I'm not surprised the DLC sold so well, the game was great. I'd buy them both myself if I wasn't against using microsoft points for PC DLC.

Shame that for many people DLC would not work. Still a great game thouh

And I'll gladly spend my money for BioWare DLCs, even despite having the powerful toolset at my more geeky computer brethren disposition, who without no doubt will be creating little wonders of their own. But as long as additional DLCs might have a little bit more meat to it than both Stone Prisoner and Warden Keep combined (at least, quest wise), it would be great.

cieply:
Shame that for many people DLC would not work. Still a great game thouh

Your avatar is brilliant.

Anyway, I have to say that the excuses he made for day 1 DLC were actually pretty good ones, so I wasn't too cheesed off by this. Plus Stone Prisoner is free.

Damn I can't wait to get this for Christmas.

Good. That means there were at least 1 million copies of Dragon Age sold within the first week: and I'm extremely happy to see that.

scotth266:
Good. That means there were at least 1 million copies of Dragon Age sold within the first week: and I'm extremely happy to see that.

You assume people aren't stupid enough to buy DLC without the game.

SomeBritishDude:

scotth266:
Good. That means there were at least 1 million copies of Dragon Age sold within the first week: and I'm extremely happy to see that.

You assume people aren't stupid enough to buy DLC without the game.

What I want to know if there's an online retailer where I can buy just the DLC. I know D2D has both versions (normal and deluxe, with DLC), but I want to buy the game first and then see if I enjoy it.

SomeBritishDude:

scotth266:
Good. That means there were at least 1 million copies of Dragon Age sold within the first week: and I'm extremely happy to see that.

You assume people aren't stupid enough to buy DLC without the game.

Yeah... but c'mon, there can't have been TOO many of those. Maybe 5k tops.

OK, now I don't want to sound all "L4D Boycotter" on here, but I strongly believe that Day One DLC should be included into the game! Jesus tap-dancing Christ, pretty soon we won't be buying games anymore, just DLC for 20 fucking dollars a piece. What is with all these video-game makers trying to screw over their own market and piss us off?!

People need to remember that all this DLC was offered in the Pre Order Special editions. I still think you are all lucky to have been allowed to buy it?

I got the Delux version, was well worth it!

I'd much rather have DLC too early than too late. Too me it shows that DLC is more than an afterthought and I can expect much more in future, unlike the limited DLC of ME.

AkJay:
OK, now I don't want to sound all "L4D Boycotter" on here, but I strongly believe that Day One DLC should be included into the game! Jesus tap-dancing Christ, pretty soon we won't be buying games anymore, just DLC for 20 fucking dollars a piece. What is with all these video-game makers trying to screw over their own market and piss us off?!

Furburt:

The niggling feeling that you're missing out on essential stuff. I usually buy DLC and expansion packs anyway, but day one DLC niggles me a bit. While the other stuff is probably thing the devs thought up after the game came out, which is always good, day one DLC makes me feel like they're purposefully holding back on the good stuff.

Maybe not as excitedly as AkJay but I must agree with the above posters, Day One Downloadable Content simply begs the question:

Why wasn't this content included in the original game?

I suppose the question is actually moot for myself though, my budget doesn't allow for anything but waiting for pretty hefty sales or a low price point on games before I can make a purchase, so Independent Developers seem to get a good portion of my gaming money these days. *shrug* See you in a future sale Dragon Age, whatever you are.

i am thinking of gettting this game is it good? from the reviews i hear that its either amazing or shite depending on what u like genre wise

mayney93:
is it good?

Yes. That is all.

I picked up my copy of DA:O yesterday, not bought Warden's Keep yet because...well, I haven't had much cause to really. I'll pick it up when I feel the need to. It's not as if I don't have plenty of hours to go along with the main game plus Stone Prisoner as it is already.

CantFaketheFunk:

Our very own Virgil as an excellent and informative post about how software development actually works that I strongly suggest you read. It isn't so simple as "let's throw extra stuff into the game."

For those unwilling to click the link and read the post in all its glory, here ya go:

Virgil:

hURR dURR dERP:
To me, the entire Warden's Keep (and Stone Prisoner, but at least that one's free) quest feel like they've just been ripped from the game just to create some DLC.

level250geek:
If you release DLC within a month of a game's release--much less on day one--then you have spent at least a portion of that game's development cycle on said DLC, meaning that you could have implemented into the game, meaning that by charging us additional money for it you are ripping us off.

Eric the Orange:
Wait, this was released on the same day as the game. Uh, so why wasn't it included in the game?

I am always struck by exactly how ignorant many gamers are of how game or software development actually works. Let me try to explain this for you all:

First, any studio-developed game has a set time limit and budget for development. This should be common sense. All of the time that artists, writers, voice actors, programmers, and QA testers spend working on content is time that they are paid for.

Because of this, there is a set amount of content that can be included in a retail game (which pretty much has a fixed price). This is typically decided early on, and as the game development progresses things are added and removed depending on the difficulties the developer encounters. At each point, a decision is made as to whether X feature is important enough to increase the time/cost of the game development - if it's not, it can get cut from the game. Many of these features might be very cool, and developers can be sad to see them cut, but this happens with every game.

At some point in the development process, the designers have to stop adding new features and content. At this point, the programmers and QA become very busy testing, optimizing, and porting content. In the past, this is the stage where most of the writers, designers, and artists either get fired or get moved to another game.

Instead of firing the content creators, many newer games are deciding to instead have them make more content, to be tested and released separately from the game as DLC. This does not mean that the time that is used to create this is free, or that it is a part of the retail game. In some cases, the designers go back to stuff that was cut from the original game and rework it and fix the problems, because they really didn't want to see it removed in the first place.

While this is happening, the final "gold" version of the game is created. This is the version that first needs to pass the console manufacturers' certifications, and then need to be sent to manufacturing. This can take several weeks. During this time, the programmers and QA can test the DLC content that the rest of the team had been working on. Because they're working off the final version of the game now, and this is just extra content, this process goes a lot faster. It is easily possible that digital content can be tested and ready to be released before the retail versions of the game are even done being manufactured.

But all this time isn't 'free' - the assumption that the people working on this content would otherwise be being paid to add things to the retail game is just stupid. That game development time and budget has already been spent - they would either be working on something else entirely, or looking for a new job.

To create this new stuff, it has to be paid for somehow. For The Stone Prisoner, it's being paid for to see if it helps make up for used game sales - a particular problem for a mostly-linear story-based RPG. The Warden's Keep content, on the other hand, is a marketing promotion to sell the more expensive digital collector's edition (sans cloth map). If you aren't 'paying' for the content in one of those two ways, then you should expect to pay for it directly.

Since Funk used this as his informed response, I will address this post by highlighting a few parts and then saying this - I full on agree with Virgil's post, I get it, I really do.

It still doesn't make the question go away for the chosen platform I game with, PC. All my content these days is effectively DLC thanks in part to the retail experience being such a crappy experience; most places I walk into these days give so little premium shelf space to PC gaming that it is easy to miss in the ocean of console retail space.

And if I follow the time table as set out by Virgil's post, then why are PC gamers not getting the game in the form of DLC several weeks before the console gamers get delivered to their retail space? Then if several weeks later, when the game does get released retail, wham bam, here is some new DLC PC gamers! If the time table was that, I would be praising the content providers, not wondering why it wasn't in the original game. Would it really hurt them to have games be slightly more exclusive to the PC simply because it is easier to deliver content and support to the PC platform? Not unless it was a crappy game by gamers' estimates, hurting their word of mouth reviews.

These developers and publishers are just not supporting the PC platform and in Day One DLC it shows thanks to being informed of the various processes it is possible to develop the software. There are whole sections of console red tape that the PC platform jumps past leaps and bounds and they are just not utilizing it.

So I ask again with some clarification: Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

And if they'd included all that content on the disk and raised the retail price of the game accordingly, the same players would have cried havoc.

But I guess I'm just sensitized to game prices since I moved to Canada, where they slap another $10 onto the pricetag just for shits and giggles. It's our little taste of Australia!
Plus I still remember the days when a console game was never more than $50, so ever since it's gone above that it's felt like an unfairness.

johnx61:

CanadianWolverine:
So I ask again with some clarification: Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

Maybe you should forward that opinion to Bioware and they can email it to 2 years ago. And then they can make sure that the guy who decided to cry about a business decision in the distribution phase has plenty of say in their entire development process. Or perhaps you failed to notice that they are selling an extra adventure because they had to devote extra capital to creating it. Maybe we can just do it your way and stick it in the "gold" game framework and tack the cost onto the release price of the game. I mean it's not like that extra $10 is gonna drive people away.

I'm glad you're horse allows you to trot about so highly, expecting to get something for nothing. May I suggest you dismount it, though. Nosebleeds tend to occur at that elevation.

How exactly does this not descend into a flame war? High horse? Nose bleeds? How else can I put this with out calling for a plague on both your houses? ;)

Not once did I mention any problems with paying for the content, unless you are suggesting that by somehow including it in the initial final product that is asking for something for free when you just shelled out for it ... what?!? Is that honestly how you see the question?

And yes, I am totally calling out Bioware, EA, Activision, Infinity Ward, or whoever else conducts any business practices that I do not see favorable as a possible customer. Letting a salesperson know why you are not seeing their product in a favorable light should hardly be a reason for you to level such bullshit against a well meaning question of a business practice. I am not proposing any significant change to their development cycle, just asking that if a product is tested and ready for release on PC but has to wait for approval by the consoles, why is that not seen as under-utilization of the strengths of the PC platform?

In conclusion to your reply, I would be more than willing to get off my high horse when you get out from under your bridge.

johnx61:

Is anyone actually forcing you to buy the DLC?

Sure, this person with a balaclava and 9mm handgun pressed against my head. Oddly enough, he made no mention of the Dragon Age game itself or any other desired purchases with the contents of my wallet. Any other silly questions that actually don't address even remotely my concerns with Day One DLC for a PC game? No?

I see this as straight up Digital Delivery Timing versus Retail Delivery Timing.

Here's a few relevant questions for you and others, does console DLC have to pass the console manufacturers' certifications? If a PC game could arrive on Impulse or Steam "shelves" sooner than on consoles retail shelves, would you welcome that or get your nerd rage on?

The DLC doesn't go through the same system that the rest of the game did. The last month or two of a game's pre-Gold life is mostly debugging and testing. All the programmers, artists, and other employees not essential to the debugging/testing phase are free to do whatever with their time. Much of the DLC was part of the original game, but had to be cut because the completion time would have been too long before debugging/testing started, because they have to remain on a schedule.

Bioware, and Gearbox have had their teams working on DLC during said times, rather than having them go on vacation, which is why the DLC was/is able to come out so soon after the game's release, having partly done content from the game cut, so their DLC was already well worked on. DLC, as of yet, doesn't go through a 60 day debug term.

So, I'm not upset about how sudden the DLC is.