| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
It's one thing to recognize Mario's dual appeal. It's another thing entirely to replicate it. We'll see... The thing is, Kinect is an add-on designed at casual gamers. So, sure, the market they're looking at would jump at the Kinect. But are they going to jump at the 360 at the same time? Probably not. I PRONOUNCE DOOM UPON YOU, MICROSOFT! | |
The problem here is that Mario is, you know, actually good. Regardless of the themes and characters Mario has tight, responsive and at times challenging gameplay. That's what hardcore gamers respond to. Kinect has to this point shown none of that and, if it does somehow exist, one has to wonder why MS hasn't shown it yet. | |
So, they're trying to make games that appeal to both the "casual" and the "hardcore" market. Well, so far all I've seen are some poor gimmicky games. I really hope Kinect is good, as I think it could be interesting, but it will only be worthwhile if there are some good games on it. | |
Hey, Microsoft, you might want to ask why Super Mario Bros. is a core game? The answer is - it requires dedication, finesse, skills. | |
What he's saying may be right, but the difference right now is that Mario is fun to play. I don't think you should compare your games to Mario before you've even proved it's fun. | |
Thing is, alot of people already own a 360. For instance, my household has 2, one that functions as a DVD player in the living room, and one for myself in my room. The living room one is used for games once ina great while, and this might make it get used more. | |
So long as Microsoft remembers that this is a peripheral and not a console all it's own, they should be fine. The XBOX lives on the knowledge that people who buy the system do not want motion controls when they play their games. Yeah, the Wii has games that don't use motion controls, but given that the system was built around them, I find it funny when games that don't use those controls as much do so much better. Still, if developers wish to use Natal, because Kinect sounds really weird, to enhance their games, I'll gladly buy it. | |
Except that it isn't. Despite him being a phenomenal idiot trying to define games based on being 'casual' or 'core', I get his point. I couldn't disagree more. Nintendo is and was always smart enough not to delve into this stupid debate of hardcore versus grannies and just released competent and fun games. Maybe Microsoft should do the same. | |
It's going to be difficult to have a casual experience of being able to jump right in and enjoy while fiddling with motion controls. Perhaps he'll be right in the end, but I have my doubts. | |
While he is almost %100 wrong, I will agree with him that if today somebody made a game about plumbers jumping on turtles and going through pipes people would start complaining that it's not a "Hardcore" title where you see headshots and fountains of blood every five seconds. What a sad situation we've gotten ourselves into... | |
Points for theory, but I'm skeptical of execution. The idea is right. You can certainly make games that have the accessibility of casual games, along with the depth of a "Core" game (It's not perfect, but that is a MUCH better term then "Hardcore"). A Game that does this is actually even more likely to be a gaming classic. And Nintendo isn't the only one to do this: Arguably, Halo has a similar dual appeal, it just tackles a subject matter that is associated only with Core games, and Plants versus Zombies has the appeal to both casual and core gamers. Plus, looking back on the pre-3d era, I think a lot of core games look pretty casual. So philosophically, they are on the right track. A track that runs into one little snag... This is the first good thing Ive heard about Kinect. Everything about Kinect screams shovelware to me. It just seems gimmicky, and their game lineup is not very inspiring. Also, it is quite expensive. Contrast with the cheaper Move, which appears to be bringing the motion controls to actual "Core" games. Sure, it's still on the shaky beginning of a new peripheral, but they seem to have a place to go. Maybe I'm wrong, but it keeps sounding like while The Wii is First-in-line-ing their problems away, and Move is designing and innovating their problems away, Kinect is trying to Market their problems away. | |
I feel bad for posting this after all of your long, well thought out posts. But bs. | |
Saying that Kinect games are like Super Mario Bros. is like me saying I am like Bryan Hitch. There may be one thing in common, but everything else is drastically different. Mario is a (fun) game. Kinect is a (not-so-fun) gimmick. | |
... God I love how delusional everyone gets around e3. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. The kinest/move is targeting a group of people that already have a wii, aren't impressed by shiny graphics, and will in a lot of cases, not understand why their kinest/move doesn't work with their wii. Of course, if the impossible happens, and both catch on, this red headed stepchild of a generation will just continue, when what it desperately needs is to be put out of it's misery. | |
In my head I now consider Natal and Kinect different things. Natal was going to be this $50 motion sensor with so much potential to change the way we game, and add new layers making us immerse more. Like Natal tracking your movements to how you want your executions to look like when you press Y in gears of war, or the creation of new exiciting games pushing the creative boundaries, where innovation would be able to run free. Kinect is just an expensive Wii, a very expensive wii if you don't have the xbox. I see this being a massive flop, no ones wants to spend that much money and Microsofts marketing team are not good enough, not nearly good enough to sell this. | |
Well, I dunno about whether we'd question Mario if he came out today... Like, think about LittleBigPlanet - that was as cutesy and casual-looking as they come, yet the hardcore audience embraced it because it was good and unique. If Kinect Adventure's (and other such games) aren't good... well, we won't accept them now, will we? Cause so far a lot of them are looking like just a compilation of party games, frankly. | |
I don't think they were inspired by Nintendo at all. I am sure it came about through 'parallel research'. | |
Well, maybe if Kinect has tight controls and the games have well-designed levels. I somehow highly doubt it has tight controls though. Also, we already went over this with the goddamn Eye Toy. I fail to see how it is any different. | |
You stole my post :( But seriously though, LBP proved it's not about the art direction it's about the gameplay. If your game is well made and fun to play, the "core" audience will enjoy it. | |
Here is how I see it: | |
Any respect I was struggling to cling onto about Kinect is severely damaged by a statement like "it's like one of the most important games in history". I'm not sure how many people managed to stay awake through Microsoft's E3 conference, but anyone who did saw that Kinect Adventures was laggy, bland and controlled about as precisely as surgery with a shotgun. | |
Mario is more hardcore than casual. Some levels get very difficult after a while. However, I'm much happier with platformer/TPS games like Ratchet and Clank because, you know, they have personality. | |
I think it's possible, but not with full-body motion controls. No matter what way you look at it, each and every one of those games is gonna end up with you flailing around the living room. | |
That's an interesting thing to say, but like I've said, we'll have to wait and see. | |
Really. He compared Kinetic to Mario Bros. One of the, if not most, Revolutionary games of all time and he didn't burst into laughter to say hes kidding? No. Doesn't work sorry. Not only that but Saying Kinetic Is a casual and core Device is stupid. Kinetic Is pure Anus. Not even used for gaming lol. Just anus. I don't understand why they keep bringing up "Core" and "Casual" gamers. Seriously. Anyone with half a brain would know a Gamer is a gamer and they will play games they like despite media or Producer. Gamers Game. The only way i can Fathom their stupidity and lack of knowledge of their own demographic is if they Break it into 2 Categories. Those Who play Games like Halo 3 and Gears Only to Show their KDR and Insult others and those who Play but care nothing about their KDR and are there to have fun. Hardcore being the losers who think KDR will get them somewhere in this world and casual being awesome people lol. | |
There's something that seems rather unclean about that comparison. And I still don't see how they are hoping to draw a bigger crowd into it with a gimmick peripheral, but it does happen. I just don't feel it likely. | |
Nintendo's been making games with dual appeal for around 30 years. How many first party games has Microsoft even made? I'm sensing some unfulfilled promises in Microsoft's future... | |
Nothing I've seen for Kinect so far looks remotely appealing for hardcore (proper) gamers. | |
Comparing Super Mario Bros. to Kinect? That's like claiming the Xbox 360 ISN'T a chunk of non-functioning plastic! | |
didn't Mario get most of his popularity after Super Mario Brothers 3 release. so the Kinect won't be popular til Kinect 3? and since they own the Halo series why not make Super Chief 3 for the Kinect. | |
Personally I prefer to give people who claim the Mario franchise are casual games the Purple Coin Toy Time Galaxy Challenge, my how their opinions change so drastically | |
*sigh* This sort of thinking? It's why Kinect is in trouble even before launch. See, Move's positioning makes sense to me. It's got an eye for general purpose titles, but it's also being employed for outright brawlers and tactical shooters. It's the movement control, one might say, aimed out of the box at drawing in the core audience in addition to potentially importing some of the casual family audience. Kinect, on the other hand, sees poised expressly to tackle the casuals. The family. The young gamers. This is doomed to fail because: A) It ignore their core customer base, which is far from casual, which means this new base needs to buy its way in from the ground floor with a new console AND Kinect. B) It means going toe to toe with Nintendo who own and have owned that market share, but with no real backdoor to the strategy. Can Kinect do more indepth gameplay then, well, what we got out of the Eyetoy's games? If not, Wii wins there as well; it can do rail shooters, platform games, racing titles, sports titles, fighting games, RPGs... Now, mind, having not had hands-on experience with the unit, I can't claim Kinect doesn't have the potential for all of these things. But by the sound of it, it's sorely lacking the capabilities to pull these genres off. Purely hands-off controls sound good to an extent, but if it means massive chunks of the gaming world are closed off to it, your library is going to look like crap. And that at the end of the day is what sells consoles and their related control units like the Kinect; the games. If they can't offer something unique, AND they can't offer genres with built-in audiences amongst the core demographics, you're left trying to compete directly in Nintendo's airspace. | |
If Kinect was free and bundled with the 360, I might be inclined to buy one again. Too bad Sony hasn't done something like this with their Eye systems. being able to control my TV with voice commands is a really good idea. I like the science future of Star Trek. voice commands and 3D (eventually holodeck) are the future. | |
Don't. You. Fucking. Dare. Super Mario Bros. is easily one of the greatest and most innovative games of all time. Until the Kinect sells 40,000,000 copies and has been universally loved for decades, you're not allowed to compare. What have we seen of Kinect so far? Some games that will be fun for those who don't know how to hold a video game controller. Within 1 second of turning on the Nintendo Entertainment System, every player who bought the Super Mario Bros. bundle loved the game. Kinect has had weeks to make a better first impression, and it's failed completely. | |
| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
Extra Punctuation
MovieBob: Intermission
Experienced Points
First Person
Exploding Barrels
Miracle of Sound: Encore
Special Attack
Loading Time
Backchat
Drinking Games
Escape to the Movies
Escapecraft
Escapist News Wrap - Premium
Escapist Podcast
Feed Dump
GinxTV
Jimquisition
LoadingReadyRun
Mahalo
Meatbag and Co
Media Sandwich
Miracle of Sound
No Right Answer
Pro-Gamer Gauntlet
Reviews
Space Janitors
Tales from the Table
The Big Picture
The Escapist Presents
The Retro Show
Trailers
Unskippable
Zero Punctuation
Max Payne 3 Review
Company of Heroes 2
XCOM Enemy Unknown
Black Ops 2
Diablo 3 Review
TERA Review
Firefall Beta Preview
Starhawk Review
Critical Miss
Name Game
Microsoft: Kinect Is Like Super Mario Bros.
The Wii no doubt inspired Microsoft to develop Kinect, and Nintendo's most popular videogame series has also inspired Kinect's games.
Nintendo has had a bit of success over the past few years with the Wii, so it's not surprising that both Sony and Microsoft are now trying to mimic the house of Mario to earn bigger profits for themselves. Microsoft Kinect creative director Kudo Tsunoda has even gone so far as to compare Kinect's games directly to Super Mario Bros..
Talking to Videogamer, the often sunglasses-adorned Tsunoda said: "If you think about a game like Mario Bros., would you say Mario Bros. is a core or casual game? That's exactly what we're doing with the Kinect products."
Though Kinect's current lineup seems to appeal purely to the casual crowd, Tsunoda would have us believe that games such as Kinect Adventures have both casual and core appeal. "If you look at River Rush, from Kinect Adventures, that in a lot of ways is like a platformer game," he said. "It's all the same things you see in platformer games. The way you summed up how you would feel about Mario Bros. is exactly the way we look at the Kinect games. There's the core gaming depth and skills, and the casual approachability that lets you get into it and play it right away."
"If you say core, it really doesn't mean it's an action game where you're shooting people. And that's what it is. If I came to you today and I was like, hey, we're going unveil this new game: it's a plumber, and you're going to be going through pipes, and you're going to be jumping on turtles, you'd be asking the exact same questions that you're asking about the Kinect experiences."
Unfortunately, most of us haven't been able to play Kinect yet, so Tsunoda could be right about Kinect's games. However, Nintendo has perfected the dual appeal formula that we see in games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii over decades. For Microsoft to replicate it with Kinect, they have to have come up with some really great stuff.
Permalink