Mass Effect 2's Nudity Level Decided by Dictatorship

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Mass Effect 2's Nudity Level Decided by Dictatorship

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BioWare puts what it wants in its games, and doesn't care what you, your mother, or Bunky the Wonder Clown think.

BioWare's Stanley Woo has interjected his opinion into a discussion over at the BioWare Social Network covering the "tame" Mass Effect 2 sex scenes. The original poster lists videogames with sexual content and suspects that sales numbers or EA lawyers could be the reasons why Mass Effect 2 doesn't include similar scenes. Woo's response makes him seem a little annoyed with the whole topic in general, as I might be if I were in his shoes.

"It's kinda funny that this topic keeps coming up over and over again," he says. "People who claim to be old enough and mature enough to handle sex and nudity in a game seem to believe that any lack of sex and nudity in the game is a sign of self-censorship. They generally don't believe that a game can be called 'mature' without explicit sex and/or nudity."

Woo continues: "Let me tell you, folks, that as a developer full of mature individuals, we are also free to not have explicit sex and/or nudity in our games, no matter what you, Fox News, the government, or Bunky the Wonder Clown has to say about it. We have never considered it a "problem," it is simply a choice we have made and we have every right to make that choice." I don't know why he's putting down the pull of Bunky the Wonder Clown, but I do agree that what BioWare wants in it games, BioWare should put in its games, end of story.

To Woo, sex and nudity aren't "what make [BioWare] games great," and insisting on a higher level sexual content only makes those insisting look immature. He says that while BioWare does not perform the job of a parent: "Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

I'm not sure why people persist on the topic of sex scenes in a game like Mass Effect 2. To me, sex scenes in a game or movie are almost pointless, sometimes only included for the thrill, not to add to the story. Mass Effect 2 has a great story, and I don't think nudity would have really added anything, so simply expressing the idea of a sex scene by fading to black works well enough for me. However, I can see the opposite side, where more explicit scenes could further express the unity between two individuals to the viewer... or something. As far as desiring a more explicit sex scene as a "reward" in Mass Effect 2, well, there are plenty of virtual sex scenes outside of videogames to reward yourself with if desired. Woo is right, whatever a creator deems appropriate for his work doesn't always have to be questioned as something toned down to appease "the man," and I couldn't care less if it was anyway in this case.

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Bunky the Wonder Clown?

nice they say this, and if i were working there, i'd still not want tits in the games mostly because graphics aren't perfect, so it's like a cartoon, and that's kind of sick

MR T3D:
nice they say this, and if i were working there, i'd still not want tits in the games mostly because graphics aren't perfect, so it's like a cartoon, and that's kind of sick

What exactly is "sick" about it? They are crafted to look like geniune people (or aliens). Honestly they more resemble real people than "cartoons."

You tell them Woo. Bioware games are flawless, if society was little less preoccupied with sex, then maybe this could just stop.

Also, shut it Woo, and work on making the relationships in video games more emotionally gratifying. You've got talented writers on staff, overcome the challenges involved and make some emotionally stunted chap try to marry one of your game characters.

Also, disregard my self-contradiction.

Also, get me a sandwich, for I am hungry.

In my opinion I felt that the love scenes were better in Mass Effect 2, they seemed carried more of an emotional connection between the characters. The scene in the first game just seemed awkward and maybe a little out of place, but that's just me.

Boxpopper:

MR T3D:
nice they say this, and if i were working there, i'd still not want tits in the games mostly because graphics aren't perfect, so it's like a cartoon, and that's kind of sick

What exactly is "sick" about it? They are crafted to look like geniune people (or aliens). Honestly they more resemble real people than "cartoons."

we have different eyes, sir, so my opinion pertains to my vision, i see the polygons and bitmaps where it seems that you see flesh.

i dont need sex and/or nudity in games, but the games that does include it, which can be great if theres a strong romantic sub/plot, should probably not take any notes from bioware, dragon age had some of the most unrealistic and awkward sex scenes known to man.

Tom Goldman:
"Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

To me it just seems wrong to call game development a dictatorship. Sure the developers decide what goes into the game, but when you call it a dictatorship it sounds like you're ignoring player feedback completley. Though that's probably not the message that he meant to send.

As for the sex scenes in Mass Effect 2, I really don't give a damn.I've never had an interest in them. I'm surprised to hear that so many people thought BioWare didn't have more explicit scenes because of censorship.

swaki:
i dont need sex and/or nudity in games, but the games that does include it, which can be great if theres a strong romantic sub/plot, should probably not take any notes from bioware, dragon age had some of the most unrealistic and awkward sex scenes known to man.

Honestly if you are going to have sex in a video game just fade to black. One of the things that always kills romance subplots for me are the awkward character animations.

I like romance and relationships in games, but I can take or leave the sex/nudity. I am neither offended by it or greatly desirous of it.

But... Bunky the Wonder Clown is a hero...

Anywho, I agree with him wholeheartedly, the maturity in a sex scene lies within the decision of when to cut to another scene, not in the sex itself.

Seems to me like he's kind of splitting hairs... if you want sex in your game, have sex in your game... if you don't like the idea of having sex in your game, then don't. You can have a meaningful relationship grow between two characters without the relationship ending in the bedroom. I say, if Bioware is going to put sex in thier games, give us something like they did in ME1... and if they feel squeemish about it, then find a way to keep the relationships from leading to a sexual encounter.

Outlaw Torn:
Bunky the Wonder Clown?

hes quite the pervert, he alone is responsible for half the rule 34 content and often spam BioWare with the request of alien boobs.

why he uses his stage name in the mails i dont know.

Apparently Bunky the Wonder Clown is a poster on Kotaku.

Even Kotaku are kicking our asses. We need to bribe some industry figures to make references to furburt so that we look more relevant.

Tom Goldman:

I'm not sure why people persist on the topic of sex scenes in a game like Mass Effect 2. To me, sex scenes in a game or movie are almost pointless, sometimes only included to for the thrill, not to add to the story. Mass Effect 2 has a great story, and I don't think nudity would have really added anything, so simply expressing the idea of a sex scene by fading to black works well enough for me.

It's just that the scenes are so laughable (especially in DA:O) that I wonder why they included them to begin with. I mean it just seems like they are pandering to desperate shut-ins to get some extra money here. Either leave out the silly romance or do it properly (and by this I don't mean 'show some breasts, make them more important to the story). Actually just leave it out.

The way you hooked up was laughable too:

Mir:'Hey Shepard, I'm genetically superior'
She:'Wanna have..love, make..sex? Penis..vagina?
Mir:'kk'

Crunchy English:

Also, shut it Woo, and work on making the relationships in video games more emotionally gratifying. You've got talented writers on staff, overcome the challenges involved and make some emotionally stunted chap try to marry one of your game characters.

Shut it Woo, indeed.

Internet Kraken:

Tom Goldman:
"Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not."

To me it just seems wrong to call game development a dictatorship. Sure the developers decide what goes into the game, but when you call it a dictatorship it sounds like you're ignoring player feedback completley. Though that's probably not the message that he meant to send.

It's kind of strange to hear a game developer say this, as I have always believed the best games can be made when you listen to the well thought out suggestions of your fans.

Surly sitting around going "this is good, shut up" would be bad for business...
Funny thing, though, this dictatorship apparently decided to trawl the Internet for every comment they could find about the first Mass Effect in order to "refine" the series.

Something doesn't seem right...

swaki:

Outlaw Torn:
Bunky the Wonder Clown?

hes quite the pervert, he alone is responsible for half the rule 34 content and often spam BioWare with the request of alien boobs.

why he uses his stage name in the mails i dont know.

It's part of his fetish. Bunky is the embodiment of my his twisted desire.

Internet Kraken:
To me it just seems wrong to call game development a dictatorship. Sure the developers decide what goes into the game, but when you call it a dictatorship it sounds like you're ignoring player feedback completley. Though that's probably not the message that he meant to send.

Precisely what I intended to mention, thanks a lot ninja!

I haven't said this in a long time.

But....Mr. Woo, well said. I am glad that at least some people in the gaming industry have the quad to do what they want and elevate the medium at the same time.

Bioware you have earned my hard-earned cash.

Outlaw Torn:
Bunky the Wonder Clown?

He's the REAL end boss of Dragon Age. He's the real master of the Reapers in Mass Effect. He's the one who shot Bambi's mother, caused the war between the Capulets and the Montagues, and he's the guy who built Unicron. Bunky the Wonder Clown is the ultimate final boss.

Internet Kraken:
One of the things that always kills romance subplots for me are the awkward character animations.

I cannot stress THIS enough. I was quite satisfied with ME2's fade to black.

Go BioWare!

Sticking it to the Man!
The Man, of course, is Bunky the Wonder Clown.

Always listen to Bunky the Wonder Clown. Or he'll cut you.

ALWAYS.

There are games, there's porn, and than there's "ero-ge".

I like my Bioware RPG outside of the later 2 categories. I have no beef with the "5 seconds of ass" that can be seen in ME1 and DA:O, but those games would still be just as epic even with a simple "kiss + fade to black" instead.

They should have had more graphics sex scenes in ME2 just to stick it to Fox. Or they could have at least SHOWN TALIS FACE! I want to know what Quarians look like under those masks :(

On the next Psycho Celebrity Deathmatch: Woo vs Bunky the Wonder Clown! Who will get their nose honked for the last time?

I can respect his position, even though he took a pretzel path to get to it. I for one am not going to get Mass Effect 2 for its sex. I wants it for the action!
I'll get Heavy Rain for its sex.

I think this is all just misdirected rage at not being able to see Tali's face.

So Bioware is like a dictatorship and doesn't care what Bucky the Wonder Clown thinks? I am going to tell that to everyone.

Hmm, it's a hard thing to really comment on.

Mass Effect 1's love scenes were a bit cringe worthy because of the models, and they felt a bit hollow. Mass Effect 2's romances were a thousand times better - From what I've seen of the ones I've not experienced, they're all really emotionally charged. I don't think I'd have liked to see FemShep try to play Buckaroo with Garrus, but on the other hand I felt like it was a bit of a let down. FemShep didn't even kiss him! I would rather they'd have done a little more "physical stuff" instead of the post-final mission bowlacks we currently have. I'm sorry, BioWare, but I don't think ":|" is the face anyone would have in their lover's arms.

But as for Mr Woo's comments about a dictatorship? I have massive respect for BioWare (I've lost hundreds of hours to their games), and I think that it was an utterly disgusting comment for one of their employees to say. Yes, I agree it's up to BioWare what goes into their games, but it shouldn't be a "dictatorship". We are the ones who buy the games and as an extension of that, we're the ones who fund the merchandise, the sequels, the patches, the DLC etc, so what we want should be at least respected and not treated like rubbish.

If you set a standard with your games, you should stick to it, and I think BioWare need to tread carefully with ME3 if they want to keep the support of customers. Anyone who's kept upto date with ME2 and the Social Network forums will know there's a lot of rage against BioWare for basically sidelining homosexual relationships (Kelly is a fling in their eyes, not a romance/relationship).

I like the part where the developer stuck it to the annoying internet fanboy.

I still feel that a sex scene is totally unnecessary in a game. You can show that two people had sex without having to actually show them physical gyrating against each other. I also like how Woo stuck it to the immature twats who keep saying "MOR BEWBS!" and keep implying (or saying) "DO WHA I SAY ITS MO BETTER!". Some people need to learn that just because you like a game, that does not make it yours, it is still the sole property of the owner to use and abuse as he likes.

The sex scenes in the original were too stiff and awkward. I'm glad it was changed.

Doc Shaftoe:
I think this is all just misdirected rage at not being able to see Tali's face.

you are correct sir!

ya thats what all those sick sick modders are for!

Tom Goldman:
To me, sex scenes in a game or movie are almost pointless, sometimes only included to for the thrill, not to add to the story.

Don't agree there. Sometimes a good sex scene can almost make the story. Consider Sam Lowry's scene in Brazil, or for a more complete action Wild Things, Cruel Intention, Rear Window, The Hunger or even Brokeback Mountain.

Granted, 9 times out of 10 they're only titillation, and 8.5 of those are simply pink bits flapping like grunting turkeys; but I wouldn't be too quick to disregard the idea of a powerful sex scene.

Woo always did strike me as being more than a bit of an ass on the forums. His attitude has always rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, technically he's right, Bioware puts what they want in the game, we decide to buy it or not. But if Bioware gets too uppity and doesn't listen to the audience at all, they will find themselves selling a lot fewer games. From that point of view, the game creation is a collaborative process... if they are smart.

Regardless, it was a pretty arrogant way to say "We really felt this was the best way to do this for the game". That's really all he needed to say to justify the whole thing. But I've sort of always perceived him as being kind of an arrogant sort. That whole "End of line!" crap he posts on every thread he locks just pisses me off for some reason.

seeing as how there is an uncut and somewhat more expicit version of the miranda scene floating around, it's safe to say stuf did get censored.

A "dictatorship?" Sure, gamers/consumers don't have any direct say in what goes into a game, but completely ignoring public opinion is a direct path to failure. That doesn't mean I don't know what Woo is saying; he didn't really say that BioWare was ignoring consumers. I mean, hey, look at the uncharted planets side missions from Mass Effect 1. They certainly responded to the problem in Mass Effect 2; now, instead of wonky controls, exploring space is just boring.

The picture of Jack was a clever choice, by the way.

More Fun To Compute:
Apparently Bunky the Wonder Clown is a poster on Kotaku.

Even Kotaku are kicking our asses. We need to bribe some industry figures to make references to furburt so that we look more relevant.

I like that idea, except for the "we" part. It's out of your pocket, good sir!

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