Yeah, it shouldn't be banned in Australia, but its not as if IW didn't see this coming. I'm pretty sure someone said, "Hey, a sequence where you kill innocents. I think people will take offense to this." Somebody had to have brought this up within IW, so they obviously had a good reason to keep it.

Just saying.

[Shrugs] My opinions on Australia are well known. Personally I still think the problem is that nobody will stand up to their goverment. Apparently Australian gamers don't care for it, so as I've said before, it's up to some big companies to get things rolling bu organizing some protests.

As far as Modern Warfare 2 goes, all I can do is sit here in shocked disbelief at both how naive people are, and how little memory they have. Truthfully slaughtering civilians in games isn't even anything new, nor is playing an evil character.

In general if you want to influance a society, attacking the military isn't going to accomplish anything. You need to break the culture and the central belief structure by reducing it to complete disorganization. In a REAL war like we haven't seen for a long time, the entire point of engaging the military is to get through them to the civilians that they protect because that is where you do the REAL damage to the society your facing. By the same token, especially in a civilized society with modern media, one of the quickest ways to get what you want is to terrify the civilians into forcing the goverment to do what they want. You kill soldiers that isn't all THAT scary, blow up some day care centers and have everyone afraid their kid could be next and well.... that's terrorism in a nutshell. In the US however we'd sacrifice the daycare centers since even the lose of thousands of children isn't worth complying, because once you give into terrorists it simply encourages people to try the same thing again next time some group wants something.

I have not seen the intro, so I do not know how they portray things, but basically I figure if a terrorist is going to blow up an air strip... well... he's a terrorist, he wants to spread fear, this is how things work. This is supposed to be realistic right? Grow the heck up.

Honestly I think the various "antiseptic" games give people the wrong idea about warfare, and it's a good thing to see people treating it seriously.

Personally I have long awaiting someone finally making a game about what REALLY happened during the final days of World War II. A game where your not just fighting the Nazis, but also the Volkssturm, with kids, peasants, and women raggedly throwing everything they have at your advance. As you fight building to building you run into civilians, and randomly those you don't kill or "spare" wind up eventually getting weapons (improvised or otherwise) and attacking your side when your most vulnerable. Leading people to realize what REAL war is like and the fact that nobody just lays down and dies, The Volkssturm being the German equivilent of the kids who yelled "Wolverines!" and formed a resistance in "Red Dawn", albeit
a lot more desperate. I think teaching the people the right way, that war is NOT pretty, antiseptic, or morally clear... it's us or them, not good or evil, is the correct thing to do and will lead to more mature attitudes. Indeed I'll even go so far as to say that I actually think that is how kids should learn it. That way war will be avoided as much as possible, but when it happens it will be fought properly and without any illusions.

I sort of wanted to see the Fallujah game for a lot of these reasons.

At any rate, the big question here is of course going to be if Australia's attitudes on MW 2 will inspire a company to take action and rally the gamer based, or if like Valve we can expect another round of flag waving. Personally I think France should start sending out gift baskets of cheese and wine to game companies, after all they are kindred spirits.

kommunizt kat:

pimppeter2:
Hmm, I'm actually a little more interested in MW2 now. Enough to buy it? I don't know

my answer to that (it is also the answer to most of my questions) is "why not?".

Because it costs 70 goddamn dollars.

kommunizt kat:

pimppeter2:
Hmm, I'm actually a little more interested in MW2 now. Enough to buy it? I don't know

my answer to that (it is also the answer to most of my questions) is "why not?".

Because I tend not to spend cash on things that I don't enjoy? That's why you don't see me sign up for the elephant wrestling class at my local community college...

I didn't like MW1 so I'm not sure if I will be a fan of 2

Oh for crying out loud, this isn't about children, it's about adults getting to play what they want to. If you're over 18 you should have access to such games. Especially when effort is clearly made to keep from glorifying a particular act.

I mean, seriously. If film does it, and books do it, why can't games do it? They're interactive, so what! That doesn't mean we're suddenly going to decide that a fictional thing that we control on a TV set has any semblance to reality.

Yes, insane people do this with films and novels all the time. The point is that they'd do it anyway, doesn't matter what medium you throw at them.

AkJay:
Australia seriously needs to chill the fuck out. Stop being attention whoring asshats.

Don't blame us. Blame the body that's doing this, and the people blocking the rating. And whoever reposts these article-oh wait, that'd include the website you're reading right now.

kommunizt kat:
Did australia ban GTA, or Saints row? (series). Did anyone complain about the mindless gang violence in these games? (they did I think but the games weren't banned). So I dont think it will get banned... (well I'm not sure about GTA or saints row being banned in australia).

Make note:

MODERN WARFARE 2 HAS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEEN BANNED IN AUSTRALIA

I wish I knew how to make bigger text. It still has a classification of MA15+, so retailers are legally obliged to ask for ID when selling the game to anyone who looks younger than 15. What we have here is an advocacy group who thinks this will be bad for the children, and have called for the OFLC to review the rating given to Modern Warfare 2. They have no power to make this happen, and if Atkinson hadn't opened his trap, the government would have no part to play in this particular piece of theatre.

As I said before, unless IW pulled some shennanigans, the OFLC gave the rating of MA15+ well aware of the prologue level, and I would say is very unlikely to look at it again. Australians will be able to buy Modern Warfare 2 from their local games retailers on release day (November 10th, I think).

Major Tom:

kommunizt kat:
Did australia ban GTA, or Saints row? (series). Did anyone complain about the mindless gang violence in these games? (they did I think but the games weren't banned). So I dont think it will get banned... (well I'm not sure about GTA or saints row being banned in australia).

Make note:

MODERN WARFARE 2 HAS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEEN BANNED IN AUSTRALIA

I wish I knew how to make bigger text. It still has a classification of MA15+, so retailers are legally obliged to ask for ID when selling the game to anyone who looks younger than 15. What we have here is an advocacy group who thinks this will be bad for the children, and have called for the OFLC to review the rating given to Modern Warfare 2. They have no power to make this happen, and if Atkinson hadn't opened his trap, the government would have no part to play in this particular piece of theatre.

As I said before, unless IW pulled some shennanigans, the OFLC gave the rating of MA15+ well aware of the prologue level, and I would say is very unlikely to look at it again. Australians will be able to buy Modern Warfare 2 from their local games retailers on release day (November 10th, I think).

I DIDNT SAY IT WAS BANNED I was saying this to reassure that the game wouldnt be banned. Please, dont write a reply without really understanding it. Did I say that it was banned? I said it wouldnt... my exact words were " So I dont think it will get banned..."

kommunizt kat:
I DIDNT SAY IT WAS BANNED I was saying this to reassure that the game wouldnt be banned. Please, dont write a reply without really understanding it. Did I say that it was banned? I said it wouldnt... my exact words were " So I dont think it will get banned..."

Ah.....well, sorry about that. It's just that the automatic response I'm hearing from the majority here is 'lol, Aussie banned MW2!' and it annoys me no end, and I think I let my nerd rage get in the way of seeing what you said.

If a game actually gets refused classification, fine, rag on our outdated videogame classification laws. But the OFLC didn't do anything wrong or inconsistent this time around, I'm not standing for people ragging on us anyway.

Major Tom:

I wish I knew how to make bigger text.

h1 /h1 in square brackets

Amnestic:
h1 /h1 in square brackets

Observe!

Excellent, thanks for that. Now, not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general statement of fact that is true at the time of writing:

MODERN WARFARE 2 HAS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEEN BANNED IN AUSTRALIA.

Lets see how many people ignore that one.

MultiPurposeBlue:

FLSH_BNG:
I don't see anything wrong with this... That must mean I'm an evil person... right?

I mean... it's just a game!

Also, I tip my hat to CanttaketheFunk.

I guess I am evil as well

me too, nothing new there.

Oh Wow, Michael Atkinson pisses himself in shock and horror. How Surprising.

@Major Tom: That is surprising. I thought Austrailia were getting much tougher after Fallout 3 xD

Furism:
(this might not be a popular post, since most people probably won't understand it)

This is awesome. Not killing civilians per say, but the fact that some game developers are pushing this so far. It's almost like art, where an artist tries to create a feeling of 'unease'. This is video games getting closer to art techniques, and this is what is awesome. Now, okay, they might not be subtle about it, but better forms will follow.

I wasn't planning on buying the game, but now will. Not because I want to kill civilians, mind, but to support a developer that promotes art in video games.

Anyone who has played Bioshock and has gotten to the part wherein;

Knows that forcing a gamer to do something heinous rather than giving them the choice to do it for MUCH LULZ (looking at you, GTA) will make the gamer feel really uncomfortable.

It did for me :/

i think the australian government have no idea what modern day culture is like nowadays then. there is no way it would encourage terrorism as not long after you will be shooting the terrorists anyway!

I can see the articles now...

"BOY GOES ON RAMPAGE! TERRORIST VIDEO GAME TO BLAME!"

CantFaketheFunk:

The consequences of terrorism are just abhorrent in our community and yet here we are with a product that's meant to be passed off as a leisure time activity, actually promoting what most world leaders speak out publicly against ... We understand that it's a game but ... we're not far off when you look at the images that you could actually put it on a Channel Nine news report and you'd think maybe that is real.

If that material was on the internet about how to become a terrorist, how to join a group and how to wipe out people - that would be removed because it would not be acceptable.

Meanwhile, notorious Aussie lawmaker, South Australian Attorney-General Michael Atkinson - known to many as the main reason why the country lacks a proper 18+ rating - seemed to agree that the sequence promoted terrorism. "Expecting game designers to be responsible by not glorifying terrorism will always lead to disappointment."

On the other hand, some critics were more sensible. Electronic Frontiers Australia spokesperson Nicholas Suzor argued that this sequence highlighted the need for a R18+ rating for videogames. "Films often show the villain's perspective and, by doing that, they get across the character's story and the heinous nature of people who carry out atrocities. Games, too, are becoming more expressive, and are telling more involved stories ... We may make an argument that these sorts of topics are not suitable for children, but I don't at all accept that it is unsuitable for adults."

A perfect example of the higher up in the government you go, the more likely you will find the place staffed by IDIOTS. Jane Roberts and Michael Atkinson need to learn that games are not exclusively made for children; they never have been. I like Nicholas Suzor; the only one who didn't seem to miss the point of the sequence.

Things like this is what pushes games past just being another shallow action game, and is what CoD4 and MW2 makes the games stand out among the crowd of other brownish-grey shooters. If games designers and writers don't do things like this, everything would be all the same with little to distinguish.

Of course, then comes along people who look for something to complain about just because they don't like it and can't handle the fact that a game might actually be trying to make a statement to the player while they are immersed in the game-world. Just like the whole Resident Evil 5 'racism' outcry. That game wouldn't have been nearly as disappointing if they just let Capcom make the game as originally intended and didn't make them tack on that retarded support character and all those utterly arbitrary 'need two people' sequences.

Although, I do find it incredibly satisfying that they can't change their original review of the game, so it can still be released as intended there right now. Here's hoping a third party doesn't step in.

Also, something I'd like to point out.
There are plenty of other totally brutal things in this and the previous Modern Warfare game, and NOW they complain about it when the game is trying to make a statement? Come on...

Won't somebody please think of the children!?

Because Game designers/Developers wish to promote terrorism.
Like many of the posts on this thread say, it's been done in movies, it can be done in games.

Looks like Osama bin laden will have something extra on his christmas list this year.

I have to say (and im sorry if i offend anyone) that when it comes to video games Australians are bloody idiots. If the game is full of violence it should be for adults only and available to buy. Just look at nation-wide television which is accessible to anyone including children, all the movies and shows are full of sex,violence and bad language. Its not that they "protect children" its that they pursue their own little goals and ideals and hate video games. I don't really care though since i'm not from Australia, they can do what they like, but its not a nice thing to do to our fellow Aussie gamers!

Coming soon, from Activision Blizzard:

Theme Auschwitz: A Baker's Dozen

Wow. To those of you who have railed that shooting up terrorists in an airport or ramming a plane into a civilian office building is 'no different' than dropping a bomb from a plane on a military target or engaging enemies who are shooting back... I hope you are all killed in a terrorist attack soon.

After WWII it became a bit of an unwritten rule of warfare not to attack population centers - it was common practice back then (firebombings by the British, V2 rockets by the Nazis, Atomic Bomb by the US) and the civilized nations of the world came to the conclusion that not attacking population centers - though demoralizing and effective in crippling enemy infrastructure - was a way to make the world a bit more humane.

War will always be with us, but so long as we are at least willing to make the attempt to limit the conflict to soldiers - we might not just completely destroy the world and it will make us just that much more civilized as a species.

Back on topic... I hope they don't give out an achievement for completing that part of the game particularly well. That's just asking for more trouble.

Also, I have to wonder what prevents me from just turning the gun on the other terrorists?

Is it just me, or is Australia all over gaming news lately?

If MW2 gets banned in Australia, we can expect homemade boats manned by starved, crazed, and desperate Australian gamers to wash up on our coasts.

BlazeTheVampire:
What I don't get is the "terrorism is abhorrent in our community" line. America got bombed by terrorists and we can still play the game. You mention terrorism in passing to that Council and they think it's a rampaging problem in their own country? If the people who were legitimately affected by extreme acts of terrorism can play the game, there's no reason the Australians can't.

Not saying there isn't terrorism there, I'm sure there is, it's just probably not equivalent to the Twin Towers. Or at least I hope I'd have heard about it if it was.

Alternatively, heaven forbid, we look at places like Ireland, United Kingdom, France, Spain and Israel where we've had terrorist attacks for decades before 9/11. Of course, with the exception of a few embassy bombings and sieges, it wasn't really till that fateful day that the US was shown to be just as vulnerable as everyone else when it comes to terrorism, which is why it strikes a chord now.

To be honest, we should actually be asking why this sort of thing hasn't been done already long before (with the exception of games like Syndicate, Mercenaries or Just Cause). There are two sides to every argument, and, while many people could point to the actions of some groups and individuals and call them wrong, there has to be a reason for them to do what they are doing, be it patriotism, belief or just because they are anarchists or radical eco-watchdogs. Knowing why your enemy is doing what they are doing is only part of it, actually getting to understand it through their eyes will add a whole different part to it.

I don't get why the Aussie are flipping out. Have Australia ever had a terrorist attack? :/

Major Tom:

kommunizt kat:
I DIDNT SAY IT WAS BANNED I was saying this to reassure that the game wouldnt be banned. Please, dont write a reply without really understanding it. Did I say that it was banned? I said it wouldnt... my exact words were " So I dont think it will get banned..."

Ah.....well, sorry about that. It's just that the automatic response I'm hearing from the majority here is 'lol, Aussie banned MW2!' and it annoys me no end, and I think I let my nerd rage get in the way of seeing what you said.

If a game actually gets refused classification, fine, rag on our outdated videogame classification laws. But the OFLC didn't do anything wrong or inconsistent this time around, I'm not standing for people ragging on us anyway.

I do that a lot too...

didn't fallout 3 have a torn up Washington monument

The worst part about this is, the SECOND some kid goes on some sort of shooting rampage no matter who it is, where it is, or for whatever reason, Heaven help Infinity Ward if a copy of this game shows up in that kid's bedroom.

There will be NO end to the assault on video games and their "effects on children and violence" after that, and we all know it.

Sometimes I kinda wish people DIDN'T push the envelope. Things are ridiculous as it is right now with Nanny-state politicians trying to "protect" us all from anything that could be potentially "inspire" us to commit random acts of violence.
I understand it has to be done, but man, I'm just sick of the Jack Thompsons of the world and this kind of thing only adds potentially unnecessary fuel to the fire.

further proof the australian government is so out of touch with reality that next they'll be talking about the rising nazi threat in germany.

You know..in the first L4D..you were gunning down "zombies" in the "airport" section of the Dead Air campaign..

Before those people were zombies,they were people..

This is infact one of the reason's why I love IW. They are willing to do things that other devs will not do

wooty:
Wow, so its real, nice, soooooooooo how many people will be skipping it then?
I wont, feeling rather pissed off of recent, might do me some good

for god sake people this is exactly the thing that will turn off all those 40 year old mothers who try to get this game banned from people who sit outside your local Game and tut at you to self rightgeous missionaries.

I would say that Activision are idiots for putting in such a clearly inflammatory reference to 9/11 when the rest of the worlds games, films, books and magazines have kept such a funeral home quiet, but i would be talking out my arse. For god's sake there has been a Nicholas Cage film about 9/11.

Oh, and Fallout 3, GTA 4, Mercenaries 2... etc etc et bloody cetra... to name just a few games sat on my shelf which have a destroyed American City or the wholesale slaughter of civilians in.

This is a storm in a tea cup and in the end if you really do believe the negative press rememeber a) you have the option to skip, b) there is supposedly a sound story telling reason for it, c) under 18s aren't encouraged to watch it, indeed in the UK it would be illegal d) responsibility lies with whoever buys it and e) this isn't going to stop Modern Warfare 2 outselling the bible.

TheRealCJ:

GonzoGamer:
I think the Australian government getting upset about a game that isn't intended for children shouldn't be considered news anymore.

Although if the South Australian Attorney General is that peeved about a video game, they must not have any real problems in South Australia. Maybe he should be more concerned about the industries that pollute to the extent that the country starts to look like Mars.

http://www.theredwhiteandgreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/3945890936_471c862b2f.jpg

The country has always looked like mars.

Always or since we started testing nuclear warheads there?

Do Aussie allow GTA? Because I think they do some stuff that's just a little bit evil.

The Australian Government needs to re-think their rating systems. They desperately need an 18+ rating so they game game like the rest of us!

I hope they will get to have this game; uncensored!

I'll be alright with that scene as long as the player character dies horribly (see burned alive or similar deaths)?

Edit: the terrosist player character, not the heroes.