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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2356 Joined: 5 May 2008     | |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 939 Joined: 25 Jul 2008    | All he says is true yet Valve are not the only company that does this. I mean Valve's most recent major hit, Orange Box, that was released on PS3 yet they took no effort with it, literally, EA just took the raw code and gave it to a third party to port = lower performance. But the problem is that SO MANY developers don't ever ACTUALLY develop on the PS3, but develop on PC/360 and then have a third party port to PS3 on the cheap, Bayonetta developers Platinum Studios are the most recent example with absolutely startling disparity in quality between 360 and PS3 versions. I also find it interesting that although Gabe Newall badmouthed the PS3 way back in 2006 he hasn't said much since and most of all he has said nothing in favour of its competitor 360 which his company is releasing games exclusive for. He may hate PS3 but he hasn't got much love for 360 either. The thing is that 360 gets nothing but the leftovers of the PC development of Valve games because: But it's clear Valve's 360 releases are for nothing but boosting the bottom line and speaking as a gamer, you'd be fool to not go for the PC versions of any of valve games, they run well on even low spec And it is a bit rich Pitchfork going on about Gabe when his own company with Borderlands is a huge example of PC Elitisim is you compare the quality of the PC version of Borderlands with PS3/360 version. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 1 Joined: 6 Nov 2009  | I actually don't get is what the beef with him and Valve is, seriously?! Mr. Randy i really like all your games from Opposing Force to Borderlands, for all those games you have used someone's else engine(that i know of ), you don't have to worry about compatibility issues for different consoles and where to allocate your resources which faces many dev who create there own engine from ground up. Now lets all hush up and watch this vid of our beloved Messiah(where he doesn't trash ps3 for once) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 440 Joined: 9 Feb 2009    | I thought Gabe made a good point in an interview a whle back. He said he doen't like the idea of PS3 players buying a sub-par Valve product. Who can blame him? It keeps his company's credibility intact and it doesn't mean PS3 owners fork out money for a game from a company that doesn't work well with the PS3 platform. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1853 Joined: 7 Jul 2008     |
Yeah but apparently because he didn't say "well we don't have the personnel or experience with the architecture to develop well on the PS3, much less develop on it at all" right off the bat this means Valve is automatically in the wrong...which is what I would think if my brain didn't work. It's really unsurprising to see how not even 1 page in this became a "Valve fan vs. PS3 fan)" argument which, while civil, is completely unecessary here. Certain people need to learn that some companies just aren't going to develop for certain platforms for whatever reason, and bitching about it only makes the complainer look bad. We get it, Sony fans, you're upset Gabe Newell wasn't nice to your Blu-Ray Miracle Machine, please stop trying to use that as a way to defend the words of a complete and utter jackass. Yes that's right, Pitchford is a jackass. He's running his mouth like an idiot again, after he already was shut down in his attempt to claim Steam was exploting the little guy when it wasn't. Why anybody is willing to listen to him now is a surprise, well actually it isn't, he's just playing to the crowd that he knows he can get riled up. |
Muckraker  Posts: 312 Joined: 23 Apr 2008    | Well, frankly, this guy has a point. I do not get it either. The orange box was released on the PS3 and it handled it very well from where I am standing. Valve has been using the same engine for its recent games and both the orange box and half life 2 fall into that category. If they honestly think that developing for the PS3 is a waste of time, hey, its their money, who am I to judge. But damn right impossible about shooters? I handled Bioshock quite well, I got a motherfuckin platinum trophy, so where's the problem with the controls? The PS3 can handle many games visually, the latest example being Uncharted 2. I wish Valve could come out and say: we do not support the PS3 anymore and there. End of story. Really. I am ok with that. Sure, I will be missing on great games like L4D but so what? Like there aren't gonna be good exclusives on the PS3 like Heavy Rain and The Last Guardian? Big deal. What I do not like is that they are not being honest. Confess. You do not wanna support that console. What is wrong about that? Finally, even though I am not on Valve's side when it comes to this since I own a PS3 and hate dishonesty, the gearbox guy sounded kinda funboyish. And for that, he is gonna get beaten up with an ignorance bat (insert L4D2 preorder joke). |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 513 Joined: 17 Jun 2008   | Its ironic that im a 360 fanboy ( i would try to deny it but who cares) but i hate valve games! |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 776 Joined: 9 Sep 2008    | How about calling them out on the 360? 'Don't worry guys, were still working on the update!' yeah sure, don't bullshit valve. |
Muckraker  Posts: 286 Joined: 11 Aug 2008    | I dont get this whole war between Gearbox and Valve, what i can say is it wouldve been great if Borderlands had Steam support for multiplayer instead of frigging Gamespy. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 862 Joined: 15 Dec 2008    | Gabe Newell is fast becoming the U.S.'s answer to Shigeru Miyamoto. I take nothing away from the value of the games Valve has put forth. But the more Gabe Newell collects millions of dollars, tons of industry influence and legions of rabid fanboys, the more he acts like a self-important douchebag. And I see now his nose-in-the-air attitude has spread to his staff as well. But as it shows in all walks of life, the bigger a jerk you are, the more people flock to you. It annoys when people line up to defend someone like Gabe Newell, acting like he's Jesus or something when all he created was a gaming engine. I don't thinks he's the first to do that. Truth is, he's really just a self-absorbed, cake fetishist with a crowbar jammed up his ass. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1917 Joined: 10 Mar 2009   |
your avatar along with this made me laugh... |
Muckraker  Posts: 313 Joined: 12 May 2009   | Sounds a bit like a PR stunt to me, but hey, even bad PR can be good PR. I wouldn't mind seeing devs feuding. A feud could bring some more inovation to the board. I really see no problem with Valve supporting Steam more, afterall, Steam is their baby. Taking care of their baby just make logical sense. You don't see Microsoft 1st party games on the PS3, so it's kind of awesome that you see Valve games on the Xbox as it is. Also, deving for the 360 (I would assume) is much more similar to deving on a PC than a PS3. So, I'd rather they keep on pumping out good DLC and good games on there than spending a great deal more time trying to hit all three platforms. I'd never see episode 3 then... But, you know what? Neither company has given any support to the Wii! Is that more blatant fanboyish on both their parts? Look, I really enjoy both companies (I know this post sounds kinda Valve fanboy-ish), and I hope to see many more great games to come, regardless of the platform. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1788 Joined: 29 May 2008    | To be honest, if you show any loyalty to either console you are verging on craziness. I've left PC out of this, i'll explain that in a bit. Sony - Evil Empire - Lets not quibble here, they have some dodgy as fuck practices and some flat out crazies designing the thing. Did anyone buy that excuse that it's deliberately designed to be difficult to use? Microsoft PC Division - Evil Empire - But i actually think they are the lesser of Evils. They can't lock down what you use. There is also a parity between the Console and PC via DirectX, meaning code on one should work on the other at very least in the graphics engine. MS have shrewedly meant that Developing for the PC means you shouldn't have a massive issue porting it to the console. PC Division is however less evil, since they don't control what you can run. If we ever get a day when OpenGL makes a massive fightback, which is long overdue in my opinion, there will be cross platform gaming on the PC, with Macs supported as well as Linux. The main issue is of course, that DX11 is going to be used alot. It's just too good to be overlooked this time. MS won't drop DX to use OpenGL as the renderer on their consoles. Game Developers would absolutely love to have everything on OpenGL i'd imagine, because if everything used it, and everything followed roughly the same architecture and not adding massive compexity for no reason, there could be similutaneous engine development across every console and PC combination. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 157 Joined: 20 Oct 2009    | fanboy v fanboy! honestly though valve games are really meant to be played on PC GET THE GAMES FOR PC PPL! most of their games scale down really well. ^_^ |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 980 Joined: 14 Mar 2009 | Thank you! Look, you can all whinge about it, but you guys have no idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of this bullshit.
Lies. Don't lie to me. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2496 Joined: 26 Oct 2008   |
Maybe he din´t work at Gearbox when they made Opposing Forces and Blue Shift. |
Muckraker Posts: 311 Joined: 21 Sep 2009   | Okay, what in the fuck is happening between Valve and Gearbox? Did Gabe Newell refuse to release Borderlands on Steam. |
Muckraker  Posts: 235 Joined: 6 Feb 2008   |
Except for the fact that they wanted to provide the updates to the 360 console for free but MS wouldn't let them because MS wanted to have their share of the patching and improvement costs that they force on all their Live! subscribers. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 2 Joined: 29 Oct 2009  | So Newell is a 360 Fanboy and Pitchford is a PS3 Fanboy. It's just that console war all over again, isn't it? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1939 Joined: 9 Apr 2008  |
What tizzy? I remember when that announcement was made about ff13 going multi. I don't know anyone who was upset about it. I didn't see any posts here or on any other game forum with people upset about it. In fact, I just noticed the FF fanboys who were happy that more gamers would be able to play it. You are right in that that Valve has the right to develop for whatever platform it wants to develop on. I think what RP is calling them out on is their lack of tact and professionalism on the matter. They could just say that they're staying with their preferred platforms but they always throw in needless jabs at the other platforms; which is fanboyish. And frankly at this point (when we're seeing everything that's being done with the ps3) their comments make them seem either lazy or incompetent. At this point, if they don't know what to do with the ps3, they should really just keep their mouths shut. |
Muckraker  Posts: 336 Joined: 30 Aug 2008  | Valve has a right to do what it wants, and Pitchford has the right to make a critical comment. Personally, I'm not a fan of Valve. I think they are a bit full of themselves and a bit over hyped. Freakin' BioWare can release 2 massive RPG titles within a few months (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) Valve can't finish Half Life 2 Ep 3. I know they were working on Left for Dead 2 (which could have been 4 great DLC packs for L4D 1), but Christ, its been almost 4 years! Halo 3 was released the month before and Bungie had ODST ready and part of Reach done! Epic had Gears 2 done just TWO YEARS after Gears 1. And Valve can't finish 1/3 of a game in 4? Anyway, enough ranting. Pitchford does have a point about Valve's attitude. When the PS3 really takes off, Valve will lose a good amount of money. As far a Steam goes, I like the service, but can see why a competitor would feel troubled about putting their product in Valve's hands for distribution... it would be like giving all the cupcakes to a fat kid and telling him to pass them out to the rest of the class... |
Beat Writer  Posts: 141 Joined: 27 Oct 2009  | [quote= That's excactly one of the reasons stated by VALVe why they don't wanna develop for the PS3. They are already having enough trouble developing for two systems and trying to meet quality assurance. And the 360 is supposedly easy to program for, compared the PS3 which they had to reach a third party to port for them. To add a third system into the mix would be chaos. I would rather have a great game for one platform than to have a mediocre game on all three.[/quote] That's exactly right, but Valve should still try, especially with its big name titles. |
On the Record  Posts: 5931 Joined: 7 Mar 2008    |
he does have a very good point, considering the facts Gabe Newell - ex m$ employee before he formed valve to make the quake2 engine, which gave us Half-Life Valve on windows coding - it's awesome and great notice the trend here? every system that isn't a m$ platform they find too hard to develop for and just can't "financially" do it so really Randy does have a good point that they're being a pack of fanboys. it's also funny how so many people have their blinders on because it's valve and think they are super awesome, even tho they make rather average games. if people actually opened their eyes and see what they are doing and saying maybe they wouldn't be held in such high regard and maybe they would actually expand their horizons a bit |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3310 Joined: 10 Oct 2008 |
See? I am not the only one that thinks Valve are just being asshats. They are just being lazy. Screw Valve. I will spend no more of my money on them at all, ever. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 72 Joined: 31 Dec 2008  | Or Valve could make PC exclusives like they used to and Consoles get nothing. They port to Xbox 360 because it is easy to go from their primary platform to the 360. In a perfect world, Valve would develop for PS3, and Borderlands would make good PC games. If only... |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 16 May 2008 |
There is a Linux dedicated server, and very few developers support linux and osx on the PC side, so Valve isn't doing anything special there. It seems as if everyone regurgitating Randy's bull without doing some reading on what Gabe, Doug, and others developers who actually worked on the PS3 said. The IBM Cell is a very flawed cpu architecture. There is currently nothing special that games do on the PS3 that can't be done on the xbox with a fraction of the development labor and costs. From what I hear from about sony's SDK, it seems to be purposely obtuse to make porting to other platforms as difficult as possible. If anyone is being isolationist, it is Sony, not Valve. Remember, this is from an interview from the UK PlayStation magazine. Who knows how much bribe money Sony paid Randy. |
On the Record Posts: 5931 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
actually the DID say that about creating a linux client for their games and they keep citing issues with Apple as to why they "can't" make an osx port of their game, so yes in both cases they've said "it's too hard" as for not as many developers for linux, well you do realize by the amount of active project alone linux has more people developing for it than windows. sure not all of them are giant corporations but the only real thing they are lacking is some games but id and epic software seem to be doing a fine job with making linux ports of their games the issue that's going on is that valve always has some sort of excuse as to why they can't make a program for another operating system or platform that happens to compete with the rivals of their founders ex-employer oh and btw for cpu architecture, the 360 is also run off of IBM hardware, it uses the IBM PPC chip |
Muckraker  Posts: 281 Joined: 6 Mar 2009 | seeing as ps3s are beginning to sell by the bucketload now, i'm guessing it wont be too long before valve are forced to start developing for ps3. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 84 Joined: 4 Nov 2009  | Although the PS3 is not a waist of time, they want to keep their staff as small as possible during these times of not a lot of money. Maybe, when gas isn't so high, than we might see some games for the PS3, but there is nothing wrong with them making games for PC and 360 exclusively. The fan-boy of between these two seems deeper than just not going for the "right" platform. Maybe gear box thinks "We made some games and one mod, now we branch out on our and hate the person we made the mod for, ho and we then make a good game and put it on the GIANT company that we should have staid friends withs new free to download marketplace, at a discount from stores." So now VALVe thinks, "Now, make fun of his favorite console and double it up with a joke about his mom." |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 26 Sep 2008   |
This exactly. As I was reading the article, I couldn't help but think to myself, "Shouldn't he be waist-deep in Borderlands code fixing the multiplayer?" I also can't help but notice the irony in him calling-out Valve for looking fanboyish, and at the same time looking like a fanboy himself. |
Paperboy  Posts: 21 Joined: 4 Mar 2009  | Dear Gearbox, Borderlands is great. Multiplayer support for Borderlands on the PC blows sweaty goats. Love, Neuro |
Beat Writer  Posts: 145 Joined: 11 Oct 2009 | Let the companies bitch :I |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 16 May 2008 |
The xbox 360 has three complete monolithic PPC cores. The single PPC core in the CELL processor spends a good deal of its processing power baby-sitting a bunch of crippled stream processing units. They do not have identical processor configurations. You can use similar arguments to declare other developers of being in bed with microsoft. Gabe Newell didn't like Vista and regularly complains about delivering content to the Xbox 360. He even showed interest in producing content for the Wii. Your wild conspiracy theory is just that: a wild conspiracy theory. I was talking about Game developers, not developers in general. I was most definitely not talking about the crowd-sourced hardware-vendor-funded mess that is GNU. Valve is relatively small development studio; and they like to keep it that way. The don't have the resources that can be dedicated to the PS3. Edit: [sarcasm] they like to keep their development studio small because they are greedy; har har har [/sarcasm] |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 10 Aug 2009 | Haha...Jaguar... |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 764 Joined: 20 May 2009 | It can't be that hard to develop for the PS3. Maybe Valve are just lazy. Naughty Dog took the time to learn the ins and outs of the PS3 and they didn't seem to have a problem, and neither did Guerilla Games. Maybe it's because Gabe realized that if they were to bring in a PS3 team, then the lunch queue would be longer? |
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Erm ?????
Valve should spend more time developing stuff for other developers ? Shit should Sony get a cut of the original Half Life as well because ... well ... just because Randy says so.
Hes definitely channeling his inner fanboi. Heres an idea if Sony are so pissed PAY VALVE MONEY to develop for their overly intrusive obtuse operating system so that normal games can get on the PS3. In fact even better design an OS/system that programmers like.