Gabe Newell: The Next Videogame Billionaire?

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Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

hazabaza1:
And around half of it is from people buying TF2 keys.

What works works. It's not horse armour.

No, it's a gamble at what may be the horse armor you want, but probably won't be. I don't share the hostility towards the Mannconomy, but even I think the crate/key system is just cruel. See the VGCats comic somebody posted.

People don't gamble to win (well they do but if they ONLY gambled to win they'd gamble once and realise it wasn't paying off) they do it for the rush the dream of millionaire potential. You won't win the lottery just buying a ticket for every draw for the rest of your life.

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

What works works. It's not horse armour.

No, it's a gamble at what may be the horse armor you want, but probably won't be. I don't share the hostility towards the Mannconomy, but even I think the crate/key system is just cruel. See the VGCats comic somebody posted.

People don't gamble to win (well they do but if they ONLY gambled to win they'd gamble once and realise it wasn't paying off) they do it for the rush the dream of millionaire potential. You won't win the lottery just buying a ticket for every draw for the rest of your life.

This isn't a million dollars. This is the horse armor you referenced. You're spending real money (about the price of horse armor, in fact) for a game item that only affects the appearance of the player, except you're incredibly unlikely to get that game item. At least with horse armor, you could spend that money knowing what you were downloading. In this case, it doesn't pay off (as you acknowledge) and there is no prize worth the excitement you describe. It's only a trap for the curious and the gambling addicts.

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

No, it's a gamble at what may be the horse armor you want, but probably won't be. I don't share the hostility towards the Mannconomy, but even I think the crate/key system is just cruel. See the VGCats comic somebody posted.

People don't gamble to win (well they do but if they ONLY gambled to win they'd gamble once and realise it wasn't paying off) they do it for the rush the dream of millionaire potential. You won't win the lottery just buying a ticket for every draw for the rest of your life.

This isn't a million dollars. This is the horse armor you referenced. You're spending real money (about the price of horse armor, in fact) for a game item that only affects the appearance of the player, except you're incredibly unlikely to get that game item. At least with horse armor, you could spend that money knowing what you were downloading. In this case, it doesn't pay off (as you acknowledge) and there is no prize worth the excitement you describe. It's only a trap for the curious and the gambling addicts.

And some people roll the dice just to see if the get a seven this time.

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

People don't gamble to win (well they do but if they ONLY gambled to win they'd gamble once and realise it wasn't paying off) they do it for the rush the dream of millionaire potential. You won't win the lottery just buying a ticket for every draw for the rest of your life.

This isn't a million dollars. This is the horse armor you referenced. You're spending real money (about the price of horse armor, in fact) for a game item that only affects the appearance of the player, except you're incredibly unlikely to get that game item. At least with horse armor, you could spend that money knowing what you were downloading. In this case, it doesn't pay off (as you acknowledge) and there is no prize worth the excitement you describe. It's only a trap for the curious and the gambling addicts.

And some people roll the dice just to see if the get a seven this time.

...aaaand you wouldn't have a problem with someone charging such a person money to roll that die?

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

This isn't a million dollars. This is the horse armor you referenced. You're spending real money (about the price of horse armor, in fact) for a game item that only affects the appearance of the player, except you're incredibly unlikely to get that game item. At least with horse armor, you could spend that money knowing what you were downloading. In this case, it doesn't pay off (as you acknowledge) and there is no prize worth the excitement you describe. It's only a trap for the curious and the gambling addicts.

And some people roll the dice just to see if the get a seven this time.

...aaaand you wouldn't have a problem with someone charging such a person money to roll that die?

If it's legal, no one is forcing them and they're aware of the rules of the game? If those three criteria are met, my opinion is irrelevant in the face of their informed decision. If that's not the case it is wrong.

I play poker with my friends, we gamble with real money, we all know the house rules and it's in no way illegal or untoward. I almost never win but I'm still going to play next time because it's a thing we do. If I ever go to vegas I'll probably hit the tables there and lose money aswell. Why is it evil to let a person make their own choice?

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

And some people roll the dice just to see if the get a seven this time.

...aaaand you wouldn't have a problem with someone charging such a person money to roll that die?

If it's legal, no one is forcing them and they're aware of the rules of the game? If those three criteria are met, my opinion is irrelevant in the face of their informed decision. If that's not the case it is wrong.

I play poker with my friends, we gamble with real money, we all know the house rules and it's in no way illegal or untoward. I almost never win but I'm still going to play next time because it's a thing we do. If I ever go to vegas I'll probably hit the tables there and lose money aswell. Why is it evil to let a person make their own choice?

It's a manipulative choice. I don't have a problem with a set price for a set item. Valve sells items, and I'm fine with that, because that really is an informed decision, but I take issue with a super special fantastic mystery box that really isn't going to have what it offers unless you're incredibly lucky or spend a few hundred dollars to beat the odds, and people who are addicted to gambling are helpless to resist. Unless you look it up, you don't know that the estimated drop rate of their "Exceedingly Rare Special Item!" is 1%, and not everyone does the research. They just see that they might get something they want, and it lures them in. Chances are that they will never get what they want.

I've read an article about someone spending hundreds of dollars on keys and never finding one unusual hat that the crate description teases us with. He expected not even a specific item, but one of many unusual items, and spent an unreasonable amount of money to not even receive it.

A poker game where everyone is running equal risk is one thing, but this is a roulette game that is harshly in favor of one side, and that side gets all the real money while the occasional winner gets something that really isn't worth the risk. This isn't a fair game among friends; It's a rigged carnival game with a cheap stuffed animal as the prize for betting $2.49 to knock the super-glued metal bottles over with a ball so light it couldn't hurt a child if you hurled it at him as hard as you could.

Soylent Bacon:

manythings:

Soylent Bacon:

...aaaand you wouldn't have a problem with someone charging such a person money to roll that die?

If it's legal, no one is forcing them and they're aware of the rules of the game? If those three criteria are met, my opinion is irrelevant in the face of their informed decision. If that's not the case it is wrong.

I play poker with my friends, we gamble with real money, we all know the house rules and it's in no way illegal or untoward. I almost never win but I'm still going to play next time because it's a thing we do. If I ever go to vegas I'll probably hit the tables there and lose money aswell. Why is it evil to let a person make their own choice?

It's a manipulative choice. I don't have a problem with a set price for a set item. Valve sells items, and I'm fine with that, because that really is an informed decision, but I take issue with a super special fantastic mystery box that really isn't going to have what it offers unless you're incredibly lucky or spend a few hundred dollars to beat the odds, and people who are addicted to gambling are helpless to resist. Unless you look it up, you don't know that the estimated drop rate of their "Exceedingly Rare Special Item!" is 1%, and not everyone does the research. They just see that they might get something they want, and it lures them in. Chances are that they will never get what they want.

I've read an article about someone spending hundreds of dollars on keys and never finding one unusual hat that the crate description teases us with. He expected not even a specific item, but one of many unusual items, and spent an unreasonable amount of money to not even receive it.

A poker game where everyone is running equal risk is one thing, but this is a roulette game that is harshly in favor of one side, and that side gets all the real money while the occasional winner gets something that really isn't worth the risk. This isn't a fair game among friends; It's a rigged carnival game with a cheap stuffed animal as the prize for betting $2.49 to knock the super-glued metal bottles over with a ball so light it couldn't hurt a child if you hurled it at him as hard as you could.

Roulette is the best example of this style of game, and I have no doubt the odds are stacked heavily in Valve's favour (the House always wins), but every person has the choice to play that game. It's extremely unlikely I'll ever play roulette, and if I ever do it'll purely be an occasion when there is money I literally will never miss and have absolutely no real use for, but even if the wheel was invisible and the odds of success obscured no one will be holding me there or forcing me to choose the game.

This is the internet and undoubtedly someone, if not Valve themselves, has clearly blocked out the odds of return on the Mystery box and Google is right there. When the information is at your fingertips and the choice is 100% yours then I have zero sympathy for anyone who loses more than they can afford to purely because they chanced their arm (with reasonably limits based on gambling addiction, children or the mentally (the real kind not just stupid) impaired).

EDIT: Another facet of this issue is governed by the "worth/suffering" ratio. In otherwards people who suffer (or work/study etc.) to gain something small will value it far more than someone who gets that same thing at zero personal cost. A very good example is christmas presents, about a week after christmas most people can't tell you what they got.

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