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I compleatly agree. | |
Well, they say that now. But what will they say when someone makes even more addictive MMO, and everyone will run there from WoW? He has a very solid point though - we definetly need more variety in MMO games. | |
It's a classic case of "If it works for them, it will work for us" mentality. And if you're gonna imitate WoW, at least use a little subtlety. However, if there was one aspect of WoW that should be standard by now, it would have to be instances. No one wants to wait for a week for a boss to spawn, only to find out that another guild has staked their claim on it. I went through that, and it sucked. | |
Technically, CoH is still ongoing: they're releasing an expansion soon, aren't they? So that's still a viable example, if not the best one. Personally, I don't like MMOs much: and I didn't like WoW at all. It was too impenetrable at the start: it lacked the hook that MMOs need to get me committed. Ragnarok Online had a similar problem. City of Heroes is, ironically, the only pay-to-play MMO that has ever gotten a follow-up from me. Go figure, eh? | |
I think when it comes to huge licences like LotR or maybe Star Trek, pasting a new face onto the WoW (that is, the Everquest) template ensures a return. But creating a new universe from scratch with the old template won't beat WoW at its own game, especially now it's had the benefit of four years of patching. | |
and at first they thought WOW was going to be a flop | |
Ain't possible my friend. OT; WoW is as popular as it is because it is a jack-of-all-trades. Games like Guild Wars or Warhammer tend to focus on only one aspect and make it great (Guild Wars graphics for instance) whereas WoW is an all-rounder. Its almost creepy-and this comes from a WoW player- to see what Blizzard have unleashed; WoW has defeated so many MMO's its practically sitting on a throne of skulls eating the flesh of baby MMO's, like its achieved some sort of immortal status. | |
The reason he said it was a bad example is because CoH was released before WoW, so to say CoH is copying WoW is backwards (at least to some degree, barring updates that may have been applied to CoH utilizing things that WoW had at launch etc.). At any rate, this is one of those instances where I feel compelled to bring up Mythic studios. Had they done the intelligent thing, and modeled their MMO after the 40k universe instead of the classic fantasy one, we may have finally had an engaging sci-fi MMO that was accessible (unlike Anarchy Online) and encouraged you to play it (wtf Eve?). As a matter of fact, the studio may have gotten more subscriptions out of it just from folks like me who are utterly sick of the fantasy motiff in MMOs. But... well, we all know what happened with WAR. | |
Good for Blizzard. MMORPGs have such a broad genre with lots of room to explore, but most of them just hover close to WoW holding their money bags high, hoping to catch what falls out of WoW's overflowing bag. I want to see an MMO with a battle system that functions like a fighting game. No menus all over the screen, no auto attack, no pressing F1-F10 to get things to happen for you. Just some good old jumping about and attacking. Like real-time swordfights, where blades can actually clash against each other during battle, and deflect if they cross paths. Also, as Yahtzee would put it, let's see a fantasy-themed MMO with creatures that weren't jacked from JRR Tolkien's garden. | |
I think star wars galaxies had a hybrid between active abilities and real time shooting. You could hold alt and shoot like a 3rd person shooter/ Or slash. | |
Welcome to the now. | |
This has nothing to do with the article, but has Mr. Funk got some sort of monopoly on all things related to WoW and other MMOs? | |
I agree that CoH (and CoV) are the best example to offer in this case. Sure, CoH was around before WoW, but WoW had a built-in player base of fans of Blizzard's previous games. The fact that CoH is still around after 5 years while competing against WoW has something to be said for it. Sure, it's not the biggest game out there, but many folks, myself included, still play it to varying degrees, unlike,say....WAR- a game I LOVED during beta, but was utterly disappointed with when it was released unfinished. but it's true that designers shouldn't copy WoW because, like previously stated, folks who want that can just play WoW instead. I'm not really sure if anything revolutionary can still be made that isn't some sort of direct copy of a game already attempted/out there--we have Superhero MMOs, Space MMos, fantasy MMOs, sim MMos, shooter MMos, et al.
Ragnarok could have been a fantastic game, I played it from Alpha and only stopped around the time that the 3rd classes were being released in Korea. The problem with RO was that it didn't have a quest system--folks just leveled by grinding and camped MVP spawns. If it had incorporated some quest lines (beyond the creation of gear like Drooping Cat or Devi hat), it would have been bigger. It had a lot of things that appealed to folks--a "cute" look to it, varied class systems, PVP situations, rare spawns and dungeons. It just got boring when you hit 99... =/ | |
I meant that he might be praising the developer for trying new things with their expansion, instead of trying to JUST copy WoW with it. If he was talking about the original game though, yeah, he messed up :D | |
Not at all; I'm just the one most likely to post MMOG related stuff since I'm the News Room guy who finds it most interesting :P | |
Thanks, I've been wondering for a while now. | |
Can't really argue with him. None of the fantasy-genre MMOs have really 'taken off' to the extent of WoW's success. The two MMOs I'm most interested in that have been announced are Dust from CCP which is still well on the horizon and TOR from Bioware. I've got high hopes for them. | |
I may have posted this somewhere else but I've been playing WoW for 4 years and been waiting for something different from MMOPRGs. I first started with Guild Wars and after a while it got boring so I tried WoW. They're totally different games and that's what made me finally leave GW to play WoW. Now, I am at the point where I want another new MMOPRG but none have been able to have something original enough to keep my attention. I tried WAR from closed beta to 4 months after launch and the game was great until the Devs couldn't figure out how to balance classes... Right now, I am looking at Global Agenda with high hopes but I am going to wait until it launches before I decide to give up my money like I did with WAR. WTB New MMORPG Developers with New Ideas! PST =P | |
In the words of the almighty Swisgaar: "Stops copies me's!" Gotta say after seeing WAR and Aion I gotta agree and disagree at the same time. It is very difficult to make a game that trumps WoW in its own arena. Trying to make a game that is a WoW improvement is a big risk. WoW is not perfect which means a game could be made that is better. However it has yet to happen and so the safe route is to make a different kind of MMO. | |
Should someone have said that to Blizzard about Warhammer, Tolkein, TSR and EQ at some point? | |
I've seen too many fantasy games that are way too similar to WoW. Variety = Good. | |
Good response, Dabiri. And way to not make it an enigma. | |
What about WoW that copied basically every good idea about an MMO in the past... 8 or so years? Hell, they even copied ORvR from DaoC and WAR... | |
Variety is never rewarded though, EQ and EQ2 are both for the more "hardcore" set, the games actually have penalties for dying beyond the small amounts of cash it takes to repair gear and the raids require more work and larger numbers (if you tried to take out some of the current raid trash mobs the way you do the wow trash you'd end up with a bunch of dead players getting rezzes and eating xp loss, then waiting 30 minutes for another go while you rest, rebuff, rest again and make a new strat.) Both games are barely hanging on now though because people want easy. | |
"WoW is like The Beatles, they are the biggest thing in the industry. If you try and copy The Beatles you end up becoming The Monkeys." | |
I think its "Accessible" they want, not necessarily easy. And being harder is not automatically variety. Eve online is very different to WoW (ignore what Yahtzee said; lets just say he didn't review it properly) and that'd had a steadily growing customer base for awhile now - ok, its not WoW level popular, but its sustainable, which is more than the WoW clones can say (I'm looking at you Age of Conan). | |
amen | |
I do agree, copying Wow is a pretty tired idea (marketable though it may be). | |
Blizzard; you can just ask nicely to have a monopoly, it's basic economics if a firm is making profit, others will move in on that market to gain a share of that profit. So Blizzard shoulf let the economy do it's thing :P | |
Yes, stop trying to copy WoW... they might get the formula correct and take customers away >_> | |
Isn't the entire point of imitating a popular product to make your cheaper product available to people that can't afford the real thing? | |
The one thing wow did for MMOs is make things simple,easy and fun. But the trouble with simple and fun is is septic to the anti septic nature of a MMO, look at FF11 its so loaded down with restrictions its like work to play the damn thing. Devs need to to give players the option of easy or hard with mature groups and guilds of adventures(50+ in lvl I suppose) having to deal with higher and higher leveled monster leaders. Basically allow single players to finish the games story/class by doing the lone wolf thing and then if they want more out of that character they will have to join up with others or be forced to slowly climb up a annoying nearly endless ladder. IE make it harder to play when you are 50 or 100+ as a lone wolf make it a bit easier in groups. But that's not enough always allow advance players to make trade offs to sell off their old skills and unused or underused finished skill trees to start a skill in a different class to keep things interesting. I find MMOs to be a drag and severely lack in customization PVP can be easily handled by lvl>victories then if people must do battle numberize stats/skills so they can be handicapped for the duel. For the MMO world itself worry more about keeping things interesting and fun than keeping people playing 24/7 "working" on a Gdamn game.... Take a RPG like FF4 or FF6 Phantasy star 2 or 4 with the fun equipment,skills and such make that into a MMO with minor restrictions alot of story,equipment and things to do lets not make another MMO like FF11 where there are more rules than monster hordes......... | |
I think it's a different thing, but that reflects more how the market has changed than anything with the individual games. When WoW came out you had a bunch of big titles but no single market leader - you had DAoC, EQ, FFXI, etc, and all were FAIRLY close in terms of marketshare. There was no single "Oh, this game is just LIKE this other game, I'll go play the other game instead" because it was more evenly distributed. These days, if a game tries to be like WoW, there's only one game to really compare it to in the public mindset since WoW is such a mammoth. Is it a bit of a double standard? Of course. But markets change over time.
Maybe, but clearly it's worked out for them ;) Besides, I think it's a bit old hat to complain about any high fantasy product re: Tolkien considering that every high fantasy product is copying him in some way. | |
its sad that any new mmorpg that will come out in the future will have the sword of Damocles that is WoW hanging over its head. Unless its something like APB which is GTA in mmorpg form, the only thing developers should worry about is making the game work well, fun, accessible, and have lots of virerity (cant spell that word sue me). Iv played WoW for a long time but now Im just gonna pray @ the altar of Bioware so they make The Old Republic as awesome as possible, even though its gonna be WoW with lightsabers and in the future, I dont care I just love the Star Wars universe 100000000 times more then Warcraft. | |
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Blizzard: Stop Trying to Copy WoW
If you're a developer looking to get a piece of the MMORPG pie, trying to follow in World of Warcraft's footsteps is "definitely not the right move," says Blizzard lead producer Shane Dabiri.
If you're an aspiring up-and-coming game maker who wants to make MMOGs, there's no bigger aspiration than to achieve the success of World of Warcraft. WoW, which has singlehandedly dominated the online gaming space since it launched five years ago, is the Holy Grail of the Massive genre. Many have followed in its footsteps hoping to replicate its success as a money-printing machine, but none have even come close. In the latest issue of PC Zone magazine, World of Warcraft lead producer Shane Dabiri said that trying to beat WoW at its own game wasn't the smartest idea in the world:
"There are a lot of people that try to emulate World of Warcraft - and as flattering as that is our end it's definitely not the right move," said Dabiri. "I know that World of Warcraft is very successful, and so people think if they were to make another game just like it they could somehow capture that audience. However, I don't think that's what players are looking for ... Players that have invested time in WoW don't just want to do the same thing in other game - they want to try something completely new and different."
Instead of trying to just ape WoW, Dabiri suggested that developers should just try to find something new that works for them. "I think the industry needs to move in that direction to come up with some innovative new MMOs that are trying really different things. Take City of Heroes - at least that's something that's not a fantasy game."
While I'm not sure that City of Heroes is the best example Dabiri could have used (considering that it came out before Blizzard's behemoth), it's hard to say that the man doesn't have a point. I'd be willing to bet that more people would rather play WoW then a game that tries to be WoW - there's only so much swords-and-sorcery that a guy can take. Games like Global Agenda and APB are (hopefully) good examples of MMOGs trying something new, and of course there's always the seminally odd EVE Online.
On the other hand, one could argue that WoW's refinements to the genre as far as accessibility is concerned are almost requisites for a new MMOG these days. To be fair, though, it's possible to make a pick-up-and-play game that doesn't require that people devote their lives to it in order to advance while still trying something new and relatively original.
The logic of Dabiri's statement is kind of a "duh" no-brainer, but it's nice to see someone actually getting out and saying it on the record for once.
(Via CVG)
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