No Metropolis/Gotham Crossover in The Dark Knight Rises and Superman

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No Metropolis/Gotham Crossover in The Dark Knight Rises and Superman

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The producer of both upcoming films based on the DC universe says he will not cloud the stories by doing crossovers like rival Marvel film The Avengers.

Charles Roven has produced a lot of movies, from classics like Terry Gilliam's Twelve Monkeys to not-so-classics like Get Smart and Scooby-Doo, as well Christopher Nolan's Batman films. He was recently asked to take on producing duties, along with Nolan, for the upcoming Superman re-reboot which is currently titled Superman: Man of Steel. Because he's got his thumb in the biggest pies that the DC universe has to offer, rumors immediately spread that we'd see Superman travel to Gotham or Christian Bale's Batman mention Metropolis. Perhaps comics nerds have been a bit spoiled by Marvel spreading its characters over a series of films, blurring the lines between Thor, Iron Man and Captain America's individual movies with a mega Avengers flick. With DC, it's not that far-fetched an idea as the source-material comics and even the upcoming MMO DC Universe Online treats all DC heroes as living in the same world, but Roven has emphatically stated that such a scenario will never happen while he's in charge of Warner's DC adaptations.

How do we know? Well, that's what he said when he was asked point blank if the two films will exist in a shared universe.

"No. That may be in somebody's mind but right now the Batman lives in his world and the Superman lives in his world," Roven said. "Those stories are those stories and we haven't thought beyond each individual picture."

Roven also said that Nolan wasn't looking too far past directing The Dark Knight Rises right now and that it may be the last Batman film from him. "I think that Chris Nolan has said that he wanted to make a trilogy and this is a trilogy. As far as we all know, this is it. This is the trilogy," Roven said. "The Dark Knight Rises is the third part of what Chris created with Batman Begins and we're not looking past that. I've said this about Chris before: I've never known Chris to do anything but focus on the movie he's making. He gets completely immersed in the movie he's doing and I know that all he's thinking about right now when it comes to Batman, The Dark Knight Rises, is making it the best movie he can. He's not thinking, 'Will there be another one?'"

So there you have it. The Dark Knight Rises and Superman: Man of Steel are two very separate projects and Christopher Nolan will likely cease directing Batman films after this latest installment. Although it might been neat for a brief crossover cameo in either film, I can't say that I'm disappointed or upset. I respect the integrity of Nolan and Roven for keeping the stories separate.

Source: Shock Till You Drop

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Somebody's talking sense!

As if Superman would fit into the style of Nolan's Bat films.

And Superman is best when he's truly special.

Sweet. In comics it's clear to see how much of art style is compromised for Batman to feat in Superman world. Not to talk about how they both have a different approach in senses of "super". In Supepr world everything is bigger and stronger than Batman. Not to mention it's not a series of movie, meaning I can simply sit and watch to have fun.

Superman would be kinda out of place in the setting created by the recent Batman films. Whilst a Justice League film might be interesting, I can't see it fitting in with the current Batman series.
I'm wondering how they are going to do the next Superman film, part of me thinks that a more villlan-focused film (like Batman returns was) might be the way forwards. I wasn't too impressed with Superman Returns.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to Dark Knight Rises.

Superman is way over rated, Superman is basically a god in flesh, where as Batman is only a man, but still accomplishes more and isn't as naive as Superman.

But, how many new Superman films have there been? We get it, he is super human, so focus on someone else, someone interesting.

Spirultima:
Superman is way over rated, Superman is basically a god in flesh, where as Batman is only a man, but still accomplishes more and isn't as naive as Superman.

But, how many new Superman films have there been? We get it, he is super human, so focus on someone else, someone interesting.

I'm not a Superman fan either, he's just dull to me. Batman is a much more interesting character with tonnes of interesting enemies. I'm glad to see DC keeping them apart as I really dont think they belong anywhere near each other.

i support this. batman and superman are on two sides of the hero spectrum.

Well, that's just common sense. Superman wouldn't fit in the Nolan Batman movies at all. I'm sure there's a VERSION of Batman out there that could hang with Superman, but that's just not Nolan's take on the franchise.

Wait... we'll get another Superman film? Damn, this doesn't sound too good.

But yeah, thanks, Roven. It's not really something for a crossover.
Now Green Lantern and Batman... that'd make for an interesting conflict-pair. Just like in the comics.

One of the first scenes in The Dark Knight was Batman needing a new suit, because a dog managed to draw blood. How on earth would Superman fit into this? Besides, he's boring, and far too overpowered. Actually, I half expect him to have blond hair and do nothing but grunt in the next movie >>
See, I actually like the current Batman movies. They are by no means the cinematic masterpieces some people make them out to be, but I much prefer this kind of (super)hero movie. The dark tone, the mortality of the characters, and the absence of supernatural forces made the movie so much more believable, and (for me at least) more enjoyable.

Glad to hear that DC and the people it employs are more concerned with making good movies than some bizarre obsession with continuity.

I can't see how Marvel's grand plan can do anything but backfire on them horribly, I don't understand what's wrong with just separating them out and getting on with it. It's fiction, there are no rules damnit!

I'm personally glad we won't be seeing a crossover event. Despite the genius that was The Dark Knight, both Batman and Superman are on shaky ground as far as film franchises go. Superman is undeniably the more unstable of the two, and as such needs time to develop before it can become a fully realized IP. I wouldn't mind a casual nod, like if someone in the new Batman mentions Metropolis in conversation, but as far as a full-blown crossover I'm not watching.

So I'm the only one dissapointed? I get that tone wise these movies will be completely different and that 9 out of 10 times a crossover would probably fail, but that one successful movie, man that'd be awesome. Batman and Supes have a really interesting relationship, bordering from best of buddies to an uneasy truce between the two of them.

A movie could deal with Batman feeling useless compared to Superman, while Superman develops a begruding respect for this itty bitty human who fights so darn hard. Drama could come when Superman is encouraged by the government to bring Batman to justice. Superman knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, but out of honour gives him a chance to turn himself in as Batman at a certain time. Then a fight like the end of the Dark Knights Returns where Batman pulls no punches and beats the ever lovin' hell out of Superman.

We don't even need Kryptonite for the fight itself, have Bruce developing tech the whole movie (maybe with the assistance of an anonymous dossier from Lex Luthor), red light generators that temporarily depower him, depleted uranian bullets, plasma creating missiles, lasers to penetrate his personal force field, heat retardant lead putty to blind him with and a lead lined battle suit with high frequency audio scramblers that deafen Supes so he can't hear him coming, and hydraulic taser fists powered by twenty blocks of gothams electricity.

Superman finally manages to shakes this all of, circles the globe and recharges his batteries, before landing before Batman. Finally Bruce reveals he's worked out Superman's identity early and opens his palm revealing a sliver of kryptonite that he could have used straight from the start, but he wanted to show Clark a lesson, not kill him.

Any discrepancy in Superman's normal power level can be hand-waved with that fact he's initially trying to go easy on Batman and that exposure to red-sunlight followed by fighting at night time means he has less solar energy in his body. Remember this is not a cheap cop-out if Batman planned for these things to happen. And the reason he doesn't use this stuff in his other films is because it's too dangerous and expensive (even for him) to use on ordinary crooks.

Basically have Batman as we all love, thinking twenty steps ahead of his enemies. Suitably impressed Superman and Batman resolve their differences, there's a comment on the appearance of other heroes and they muse about forming a league.

WolfThomas:
So I'm the only one dissapointed? I get that tone wise these movies will be completely different and that 9 out of 10 times a crossover would probably fail, but that one successful movie, man that'd be awesome. Batman and Supes have a really interesting relationship, bordering from best of buddies to an uneasy truce between the two of them.

A movie could deal with Batman feeling useless compared to Superman, while Superman develops a begruding respect for this itty bitty human who fights so darn hard. Drama could come when Superman is encouraged by the government to bring Batman to justice. Superman knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, but out of honour gives him a chance to turn himself in as Batman at a certain time. Then a fight like the end of the Dark Knights Returns where Batman pulls no punches and beats the ever lovin' hell out of Superman.

We don't even need Kryptonite, have Bruce developing tech the whole movie (maybe with the assistance of an anonymous dossier from Lex Luthor), red light generators that temporarily depower him, depleted uranian bullets, plasma creating missiles, laser to penetrate his personal force field, fire retardant putty to blind him with and a lead lined battle suit with audio scramblers that Supes can't see or hear coming, powered by twenty blocks of gothams electricity. Finally Bruce revealing he's worked out Superman's identity straight away.

Any discrepancy in Superman's normal power level can be hand-waved with that fact he's initially trying to go easy on Batman and that exposure to red-sunlight followed by fighting at night time means he has less solar energy in his body. Remember this is in not a cheap cop-out if Batman planned for these things to happen.

Basically have Batman as we all love, thinking twenty steps ahead of his enemies. Then at the end they resolve their differences, comment on the appearance of other heroes and muse about forming a league.

... Woah.

I read the article thinking "Thank God, they won't ruin the films!" then I read your post, and you know what? That could work. BIG time.

Go phone Mr Nolan.

Good, I think the recent nolanverse batman is just too "real" for any kind of superman, it would just seem very out of place.

My main problem with superman is that when you only have one weakness, it ends up getting crowbarred into everything. That and if his secret identity was ever really discovered I can't see it doing much more than irritating him, I mean he is still more or less unkillable.

Also, his super goody morals all the time start to annoy me. It's actually one of the things that really annoyed me about smallville (which was on the whole, pretty good)Half of the time I was agreeing with lex or Green arrow, and wanted clark to stop seeing the world so damned black and white.

Whereas if batman's identity is discovered, he is as good as dead.

DangNabbit:
... Woah.

I read the article thinking "Thank God, they won't ruin the films!" then I read your post, and you know what? That could work. BIG time.

Go phone Mr Nolan.

Thanks, I read too many comics.

But what it's shown me is that even the most boring of character can be made awesome by fantastic writing. I think Kryptonite is always a huge cop-out and I love it when some science (or even pseudo-science) is used to try and defeat a super-hero. Superhearing, deafen them! Force field, we can still see him, so that means light can pass through it, use a laser!

A film like the one I proposed cements how insanely badass a well prepared Batman with no limits could be. Why a mere human is on the same level as gods in their world.

good, they should remain separate. 2012 is going to be the year that we see if comic book films should prioritize the film aspect or the comic aspect and I'll be blunt, if the Avengers DOESN'T blow up in Marvel's face I will be amazed. That company's hubris led to Iron Man 2 being a narrative mess and has cost the series Favreau who did a GREAT job with the first. Fanboys (and Bob) will probably disagree, but the odds are against Marvel

Thank God. You could almost clock the previous franchise going to hell on the moment Kilmer's Bruce Wayne had his "...halfway to Metropolis by now." line.

Hopefully after Nolan is done we can get a justice league movie, that would be nice.

Wait. Who was thinking they would cross over? I mean this is good news. I guess. It confirms something won't happen that I never even thought about until I read the article that said it won't happen.

good...the crossover stuff is what I think kinda messed up Iron Man 2 >:[

He's making the right desician. A big part of why is that the version of "Bat Man" he's using is too grounded in pseudo-reality to work for such a crossover. Generally speaking it's the high-camp aspect of Batman that allows him to deal with and play the game alongside other heroes. Nolan's Batman is using things like military prototype weapons that are supposed to be like one generation ahead of current tech, combined with his training. The comic book Batman uses technology that would fit in with Star Trek or Star Wars when the need arises. The higher the level of the opponents, the more crazy Batman gets with the gadgeteering. As I point out a lot of the time, he's not some ordinary guy holding his own with these "post human gods", his capabilities are just as amazing as theirs are. On a fundemental level him being involved there is no more unreal than Lex Luthor being Superman's Arch enemy all these years, Lex is also an "ordinary guy" though his science is hardly ordinary. I've heard some people argue, especially during the old "Tower Of Babel" storyline that Batman is arguably just Lex Luthor with a couple of black belts, at least in the comics. :P

To do the crossover you'd first need to establish Batman more into the domain of pure cheez as far as the science goes. This would include rebooting the entire franchise to have Batman not just be a kung-fu master with stealth skills, but also to be a penultimate scientist. In the comics Batman does not use people to develop tech for him because he has to, but because it's useful. Batman is crazy powerful because while "ordinary" he's pretty much defined as being the pinnacle of human achievement in everything, except for maybe science where he exceeds that. He analyzes enemies himself, and sits down and kit bashes super weapons as appropriate. "Tower Of Babel" had him personally developing weapons to disable his Justice League teammates if the need ever arose (since he'd only have a chance if he was ready ahead of time), the plot revolving around these prototypes which he never told them about (since they needed to be a surprise weapon) being stolen by Ra's Al Ghul, when Talia got into the Bat Cave via the Teleporter in the Justice League watchtower. This included things like a bullet that vibrated so fast that if "The Flash" tried to vibrate through it it would reverse his own vibrations and trap him (gogo Lex Luthor).

You'll notice that in DCUO Batman is using powered armor in the intro movie, and this was also the case in Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns", when he actually fought Superman. I believe it was also briefly mentioned that in that version "The Batmobile" had been augemented with Alien tech.

Also for those who have only heard about it (and a complete side point) Batman also did not win the fight with Superman in "The Dark Knight Returns". The powerful thing about that story is that Superman appears to lose, but you find out later that he threw the fight. When Batman apparently KOed Superman and collapsed from Cardiac Arrest (using a drug to feign death), Superman points out to Robin at his funeral that he was actually conscious and could hear that Batman's heart hadn't fully stopped and pretty much let him go. People tend to forget that entire scene which is what makes the entire story, and is also why "the Dark Knight Strikes Back" is viewed as so much garbage.

As far as movie plots go, I am hard pressed to think of a storyline where Superman would need the movie version of Batman for assistance. In the comics it works because despite what some people "argue" they are actually on very similar power levels overall, just in differant ways (again, think Lex Luthor who has been winning rounds against Superman pretty much forever, even beating him at times, but inevitably having to let him go). That's not true in the comics, honestly Superman would be better to get Lucious Fox to help him in the movies than Batman, but even so the tech isn't really all that high a level. If your doing Superman as per the comics, where Superman is ALSO a scientific genius, and master of Kryptonian Technology (the guy has been building robots since he was Superboy) it's even more of a joke. Batman in the comics can make better toys than Superman at his best, but Batman in the movies is unlikely to have anything even remotely close to what you'd find in "The Fortress Of Solitude" and what Superman learned there.

That's very good to hear. The presence of Superman would utterly destroy the serious nature of Nolan's films.

Good move on the studio's part.

I have nothing against a Batman/Superman crossover, but for a crossover to work well, it must be a crossover from the beginning. To make these films crossovers now would be forced and distracting.

This is probably for the best. Green Lantern is looking lackluster compared to Thor, so perhaps its for the best that the Justice League is not ruined by a piss poor effort on the part of DC's movie making colleagues.

And Superman is not boring.

In the comics, Batman is elevated almost to superhero status just to balance out Superman. You know, world's greatest martial artist, criminologist, plans perfectly for any given situation (this last one all but is a superpower). Nolan's Batman is far from that level - he's human, with human weaknesses. He has cool toys and the will/ability to use them, but he's also conflicted about his duty, makes mistakes, etc etc. Confronted with Superman, he would be unimaginably outclassed.

A crossover could work, but it would mean greatly compromising one of the characters - remove Bale's human flaws, or introduce them to Superman. It could be interesting if done that way, but on the whole I'm glad they've ruled it out. Batman works fine on his own.

Well heres the thing tho, all they really had to do was have a passing mention of each other and the comic nerds will all cream their pants. It doesn't even have to be more than say a newspaper headline mentioning each others existence or perhaps just saying the name of the city. Not to mention this leaves room for a crossover down the line. And much hype to be created from speculation from comic nerds!

I mean Aliens vs Predators would of never existed if it wasnt for this scene in predator 2.
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Its literally just a passing glance that the universes are shared :P
Cameos are not needed!

For anyone who says that nolan's batman is too serious for Superman, i present to you Nolans Batman is STILL BATMAN. how serious can you get when its about the Cape Crusader?! Yall ppl are crazy, Batman is still a comic book superhero. You can suspend your disbelief for a growly voiced Batman to exist but not for a superpowered alien? really?

Oh one more thing, i do appreciate that they will spend all their effort on their own respective story. But all im saying that as an after thought is all that is needed to generate a crazy mount of buzz for the properties. Warner Brothers can't possibly disagree with that.

Sensible but inevitable. Fortunately the guys at Warner have realised that the sum would not equal the parts with Bats and Supes. Nolan wouldn't have wanted to do it (I'd imagine) as Superman is heavily antithetical to the style of his films in general.

Only a slight nudge in the cartoony side would see Batman work in a wider DC universe but he must always play straight man to a wacky world, and super powers are probably a little too wacky for the tone of the films.

In defence of Superman, its not so much that he's boring, just that he's only ever made into boring films. The lonely moral high ground, Doomsday, Lex Luthor as president, there's all kinds of things that would make a good film but it would have to be quite unusual - and therefore its unlikely to get green lighted. Superman is not invincible, film adaptations of him just haven't featured any of his major stable of harder hitting threats. That and Lex Luthor is always basically a comedy character in the films doesn't make it any easier. Personally I think he's the most useful as a background character/antagonist in other DC stuff - the ultimate power, that when corrupted, is ultimately threatening.

A Superman/Batman crossover that could work could be The Dark Knight Returns (they wouldn't even have to break with the series naming conventions). Set well after Batman's prime and Superman's submission to a right wing president, the story is an epic with the Superman's superpowers shown as truly otherworldly but slowly corroded throughout the story. Frank Miller has more or less jumped off the deep end recently but TDKR is a classic that's nearly film ready.

There will eventually be a crossover, once they've squeezed all the money they think they can out of the individual franchises, demand is high. As for Superman, if they toned down his uberness, simply made him very tough (but not 100% invulnerable), it could work. All the best animation and comics featuring him lent him a little mortality.

Also, my favorites were ones where him and Batman were -not- best buddies, but adversarial, at least at first. They didn't like each other, not at all, but eventually came to respect one another.

As far as the Superman franchise, anything, anything, could be better than the abortion Superman Returns was. Horrible, horrible movie.

I think a Nolan take on Superman would be very very interesting. Too bad Superman is already in the works. Simply portray him as an alien from a heavy gravity world, very tough, try to nudge him from fantasy into SciFi . . .

I would love to see the first meeting of those two in that movie

Batman: whoa, you're...eh... a big lad. Do much weightlifting fella?

Superman: Not really mate, just buildings and stuff really.

Batman: Buildings?

Superman: yeah, or cars, trucks. Picked up a continent of Kryptonite recently.

Batman: You're gonna hafta explain everything that you just said, starting with what Kryptonite is.

Superman: Kryptonite is the only known substance in the galaxy that can penetrate my rock hard exterior, even the smallest fragment can make me weak and feeble.

Batman: and you picked up a continent of the stuff?

Superman: well....yeah. pretty much. What can you pick up?

Batman: well to be honest buddy i have trouble fighting large dogs. Where did you get all this...stuff you can do?

Superman: born with it. I think I'm an alien.

Batman: you think your a what?

Superman: I think I'm an alien. That's what the ice crystals in the giant ice dome said.

Batman:..... uh.......?

Superman: What's your problem?

Batman: I'm just a bit annoyed that I had to put thousands of hours into training and preparation and your just born with.... well... everything. Ice house to boot.

Superman: what are you implying?

Batman: that your an utter tool!

Superman: [pow]

Batman: Dead

Disappointing, but not surprising. Fortunately, DC fans have the animated films and comics where the writers have the imagination to write stories where they can share a universe.

Marvel's crossover ambitions are going to bring their current run of success at the box office to a crashing end at some point over the next two years. All it'll take is one bad movie to taint the rest and given Marvel's track record that's a matter of when, not if.

Nolan's making the right decision. Why risk tying in his hugely successful revival to one that's already failed once?

What is there to cloud? Super man and Batman have the most simplistic settings for any film/comic its so easy to do yet they are incapable of doing it.....

I was half-expecting this article to end with

"...but it would have been fucking awesome, though."

That's because the only thing that Batman and Superman do together is rescue Aquaman, and even then only if he's in a kryptonite cage ;)

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