Crytek: PCs Are a Generation Ahead of Consoles

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lacktheknack:
That's "dissecting". Your argument is invalid.
(I can play this game...)

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

Pingieking:

phoenix352:

Pingieking:

Nope. Just the tower. He also uses only one brand of wireless mouse the keyboard. The keyboard that he uses isn't even in production anymore, but apparently it's the only wireless keyboard that lets him hold down more than 3 buttons at once. His entire rig is totally decked out. If I counted everything including the tower, I would say it's around $5000. But that's kind of unfair, because he's got an epic array of 10 GPUs (pretty sure they're all the best of the Radeon HD 6800 series), and only uses two for gaming and the rest for his project.

soo that friend of yours .... does he like work for the military and shoot missiles at enemy targets with his orbital Ion laser satellite? i dont see any other reason to have a super computer .....

Quantum computation simulations. Not sure about the details of his project, but apparently the calculations are fairly simple stuff involving huge ass matrices. So having a lot of really good GPUs (which they use to run lots of parallel calculations) is much more efficient than trying to get supercomputer time.
One of the little "side" projects he has is finding ways to factor numbers by setting parameters and minimizing the Hamiltonian. Never realized factoring was so difficult.

This is actually one of the fears of Quantum computing. Tons of encryption algorithms (including the very famous RSA) rely on factorization as the key to why they are basically unbreakable. If quantum computers become more functional and accessible than they are now they'll be able to break RSA encryption in a matter of seconds.

However, there have been some papers I've read which already postulate on Quantum Encryption, so I guess we're safe.

BloodSquirrel:

lacktheknack:
That's "dissecting". Your argument is invalid.
(I can play this game...)

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

This is the internet, English and spelling mean nothing here. Your argument is invalid.

Hmm... I'd say someone needs to make a tool similar to "Can you run it?", with a few important differences:

0. It needs to come standard on all new computers/OS's/PC games. It should be opt-out (systemwide opt-out!), and gather no user data but graphics settings, average FPS, and PC configuration.
What it will do is as follows:
1. It needs to compile user data from people running the same configuration who've tested that game, and make an analysis of their final configuration/framerate. Through some data wrangling, it should be possible to come up with an accurate reading of how the game will perform on a certain brand of computer. Rough estimates (such as "Can you run it?" uses, as well as performance on similar (but not identical) hardware configurations) would be factored into the final estimate.
2. It should express this data in terms of a graph for people buying new computers, with ten or twenty games representing "quality points" on the graph. It should list whether that computer can play the game in question, and at what detail level. (In this case, "playable" would equate to between thirty and sixty FPS) This will be a valuable service for PC vendors, as it will provide the customer with hard, solid data for whether the computer will fit his needs (for new computers, this will be advantageous, as older computers will be more obviously phased out!)
3. It should allow a potential buyer on a digital download service (or online store) to see how well a game is liable to perform on his platform before he buys it. This will cut down massively on tech support costs, and have little to no appreciable impact on sales (as for every consumer who declines to buy it based on the knowledge that it won't work, another will agree based on the knowledge that it will!).

As far as my limited analysis can tell, this would be:
* Good for the PC maker, as it demonstrates exactly how well their top-of-the-line computers will perform, as well as demonstrating the value of an upgrade
* Good for the game developer, as it would cut down on tech support needs
* Good for the consumer, as it would eliminate the lack of assurance that comes with new PC or videogame purchases.

This is what MS GFWL should have been, but isn't. Now I'm just waiting for Valve to make it.

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

BloodSquirrel:

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

This is the internet, English and spelling mean nothing here. Your argument is invalid.

It must feel great to have such an intellectual powerhouse on your side, lacktheknack.

I am an intellectual powerhouse, but grammar nazism ultimately leads nowhere. This thread will soon be forgotten and deleted, only to become a mere memory that too is forgotten. Such is the way of the world.

Flac00:
PC's have been and will always be ahead of the consoles because innovation only seems to appear on PC's. The few games I can think of that brought something significant to the table from consoles was Halo 1's innovations (even though it was originally a Mac game), and Gears of War (the cover system). If you can name others, please do, im not omnipotent. But at this point I can't think of a single other thing.

I assume you're talking only about shooters here, since those are the only games you're naming off. And yes, PC has always been ahead of consoles for shooters. Other genres not so much.

To err is human. To misspell, or to mispunctuate, is to err. To be on the Internet is to misspell or mispunctuate. The Internet is composed of the people on it, and their intellectual efforts. Ergo, the Internet is human. QED.

Ultratwinkie:

RatRace123:
Well, nice to see even developers like to spark the fire of flame wars every now and then.

Eventually consoles are going to be as powerful and have graphics that are as good as PC. And even if the power part doesn't ring true, there's only so much more that modern graphics can be improved on. I'd wager that probably in 2 generations, we'll have reached photo realism.

I mainly stick with consoles because my PCs have always been unreliable and have always had early deaths. I know that for the most part (excluding 1 RROD I got) consoles are more stable.

Early deaths? Did you feed it chocolate? Computers can't eat chocolate.

That was a joke if case no one got it.

Look, in my defense, nobody informed me of their dietary habits. It just looked so hungry.

Ultratwinkie:
I am an intellectual powerhouse,

This is what "self-esteem" centered education has gotten us.

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:
I am an intellectual powerhouse,

This is what "self-esteem" centered education has gotten us.

This is what lack of context has brought us. That was in a sarcastic context. Now if you want to continue trying to refute us with no evidence and try to discredit our intelligences that isn't an actual debate. Even I see through your veil of "I can't refute your claims, but ill try to make you look stupid so i won't need to refute you with my own intelligence and make myself look as pompous as possible in the process". The internet may not be the smartest place around, but it isn't retarded.

Proper grammar may be nice in books and literature but in intellectual discussion it has almost no use. Scientist, and historians don't even use proper grammar in their work. grammar nazism has no use and wont prove you right.

WaaghPowa:

[Gavo]:

TheRightToArmBears:
The thing is, not that many people have super-powered latest tech PCs. You could make a game for such crazy-ass PCs but it wouldn't sell too well.

The thing is, you don't need that. I invested in a good PC...two years ago. I can still run everything to the max.

This.
Also if you work out the actual costs of owning a home pc and a console, you'd be very surprised.
Rough math here: Console, 400 dollars after taxes, before additional accessories so about 500 - 600 depending on what you get.
Everyone on this forum has a computer obviously, Many of who probably purchases store pre builts so lets say 500 - 600 dollars.

You've effectively spent anywhere from 1000 to 1200 dollars on a console and a pc that can't play much of anything. with that much money you could've built a gaming pc that would blow an xbox out of the water and still serve as your home pc. Excluding the obvious exclusives most games are on pc as well.
It's much harder to argue cost of pc gaming when you work it out, and since Steam is always going nuts with sales, the cost of games in general is much lower than it would be for consoles.

Recheck your math. Xbox 360 $300. After sales tax that's $312-$336. Maybe throw in an extra controller and an extra something, it's $400 at most, not $500-$600. Most people aren't buying every single peripheral that's going to drive it above $400.
Basic pre-built laptop capable of high speed internet browsing, streaming movies in HD, and running Microsoft Office and Adobe Dreamweaver CS 5 cost me $400.

So personally I've spent about $750 and can do everything except play top level PC games. Even if I could have built a top of the line gaming rig for that much, I still wouldn't have a portable computer.

Additionally, most people don't want to deal with the hassle of getting games to work on the PC. Call me what you want, I just don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot when a game doesn't work on my PC. I've gone through that in the past when I had a gaming rig, and don't feel like it anymore. I like that when I buy a game for my Xbox, I put it in, and it runs. I'm not alone in this sentiment, and that's why consoles will always have a place.

Oh, and PC-fanboys, just because someone doesn't have the knowledge or inclination to build and maintain a gaming computer doesn't make them stupid. It means they have other pursuits, interests, and obligations outside of gaming.

Ultratwinkie:

This is what lack of context has brought us. That was in a sarcastic context.

I guess I can add "sarcasm" to the list of things that you don't understand.

F'ing right these consoles are holding back tech. This is the longest console cycle ever. Wake up people.

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

This is what lack of context has brought us. That was in a sarcastic context.

I guess I can add "sarcasm" to the list of things that you don't understand.

Uh huh, maybe we can add -everything- to the list you don't understand either. You just pick and choose words to pick apart so you appear smart. Comprehension check, appearing smart doesn't mean you are. Want to play this game? Fine, ill play this game. You haven't responded to any of the points made against your claims and reply only to try to refute people's intelligence with extremely juvenile comebacks. well we are waiting for your actual responses. When you are done desperately trying to convince yourself that you are more intelligent than all of the historians and scientists in the world maybe you can get back to us in the real world when you're done in your fantasy world. How about that?

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

BloodSquirrel:

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

This is the internet, English and spelling mean nothing here. Your argument is invalid.

It must feel great to have such an intellectual powerhouse on your side, lacktheknack.

Why is this person not banned yet?

AC10:

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

This is the internet, English and spelling mean nothing here. Your argument is invalid.

It must feel great to have such an intellectual powerhouse on your side, lacktheknack.

Why is this person not banned yet?

I wonder that myself as well.

My PC is about 3 generations behind consoles.

Trelmayas:
snip

My numbers are based on:
1) The usual costs where I'm from with the local sales tax
2) the amount of money I see people spend on electronics where I work

Also that 750 dollars you spent is actually more than what I spent for the initial computer I built over a year ago that's still more powerful than a console and does everything else.
It's fine that you just want your game to work, most people don't want to go through the trouble , I've personally never had a problem getting pc games to work; Steam sets up most of their games to work right after the download and if they don't they get patched pretty quick.

Never once did I say anyone was stupid or lacked technical understanding, I'm just showing you can get more bang for your buck and the cost argument isn't a particularly strong one.

Ultratwinkie:

AC10:

BloodSquirrel:

It must feel great to have such an intellectual powerhouse on your side, lacktheknack.

Why is this person not banned yet?

I wonder that myself as well.

Just make sure you're reporting posts in which he's being inflammatory, trolling, insulting or discouraging meaningful discussion. These things are disallowed on this site. The more reports, the sooner the mods will get to it.

AC10:

Ultratwinkie:

AC10:

Why is this person not banned yet?

I wonder that myself as well.

Just make sure you're reporting posts in which he's being inflammatory, trolling, insulting or discouraging meaningful discussion. These things are disallowed on this site. The more reports, the sooner the mods will get to it.

Well they won't do much, I seem to be the mod's whipping boy. If i post in the thread where someone is trolling I am the one to get in trouble regardless.

Well, I game on the PC and counsel, so whatever, I guess.

PCs are ahead because of games like Arma 2, which actually do things with the power and versatility of PCs.

Nobody cares how far ahead we are if it's all just "ooh, shiny!"

Trelmayas:
Additionally, most people don't want to deal with the hassle of getting games to work on the PC. Call me what you want, I just don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot when a game doesn't work on my PC. I've gone through that in the past when I had a gaming rig, and don't feel like it anymore. I like that when I buy a game for my Xbox, I put it in, and it runs. I'm not alone in this sentiment, and that's why consoles will always have a place.

Last game that failed to work for me out of the box was Fallout 3, and that's Bethesda so I imagine a far few people on consoles had problems as well. Thankfully it only required to edit one text file. Before that, Worms Armageddon, which can be excused since it's over twelve years old and not available on any modern console. Ultimately, the vast, vast majority of PC games these days just work.

dont understand why people think they need a lot of money for super PC's, i got mine for around 1500$ in 2007, including all the components and games, and haven't needed to change anything besides the fan once.

TheRightToArmBears:
The thing is, not that many people have super-powered latest tech PCs. You could make a game for such crazy-ass PCs but it wouldn't sell too well.

I thought that Crysis sell a million copies? Thats pretty good for a game few people would be able to play.

Warforger:

TheRightToArmBears:
The thing is, not that many people have super-powered latest tech PCs. You could make a game for such crazy-ass PCs but it wouldn't sell too well.

I thought that Crysis sell a million copies? Thats pretty good for a game few people would be able to play.

It actually sold pretty poorly altogether, but it gained them insane notoriety for the complexity and quality of the engine (glitches aside, of course). The problem really though, was that Crytek emphasized the higher-end capabilities of the engine too much, without iterating enough that the game runs perfectly fine on non-DX10 rigs, you miss out on some of the graphical beauty, but other than that it plays just fine.

BloodSquirrel:

lacktheknack:
That's "dissecting". Your argument is invalid.
(I can play this game...)

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

To my knowledge, the Spelling Gestapo was a subset of the Grammar Nazis. And how does one use ellipWHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING!? <exits this madness>

lacktheknack:

lostzombies.com:

Delusibeta:
Yeah, we know.

Ultimately, PC gaming won't ever be as big as console gaming, but console gaming's reliance on motion controls will probably make PC gaming bigger.

Wait............console gaming has a reliance on motion controls?

If it wasn't heading that direction, Sony and Microsoft wouldn't have bothered with Move and Kinect.

that's not the issue at all, motion control is purely a cash cow that they have decided can prolong the time until a new generation is needed.

IE we can get more money out of these system until we need to spend money on R&D

This whole motion control era is just the console version of Hollywood's "NEW IMPROVED DIRECTORS CUT EDITION!" of old films before then have to start making something else

lacktheknack:

BloodSquirrel:

lacktheknack:
That's "dissecting". Your argument is invalid.
(I can play this game...)

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

To my knowledge, the Spelling Gestapo was a subset of the Grammar Nazis. And how does one use ellipWHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING!? <exits this madness>

Don't leave before you report as the pink jiggly puff guy said.

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

BloodSquirrel:

Nope- you actually have to have better Grammar. You made a mistake in the very sentence you were trying to call me out with, which is an instant loss. You've also just used an ellipses improperly.

This is the internet, English and spelling mean nothing here. Your argument is invalid.

It must feel great to have such an intellectual powerhouse on your side, lacktheknack.

He happens to be more or less correct... Grammar Nazis are typically drowned in the sludgepool that is the internet. I'm sure that your side must be happy to have the floods and floods of idiot "Consoles or Death" fanboys on it.

BloodSquirrel:

Ultratwinkie:

This is what lack of context has brought us. That was in a sarcastic context.

I guess I can add "sarcasm" to the list of things that you don't understand.

Mmkay, if you can't recognize that you're trolling at this point, go sit in a corner and re-evaluate your life. And if you do recognize it, go sit in a corner and re-evaluate your life.

jords:

Reaper69lol:
I miss the days when gaming was not all about the visuals.

Funny, whenever I see ads for older games, visuals is usually a big selling point of the games ...

I have an original Doom floppy disk in its case unopened, and it reads exactly: "Doom includes 9 levels of the most incredible 3D action and superb graphics you will ever experience!". I hate it when people say old games were never about graphics, it's far from the case.

Edit: & Put it this way, One of my computer's GPUs is around twice as powerful as the graphics chip in an Xbox360... and I have 4 of them.

Crytec is a generation ahead of the average computer computer... maybe 2. If my PC can't run your game I don't care how nice ti looks, I'm not buying it. I'm not paying 2 thousand dollars to get a new PC to buy your game, dummy.

Not to mention that all your doing is making games prettier. That's actually fairly low on the list of things that games good. Other aspects and items are far more important.

I've never been quite sure why people so fired up over the pc vs console debate. A console is a pc. Its a modified, customized, standardized computer with a custom os and a simplified interface. The advantage of a console is that its easier to develop for and a bit more secure against piracy (and apparently used game sales now..sigh). Also, consoles keep accidentally making peripherals that scientists and doctors find useful.
Disadvantage, the digital territory on your console is controlled by someone else, not you, and they don't want you fiddling with it, even if you are a doctor or a scientist.

Personally, I prefer the pc over the console and it has nothing to do with performance. Half the fun of gaming for me is the interesting mods, the custom maps, the custom models, custom sounds...etc, etc, etc.

What keeps the pc out of the limelight? Companies see a more profitable market in something they can control and they have the cash to tilt things in their favor.

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