Rare: Lag Not an Issue for Kinect

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Rare: Lag Not an Issue for Kinect

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You won't have to worry about lag on Kinect, not according to the developers of Kinect Sports, one of its flagship titles.

Lag is one of the biggest concerns with the Kinect technology, and probably one of the trickiest to deal with. But Nick Burton, an executive producer at Rare, says that gamers have nothing to worry about.

"Lag is not an issue. As with any prototype stuff, of course it was in the past. That's to be expected. Where we're at now, not at all. Yes, we've done a lot work to make sure it wasn't a problem, but when you've got something that's copying what you're doing you can't have a lot of lag."

According to Burton, the lag on Kinect Sports is set at 150ms, which I must admit seems a little high to the PC gamer in me, but must be quite reasonable when you're actually playing the game.

Burton also said that Rare was excited about the possibilities that Kinect presents: "There's so much more data, so much more fidelity, so many more things you can do," he said. "Kinect's not just about tracking - there's voice recognition, identity, so many things. It's more than the sum of its parts. I've been involved for a couple of years and even now we're like, 'Wow, there's all these things we could do!'"

"We are continually looking at what the next thing's going to be. It might be casual, it might be core, we've had such an eclectic mix over the years and we'll continue to do that."

Source: Eurogamer

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I'm not at all concerned with lag. At least, not in comparison to the amount of concern I feel due to the fact that they've set "Kinect Sports" as a flagship launch title for the peripheral. I mean FFS, could you possibly be any more obvious when going about copying the Wii? *Facepalm*

Kinect sports?

*Facepalm*

I'm more worried about the price than the lag.

Calumon: I wonder what it would think of me if I used it?

Awesome! Oh wait £100 price tag? ... Meh

Rare? As in Rare Ware? wow... they have officially been raped.
Rare are creating shovelware. Never thought I'd see the day!

Well, Wii Sports was sort of fun, and it used the Wii's controls pretty well. Maybe Kinect Sports will be just as good? If not then this is a really sad launch line-up we've seen so far. Most of them are casual games, and even worse, reek of shovelware. I'm still willing to give Kinect the benefit of the doubt, but so far it has done nothing to wow me.

Out of the two, I have to say that Move is appealing the most to me so far. It's pretty much just a glorified Wii, but that's not a bad thing. Now you can have a Wii with the PS3's graphics and power, allowing for far more complex games. That should be fun. Not to mention that it will be launching with support for a couple of high-profile games, like Killzone 3 and such. So Kinect is lagging (get it, pun?) behind if you ask me, it needs to show something that isn't just mini-games and Shovelware if I'm going to believe all this talk about "revolutionary technology."

Also, that said, looking at the newest Move games up on Gametrailers a lot of them do look like a foul bunch of Shovelware. Only Sorcery really appeals to me so far, all the rest looks like old Wii titles with a new paintjob.

Jack and Calumon:
Kinect sports?

Isn't there something similar on the Wii? Wii sports?

Oh yes, because Kinect is a shitty attempt to get the Wii market.

Logan Westbrook:
"Kinect's not just about tracking - there's voice recognition, identity, so many things.

Hahahaha.

Identity? What the hell is he talking about? So it can track and recognize voices and...give you an identity? It has an identity? Will further diminish Rare's identity?

From what I've seen of it so far (only from videos, no 1st hand experience) lag was as much as 1-2 seconds. I doubt they'd release the product like that and I'm pretty sure they've improved it, but lag is the last of my concerns with this software.

Kinect Sports...flagship indeed.

It's rare to see a developer go down like this.

Brotherofwill:

Logan Westbrook:
"Kinect's not just about tracking - there's voice recognition, identity, so many things.

Hahahaha.

Identity? What the hell is he talking about? So it can track and recognize voices and...give you an identity? It has an identity? Will further diminish Rare's identity?

From what I've seen of it so far (only from videos, no 1st hand experience) lag was as much as 1-2 seconds. I doubt they'd release the product like that and I'm pretty sure they've improved it, but lag is the last of my concerns with this software.

Kinect Sports...flagship indeed.

It's rare to see a developer go down like this.

Nah he means it identifies you when you walk in the camera's view. IE each person is tied to their gamertag, and all you have to do to sign in is walk in front of the camera. Which is kind of a cool feature, but ultimately doesn't really affect gameplay.

So lag isn't an issue because they say it isn't one, not because it isn't noticeable?

First, three demerits for copying the Wii BLATANTLY. At least give it a marginally more creative name.

Ten more demerits for having more lag than said copied game as well. At least do better than the "prototype" technology used years ago.

It's early days, games will get better, ideas will get bigger and unlike the wii or PSmove, kinect does have the potential to be genuinly amazing. M$ are a stubbon lot and they will persevere with kinect regardless of how successful it is to begin with. Prediction...in two/three years kinect will have a game that the whole world will want to play. Kinect units will sell out and M$ will claim victory over sony and nintendo.

Xzi:

Nah he means it identifies you when you walk in the camera's view. IE each person is tied to their gamertag, and all you have to do to sign in is walk in front of the camera. Which is kind of a cool feature, but ultimately doesn't really affect gameplay.

Why would anyone want that? Unless you have 3 different people using 1 Xbox I hardly would call that a feature. It's cool beans for the gimmick crowd but c'mon man...it's the third thing on his list?

More Fun To Compute:
So lag isn't an issue because they say it isn't one, not because it isn't noticeable?

Yeah. Developer logic.

150ms is game breaking in any game that I would care to use the Kinnect with. For starter, that would be infuriating in any action game that isn't just repetitive action. (Think any bullet hell games, or even some of the harder Mario maneuver).

imgunagitusucka:
It's early days, games will get better, ideas will get bigger and unlike the wii or PSmove, kinect does have the potential to be genuinly amazing. M$ are a stubbon lot and they will persevere with kinect regardless of how successful it is to begin with. Prediction...in two/three years kinect will have a game that the whole world will want to play. Kinect units will sell out and M$ will claim victory over sony and nintendo.

Just like MS persevered on the RROD crisis and fixed the probl...I mean extended the warranty after a couple years.
Just like they made you buy a $100 wireless adapter that came in a $129 DS LITE and are only NOW putting it in free? I wish they had a $130 wireless network adapter, maybe then they'd throw in a fully functional dual-screened wifi-enabled Handheld gaming system attached to it!
In order for kinect to sell they have to get the new people to spend $449.99 + games. The wii was $249 + games. Which is an easier sell?

Or do you be trollin'?

Lol, Microsoft is just trolling people.

It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

150ms is just painful for any known PC-gamer. It's game-breaking and when they claim the lag is not an issue, they are the greatest bullshitters on the world. IT IS an issue. But of course, lets see how it works first, gimmick or something revolutionary?

"... This is due of course because the shovelware i.e. Future natal games, requires only a tenth of the processing power of the system. As such there is no delay with the natal function at all."

Straying Bullet:
It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

You now, I went on Google yesterday and searched up some Kinect hands-on previews from E3 2010. You know what I found? Largely positive previews. Were there some issues, and some complaints? Of course! But nobody could deny it was fun to play.

Secondly: As a 'hard-core' gamer, you have to remember: This isn't for you. Microsoft isn't making a secret about it: This wasn't made for hard-core gamers. It can be used for the hard-core crowd (As seen with the Forza Demo, and will be seen how it works with Fable 3), but that's not their primary intent. Not every peripheral is made for hard-core gamers, and they are the ones complaining the most! I see plenty of interested people who aren't gamers, my wife included. That is what Microsoft is looking to get into.

And, you know what? I'm totally looking forward to this. Not for controller replacement, but for controller enhancement. Not to replace my controller, but to tag along with it, adding to the experience. The Forza demo teased it, and Fable 3 will show it (It uses Kinect and a regular controller). Plus the sports game, the Ubisoft fitness game, and the dance game all look like a blast!

Everyone is so freaking negative when they haven't even tried it yet.
Geez.

Well, I certainly won't have trouble with lag.
Because I'm not getting it! Ha! Haha. I'm so witty.

iLikeHippos:
... I'm not buying that for 60$..
Or 759 sek (kr). No matter what name you put on it.
... I'd have to say, "Sex machine" would kind of lure me though.

I mean, sensor controls are cool until they start to lag in multiplayer, making the attacks come even MORE behind schedule. It's bad enough as it is!

Well... I stand corrected than!
Had to post this for my own good.

Baby Tea:

You now, I went on Google yesterday and searched up some Kinect hands-on previews from E3 2010. You know what I found? Largely positive previews. Were there some issues, and some complaints? Of course! But nobody could deny it was fun to play.

Secondly: As a 'hard-core' gamer, you have to remember: This isn't for you. Microsoft isn't making a secret about it: This wasn't made for hard-core gamers. It can be used for the hard-core crowd (As seen with the Forza Demo, and will be seen how it works with Fable 3), but that's not their primary intent. Not every peripheral is made for hard-core gamers, and they are the ones complaining the most! I see plenty of interested people who aren't gamers, my wife included. That is what Microsoft is looking to get into.

And, you know what? I'm totally looking forward to this. Not for controller replacement, but for controller enhancement. Not to replace my controller, but to tag along with it, adding to the experience. The Forza demo teased it, and Fable 3 will show it (It uses Kinect and a regular controller). Plus the sports game, the Ubisoft fitness game, and the dance game all look like a blast!

Everyone is so freaking negative when they haven't even tried it yet.
Geez.

Posts like this makes me less ashamed to be a gamer. Thank you sir.

It seems "hardcore" gamers these days only bitch and moan about new things. Kinect will surely start off as a "casual" minigame driven device, but who knows what it will turn into? Because it doesn't have an actual controller component, it can be used with your precious controller as well. This is something "hardcore" gamers seem to forget.
I am waiting to heard the official price though. I'm not made of money. But if they also announce a Black and White game then I'll buy it no matter what it costs.

Straying Bullet:
Lol, Microsoft is just trolling people.

It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

150ms is just painful for any known PC-gamer. It's game-breaking and when they claim the lag is not an issue, they are the greatest bullshitters on the world. IT IS an issue. But of course, lets see how it works first, gimmick or something revolutionary?

actually to the console market it isn't that bad

Burnout Paradise 67ms
BioShock (frame-locked) 133ms
BioShock (unlocked) as low as 67ms
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 67ms-84ms
Call of Duty: World at War 67ms-100ms
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood 100ms
Forza Motorsport 2 67ms
Geometry Wars 2 67ms
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith 67ms
Grand Theft Auto IV 133ms-200ms
Halo 3 100ms-150ms
Left 4 Dead 100ms-133ms
LEGO Batman 133ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
Street Fighter IV 67ms
Soul Calibur IV 67ms-84ms
Unreal Tournament 3 100ms-133ms
X-Men Origins: Wolverine 133ms

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article?page=3

100-150ms in Halo 3 and none of those result take into account the lag introduced by LCD/plasma screens having to upscale the images to 1080p

In-game latency, or the level of response in our controls, is one of the most crucial elements in game-making, not just in the here and now, but for the future too. It's fair to say that players today have become conditioned to what the truly hardcore PC gamers would consider to be almost unacceptably high levels of latency to the point where cloud gaming services such as OnLive and Gaikai rely heavily upon it.

The average videogame runs at 30FPS, and appears to have an average lag in the region of 133ms. On top of that is additional delay from the display itself, bringing the overall latency to around 166ms. Assuming that the most ultra-PC gaming set-up has a latency less than one third of that, this is good news for cloud gaming in that there's a good 80ms or so window for game video to be transmitted from client to server.

But in the meantime, while overall "pings" between console and gamer remain rather high, the bottom line seems to be that players are now used to it, to the point where developers - like Infinity Ward - centred on getting the very lowest possible latencies are using that to give their games an edge over the competition. Call of Duty's ultra-crisp response is one of the key reasons why it's a cut above its rivals, and it's a core part of a gameplay package that will once again top the charts this Christmas

Baby Tea:

Straying Bullet:
It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

You now, I went on Google yesterday and searched up some Kinect hands-on previews from E3 2010. You know what I found? Largely positive previews. Were there some issues, and some complaints? Of course! But nobody could deny it was fun to play.

Secondly: As a 'hard-core' gamer, you have to remember: This isn't for you. Microsoft isn't making a secret about it: This wasn't made for hard-core gamers. It can be used for the hard-core crowd (As seen with the Forza Demo, and will be seen how it works with Fable 3), but that's not their primary intent. Not every peripheral is made for hard-core gamers, and they are the ones complaining the most! I see plenty of interested people who aren't gamers, my wife included. That is what Microsoft is looking to get into.

And, you know what? I'm totally looking forward to this. Not for controller replacement, but for controller enhancement. Not to replace my controller, but to tag along with it, adding to the experience. The Forza demo teased it, and Fable 3 will show it (It uses Kinect and a regular controller). Plus the sports game, the Ubisoft fitness game, and the dance game all look like a blast!

Everyone is so freaking negative when they haven't even tried it yet.
Geez.

You've said what I wanted to say...but actually managed to figure out how to put it into words.

It's not made for us. Oddly, the only real concern I have with Kinect is the set up...I sit 2 feet away from my TV, since it's right next to my bed. How will I set it up to use it, if I get it? I can't. There's not enough room! I'll have to turn my TV...And use the little open area at the foot of my bed. ARGH.

Not everyone plays games in a giant, open living room...Note to Microsoft.

The Wii works well enough sitting down, though.

Well, since Move is basically the Wii...That should work fine sitting down, too.

Its not really good for long time gameing is it? Can only be good for sports games really, can't really play games like Oblivion on it can you?

OP: 10 quid on it laging

Lag isnt something I was worried about...but...its nice to know none the less.

Just give us some proper games for us to care about!

Yeah, because if the lag was too much and the game sucked, I'd like so totally tell you.

I'm going to reserve judgement until, well I'm not interested anyway since my mouse is already the best input device so far.

hazabaza1:
Well, I certainly won't have trouble with lag.
Because I'm not getting it! Ha! Haha. I'm so witty.

hahaha. I couldn't put it better myself.

Baby Tea:

Straying Bullet:
It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

You now, I went on Google yesterday and searched up some Kinect hands-on previews from E3 2010. You know what I found? Largely positive previews. Were there some issues, and some complaints? Of course! But nobody could deny it was fun to play.

Secondly: As a 'hard-core' gamer, you have to remember: This isn't for you. Microsoft isn't making a secret about it: This wasn't made for hard-core gamers. It can be used for the hard-core crowd (As seen with the Forza Demo, and will be seen how it works with Fable 3), but that's not their primary intent. Not every peripheral is made for hard-core gamers, and they are the ones complaining the most! I see plenty of interested people who aren't gamers, my wife included. That is what Microsoft is looking to get into.

And, you know what? I'm totally looking forward to this. Not for controller replacement, but for controller enhancement. Not to replace my controller, but to tag along with it, adding to the experience. The Forza demo teased it, and Fable 3 will show it (It uses Kinect and a regular controller). Plus the sports game, the Ubisoft fitness game, and the dance game all look like a blast!

Everyone is so freaking negative when they haven't even tried it yet.
Geez.

Oh, I commented before how my younger sisters and such were overjoyed to see that tiger infront of the TV, I admit, it was fun to see that. But it is going to be fun for how long?

Also, it's quite sad you quoted only a portion of it, if you read the last paragraph I said I would wait out how it will turn out. I might be the biggest shouter on the planet, but I reserve my Final judgement when the product is out. Unless it's a 150 price tag, I would just discard it right away or try it out my friends.

So far the impression and the words "Wii Shovelware" comes in mind and with good justified reasons.

Logan Westbrook:

According to Burton, the lag on Kinect Sports is set at 150ms, which I must admit seems a little high to the PC gamer in me, but must be quite reasonable when you're actually playing the game.

image
FFFFFFFFF-FFF-FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!

That is the EXACT SAME LAG as Killzone 2 had... a game that is roundly criticised has having the worst lag in recent gaming history. Many HDTVs screen have their own lag of about 50-70milliseconds... that adds up to 1/5th of a second lag, that is WAY TOO DAMN MUCH for games that are supposed to be about fluid and responsive movement!!!

ESPECIALLY RHYTHM GAMES, like Dance Central... a game I formerly had great interest in.

And is the 150ms the lag JUST for the peripheral? is the lag of the graphics rendering added on top? Holy crap, this is bad. Laggy Multiplayer - likely P2P based - will be unbearable.

Baby Tea:

Straying Bullet:
It's so sad they are considering themselves hotshots whilst they are failing hardcore. Sure, Kinect seems amazing for Dashboard intergration but for gaming itself. Hell no.

You now, I went on Google yesterday and searched up some Kinect hands-on previews from E3 2010. You know what I found? Largely positive previews. Were there some issues, and some complaints? Of course! But nobody could deny it was fun to play.

Secondly: As a 'hard-core' gamer, you have to remember: This isn't for you. Microsoft isn't making a secret about it: This wasn't made for hard-core gamers. It can be used for the hard-core crowd (As seen with the Forza Demo, and will be seen how it works with Fable 3), but that's not their primary intent. Not every peripheral is made for hard-core gamers, and they are the ones complaining the most! I see plenty of interested people who aren't gamers, my wife included. That is what Microsoft is looking to get into.

The problem is up till now the Xbox 360 has been almost entirely targeted at a hardcore audience.

If this IS for the casual audience (who likely don't have a 360) the asking price is (likely) going to be VERY large:

New Xbox 360 = $300
Kinect (100:1 bet) = $150
Gold Membership = $50

That's $500! The "Hardcore" may buy gaming PCs and consoles with all peripherals for that much but come on... the Wii sold in 2006 at half that price of $250. Still they are undercutting them even PS3's Move Bundle at $400.

I am convinced the Xbox 360 is not going for the same market as Wii, rather appeal to the Casual gaming in the hardcore users... the same people who play Guitar Hero and Rock Band and other rhythm games. They are the target of games like Dance Central from the same developers, Harmonix.

I can see those "Xbot" frat guys using Kinect to "get in shape" whereas Wii Fit went with the more - how do I put this - "less hardcore" zen-like Yoga exercises, something that goes well with Ikea furniture. No, it Kinect is going to have any success it's going to capitalise on the aims of douchebag Xbox Live users.

It's just a matter of time before there is a weight training Kinect game, an online leaderboard of pushups or other callisthenics, counted by the software and recorded as video so cheaters won't last long.

I mean Microsoft has made a deal* with ESPN, ultimate in manliness channel, you won't find yoga on there, actually, manly is unfair as loads of totally straight women apparently watch ESPN. It's just a serious channel about sweating, competition, conflict and extreme shit. Hardcore.

I think that is what Kinect could be, more casual, but in the sense that competitive sports are more casual.

(*the deal is suspect, apparently in the USA only Xbox users who get their internet from ComCast can get the service.)

Georgie_Leech:
First, three demerits for copying the Wii BLATANTLY. At least give it a marginally more creative name.

Ten more demerits for having more lag than said copied game as well. At least do better than the "prototype" technology used years ago.

Everyone wants motion controls. We all joke about it, but each console has their own set of motion controls and game. WE joke how the Move is a Wiimote, but it it supposed to be different.
Hopefully these new technologies will reach the 'hardcore' markets.

Treblaine:

The problem is up till now the Xbox 360 has been almost entirely targeted at a hardcore audience.

If this IS for the casual audience (who likely don't have a 360) the asking price is (likely) going to be VERY large:

New Xbox 360 = $300
Kinect (100:1 bet) = $150
Gold Membership = $50

That's $500! The "Hardcore" may buy gaming PCs and consoles with all peripherals for that much but come on... the Wii sold in 2006 at half that price of $250. Still they are undercutting them even PS3's Move Bundle at $400.

Ok, first of all, the 360 bundle which includes Kinect will, if the 'leaks' and rumors are true, be $400.
Secondly, you don't need LIVE gold for that. So cut that price right out.
Third, the Kinect does two player out of the box. If someone is getting a PS3 with Move in the hopes of playing an active game with their friends or something, it'll be an extra $80 for another Move-wand and Move-chuck. That's $480. Kinect is cheaper. Even if two player isn't in mind, they are the same price.

Fourth, think about it like this: People want to get a house-hold gaming system that everyone can play. From teenager Jimmy to Jimmy's younger sister Stacy. A Wii might appeal to Stacy, but not so much to Jimmy who likes Gears and Halo. Kinect allows for Stacy to play games she likes, and Jimmy to play his.

Or, if you consider the average age of gamers being around 30, now these parents who game can still play the games they want, while letting their kids play something a bit more age appropriate. If I had kids, this is absolutely something I'd be looking at for my 360. Incidentally, I'm looking at it anyways, since I have a pile of nieces and nephews! Plus my wife isn't huge into gaming, but something like this would be great for her! As well as my sisters, and even my mom!

You're absolutely right that the 360 has been marketed to the 'hard-core'. They've got a large and great fan-base in that department. Now, they want to branch out a bit! Those 'hard-core' gamers have friends who don't play games, or kids, or have brothers and sisters who aren't into games! And now there is something to get them involved. Way back in the day, Microsoft said they wanted to make a console that would be the center of entertainment for the home. And slowly, but surely, they are making those steps! Kinect is one of those steps.

I am convinced that the Kinect can operate in conjunction with a regular controller in creative ways to 'appeal' to the hard-core, but the target market is obvious: Casual players. The younger siblings of current Xbox owners. The kids of parent gamers. Every hands-on preview I've read says how fun it is. Of course there will be issues, and probably even 'shovelware' (Though I can't understand why that gets people mad, since you aren't forced to buy a thing), but it works, and it's fun.

Interesting, considering a great many folks with hands-on time are saying exactly the opposite, that there is lag. Wonder who I'm going to believe? One of MS' bed buddies, or someone who has no affiliation with them at all.

Daedalus1942:
Rare? As in Rare Ware? wow... they have officially been raped.
Rare are creating shovelware. Never thought I'd see the day!

Heh...the irony.

You do realize that Rare programmed a great deal of shovelware titles for the original NES, right?
I won't blame you or anyone else though; people mostly remember Battletoads.

Oh Rare... How could you do this? Tell me it isn't true. Rare, the creators of the legendary Banjo-Kazooie and Goldeneye are creating Kinect shovelware!

*runs off crying*

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