| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
He admits that...But yeah. The problem is...our hobby has EVOLVED. At this point, I can safely say that I don't even consider Wii Sports a "game". Therefore, playing Wii Sports with your parents is hardly "gaming together". Eh. We need to get off this mass appeal motion control shtick. | |
Finally someone who gets it. Not all gaming is going to go to the stick waggle method, but it is useful for getting some people into gaming and stopping them from turning up their noses at my gaming. | |
This is definitely true... If, for example, the next-gen consoles all heavily utilise motion controls, then I would be incredibly disheartened by the prospect of having to flail my arms around with a lot of the games I get. Frankly, I'm happy with my traditional controller. | |
Deus Ex, every time you mention it, someone reinstalls it. ... Proceeds to reinstall Deus Ex. | |
I agree with everything this man says. I'm happy enough with the less gimmicky games on the Wii, but knowing the whole games industry is moving towards that area is a worrying thought. I've been sitting in front of a monitor since I was 3 years old playing DOOM, I don't really feel like changing that. | |
I think the whole motion control thing has gotten popular mostly due to the fear of obesity. I, personally, prefer to relax when I game, so I can definitely see the point he's getting at. | |
Thanks to both this story and the article itself, I want a web video series called "Spector Speculates" | |
You had it UNINSTALLED?! LE GASP! | |
Motion controls are really dumb. If I want to relax, I'll sit on my ass on play a game. I don't want to have to wave my limbs about like a madman | |
Motion controls aren't a bad thing, but they will surely become one if the next great RPG / RTS / FPS whatever on the PS3 or 360 follows the Wii road and demands waggling. I am a huge fan of the Metroid and Zelda series but I can't stand the thought of playing them with the Wii remote, it becomes more about getting the controls right and less about the experience for me. | |
And an essintial part of my childhood was playing on the Gamecube! I like the Wii, but it has to be a one off. Or else, we might have a future where people are just waving around and jumping up and down. | |
Yes well motion control is a gimmick. Nothing more. I truly can not see it becoming a gaming standard. And to be honest, I think it is kind of stupid. I, especially when its cold, love just sitting with a blanket over me playing games with the minimum of movement possible and often hold my controller at odd angles. I do not want to stand there swinging a controller around looking like a twat. Even the S-Axis would get annoying if you have to hold the controller in one set angle and shaking the damn thing every 5 minutes. | |
I'm with this guy on the fact that gaming nowadays is seeming to become very gimmicky and less about the fun that is gaming. | |
I am glad that motion controls have shaken up the dominance of twin stick controllers. They are not the best for a large number of games that make up the history of video games and cementing their place as the only controller you need for anything would be a shame. I don't know why Warren Spector is becoming the patron saint of keeping the spirit of gaming alive as he has been outspoken in past about consigning a lot of well loved classic game design elements to the trashcan of history. | |
What is going on in the crotch area of this guy's pants. Its a little dark down there don't you think? And yes I looked down there, call me what you will. On Topic and appropriate. I don't want to dismiss motion control yet for the 360 and ps3. It might be really fun and different. Or not, who knows. | |
I think what he was trying to say was "motion control is not the future of gaming, motion control is merely a PART of the future of gaming". | |
Hehe, too true. Also, he does have a point. People have learned to game over a very long time and then totally reinventing the shweel as such will be a bit of a culture shock... I just hope not all games will be made like that.... | |
Well, I was worried that I was going to lose all respect for this guy over inane Wii-bashing, so I was greatly relieved to see him being reasonable about it. He's got something of a point. While the Wii is not a bad thing, the Xbox and Playstation rip-offs ARE a bad thing because of the motives behind their creation. Have Microsoft and Sony decided to add motion controls to consoles that WEREN'T specifically designed with motion control in mind because they have really great ideas for games with motion control? Fuck no! They're doing it because the Wii is kicking their asses and they think they can juice more money out of the gaming public by copying Nintendo! The problem is that while the Wii has a lot of great games, it also has a lot of shit ones and the shit ones are largely shit because the motion control isn't implemented well. As Yahtzee put it in his review of Madworld, he'll stop complaining about bad motion control when it actually fucking WORKS properly. And if that's what happens to games on a console DESIGNED to use motion control, what do you think will happen with the games on the 360 and PS3 that have motion control crammed into them? It'll do nothing but degrade the games. What Spector is saying is that people should't be rushing to put motion control into games just because they can. After all, we've got by for 30 years now with standard control interfaces (joysticks, keyboard and mouse, controller pads) so we shouldn't drop something that has worked for us all this time just to keep up with the Joneses. If you have a great motion control idea, then great! But don't go chasing motion control like having it in your game is your ultimate objective. Motion control is a means, not an end. | |
lol I thought I was the only one who noticed that | |
I don't really see it as a problem, but I do agree with the guy. The Wii has done motion control pretty well...in those games that have treated it like a genuine system rather than a fad (the list of non-Nintendo developers following this path is as yet disappointingly small). It's probably right to be worried that Sony and Microsoft might treat the system as the latter. | |
Care to explain what makes a game then? | |
other than the fact that every sports game except Wii Sports is more than just little mini-games? that you can actually have a season and trade in/out athletes at will? saying Wii Sports is an actual sports game is like saying hopscotch is on par with football [EU/NA] and hockey. | |
Motion control is like salt. All by itself, it tends to be unpleasant, but some people like it. A bit of it goes great in mashed potatoes or on steak. And it has no business at all on cake. I leave it to you to determine what is steak and what is cake. | |
Motion control is not necessarily throwing away 30 years of gaming tradition. It is simply the next evolutionary step in our glorious hobby. | |
I remember when I thought motion controls were great. That was before the Wii came out. Then I actually used them, and yearned to go back to normal controllers. I admit they can be handy in FPSs, but almost all of the time they feel tacked on. Now the entire industry's jumping on the bandwagon, and I'm pissed. I can't wait until this fad is over. | |
No, motion controllers are indeed the future. There are games that demand complexity, and they need to be played on a keyboard and mouse. And there are games that don't, and they used to be played with a controller. But now the controller has become too complex to work as a simple entry point for someone not used with gaming. Compare a 360 or PS3 controller with, say, a SNES controller. A SNES controller is not too far from a garage door opener, in the same way that the Wii controller is not too far from a remote control. I agree that developers are jumping into it blindly, but them's the works. When 3D first became feasible, many excellent franchises took the leap when they shouldn't, replacing charming painted 2D visuals with rudimentary, glitched 3D polygon fests, losing what they had. To this day the platformer and adventure genres haven't recovered. But I wouldn't say taking games to 3D was a bad move. Likewise, maybe some good genres will die because they don't fit with motion controllers and everyone will want to sock them in, but overall it's a step towards making games less of a hobby and more of an actual medium. | |
Honestly? I agree with Spector. I grew up on the last 3 generations of consoles and I've grown fond of the way we play games now. I don't really want that to change and I can understand if they decide to make a few games motion controlled. I just don't want to see EVERY game made into a motion controlled game. | |
For an example of how motion controls should work see Metroid Prime 3. All the motion controls add to the immersion. And aiming with a Wiimote is infinitely better than aiming with a thumbstick. It really is the only way to play a shooting game on the console. | |
Are you kidding me? Time invested in controllers? Every console has a different controller and most every game uses them differently, not to mention that it's not on par with say, learning a language or how to ride a bike. Any way you slice it though changing that is not "getting rid of gaming's history", the classics will never die, the facts, opinions, and feelings of everything about it are on record, and I'm convinced someone will be playing an NES in 2100 (even if they have to use 10 cans of compressed air to do it). I guess I shouldn't be surprised he too forgets that many Wii games can be played while sitting and not all of them require moving your whole arm (oh no, I have to use my shoulder!) but just wrist movement. All of this seems to ignore PC gaming too, which is... really weird. | |
I think we should listen to this guy, I mean, if The Council vouches for him then I say he probably knows what he's talking about. | |
Ahh, Doctor Spector.. I remember saving him from mind control in the Savage Empire and then teaming up with him on a trip to Mars. Good times, jolly good times... A hero could hardly ask for a better Sidekick. :P - At any rate, my problem with motion control is that it seems to be needlessly annoying for most games to flail around to control them. The current controller set up is great for being able to kick back in an EZ chair, relax, and play some games. Of course in my case I'm not only fat and out of shape, but also take a lot of medication and have issues with fatigue and dizziness... so needless to say the idea is less attractive to me than many others. When I am playing an RPG for example, I do not really think the experience would be improved by waving a controller like a magical wand, or trying to swordfight. That's what all the numbers are supposed to be for. When it comes to fighting games (oddly my second favorite genere), I don't think turning them all into Wii Boxing/Punchout clones would be a benefit, I like the current system of combos, buffering, etc... even if I'm hardly what you'd call awesome at it. Truthfully though I would get some lulz out of the idea of some of these ranged attack spammers having to stand up and make the proper fireball motions and yell "Haduken!" into a mic every time they performed a ranged attack. It WOULD finally discourage fireball spamming I think. :P | |
Says the member of of the 60% of the American population which is overweight. | |
and that's why I don't really play RPGs, if they put me and my actual skill in charge of things like that I'd be more interested
I'd be with you if he hadn't mentioned dizziness and fatigue (I'm assuming there's a medical reason besides getting fat on his own) | |
and that's why I don't really play RPGs, if they put me and my actual skill in charge of things like that I'd be more interested -- ... and that is fine, and a very mainstream attitude. That is why they make various kinds of games. There are already plenty of action based games using swords and magic that do exactly that kind of thing for those with your attitude. RPGS however are a differant genere, and would not really benefit from motion controls. On the other hand I suppose a motion controlled "God Of War" that made you swing the weapons or whatever would be fine for action fans. I will however point out that your attitude might very well change given time. I liked action games a lot more when I was younger. But when you get older things change. You *DO* slow down, and my father who is older than me (and I'm 34) still games and simply can't do that kind of stuff (where I'm merely increasingly bad at it compared to what I used to be capable of, when I was a teenager my fingers were a LOT quicker). Of course people slow down at differant rates, I'm sure there are 30+ year olds who agree with you. I personally don't care for the current state of today's so-called RPGs, but I also feel that demand will increase simply as today's twitchers who grew up with games lose the abillity to twitch, but still want to play games as more of a mental exercise. I see RPGs and Strategy games as being close to each other, and bleding the two works with some frequency. I see the "Action RPG" format some people are aiming for as being a contridictory pipe dream fueled by the theoretical amount of money a game that could cater to both the mainstream and a large, stable, and long running niche market and be worshipped by both could bring in. | |
| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
Extra Punctuation
MovieBob: Intermission
Experienced Points
First Person
Exploding Barrels
Miracle of Sound: Encore
Loading Time
Special Attack
Backchat
Drinking Games
Escape to the Movies
Escapecraft
Escapist News Wrap - Premium
Escapist Podcast
Feed Dump
GinxTV
Jimquisition
LoadingReadyRun
Mahalo
Meatbag and Co
Media Sandwich
Miracle of Sound
No Right Answer
Pro-Gamer Gauntlet
Reviews
Space Janitors
Tales from the Table
The Big Picture
The Escapist Presents
The Retro Show
Trailers
Unskippable
Zero Punctuation
Max Payne 3 Review
Company of Heroes 2
XCOM Enemy Unknown
Black Ops 2
Diablo 3 Review
TERA Review
Firefall Beta Preview
Starhawk Review
Critical Miss
Name Game
Spector: Motion Control Risks "Throwing Away Our Entire History"
Deus Ex developer Warren Spector thinks that the games industry should be careful not to toss the baby out with the bathwater as it rushes towards progress.
With Microsoft and Sony poised to heavily promote the hell out of their respective motion-control systems at this year's GDC, there's no doubt that the success of the Wii has led the industry to seriously consider alternative control as a major new path of progress. But famed designer Warren Spector isn't so sure, and said as much at the GDC '10 "Lunch with Luminaries" event, reports Gamasutra.
"I think it's kind of weird ... that we've sort of said, 'We've got 20, 30 years of people learning how to do this-- sitting on their couch and having a good time, and knowing where the buttons are' - and we're saying 'You've got to stand up and wave around and gesture,'" Spector mused. "We're in the process of throwing away people - kids, adults - who know this stuff."
Spector speculated that the rush to motion control might have been influenced by forces external to the industry, who want to see gaming technology hit all the Next Big Thing buttons. "Especially from outside the industry, there's a tendency to want to see seismic shifts, to want to see radical change, and we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater ... I don't know if we want to throw away our entire history because we want to use gestural controls."
It isn't that Spector hates motion control - he himself acknowledged that it was ironic of him to say such things given that he was working on Epic Mickey for the Wii. "I'm working on a Wii title and I'm loving it," he admitted. He just wants to make sure that we can all "keep our perspective a little more rational."
It seems reasonable. Not every game needs motion control - or should have motion control - but ask any gamer who tried for years to get their parents to game with them, and suddenly found them interested in playing Wii Golf or Tennis together, and you'll find that motion control is hardly a bad thing.
Permalink