CantFaketheFunk:
Snip

Well since you moved this into a debate about PC decline in the gaming market (Ok well I did it, lol)

I think there is a level of inteligence that goes along with a PC user about understanding technology. I think that a Console user has no idea how his/her console works or what to do to fix it. This is my opinion why PCs will never die and why companies like Valve and CA will focus on. You will always be able to do more on a PC, like write articles for a Emag, so everyone has one in the house. The same is definetly not true for Consoles.

To say that piracy doesnt exist on consoles is obviously wrong, and I know Funk did not say this, but to point the blame directly at the pirate for which ever platform they use is just naive at best.

I would like to see the sales numbers on DA:O for the PC and compare it to the number of copies pirated. I bet the number is far less than for a game like MW2 (which to put bluntly slapped PC gamers in the face). I may be right or wrong, and happy to admit it if the latter is correct but I stand by my theory.

A well produced game that is geared to the community that supports it will never have to worry about pirates, console or PC.

Pirates who make money from Pirating are bad. People downloading a game instead of paing for it because they dont like the way a company is heading is just poor decision making at worst.

Well that sucks. Sorry but with the way IW are fucking over the customers, deliberately putting out a shit product and raising prices just to see if people will pay it. I have to say that I highly support these guys fucking over activision.
I hope this game gets pirated more than Spore just to teach the bastards a lesson.
But really, who gives out their address for shit like this? As much as I support him, he still is one dumb little bastard.

Well played, Activision.

Justice 1
Crime 0

Cyber P.I.s? Awesomeness. But seriously this was a good read. My question is how did they get copies of the most pre-ordered game of possibly ever before it came out?

Why would you advertise that on Craigslist?

The first thing that came to my mind was what a bunch of idiots those pirates were. Might as well've had a neon sign above their heads with "Software Pirate" in big, coloured letters and an arrow pointing to their pea brain.

CmRet:
Justice 1
Crime 0

Cyber P.I.s? Awesomeness. But seriously this was a good read. My question is how did they get copies of the most pre-ordered game of possibly ever before it came out?

simple:

Greg Tito:

The initial seller was found to be a kid who worked in the warehouse of a major retailer and somehow squirreled away a crate of the MW2 bundles without his supervisor catching wind of the theft. When IPCybercrime called posing as buyers, the perp quickly gave out an address and was seized without incident. I can only assume that he was a minor because his name wasn't leaked and he was transferred to the loss prevention divsion of the retailer instead of being arrested outright.

I used to do seasonal in retail, as it is extremely easy to sneak items out without anyone noticing, except for me of course, loss prevention pays extremely well.

put it in perspective, in 2007 I did seasonal at an electronics store in a strip mall, all the stores shared a crusher [used to crush boxes and assorted fruit when employees were bored]. one night I noticed an employee spending too much time around it, naturally I went over to tell him to get back to work [if he got caught I would get in trouble too, one reason I dont do seasonal anymore.] guess what was in the crusher.

seven 42" flat screens.

He had put them in loads to be crushed later and was waiting for his friends to pick them up.

also, my cousin had stolen right around two years worth of WoW game time cards from wally-world last Christmas, the ones in the boxes that dont need cashier activation. he of course quit when he got his hours dropped to just around 15 a week. the never caught him.

Haha, that guy is quite dim to do something like that.
Though really Activision/IW lost me as a loyal paying customer as soon as they announced the removal of dedicated servers *wink wink* lol.

Can someone please tell me how you make off with a crate of videogames without getting caught or seen by anyone what so ever? Talk about the lack of security...or the fact that nobody gives a damn at that job.

I hope this game gets pirated more than Spore just to teach the bastards a lesson.

Exactly what lesson is that? That the game will be awesome even when pirated?

MaxTheReaper:

Enzeru92:
Yay a win for the good guys

Well, a win for the companies, anyway.

You see, there really is no such thing as...[long, long, long post that nobody will ever read, ever.]

Exactly. Besides, writing long winded, convoluted, overly verbose (yet well written) posts nobody's gonna read is my job ayway...

But seeing as how I think I know where you were going with this allow me to elabor-

Radeonx:

Yog Sothoth:
See kids, crime doesn't pay...

Poorly designed crime doesn't pay.

MaxTheReaper:

Enzeru92:
Yay a win for the good guys

Well, a win for the companies, anyway.

You see, there really is no such thing as...[long, long, long post that nobody will ever read, ever.]

This is essentially my thoughts, though. Almost everything is pretty much in a gray area, nowadays.

The real money is made in microtransactions..bleed them to death slowly..

Skizle:
Can someone please tell me how you make off with a crate of videogames without getting caught or seen by anyone what so ever? Talk about the lack of security...or the fact that nobody gives a damn at that job.

I think I can answer that.

Coming from a Loss Prevention/Fraud Investigation background, this story cracks me up. It almost makes me want to go back to being a P.I., almost. I have to admit though, it was a pretty slick investigation, if not made easier by the raw stupidity of certain individuals in getting themselves caught so quickly.

A few years ago I did some undercover work posing as a staff member in a certain retail chain to investigate possible internal theft, and after 3 months of digging I arrested 13 out of 17 employees at the store, including all of the management. Name a scam and they were pulling it. Every type of retail theft and vendor fraud these idiots could think of (or get off the net) they were pulling, to the tune of about $10,000 a month give or take. This went on for quite a long time before the agency I was working for got involved.

I'm fairly confident that eventually it will come to light that there was more to the original theft than some kid ripping off a crate of Xboxes. This was a relatively organized (but sloppy) operation, and I can all but guarantee that there are more players involved.

I would look at management, internal LP, everybody. Why? Because one of the last people I arrested at that job was one of my co-workers who I caught stealing from a client. Which proves you can't even fully trust the people you hire to protect your business.

You might have a point though, maybe it is something just as simple as good old fashioned stupidity and/or apathy. You have to think though, after the release date it wouldn't take a loss prevention specialist to notice an entire crate of Xboxes had just disappeared, sooner or later the kid would have been caught, but like the article said, the damage had already been done.

People stealing boxes of consoles from stores =/= pirates. Besides that, i fully support whatever action is done to take down those assholes at infinityward.

Internet Kraken:

Amnestic:

CloggedDonkey:
Since this ended up in Miami I'll say this now: "Don't you know? video games," *puts on shades* "are dangerous." YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Quick and dirty. Not the best one I ever did, but it's all I can come up with at half past midnight :P

Um, why is he holding shades in his hands if he is already wearing a pair of shades?

On topic: Good, I always like it when pirates get what they deserve. It's a win for everyone but the pirates.

The guy uploaded the iso of the game online.
Now Tens of thousands have downloaded it.
Sounds like a win for the pirates.

This kids probably going to get sued by Activision for there loss from the torrents. And from the way it sounds he's not the kinda guy who can spare a few million, so he's going to be in debt for the rest of his life. Almost makes me feel sorry for him. Almost.

think that makes me laugh is this wouldnt have even made a dent in the 10 bazzillion sales MW2 is gonna get...

and activsion can pay for this kinda thing and not have to worry about it too...wish i had there amount of money :(

CantFaketheFunk:
*Snip*

Frankly, I don't think publishers are overreacting at all. That's not to say I think they're reacting correctly in most cases - the Eidos Arkham Asylum case being an example of how to do it right - but I think that piracy is a legitimate problem and it's also one of the reasons (though by no means the only one) that the PC market is much less relevant these days as it used to be.

To you maybe, the PC still constitute half the market and eclipsing consoles entirely.

Mrsnugglesworth:
"I r post game illegally on MOTHER FUCKING CRAIGSLIST WHICH EVERYONE CAN SEE AND CAN TRACK YOU"

Yes, if you're going to pirate, thepiratebay would be an anonymous alternative. Piracy isn't as bad if the people aren't making any money off it, but when you try to make money off it it just goes beyond the legal gray area and into actual stealing.

CantFaketheFunk:

If I may suggest an alternate hypothesis:

The 360 one is flooding torrent sites because ... the PC one hasn't been leaked yet.

That is unfortunately inevitable, and once it happens, I don't doubt that it'll be as prevalent on piracy sites as the 360 version is. Yes, pirating on PC does require some effort, but pirating on a console requires considerably more. Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that there's a much larger audience for the 360 version (or even the PS3 version) than there was the PC version, even before the reveal of no dedicated servers. This was true with the first Modern Warfare, too.

Let's say that out of fifty Xbox 360 owners playing MW2, ten pirated it. There are only ten people playing MW2 on the PC, though, five of whom pirated it. Even if there are technically MORE pirated 360 copies being played, it says nothing about the system's security (or lack thereof).

COD4 didn't sell as well as it did thanks to the PC owners, I can tell you that. Oh sure, a ton of PC owners bought the game, but it sold significantly better on consoles. Just keep that in mind.

Frankly, I don't think publishers are overreacting at all. That's not to say I think they're reacting correctly in most cases - the Eidos Arkham Asylum case being an example of how to do it right - but I think that piracy is a legitimate problem and it's also one of the reasons (though by no means the only one) that the PC market is much less relevant these days as it used to be.

Where are you getting your figures?

Global PC sales for a specific game, that's legitimate sales, are extremely hard to measure and normally only PS3 and 360 sales are factored into NDP calculations etc due to the nature of consoles and how Micro/Sony make most of their money of licensing copies of games.

And then how do you calculate piracy figures? I mean if the game is pirated in a country where the game is banned or not even sold... is that a "lost sale"? How many are actually played and how many are just casual downloads by idiots who try to play COD4 on a crappy pentium 1 PC with graphics card from the late 90's = fail attempt = they are not Successfully pirating the game.

Are they going by online multiplayer figures? Beyond the fact that is mis-representative (pirates may like online gaming more) I'd like to know the specifics to determine there are not artefact in their results like counting legitimate customers who merely disable securom because they are fed up of being locked out of their own game for dumb reasons.

Though you seem ready to admit that 360 is not on a level playing field with PC for risk of piracy which has been my point all along.

I certainly hope you will agree that DRM like securom utterly fails as an anti-piracy measure and there is zero problem with selling a product DRM-free. I mean look at the MP3's sold by Amazon, totally DRM free, yet they still sell a bucket load.

That lovely statistic of "PC only 14% of game-sales/market" is incredibly misleading because:
-It compares not unit sales but total earnings in $
-it factors in ALL consoles from PS2, Wii, as well as 360 and PS3, so it's at least 4 vs 1 = 20% all things equal.
-It also factors sale of hardware and peripherals of consoles... yet because graphics cards could be for non-gaming purposes they are not factored which is a VAST amount of money not considered.
-PC games around the world are legitimately sold at retail for a lower price than console (no licence fee) so could sell equal numbers of games, the same amount of money to the developer yet less money earned "on paper". Then there are the non-retail online sales, much more popular with PC gamers where they are practically bought wholesale = even lower price.
-Does it factor in online sales like via Steam, Good-old-games and Direct2Drive? I don't think so.
-Consoles have ALWAYS been more of a "populous" activity, that's the POINT! Since the days of the NES, just plug in and play, that is inevitably a much larger percentage of the crowd

Michael Bay sells more movie tickets than Michael Mann, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM "BETTER"!!!

This reminds me of a similar thing which happened to the UK music industry in the early 2000's as a very popular BBC music show called Top of the Pops were legally mandated by their quasi-socialistic charter to play what was on the top 20 based on CD sales alone, regardless of any taste or even logic.

But it's wasn't stuff like Kasabian or Beyoncee, none of the stuff anyone request or expects to hear on the radio, instead the chart was inundated with with soft and weepy ballads that honestly only menopausal women nostalgic of 70's smaltz would possibly like.

That was because the charts only counted CD sales and CD sales had been falling with young people in favour of itunes and the place where CDs were rising where in supermarkets targeting middle age mothers or grandmothers with special deals and advertising were making amazing sales. The market had changed, the chart was no longer reflecting actual tastes of the general music consuming public... but tell that to a thick headed BBC chief.

This irrevocably damaged Top of the Pops and did not change till EVENTUALLY they fessed up and factored in legitimate download sales (kinda hard as it was not obvious if a song bought off iTunes was actually bought in the UK) then it was like a revolution, Top of the Pops was no longer inundated with shit weepy ballads but the ACTUAL music people were listening to.

But the damage was done and for the show blindly following statistics with no insight the show had plummeted in ratings and fell so far from grace, being already moved to the "death slot" of late on Sunday night, so that it could not recover. It was cancelled in 2006 after running continuously for 42 years, ever since The Beatles were topping the charts.

... all because they were mislead by The Charts.

I mean this site wouldn't dedicated 50% of it's articles/reviews to Wii just because it sells more? In fact it should have dedicated 50% to PS2, 30% to Wii and just a footnote to 360/PS3.

Asehujiko:
People stealing boxes of consoles from stores =/= pirates. Besides that, i fully support whatever action is done to take down those assholes at infinityward.

Yeah, stealing boxes = theft and it's pretty worse.
And yeah sure, let's take down those assholes programmers and artists working 60 hours/week. They don't deserve to get paid....... :\
Games are made by people with faces, don't forget that.

ShadowKirby:

Asehujiko:
People stealing boxes of consoles from stores =/= pirates. Besides that, i fully support whatever action is done to take down those assholes at infinityward.

Yeah, stealing boxes = theft and it's pretty worse.
And yeah sure, let's take down those assholes programmers and artists working 60 hours/week. They don't deserve to get paid....... :\
Games are made by people with faces, don't forget that.

And there I was thinking they were made by people without faces.

Well now I know!

Based on what IW have done to the PC version of this game, i'm not so sure they don't deserve it! http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25691

EDIT: As a student training to be a games programmer, i meant this tongue-in-cheek.

Wow; so there is this a level of stupid that involves Craiglist and pirates! Who knew? :)

That is awesome, I didn't even know we had internet detectives. Those pirates deserve to rot anyway, downloading the game is one thing, but selling it? That's low.

I love justice... don't you?

i couldnt really care if it got sold illegally or not, since IW has cockslapped 1 of the best shooters ever into what sounds like a little wimp.

Enzeru92:
Yay a win for the good guys

MaxTheReaper:

Well, a win for the companies, anyway.

You see, there really is no such thing as...[long, long, long post that nobody will ever read, ever.]

Yay, a win for Activison....no, wait...

Anywho, good news I suppose - not that pirates == lost customers, but its a long argument I won't get into. Also... [long post about how Activison have screwed the honest PC customer over, that no-one will take notice of - grumble-grumble]

ShadowKirby:

Asehujiko:
People stealing boxes of consoles from stores =/= pirates. Besides that, i fully support whatever action is done to take down those assholes at infinityward.

Yeah, stealing boxes = theft and it's pretty worse.
And yeah sure, let's take down those assholes programmers and artists working 60 hours/week. They don't deserve to get paid....... :\
Games are made by people with faces, don't forget that.

Still, people with faces i would like to kick the teeth in after all their insults.

wouldyoukindly99:
Internet vigilantes, cool. Even though I don't like CoD it's good to see pirates get screwed over.

Yeh I always thought there was not much vigilance but this proves me wrong.
Glad to see there is some kind of enforcement on those damn pirates.

(Ninjas > Pirates) :P

Furburt:

Mrsnugglesworth:
"I r post game illegally on MOTHER FUCKING CRAIGSLIST WHICH EVERYONE CAN SEE AND CAN TRACK YOU"

Yes, if you're going to pirate, thepiratebay would be an anonymous alternative. Piracy isn't as bad if the people aren't making any money off it, but when you try to make money off it it just goes beyond the legal gray area and into actual stealing.

There is no legal gray area here, I have no idea where you got that from but its bullshit. Regardless of whether or not you're pirating software, etc. for financial gain, if you didn't pay for it its theft, period. End of discussion. The fact that someone isn't making money off of piracy doesn't make it "not as bad". I'm still trying to comprehend why you would even say such a thing...

If you want to argue with me, look at my last post and what I used to do for a living.

Undercover:

Furburt:

Mrsnugglesworth:
"I r post game illegally on MOTHER FUCKING CRAIGSLIST WHICH EVERYONE CAN SEE AND CAN TRACK YOU"

Yes, if you're going to pirate, thepiratebay would be an anonymous alternative. Piracy isn't as bad if the people aren't making any money off it, but when you try to make money off it it just goes beyond the legal gray area and into actual stealing.

There is no legal gray area here, I have no idea where you got that from but its bullshit. Regardless of whether or not you're pirating software, etc. for financial gain, if you didn't pay for it its theft, period. End of discussion. The fact that someone isn't making money off of piracy doesn't make it "not as bad". I'm still trying to comprehend why you would even say such a thing...

If you want to argue with me, look at my last post and what I used to do for a living.

I should have said, in Ireland it's a legal gray area. Over in where you live I'm sure it's more defined.

Bretty:

CantFaketheFunk:
Snip

Well since you moved this into a debate about PC decline in the gaming market (Ok well I did it, lol)

I think there is a level of inteligence that goes along with a PC user about understanding technology. I think that a Console user has no idea how his/her console works or what to do to fix it. This is my opinion why PCs will never die and why companies like Valve and CA will focus on. You will always be able to do more on a PC, like write articles for a Emag, so everyone has one in the house. The same is definetly not true for Consoles.

To say that piracy doesnt exist on consoles is obviously wrong, and I know Funk did not say this, but to point the blame directly at the pirate for which ever platform they use is just naive at best.

I would like to see the sales numbers on DA:O for the PC and compare it to the number of copies pirated. I bet the number is far less than for a game like MW2 (which to put bluntly slapped PC gamers in the face). I may be right or wrong, and happy to admit it if the latter is correct but I stand by my theory.

A well produced game that is geared to the community that supports it will never have to worry about pirates, console or PC.

Pirates who make money from Pirating are bad. People downloading a game instead of paing for it because they dont like the way a company is heading is just poor decision making at worst.

Agreed. If consoles do become the more relevant gaming platform, then pirates are only going to shift their strategy to pirating console games, and hackers will be coming up with new ways to mod the systems. Pointing out that PC is becoming more irrelevant (it isn't) doesn't make the pirates all the more likely to just fade away. If the Mac actually started reigning over the PC (it won't) then you can bet your bippy that viruses and malware coded for Macs will become all the more numerous. Pirates and hackers target what is the more popular, because that will be what is easiest to get to.

WlknCntrdiction:
Haha, that guy is quite dim to do something like that.
Though really Activision/IW lost me as a loyal paying customer as soon as they announced the removal of dedicated servers *wink wink* lol.

So you are going to pirate a game that is crippled regardless of how you get it? Gonna make your own dedicated servers for it and share them? Good luck with that.
In the end though, this article pretty much pointed out where these crooks went wrong, and you can expect that they aren't looking at long jail sentences unless the kid snagging the games gets charged with theft. That's the only legit charge to be seen here. The hacker can get sued by Microsoft and Activision, but anything the courts can throw at him will hardly be a nickle. Most of what was done by these two was civil crimes, and most likely any lawsuit wont stand a chance of bringing in a smidgeon of what Activision will claim to have lost.(Which will be overinflated).

Malicious:
Unfortunately pirates are impossible to stop since there's thousands all around the world. I'm sure it ain't hard for people to acquire illegal goods if they look in the right place. The only way to stop this is if the developers themselves use some cash to actually protect their product, as we all know they got the cash to, so im not really sympathetic towards Activision.

That's just it, they are protecting their product, that's why we have things like SecuROM. Problem is, it's like bacteria that adapts to antibiotic; pirates will do whatever they can to bypass the security measures placed before them (SecuROM, in fact, was developed because previous means to prevent piracy were already being easily bypassed).

Developers have cash, hackers have time, and both are skilled enough to make the most of each.

Good, I hate pirates. They ruin too many games. Ninjas FTW.