Rumor: Microsoft Killed PC/Xbox Cross Platform Play

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

Ironic Pirate:
But in fast paced games, console gamers would have a mobility advantage, as WASD isn't all that great for movement...

WASD is actually better, we can switch from strafing left to strafing right far faster since we switch which button is depressed rather than moving a stick. May be a very small benefit but the stick is a slight hindrance due to size. WASD is better for movement in this regards. Sure, its limited to 9 directions, but the speed we can shift it, along with how quickly PC players can adjust their aim means they're still faster at movement and aim. Plus, even though the tactic would never be useful, we can circle strafe side step bunny hop crouch jump while reloading and firing all at the same time without contorting our hands at all :D

I see a lot of posts saying access to the console, mods, and then the hacking argument against PC. The thing is, you're not allowed to use any console commands that give you an advantage in a game (unless you're the admin and you're a jerk but you don't encounter many of those, often they'll give everyone the bonus for fun), mods need to be played on servers running that mod, and hackers are banned by admins as soon as they start zipping around a million miles per hour or you see their aim snap to people (its really obvious). These are not problems you face when you load up TF2 or Battlefield or any other game you play since PC gamers can self monitor the game unlike consoles and individual servers can deal with people who glitch or hack.

CmdrGoob:

Ironic Pirate:
But in fast paced games, console gamers would have a mobility advantage, as WASD isn't all that great for movement...

Huh.


And yet those PC gamers seem to move so fast...

Even older games required good agility from PC players

I grew up on FPS for PC, so naturally I feel I am at least a little biased towards PC. That being said I only own MW2 for xbox, and although I usually rank top in most lobbies, I still feel frustrated in some instances. Mainly, mouse acceleration is a million times better than joystick acceleration, it's hard to explain but in PC when your aim is off by a few pixels, you can move your mouse to fix the aim, but I feel most the time on console I end up moving my character to the left/right to fix my aim because the joystick is just too clumsy...

YAY!

I guess now PC vs Console threads can now die in peace while knowing who is the true master race

.......So I would at least think....

Okay, what I meant by that, is that the analog stick is slightly more natural to movement, it's an "analog" to moving. The people in the videos are moving fast, yes, I realize that. I'm not much of a PC gamer, and when I've seen friends play it they tended to get stuck on corners a bit more.

I thought that meant this was a bit more common then it apparently was, and made a post based on that. Apparently my friends just suck, or maybe that game did.

No hard feelings, right?

Antiparticle:

Logan Westbrook:
Sood sources claim that the Microsoft pitted the best console players using control pads against "mediocre" PC gamers with mice and keyboards and found that the console players were "destroyed every time."

This seems highly unlikely to me. But it'll be music to the ears of the PC elitists of course...

I can't really comment on the veracity of this fellow's statements, or whether there would have been a PC renaissance had cross-platform connectivity remained on the table, but the disparity between the best console FPS players vs mediocre PC FPS players has been demonstrated before - staff from Official X-Box magazine challenged staff members of PC Gamer to a Halo competition.

Now Halo isn't cross-platform interactive, but since there was a PC port and it allowed you to plug in and use the X-Box controller, they could essentially simulate the console vs PC experience, while also eliminating any niggling doubt about hardware discrepancies, as the machines themselves were identical and only the control method differed. Using that setup, the team of extremely experienced Halo players from X-Box Magazine, who knew the maps in and out and played Halo Deathmatch all the time... were handily trounced by a team consisting of Halo newbies, it was a one-sided pouncing match for the folks using mice.

Gamepads are simply an inferior control option when the title in consideration is an FPS - developers program in all sorts of behind the scenes "cheats" to counterbalance how analog sticks are a terrible option for precisely aiming at things, and even if the game presents you with options to turn aiming assistance off it will still leave the rest of the tricks it's using to counterbalance your shitty aim in place - the alternative is a game that is basically unplayable and no fun for anyone.

Which is fine really, consoles are an active market segment and FPS titles are quite popular on consoles, irrespective of their interfaces not really being well designed to play them. But when you pit people who have mastered the art of distance running by walking on their hands against regular old marathon runners who use their legs for the purpose of locomotion, only a crazy person would conclude that running along by balancing on your hands upside down is going to put you at an advantage against people running normally - you're going to lose, badly.

Which is why more FPS games aren't made that let people on the PC compete with people on the X-Box, and why the ones that have employed coding tricks to try and 'gimp' the PC players - it's the only way to (somewhat) level the playing field if one side is stuck using an analog stick to aim - there's a good reason we don't all have joysticks sitting to one side of our keyboards instead of mice.

It does make sense, it is much easier to move and shoot on the PC then the Xbox, making it moving targets against standing still targets.

Ironic Pirate:

Okay, what I meant by that, is that the analog stick is slightly more natural to movement, it's an "analog" to moving. The people in the videos are moving fast, yes, I realize that. I'm not much of a PC gamer, and when I've seen friends play it they tended to get stuck on corners a bit more.

I thought that meant this was a bit more common then it apparently was, and made a post based on that. Apparently my friends just suck, or maybe that game did.

No hard feelings, right?

lol no hard feelings at all, i see how you gained that perspective. but yeah, at least in my experience, you can get much more natural movements with the combination of the mouse and the WASD keys. naturally it takes them both, just like dual analog sticks, but it certainly feels and looks much more natural to me, anyway. ultimately it's preference, and what works best for the individual, but this is what works for me.

Logan Westbrook:
Microsoft pitted the best console players using control pads against "mediocre" PC gamers with mice and keyboards and found that the console players were "destroyed every time." It was apparently so bad, he wrote, that cross-platform play would have been an embarrassment to the Xbox team.

Just to be clear, that's "destroyed" as in "taking a righteous ass-kicking up one side and down the other," not "destroyed" as in "oops, my shoddily-constructed game console has broken and those funny little lights are flashing at me again," right?

There's a lot of potential for confusion here and I just want to make sure we're all up to speed.

Andy Chalk:

Logan Westbrook:
Microsoft pitted the best console players using control pads against "mediocre" PC gamers with mice and keyboards and found that the console players were "destroyed every time." It was apparently so bad, he wrote, that cross-platform play would have been an embarrassment to the Xbox team.

Just to be clear, that's "destroyed" as in "taking a righteous ass-kicking up one side and down the other," not "destroyed" as in "oops, my shoddily-constructed game console has broken and those funny little lights are flashing at me again," right?

There's a lot of potential for confusion here and I just want to make sure we're all up to speed.

I...I really shouldn't...

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

So sorry...I'm personally too nice a guy to get into the whole 'PC master race' thing and would prefer to say 'each to his own' anytime I could...and I know others might see this as some form of kissing ass or such...

...but I don't care about preceptions at this point. That was...*head-desks in laughter-induced tears*

There was never a golden age of PC gaming, at least no more than there is today. (peak of 2.3 million Steam users every day, against peak 2.2 million Xbox Live Gold users)

Home consoles have ALWAYS been more popular in seer numbers at least as they are simply easier to market and in fact their entire business model is based around getting the most number of units out there.

PC gaming practically by it's definition is for smaller, niche market and offering better performance. Just like surround-sound, it's hard to set up and can get very expensive (if you don't buy smart) though it is still better than plain old built in stereo-speakers/set-standard-consoles.

Ironic Pirate:
But in fast paced games, console gamers would have a mobility advantage, as WASD isn't all that great for movement...

Really? Sure that is an inherent thing or rather a matter of familiarity with one or another.

For zig-zagging it is easy to hold-W and alternate tapping between A and D. You have three fine fingers for movement rather than 1 thumb. Circle strafing too is very easy with WASD and though have a thumb ALWAYS on space bar ready to jump, and a pinkie ALWAYS ready to sprint/crouch.

Take a look at this example:

This IS the PC version of MW2, this player sprints and while holding-W (run forward) but by very quickly flicking the mouse left-to-right this is a very fast zig-zag that even head on is very hard to hit. And then he face-knife stabs 'em. You just can't change directions as quick with a thumbstick and simultaneously have in any way workable stick-sensitivity.

An analogue stick only really has an advantage with racing games where you need very subtle and continuous adjustments to turning... but whether Console or PC you are best to get an actual wheel and pedals.

That's why I don't play shooters on consoles. Sure, some people have freakish precision reflexes in their thumbs. Whatever. I'm not one of them and don't aspire to be. I do, however, have precision reflexes with a mouse. I'm not saying that the PC is better than consoles. I'm saying that I am better on the PC than I would be on a console.

This is basically why I stopped buying console FPS's if they were on PC too. Aiming is just too annoying on a gamepad.

If you're actually holding a gun, you would be able to jerk your arm as fast as you want (to a certain extent) to the exact location you need. The mouse best simulates that over a thumbstick.

more proof of the "pc master race", as mr yahtzee so eloquently puts it :D

Ironic Pirate:
But in fast paced games, console gamers would have a mobility advantage, as WASD isn't all that great for movement...

Mirror's Edge blows that out of the water, it was exponentially better on the PC then the consoles.

Besides, PC's do allow for controller input.

EDIT: Oh, I see you've admitted defeat. All right, then.

Ironic Pirate:

Okay, what I meant by that, is that the analog stick is slightly more natural to movement, it's an "analog" to moving. The people in the videos are moving fast, yes, I realize that. I'm not much of a PC gamer, and when I've seen friends play it they tended to get stuck on corners a bit more.

I thought that meant this was a bit more common then it apparently was, and made a post based on that. Apparently my friends just suck, or maybe that game did.

No hard feelings, right?

I'll give you that, if have gotten stuck on corners on PC quite more often than on consoles (usually back peddling and I can't just "jiggle" around the door frame), but even though I started as a console gamer I just find mouse-look so much more natural than analogue look. With analogue-stick look I feel like I'm controlling an Anti-aircraft gun rather than the personal weapons an actual person or living creature.

I would be fine if all console games I played a robot or some other obviously mechanical persona (like a helicopter's motorised gun turret) but often I'm cast as a space marine or special forces soldier. Even Tomb Raider I rather play with Mouse + keyboard, just to look around naturally with the mouse.

But overall I find WASD on a keyboard just has too many tricks up it's sleeve for me to actually prefer a stick+mouse option, even if it was available.

PC => 1
XBAWX => 0

Had to say it

Treblaine:
There was never a golden age of PC gaming, at least no more than there is today. (peak of 2.3 million Steam users every day, against peak 2.2 million Xbox Live Gold users)

Home consoles have ALWAYS been more popular in seer numbers at least as they are simply easier to market and in fact their entire business model is based around getting the most number of units out there.

PC gaming practically by it's definition is for smaller, niche market and offering better performance. Just like surround-sound, it's hard to set up and can get very expensive (if you don't buy smart) though it is still better than plain old built in stereo-speakers/set-standard-consoles.

Ironic Pirate:
But in fast paced games, console gamers would have a mobility advantage, as WASD isn't all that great for movement...

Really? Sure that is an inherent thing or rather a matter of familiarity with one or another.

For zig-zagging it is easy to hold-W and alternate tapping between A and D. You have three fine fingers for movement rather than 1 thumb. Circle strafing too is very easy with WASD and though have a thumb ALWAYS on space bar ready to jump, and a pinkie ALWAYS ready to sprint/crouch.

Take a look at this example:

This IS the PC version of MW2, this player sprints and while holding-W (run forward) but by very quickly flicking the mouse left-to-right this is a very fast zig-zag that even head on is very hard to hit. And then he face-knife stabs 'em. You just can't change directions as quick with a thumbstick and simultaneously have in any way workable stick-sensitivity.

An analogue stick only really has an advantage with racing games where you need very subtle and continuous adjustments to turning... but whether Console or PC you are best to get an actual wheel and pedals.

Yeah, I realize that now, someone else posted such a video.

My experience with PC gaming has been either my horrid attempts or watching my friends, and they always seemed to get stuck on corners more than people did with consoles. I thought that was a common problem, I guess they just weren't very good.

And I've always felt the analog stick was more intuitive. It only took up one digit, and, you know, it's an "analog" for movement.

I was wrong, though.

And yet the console kids seem to constantly be crying about wanting to use their gamepads to play every PC game ever created under the sun, which I still just don't understand.

kb+mouse > gamepad, end of story. More precise aiming, faster aiming, and I doubt you can bhop or strafe jump with a gamepad

dogstile:

vrbtny:
Yes!!! I feel proud to be a PC gamer, we are now proven (Sorta-Officially) to be better than those console playing turds(To quote Yahtzee)..

No offense(Much) to Console gmaers...

Say no offence all you like, we all know what you meant :P

I call them out on this though. Every game of shadowrun i watched my mate play he destroyed the PC players. So, exaggeration?

That.. and with Shadowrun they artifically lagged PC players, and off-set the crosshairs and aiming of people using the PC to make it harder to shoot ;)

Milky_Fresh:
Good job Logan, you feed those elitists.

Not really, but this kind of comment does :(

What about other Genres...RTS excluded. Driving games for example could have maintained the cross platform capabilities, also simulators, some RPGs, sport games, etc. I think there was anoter motive for that.

It is true that in FPS games with no artificial lagging, PC Has the advantage, imagine for a momment cross platform in TF2...most console gamers would be destroyed in seconds.

That... and also if put in the same chat room with PC gamers, console gamers might have learned of the all around superior experience that PC gaming has to offer. Even with more development efforts thrown and consoles these days, even the "good" games on consoles are mostly just throwaway crap.

Gildan Bladeborn:

Antiparticle:

Logan Westbrook:
Sood sources claim that the Microsoft pitted the best console players using control pads against "mediocre" PC gamers with mice and keyboards and found that the console players were "destroyed every time."

This seems highly unlikely to me. But it'll be music to the ears of the PC elitists of course...

I can't really comment on the veracity of this fellow's statements, or whether there would have been a PC renaissance had cross-platform connectivity remained on the table, but the disparity between the best console FPS players vs mediocre PC FPS players has been demonstrated before - staff from Official X-Box magazine challenged staff members of PC Gamer to a Halo competition.

Now Halo isn't cross-platform interactive, but since there was a PC port and it allowed you to plug in and use the X-Box controller, they could essentially simulate the console vs PC experience, while also eliminating any niggling doubt about hardware discrepancies, as the machines themselves were identical and only the control method differed. Using that setup, the team of extremely experienced Halo players from X-Box Magazine, who knew the maps in and out and played Halo Deathmatch all the time... were handily trounced by a team consisting of Halo newbies, it was a one-sided pouncing match for the folks using mice.

Gamepads are simply an inferior control option when the title in consideration is an FPS - developers program in all sorts of behind the scenes "cheats" to counterbalance how analog sticks are a terrible option for precisely aiming at things, and even if the game presents you with options to turn aiming assistance off it will still leave the rest of the tricks it's using to counterbalance your shitty aim in place - the alternative is a game that is basically unplayable and no fun for anyone.

Which is fine really, consoles are an active market segment and FPS titles are quite popular on consoles, irrespective of their interfaces not really being well designed to play them. But when you pit people who have mastered the art of distance running by walking on their hands against regular old marathon runners who use their legs for the purpose of locomotion, only a crazy person would conclude that running along by balancing on your hands upside down is going to put you at an advantage against people running normally - you're going to lose, badly.

Which is why more FPS games aren't made that let people on the PC compete with people on the X-Box, and why the ones that have employed coding tricks to try and 'gimp' the PC players - it's the only way to (somewhat) level the playing field if one side is stuck using an analog stick to aim - there's a good reason we don't all have joysticks sitting to one side of our keyboards instead of mice.

Yah, well, I still have a hard time believing the control method could make that much of a difference. If you'd tell me pro PC players could beat pro console players, fine, I'll believe that, but to say that the best console players were destroyed every time by mediocre PC players... I just don't see control method making THAT much of a difference. Unless they did something weird, such as setting the console players' controllers to the default (fairly) low sensitivity and not allowing them to raise it or something. If the console players were really pro they should have at least been able to put up a good fight.

Maybe it sucks for fps games, but cross platform play would be awesome for rpgs and co-op campaigns.

Zhukov:
Y'know what? If this is true, then I'm glad it happened.

I have sampled the madness that is XBL. I've seen the people who dwell there.

I don't think I want those people in my PC games. Errg.

Funny, I have played alot of TF2 lately on my PC. The people I play with on there are just as bad if not worse than the 360 kiddies. Cause well there older and they act like a freaking 10 year old...

Antiparticle:
If the console players were really pro they should have at least been able to put up a good fight.

Oh, I'm sure they did their best.

FPS wise I can understand though I would still prefer my couch above any destkop. Faster reaction speed or not. I don't need that.

vrbtny:
Yes!!! I feel proud to be a PC gamer, we are now proven (Sorta-Officially) to be better than those console playing turds(To quote Yahtzee)..

No offense(Much) to Console gmaers...

you say no offense put the whole post you just did was being a total elitist.

Milky_Fresh:
Good job Logan, you feed those elitists.

my thoughts exactly... This topic is going to bring a whole flame war.

Antiparticle:

Gildan Bladeborn:

Antiparticle:

Logan Westbrook:
Sood sources claim that the Microsoft pitted the best console players using control pads against "mediocre" PC gamers with mice and keyboards and found that the console players were "destroyed every time."

This seems highly unlikely to me. But it'll be music to the ears of the PC elitists of course...

I can't really comment on the veracity of this fellow's statements, or whether there would have been a PC renaissance had cross-platform connectivity remained on the table, but the disparity between the best console FPS players vs mediocre PC FPS players has been demonstrated before - staff from Official X-Box magazine challenged staff members of PC Gamer to a Halo competition.

Now Halo isn't cross-platform interactive, but since there was a PC port and it allowed you to plug in and use the X-Box controller, they could essentially simulate the console vs PC experience, while also eliminating any niggling doubt about hardware discrepancies, as the machines themselves were identical and only the control method differed. Using that setup, the team of extremely experienced Halo players from X-Box Magazine, who knew the maps in and out and played Halo Deathmatch all the time... were handily trounced by a team consisting of Halo newbies, it was a one-sided pouncing match for the folks using mice.

Gamepads are simply an inferior control option when the title in consideration is an FPS - developers program in all sorts of behind the scenes "cheats" to counterbalance how analog sticks are a terrible option for precisely aiming at things, and even if the game presents you with options to turn aiming assistance off it will still leave the rest of the tricks it's using to counterbalance your shitty aim in place - the alternative is a game that is basically unplayable and no fun for anyone.

Which is fine really, consoles are an active market segment and FPS titles are quite popular on consoles, irrespective of their interfaces not really being well designed to play them. But when you pit people who have mastered the art of distance running by walking on their hands against regular old marathon runners who use their legs for the purpose of locomotion, only a crazy person would conclude that running along by balancing on your hands upside down is going to put you at an advantage against people running normally - you're going to lose, badly.

Which is why more FPS games aren't made that let people on the PC compete with people on the X-Box, and why the ones that have employed coding tricks to try and 'gimp' the PC players - it's the only way to (somewhat) level the playing field if one side is stuck using an analog stick to aim - there's a good reason we don't all have joysticks sitting to one side of our keyboards instead of mice.

Yah, well, I still have a hard time believing the control method could make that much of a difference. If you'd tell me pro PC players could beat pro console players, fine, I'll believe that, but to say that the best console players were destroyed every time by mediocre PC players... I just don't see control method making THAT much of a difference. Unless they did something weird, such as setting the console players' controllers to the default (fairly) low sensitivity and not allowing them to raise it or something. If the console players were really pro they should have at least been able to put up a good fight.

See but thats what PC only gamers believe, they believe that it is impossible for a console gamer to win, now of course it would be harder to win, but it doesnt mean that Pro Console gamers would lose to mediocre PC playes. Seeing as it also still depends on how you play the game itself, not just what your using to play.

I agree with you.

I bet PC gamers everywhere are getting a raging boner thanks to that guy's quotes.

As has been pointed out multiple times on this topic and even for years in other discussions, yes, the PC players have an advantage in an unaltered cross platform game. Still, I'm sad they didn't explore this opportunity more.

Eliam_Dar:
What about other Genres...RTS excluded. Driving games for example could have maintained the cross platform capabilities, also simulators, some RPGs, sport games, etc.

Certainly, there are platforms where PC and Console players could be on an even playing field. I would, however, argue that there's another way it could have gone that I would like to have seen.

Take the competition between PC gamers and Console players by assigning them different characteristics. Since FPSs play so well on PC, make the foot troops in your Battlefield style game PC players. Console players, arguably, can control vehicles as well or more naturally than your average PC setup so spawn them in as drivers of tanks, transports, planes, mechs and other vehicles and roles that don't require the twitch gameplay to be competitive.

There are many other interesting ways, I'm sure, in which multiple play styles could be mixed with cross platform gameplay that haven't been explored because this initiative died. Is pitting PC and Console players head to head in the same game where one side has an obvoius advantage a bad idea? Certainly. Does that make cross platform gameplay instantly a bad idea? No, it certainly does not.

As I recall, this program was called Games for Windows, which had a nifty little box on the front of PC games to inform the gamer that they could play the game via Windows Live which could integrate with XBL, with games such as MW2. After two years or so of this idea being in place, they had only released about a dozen games that were compatible with this. Microsoft certainly didn't appear to want to throw a lot of thought into making this a more regular part of PC gaming, so really blaming either PC or console gamers isn't the point. Technical differences aside, people still would have played against each other in the PC vs. console arena for the fun of it. All this dick-waving about which is best is really a giant waste of time because the company that secures games for both platforms just didn't bring availability to all gamers as a whole. I find a lot of faults in the original argument that anyone had a distinct advantage over the other. If you spent enough time on one system or the other, it isn't unreasonable to expect you would become rather proficient at playing on said system. If you weren't any good, odds are it isn't the system holding you back but your ability to manipulate the device correctly. But I stray...

If you look in the bargain bins at your local game store that sells PC games, I'm sure you can still find some of those titles from 07 and 08. Whether or not they still work is a good question, but you can certainly try them out.

PC Gamers don't have an advantage over console gamers, they're just inherently better at video games.
That's why even a "mediocre" player can eat these so-called "experts" alive.

I like PC game mechanics a lot, but it's a huge advantage over console gamers...I wonder if any PC gamers are proud that they beat console gamers with easier and more efficient mechanics?

Akalabeth:
PC Gamers don't have an advantage over console gamers, they're just inherently better at video games.
That's why even a "mediocre" player can eat these so-called "experts" alive.

So all PC gamers are better than console gamers? Just clarifying because even though I PC game, I wouldn't make that generalization.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here