, some games only reach public eye because of their voice acting. You really think half as many people would have bought Brutal Legend if Jack Black wasn't the voice actor, or it was void of any kind of Metal rock?

The answer is, before you give me some kind of ironic statement, no. It wouldn't have. The majority of love for that game came from Jack Black and the entire Metal world he revolved around.

And yet there are dozens of games that became phenomenons with absolutely no big name voice actors attached to it.

Indeed, I'm not disputing that. However, what I am disputing is Maly's rage at what he said. Games sell because of voice acting and soundtracks. Games also sell because of amazing gameplay and graphics, don't get me wrong. However, Maly's dispute was that voice acting and soundtracks are irrelevant, in which sense he is horribly, horribly wrong.

Leaving out the whole voice acting and music thing, lets look at piracy. how many millions did EA lose from the leak on Sims 3 a week before launch. hundreds of thousands of downloads, each meaning EA loses $50 a pop.

i always hear people complaining about how games dont come out for PC exclusivley any more, but its the same people who will go home and download the game for free instead of buying it.

if i developed a PC title, and only made back 1/4 of the development costs because everyone decided to steal the title instead, i'de be moving to consoles too

The_root_of_all_evil:
Weasel words. I mean, I can't think of any Triple A games that are PC exclusives, like Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Audiosurf, NOLF, Black and White, Starcraft, American McGee's Alice...

Maybe he just meant TripleA games.

...Age of Mythology, Dungeon Siege, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo...

Most of those were made a while back. One or two of the others are indie games for $10 or less. The rest haven't exactly set the world on fire, despite being good.

So yeah, he's right when he says that PC exclusives can't justify their budgets.

Actually I believe Splash Damage developed ET: Quake Wars. I'm not sure if it is a AAA title, but besides the terrible voice acting, it was a VERY fun game and had many traits found in games such as Battlefield.

Terramax:

Malygris:

Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game?

He's talking about the little things that make the big picture. Take Uncharted 2. That game reached a high level of quality because of things such as top quality voice actors, music, etc. The same with other series' such as Silent Hill.

Big name voice actors is not the same thing as quality voice actors. The point I believe Malygris is trying to make is that many other developers achieve very high levels of quality without feeling the need to hire the London Symphony Orchestra or renting out Abbey Road. You can make a great game without going balls to the wall as far as budget is concerned.

You may not like his reasoning but he's right though...If anyone truly thinks they can reach more people if they go PC exclusive then if they develop on a console they are sorely mistaken.

The PC market is smaller then the combined console market, period. Thats just a simple fact. It makes perfect sense that if given the choice to develop between a PC and Console a developer goes with a console. Thats just a sound business decision.

Sounds like he blew the budget on crap so blames it on the PC.

Wasn't quake wars a AAA game?

The_root_of_all_evil:
Weasel words. I mean, I can't think of any Triple A games that are PC exclusives, like Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Audiosurf, NOLF, Black and White, Starcraft, American McGee's Alice...

Maybe he just meant TripleA games.

...Age of Mythology, Dungeon Siege, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo...

Lol. Lol.
Starcraft? Wasn't exclusive.
Diablo 1? Wasn't exclusive.
Audiosurf? Not exclusive anymore.
Unreal Tournament? Wasn't exclusive.

No offense, but if you're gonna list "exclusives", please, make sure they are actually exclusive.

But I'm in agreement with the developer yet I'm not. There are games out there (World of Warcraft is a prime example, but that was right time + right place) that do show you can have an exclusive that defies all expectations, but often it's just either luck or sheer ingenuity. Most games now wouldn't survive as exclusives, purely because they won't sell in the numbers publishers want. Fallout 3, Call of Duty 4... Would they honestly be as well selling as they are now if they were PC exclusive? No, they wouldn't!

Sparrow:

Malygris:
Even as a die-hard PC gamer I was almost with him on this, until he got to the part about orchestras in London and recording at Abbey Road. What the hell does that have to do with making a game? It might be great for some ego-stroking in pre-release interviews but does anyone really care (or even notice) whether the background music in their game of the week was recorded by the London Philharmonic or a local amateur orchestra? When he says "the best voice actors," is he talking about flying in Jean-Luc Picard for a half-hour of work, a quick lunch and 18 holes? (Come on, I loved Oblivion, but does anyone really think that was money well spent?)

Don't be ignorant Maly, some games only reach public eye because of their voice acting. You really think half as many people would have bought Brutal Legend if Jack Black wasn't the voice actor, or it was void of any kind of Metal rock?

The answer is, before you give me some kind of ironic statement, no. It wouldn't have. The majority of love for that game came from Jack Black and the entire Metal world he revolved around.

True, but it would've been a bit difficult for it to even EXIST if there wasn't any metal, given that is the entire premise of the game.

coldalarm:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Weasel words. I mean, I can't think of any Triple A games that are PC exclusives, like Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Audiosurf, NOLF, Black and White, Starcraft, American McGee's Alice...

Maybe he just meant TripleA games.

...Age of Mythology, Dungeon Siege, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo...

Lol. Lol.
Starcraft? Wasn't exclusive.
Diablo 1? Wasn't exclusive.
Audiosurf? Not exclusive anymore.
Unreal Tournament? Wasn't exclusive.

No offense, but if you're gonna list "exclusives", please, make sure they are actually exclusive.

But I'm in agreement with the developer yet I'm not. There are games out there (World of Warcraft is a prime example, but that was right time + right place) that do show you can have an exclusive that defies all expectations, but often it's just either luck or sheer ingenuity. Most games now wouldn't survive as exclusives, purely because they won't sell in the numbers publishers want. Fallout 3, Call of Duty 4... Would they honestly be as well selling as they are now if they were PC exclusive? No, they wouldn't!

Shaky, few years later ports that didnt do very well hardly count, I mean Starcraft64? Are you REALLY going to mention that with a straight face. And we all know Diablo is designed for the PC, and as far as I'm aware, the iphone doesnt count as a platform in terms of ACTUAL gaming, anyway, why even mention Audiosurf in the first place, quote of guy im quoting, it's not an AAA title.

Malygris:
The point was never that the PC market can match the console market. The point is that Wedgwood seems to have some very confused ideas about what makes a "triple-A" game. Where I come from, at least, the measure is the quality of the product, not how much money you're able to blow on extraneous bullshit.

He's seen Brink. Perhaps he expects it to fail and is laying the groundwork now for his excuses when he next goes looking for funding.

I have Blizzard on the phone. Guess what they said?

But really he's probably right for most developers. However I don't think PC gamers care if the game is an exclusive or not. All we care about is not getting a sloppy console port with bad Keyboard/mouse controls and bad optimization.

If you make a quality PC port you will be rewarded, release a poor port and you will experience poor sales. Don't blame piracy either.

As stated Blizzard and also Valve and whatever company releases a QUALITY PC game are obviously making a good chunk of money.

coldalarm:

Lol. Lol.

Ah, an intellectual

No offense, but if you're gonna list "exclusives", please, make sure they are actually exclusive.

They were, but due to their sales, they were ported to other machines afterwards.

Would games sell as many copies if only on one machine? No...
Are there games exclusively for the PC that sell enough to be triple A rated? Well...yes.

He could probably make a Triple A game by putting Sonic back in a good game, or getting Valve to do a film intro. Doesn't make a difference what machine it's based on.

And there's a BIG difference between the XBox TF2 and the PC version, as I'm sure you're aware.

Malygris:
Or is he just clouding his otherwise-valid point by saying something really stupid in order to distract us all from the fact that Splash Damage has never actually made a triple-A game, or any game at all for that matter? Brink might turn out to be absolutely brilliant but if it does, it won't be because Wedgwood hired Sheena Easton and Mitch Pileggi to do voice work.

thanks for putting everything back into perspective.

That being said, his premise is probably right, but I love how he focused on Sound being the deciding factor between a triple-A game and chaff. You can use Wilhelm Screams and still make a triple-A Game. In fact, I fully suggest doing so, as they're awesome.

A message to everyone siding with Wedgewood about games needing to be high-budget to be successful...
I completely hate myself for saying this, but if that's true, why has the Wii been able to dominate the gaming market?

Don't get me wrong, a good budget's important, but to assume that gamers will only be enticed by the caviar of the industry is ignorant.

On another note, this really is the time to be investing in PC games. The PC gaming community is in the middle of a massive popularity boom right now.

You make a good point about Patrick Stewart. It was ultimately to the game's detriment that they hired a top-grade actor for such a brief amount of work (and likely a hefty fee), while letting down other aspects of voice acting because of it.

KSarty:

Big name voice actors is not the same thing as quality voice actors. The point I believe Malygris is trying to make is that many other developers achieve very high levels of quality without feeling the need to hire the London Symphony Orchestra or renting out Abbey Road. You can make a great game without going balls to the wall as far as budget is concerned.

Very good point but either way you need excessive amounts of money to achieve both which cannot be achieved if your game is exclusively for PC.

Furthermore I think he was taking Paul Wedgwood's comments a little too literally. I think what Paul was trying to say is exactly that, you need quality of everything to make a triple A. The last PC exclusive to achieve that was Crysis, but did it sell as well as EA and Crytec hoped? No.

If PC games don't sell enough copies to justify their development costs, unlike 10 years ago, this means:

- Games have gotten too expensive for no gameplay reason. If I wanted to watch a movie I'd watch a freaking movie. Diablo 2 wasn't popular because it had amazing voice actors or cutscenes.

- Games have gotten too heavy. I said it before and I'll say it again: there are many more PCs in the world than consoles, but few of those are gaming PCs. How about making a game that doesn't require a transdimensional PC to play? Like, hey, World of Warcraft. Even garbage like Runescape hits a huge market. But no, it all has to require a GForce832421093912 Turbo and then they're surprised that nobody has one.

- Multiplayer! It's free, everyone has it, but oh so few games are multiplayer oriented. World of Warcraft again, but also games like Trackmania. Look it up, it's the most popular PC racing game. Think about the hype surrounding Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. If you don't connect people to each other as soon as they log in, you decimate the multiplayer community and nobody is going to buy a game for 5 hours of gameplay, they'd rather pirate it.

Terramax:

KSarty:

Big name voice actors is not the same thing as quality voice actors. The point I believe Malygris is trying to make is that many other developers achieve very high levels of quality without feeling the need to hire the London Symphony Orchestra or renting out Abbey Road. You can make a great game without going balls to the wall as far as budget is concerned.

Very good point but either way you need excessive amounts of money to achieve both which cannot be achieved if your game is exclusively for PC.

Plenty of developers have managed to do it. I will use one of my favorite developers Relic as my example. As of yet they have only one game that is not a PC exclusive and are definitely in the top tier of developers if you ask me. Homeworld, Dawn of War, and now Company of Heroes are all wildly popular and have had great sales without investing in any over the top expenses that our dear Mr. Wedgwood would consider a "AAA" budget.

EDIT:

Enai Siaion:
- Games have gotten too heavy. I said it before and I'll say it again: there are many more PCs in the world than consoles, but few of those are gaming PCs. How about making a game that doesn't require a transdimensional PC to play? Like, hey, World of Warcraft. Even garbage like Runescape hits a huge market. But no, it all has to require a GForce832421093912 Turbo and then they're surprised that nobody has one.

I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but I rather enjoy seeing the PC used as testing grounds for the tech of next-gen consoles. PCs will always be ahead of consoles in that regard because of the length of time between console generations. I remember being thrilled that Company of Heroes required 1GB of ram in order to install because the minimum had been 512mb for so long that I felt the developers were getting lazy and not pushing forward with their tech at all.

Enai Siaion:
- Multiplayer! It's free, everyone has it, but oh so few games are multiplayer oriented. World of Warcraft again, but also games like Trackmania. Look it up, it's the most popular PC racing game. Think about the hype surrounding Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. If you don't connect people to each other as soon as they log in, you decimate the multiplayer community and nobody is going to buy a game for 5 hours of gameplay, they'd rather pirate it.

I'm not really sure why you brought this up at all. I can't seem to find the article now but I remember reading earlier this year that the PC still had a fairly overwhelming lead on consoles as far as their online user base was concerned.

KSarty:

Plenty of developers have managed to do it. I will use one of my favorite developers Relic as my example. As of yet they have only one game that is not a PC exclusive and are definitely in the top tier of developers if you ask me. Homeworld, Dawn of War, and now Company of Heroes are all wildly popular and have had great sales without investing in any over the top expenses that our dear Mr. Wedgwood would consider a "AAA" budget.

I'll take your word for it. I don't play RTS games, and I don't think it's a question of quality, but the fact that the PC is the only system that has a big enough market for RTS games (which looking at Wiki is all that they specialise in).

In other words, bad example.

Even though I'm a PC gamer, you have to admit this is kinda true