Blizzard: Valve Shouldn't Trademark DotA

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Blizzard: Valve Shouldn't Trademark DotA

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Blizzard thinks that DotA is owned by the community, not Valve.

Earlier this month, Valve announced plans to release its own version of the popular Defense of the Ancients mod called DotA 2 in 2011, and filed a trademark to own the name in August. This trademark has been challenged by some of DotA's original creators that believe nobody should have the rights to own the property. Today, Valve has another much bigger challenger in the form of Blizzard Entertainment, which doesn't think trademarking DotA is the "right thing to do."

Blizzard vice president Rob Pardo recently spoke to Eurogamer about the issue and said: "To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do." Pardo is referring to the fact that DotA originally was created using the Warcraft III map editor. In addition, this opinion is likely influenced by the recent announcement that Blizzard is creating its own form of DotA for StarCraft II.

Pardo also says he is "confused" that a completely separate company would try to trademark DotA. "Certainly, DotA came out of the Blizzard community," he added. "It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point."

If Valve were to challenge Blizzard on the use of DotA for its upcoming StarCraft II gametype, Pardo says: "Our response is that they don't own the term DotA at this point, it's something that they're filing for. Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community."

Considering how large these two companies are I would expect that Valve has already heard about Blizzard's thoughts on the matter. Unless Valve really wants to trademark DotA and keeping silent is a necessary part of that, a response is likely coming soon. To me it seems like a touchy issue, because Valve should be able to produce a professionally created version of DotA, and studios usually have to protect their investments by trademarking game names. What do you think: Should any single company be able to own the DotA name?

Source: Eurogamer

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I agree with Blizz on this, and frankly this is a bad sign for Valve to be doing this.
This is a mark against your coolness factor, Valve. Don't make me lose faith in you.

I would think that the name DotA needs to remain in the public domain. That being said, all Valve has to do to complete their trademark without interference is change the name a little bit. Like, "Defense of the Almighty," or, "Protection of the Ancients." Yea, whatever. It's not like LoL or HoN have lost any customers because of their name changes.

They shouldn't own the name, if they want to make their own version of DotA that's fine, but it's fine because it is a public name and idea.

Trademarking it just gives them the option to sue anyone who wants to make DotA variations that might 'infringe on their trademark'.

acti blizzard dont think its the right thing to do? hahahahahahhahahahaha christ..

Defense of the Ancient 2 is a dumb name to begin with.

I think the law will favor the collective of collaborators to the game more so than anyone one person or company.

We'll see.

Over all tho', I personally don't care. Not my style of RTS to begin with.

Blizzard "Dammit, we didn't get the copyright first, hey Valve, not cool".

I agree with Blizzard and furthermore, I'm not sure Valve's trademark will be able to hold up---if it came to court, wouldn't DotA's creators be able to get Valve for copyright infringement under the current terms of the DMCA and the Berne Convention?

(that was the impression that I got from Brad Templeton's essay about copyright, at least.)

meh, its kinda Hypocritical of them the way they and activision behave towards copyrights but i can see where they'...... wait a sec isnt the new dota being developed supposed to be free like alien swarm.

the fuck do blizzard care about a free game?

Blizzard doesn't like losing customers to another company??? GASP!

I'd thought all along it was kind of weird for Valve to be making a DotA game because it was born from the Warcraft III community. Glad to see its creators and Blizzard think the same thing.

Somehow I can't see myself believing Blizzards mentioning this out of love for the community. Feels like an attempt at a "be the good guy" stunt to me.

... though I was a little curious about Valve and the whole trademarking DotA, all things considered (community focused project, etc...)

well it sounds less that they think it should remain free and more like Blizzard want it.
They keep talking about it being available to the "blizzard community" etc.
Valve have Icefrog and it was his idea to get the trademark and make dota 2.
And icefrog is the authority when it comes to Dota, since he did most of the work. Blizz has no say in this since none of their employees were even part of the development process.

Anah'ya:
Somehow I can't see myself believing Blizzards mentioning this out of love for the community. Feels like an attempt at a "be the good guy" stunt to me.

... though I was a little curious about Valve and the whole trademarking DotA, all things considered (community focused project, etc...)

They seem to be doing the same thing they did with counter strike and Tf and portal.
They hire the modteam and trademark it.
Counter strike was a mod once too. And now valve owns the devs and trademark.

Whoop de do? It's just the name, change it to something else, it doesn't affect the game itself.

If Valve doesn't Blizzard will. I would let Valve handle DoTA before Blizzard any day. Valve will make free stuff for it, Blizzard would make you pay for everything. Valve just has a better community. Maybe it's not the right thing to do if you concentrate on the moment. But it's the best thing and future will show that Valve is right to do this.

I think Valve should just forget this nonsense and make Episode III.

No, I will not allow a single Valve thread to go by without some mention of Episode III. Sorry. : /

GiantRedButton:
well it sounds less that they think it should remain free and more like Blizzard want it.
They keep talking about it being available to the "blizzard community" etc.
Valve have Icefrog and it was his idea to get the trademark and make dota 2.
And icefrog is the authority when it comes to Dota, since he did most of the work. Blizz has no say in this since none of their employees were even part of the development process.

Anah'ya:
Somehow I can't see myself believing Blizzards mentioning this out of love for the community. Feels like an attempt at a "be the good guy" stunt to me.

... though I was a little curious about Valve and the whole trademarking DotA, all things considered (community focused project, etc...)

They seem to be doing the same thing they did with counter strike and Tf and portal.
They hire the modteam and trademark it.
Counter strike was a mod once too. And now valve owns the devs and trademark.

You're right. I don't believe Blizzard is acting completely selfless here. Sure, DotA originated in Warcraft, but if anyone should lay claim to the name it's the developers, who now work for Valve. And isn't it standard procedure to trademark a game that will be developed and sold in the future? It seems Blizzard isn't prepared to give up what it believes to be its own territory so easily...

It's stupid that they trademarked DotA, just look at the name;

"Defense of the Ancients"

Ancients referring to NightElf Ancients in Warcraft 3, the other side is the Scourge.

A lot of the heroes are heavily inspired by Warcraft's art style. Drow Ranger? Bloodseeker? Morphling? According to the concept art released, they all look very very very similar to the models they used in Warcraft 3 (Orc Shaman, Drow Ranger and Water Elemental.)

I just think it's really stupid.

I feel like Blizzard is saying this because they're afraid that Valve will take DotA and do something amazing that they couldn't do w/ it. This is Valve, btw. Sure they run on their own time schedual and have been making gamers wait for Episode 3 forever. But this is a company that released a sequel to a game a year later, and is updating both. A company that gives it's fav. crowd (PC) of gamers free DLC and amazing deals when the DLC comes out.

I feel like no matter what Valve does, they do everything to make up for it. If DotA is what it sounds like, Blizz might be scared that Valve makes a competetor to WoW and takes away from their millions of dollars of money

So wait... its been known that Valve was working with 'Icefrog' (The current creator of DotA: Allstars) for what? 1-2 years now? And NOW Blizzard wants to contest it?

Blizzard have shown no real interrest in DotA and with the MANY restrictions on custom maps in StarCraft 2, the whole "But we love our community" excuse seems a bit false.

Heck, call the game "Defenders of the Valve 2" just to spite them ;), the additions to the game looks plain awesome.

100% agree there with Blizzard. And Guinsoo (the second DotA developer now one of the leader of the Leage of Legends developer) said the same.

The name DotA belongs to the huge Wc3 community that kept supporting this project.

You know if Blizzard did a trademark on this... okay. But Valve? Valve had nothing to do with this at all. I mean at all. Now I don't care if they got IceFrog on their company. I have nothing against him creating DotA 2 for Valve either.

But just don't fucking trademark the term DotA as if it was introduced by Valve. That's just pathetic.

To me it seems like a touchy issue, because Valve should be able to produce a professionally created version of DotA, and studios usually have to protect their investments by trademarking game names. What do you think: Should any single company be able to own the DotA name?

To me it seems like you couldn't care less about Blizzard and especially DotA. That part kinda gives the impressions that you plain and simple favor Valve. It's not like Blizzard wants to trademark it. They just don't want any company out there doing so.

And if Valve is afraid of copyright issues later on when they don't trademark the term then choose another one. Just a slight change.

Since CS and DoD both started out as mods for HL and then Valve hired the guys who made them then trademarked the names I think they are quite within their rights to Trademark DotA as they hired the guy who originally created the mod and he now heads up the Dev team responsible for DotA 2.

Blizzard should have hired him first and then there would be no dispute.

Just my 2 cents

They did the exact same thing with Team Fortress, but you didn't see Quake modders bitching. No, they just played the game and had fun. I guess I can't expect the same maturity out of Blizzard

LTK_70:
You're right. I don't believe Blizzard is acting completely selfless here. Sure, DotA originated in Warcraft, but if anyone should lay claim to the name it's the developers, who now work for Valve. And isn't it standard procedure to trademark a game that will be developed and sold in the future? It seems Blizzard isn't prepared to give up what it believes to be its own territory so easily...

Well the developers of League of Legends don't want Valve to hold the copyright either... and one of the devs who originally worked on DotA works for them now.

ImprovizoR:
If Valve doesn't Blizzard will. I would let Valve handle DoTA before Blizzard any day. Valve will make free stuff for it, Blizzard would make you pay for everything. Valve just has a better community. Maybe it's not the right thing to do if you concentrate on the moment. But it's the best thing and future will show that Valve is right to do this.

You... know the great irony in this is that Blizzard has already announced that not only will Blizzard DotA be a free game, they'll be supporting it for free after release? And Valve's DotA 2 will almost certainly be a game you need to pay to buy?

This post is hilariously ignorant.

CheckD3:
I feel like Blizzard is saying this because they're afraid that Valve will take DotA and do something amazing that they couldn't do w/ it. This is Valve, btw. Sure they run on their own time schedual and have been making gamers wait for Episode 3 forever. But this is a company that released a sequel to a game a year later, and is updating both. A company that gives it's fav. crowd (PC) of gamers free DLC and amazing deals when the DLC comes out.

I feel like no matter what Valve does, they do everything to make up for it. If DotA is what it sounds like, Blizz might be scared that Valve makes a competetor to WoW and takes away from their millions of dollars of money

Blizzard still updates Diablo 2 and StarCraft 1, for free. You act like one company *hasn't* made one of the most legendary games of all time.

Christ, Valve fanboys are ridiculous.

Anyway, Blizzard is absolutely right. DOTA is a community acronym, and the fact that Blizzard DOTA is just a free map mod--and not a copyrighted name--shows that they understand this. Valve wants to trademark a name previously held by an entire community, not one man who has dubious claim to the name anyway.

That's outright disgusting.

ImprovizoR:
If Valve doesn't Blizzard will. I would let Valve handle DoTA before Blizzard any day. Valve will make free stuff for it, Blizzard would make you pay for everything. Valve just has a better community. Maybe it's not the right thing to do if you concentrate on the moment. But it's the best thing and future will show that Valve is right to do this.

So in short you're just some huge Valve fanboy. Valve will make free stuff for it? Did you know that DotA is actually fucking free? It's a mod/map after all.
But Blizzard would make us pay for everything? Oh gosh you're not only a fanboy but also a hater.

Christopher Dudgeon:
Since CS and DoD both started out as mods for HL and then Valve hired the guys who made them then trademarked the names I think they are quite within their rights to Trademark DotA as they hired the guy who originally created the mod and he now heads up the Dev team responsible for DotA 2.

Blizzard should have hired him first and then there would be no dispute.

Just my 2 cents

Half-Life: a Valve game.

War3: A Blizzard game. DotA was made by the Blizzard community. This isn't Valve hiring someone out from their community, this is them stealing the name from some other community entirely. It's disgusting.

GiantRedButton:
well it sounds less that they think it should remain free and more like Blizzard want it.
They keep talking about it being available to the "blizzard community" etc.
Valve have Icefrog and it was his idea to get the trademark and make dota 2.
And icefrog is the authority when it comes to Dota, since he did most of the work. Blizz has no say in this since none of their employees were even part of the development process.

Anah'ya:
Somehow I can't see myself believing Blizzards mentioning this out of love for the community. Feels like an attempt at a "be the good guy" stunt to me.

... though I was a little curious about Valve and the whole trademarking DotA, all things considered (community focused project, etc...)

They seem to be doing the same thing they did with counter strike and Tf and portal.
They hire the modteam and trademark it.
Counter strike was a mod once too. And now valve owns the devs and trademark.

If IceFrog is the main dude behind DotA and is now working with Valve, then who are "some of DotA's original creators" that are challenging it?

Man, Valve fanboys can be the worst kind of deluded. Do you really believe that Gabe Newell is out to give you things because he loves you all so huggy much?

JerrytheBullfrog:

Christopher Dudgeon:
Since CS and DoD both started out as mods for HL and then Valve hired the guys who made them then trademarked the names I think they are quite within their rights to Trademark DotA as they hired the guy who originally created the mod and he now heads up the Dev team responsible for DotA 2.

Blizzard should have hired him first and then there would be no dispute.

Just my 2 cents

Half-Life: a Valve game.

War3: A Blizzard game. DotA was made by the Blizzard community. This isn't Valve hiring someone out from their community, this is them stealing the name from some other community entirely. It's disgusting.

Yes but TF was a quake mod and Valve developed it into one of the best Multiplayer games of all time and they are still updating it today.

They will do the same with DotA 2 just watch and see.

Galaxy613:

GiantRedButton:
well it sounds less that they think it should remain free and more like Blizzard want it.
They keep talking about it being available to the "blizzard community" etc.
Valve have Icefrog and it was his idea to get the trademark and make dota 2.
And icefrog is the authority when it comes to Dota, since he did most of the work. Blizz has no say in this since none of their employees were even part of the development process.

Anah'ya:
Somehow I can't see myself believing Blizzards mentioning this out of love for the community. Feels like an attempt at a "be the good guy" stunt to me.

... though I was a little curious about Valve and the whole trademarking DotA, all things considered (community focused project, etc...)

They seem to be doing the same thing they did with counter strike and Tf and portal.
They hire the modteam and trademark it.
Counter strike was a mod once too. And now valve owns the devs and trademark.

If IceFrog is the main dude behind DotA and is now working with Valve, then who are "some of DotA's original creators" that are challenging it?

Guinsoo and Eul, the two guys who were working with DotA before IceFrog.

Christopher Dudgeon:

JerrytheBullfrog:

Christopher Dudgeon:
Since CS and DoD both started out as mods for HL and then Valve hired the guys who made them then trademarked the names I think they are quite within their rights to Trademark DotA as they hired the guy who originally created the mod and he now heads up the Dev team responsible for DotA 2.

Blizzard should have hired him first and then there would be no dispute.

Just my 2 cents

Half-Life: a Valve game.

War3: A Blizzard game. DotA was made by the Blizzard community. This isn't Valve hiring someone out from their community, this is them stealing the name from some other community entirely. It's disgusting.

Yes but TF was a quake mod and Valve developed it into one of the best Multiplayer games of all time and they are still updating it today.

They will do the same with DotA 2 just watch and see.

Valve has made one excellent multiplayer game, TF2. I'm not arguing that.

Blizzard has made at least six excellent multiplayer games. WC2, SC1, D2, WC3, WoW, SC2. The last five are still being updated, and with the exception of WoW, all the updates are for free. Blizzard is now adding four free new games to SC2, one of which is an (apparently awesome) take on DotA.

Sorry, I think I'll take the guys who make fantastic multiplayer in three different genres over the guy who just happen to make good FPS games.

Seems there is something more going on here then they're telling us, Valve isn't really known for these sort of stunts, but as everyone they do like money and I wouldn't put it past them.

On the other hand Blizzard will be roping in DotA when they build their own on SC2, so I'm not buying the "good guys" story for a moment, they only fear they may not be the first to tie down the cash cow.

I absolutely agree with the creators tho, it should remain in the public domain and should not be up for grabs to the first company with enough cash.

But I am still pondering on where Valve was going with this...

This is really un-Valve like. I'm siding with Bliz on this one, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

Im a blizzard and a valve fanboy, and i have to wholehartedly disagree with blizzard

Valve make quality games...simple as, dota 2 is going to be a fantastic game made by talented people...who cares who is making money, who is losing out...the CONSUMERS are winning here

Blizzard could have trademarked the dota name, then made D3, then made the next 2 SC2's, then a new MMO, then probably warcraft 4, THEN made DOTA 2, release date 2020...

No, if you ask me, this trademark is with the right people, im so happy that valve is branching out from its FPS roots, and making a high fantasy game instead of zombies or science fiction

TF2 cost a third of a game via orange box, and over the years, its been expanded (for free) to be five times the size at launch...DOTA 2 is going to be excellent, i guarantee it, and i reckon valve should be safe to know that their hard work is protected by this trademark, they deserve it

blizz > valve though

edit: another point: would you rather have someone like EA or similar owning the rights? no...i thought not

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