John Carmack Says No Dedicated Servers for Rage

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John Carmack Says No Dedicated Servers for Rage

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More bad news, PC gamers: John Carmack, the Big Brain at id, says the upcoming shooter Rage probably won't offer support for dedicated servers.

When Infinity Ward announced last month that dedicated servers wouldn't be supported in Modern Warfare 2, PC gamers went nuts. Forums exploded with anger and an internet petition against the move is currently sitting at nearly 185,000 signatures. Despite the best efforts of Infinity Ward, it was widely seen as yet another example of the "dumbing down" of videogaming in favor of people who get confused when they're confronted with more buttons than they have fingers on one hand.

But now it sounds like Infinity Ward won't be alone in forsaking the mouse-and-keyboard set: No less a luminary than John Carmack himself said recently that id would probably follow the same path with Rage, its newest project. "It's not cast in stone yet, but at this point no, we don't think we will have dedicated servers," he told Variety.

He also sounded thankful that Infinity Ward is blazing this particular trail, so he won't have to. "The great thing is we won't have to be a pioneer on that," he continued, apparently mindful of the fact that the decision won't be a popular one. "We'll see how it works out for everyone else."

This one stings a bit. Infinity Ward did a great job with Modern Warfare but Carmack is - or was - "one of us." Is it possible that he's right - that dedicated servers are a "remnant" of days gone by and have no place in contemporary gaming? John Carmack is a groundbreaking genius and I'm really not looking to start an argument with the man but simplicity aside, I honestly don't see the benefit of dropping dedicated server support. How does it make the experience better for anyone?

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OWCH! That really sucks for you PC users.

I doubt RAGE will get as much rage as MW2

Oh snap!

John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

The beginning of the end.... IW really is setting a new standard, that is essentially screwing over the same people that made them what they are today. Good job, IW, alienating us PC gamers and standardizing the console experience on PC.

Sucks to be a PC

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Could it be a sign to PC gamers to accept change for the good and bad?

May I utter ths words with anguish: SHUUUUUUUN HIM!!!

Frank_Sinatra_:

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Could it be a sign to PC gamers to accept change for the good and bad?

No. I don't even know who he is.

John Carmak hasn't REALLY been relevant since the early 90's. He really reminds me of the kid from Grandma's Boy. What was the famous quote from him? Something to the effect of "Plot in videogames is like plot in porn; its expected but not important."

I'm a PC Gamer and I really don't care, if things change, things change.

uppitycracker:
The beginning of the end.... IW really is setting a new standard, that is essentially screwing over the same people that made them what they are today. Good job, IW, alienating us PC gamers and standardizing the console experience on PC.

I don't think you can blame IW for this. This is the sort of decision you don't make in the span of a month, and from what Carmack said it sounded like they'd been planning on it for a while. This was probably the direction Carmack & Co. decided on themselves. As much as people like to pin the blame on IW (and by extension Activision, since it is obviously The Great Satan and behind everything evil ever), their only sin in this case was probably announcing it first.

Frank_Sinatra_:

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Could it be a sign to PC gamers to accept change for the good and bad?

Probably. I doubt they'll change their minds any time soon.

Can you really 'Pioneer' de-evolution. It just sounds like a stupid concept.
"We were the first to run in the wrong direction."
Stop growing fur and give me innovation. It sure as hell beats this simplification BS.

Am I seeing the Domino effect for PC gaming?

I'm not quite sure what this means. Does it mean that there are no dedicated server run by the company or that no one can set up a dedicated server?

Sounds like they're trying to make PC gaming more "mainstream" and more accessible. Honestly I've hated "matchmaking" ever since Halo 2. I was so psyched to finally be able to go online and set up whatever crazy match types I wanted and have people join in on a real central service like XBL and not whacky setup like Gamespy, only to find myself forced into what THEY wanted me to play. I know you could set up private matches, but I didn't feel like having to friend a bunch of people and hope they were up for wacky gaming when I was..

Disappointing. I would've expected better from someone like Carmack.

Well it certainly does suck to be a hardcore PC gamer right now doesn't it? It's a shame really that this is happening, without Mods and stuff PC gaming would become like console online gaming. Fun for a while, that is until the next game comes out. Mods give life into games and can keep them going for years. But alas, no more.

Well, seeing as we don't know exactly what Carmack is going to do he gets the benefit of doubt for now.

Until he starts systematically swatting down any hope of his game's multiplayer being any good at least.

Thought: what's the logical extreme of this kind of progression towards consol-ising Pc games? Does it grind to a halt when if MW2 PC bombs or does it reach a ridiculous point where major a games are simply never released to the PC, with PC gaming made up entirely of pirated console ports modded to deliver a proper multiplayer experience.

It's extreme and unlikely, but it would be interesting to know if any publishers like the idea of abandoning PC sales altogether and just leaving it to the pirates.

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Which simply suggests that there's no need for the whole fuss and the uproar that Infinity Ward had when they made the MW2 announcement. I'm a PC and console gamer, and I honestly can't see why there's so much of a problem with getting rid of dedicated servers. If the company can handle it well enough, as they do for consoles, then the P2P system should be enough to cope alright. And Infinity Ward have now, effectively, been shown to not simply be screwing PC gamers over, but rather, they were simply the first to announce plans that in fact other companies are adopting. I predict this won't be the last announcement we hear in the coming weeks, in fact I'd go so far as to say that I fully expect other developers to follow suit pretty soon...

I have a feeling of foreboding about my platform...

I feel like the corporal shepherd of the gaming world, and my superior officers of interactive media are withdrawing my evac and fire support...

Malygris:
John Carmack Says No Dedicated Servers for Rage

image

More bad news, PC gamers: John Carmack, the Big Brain at id, says the upcoming shooter Rage probably won't offer support for dedicated servers.

Despite the best efforts of Infinity Ward, it was widely seen as yet another example of the "dumbing down" of videogaming in favor of people who get confused when they're confronted with more buttons than they have fingers on one hand.

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I love that quote.

he did say he will see how this will pan out, The Carmack is a smart guy and i'm sure if it's a big failure for MW2 then they'll make a dedicated server

I would like to thank game pirates for this. Everyone here who has ever pirated a game, this is because of you.

How the heck is this game supposed to even work if you don't have dedicated servers to manage everything? Aren't the environments supposed to be incredibly large etc?

oppp7:
I would like to thank game pirates for this. Everyone here who has ever pirated a game, this is because of you.

So the piracy has nothing to do with the fact that there is no such thing as rental for PC games? It has nothing to do with what amounts to rebellion against games that end up sucking and cannot be resold? The piracy has a great deal to do with the all or nothing nature of the market, and stuff like this which alienates the base is not going to encourage people to buy the games at all.

oppp7:
I would like to thank game pirates for this. Everyone here who has ever pirated a game, this is because of you.

And it's the pirates that will save you from it...

I'm actually relatively ok with the lack of a server. AS LONG AS: they come up with a solution that offers the same features that servers did, especially the kicking ability and the low ping rates.

I bitch about MW2 for everything else they removed, not so much for the server thing.

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

I had to re-read this article several times.

Carmack was the last person I would expect to say this.

but lets look at it from another angle, few weeks ago Carmack announces RAGE wont have dedicated servers, and today IW come out and say they too will drop Dedicated Servers.

would there still be as much controversy flying around? or would IW be labeled as "following the leader"?

oppp7:
I would like to thank game pirates for this. Everyone here who has ever pirated a game, this is because of you.

Pull your head out of your ass, piracy has nothing to do with dedicated servers. Eliminating dedicated servers does absolutely nothing to prevent piracy.

I play a very small handful of mods, and usually they are SP, but I can certainly understand why the mod community in particular would be upset about this. I always enjoyed creating my own server while playing some of the classics. Anybody ever play the dueling servers in Jedi Academy?

MasterSqueak:

Frank_Sinatra_:

CantFaketheFunk:
John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Could it be a sign to PC gamers to accept change for the good and bad?

No. I don't even know who he is.

Ever heard of Doom, Quake or Wolfenstein (they're little indie projects, so I wouldn't be surprised if you hadn't...)? All him. There's practically noone that knows the PC FPS market better. If he was planning to get rid of dedicated servers, there's a very good chance that he genuinely believes it'll be better for PC gaming. You can say what you like about that, but this man is an expert in PC gaming in a way none of us will ever be.

In other news... Damn Rage looks good. It's definitely on my "Buy Firsthand" list right now. I wanna get a Jonny Rotten style anarchist going! :D

Carmack admits hes glad someone else is attempting it first, meaning hes aware its a rubbish move and not exactly popular ... so whys he evening considering it? I really would love to be a fly on the wall in the board room meetings where they keep deciding that dropping dedicated servers would be a great idea, just to understand their logic-train.

What did Carmack do that was really, and I mean REALLY good in the past 7 years or so? And I mean, really, worthy of mentioning.

Wolfenstein from 2009 was at best a decent game. Quake Wars was good, but I doubt he had much to do with it.

I almost RAGEd, but luckily I wouldn't buy this game anyway.

I can already see console peasants yelling "Where is your Gabe now?". Ultimately we will prevail in this crusade, as Gabe is with us.

As a console only player, I don't get what all the fuss is about. Whats so special about the dedicated servers anyway? what do they do differently to console online? why are companies dropping it in favour of other methods, and how are those other methods meant to be better?

So many questions!

Pingieking:
I'm actually relatively ok with the lack of a server. AS LONG AS: they come up with a solution that offers the same features that servers did, especially the kicking ability and the low ping rates.

So you're okay with the removal of dedicated server support, as long as all the functionality of dedicated server support remains?

I suppose I can't disagree with that, but it's a bit of a reinvention of the wheel, is it not?

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