Anonymous Uncovers Corruption in Wisconsin Labor Dispute

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Jim Grim:
Are they actually a 'hacker group?' I was never clear on that.

No, they just have hackers with them.

Basically, anyone who visits 4chan's /b/ is more or less automatically a member so long as they remain anonymous. Anonymous is anarchic, it has no structure, and is ruled by nobody.

DannibalG36:
All hail the LULZ!

Seriously - they're the best reason to act politically.

i second this opinion

FOR THE LULZ!!!!!!!!!!

Anon' gets beastier by the day. I AM KEEPING THAT LIST GENTLEMEN!

I would love to support unions but every union shop I have ever been in has made it worse for both the workers and the business. Not to say I don't support the rights of workers to collective bargaining to entire fair wage and benefits but corruption evident in the unions hurts everyone. As well as to much power being on one side of the table.

Unions ability to harass and block workers who are non union should be the first thing to go. As well as allowing a company to completely oust aa non compromising union should be restored as a last ditch effort. A government agency does not have that last ditch option. School cannot shut down while new educators are located and the government cannot stop functioning while new police and firefighters are trained. So I can see how they wish to further lower the powers of unions in those fields.

I can also see how corruption can seep into an otherwise normal pursuit. Locating and removing that corruption should be a priority, but the heart of the issue still stands and shouldn't be ignored or invalidated because of thay corruption.

Ever since that piece of legislation got passed to allow corporations to give as much as they want to campaign financing the Koch brother pretty much bought the Republican party, considering how many corporations they personally control.

Jim Grim:
Are they actually a 'hacker group?' I was never clear on that.

Nope. Some of us are hackers/hacktivists, but the thing about Anonymous is that its extremely loose. The fact that it has no official position also means that people often self-organise into doing different things under the banner of internet freedom and other elements of freedom of speech. Project Chanology (the whole movement against Scientology), for example, is still up and running despite having less media coverage than other elements of Anonymous these days... that element is mostly comprised of regular people protesting IRL, rather than hackers DDOSing Scientology sites nowadays.

holy shit Anonymous, dont you think you may of over done it now?
Your actions as a internet regulatory body are commendable and for that many of us love you, but weighing in on stuff like this smacks of a self regulating police force- which is one hell of a line to cross.

WanderingFool:
Umm, wow... Not sure what to say... damn... this whole affair is starting to turn foul.

Its been that way for nearly 2 decades now.

illmuri:
Corporate greed aside, rule by street mobs is not the best alternative either. If you dont like the governor, elect a new one at the next election. The unions are hardly better than Koch. "Well, we are not bankrupt yet, so we want our raises now!" To hell with the consequences.

They weren't asking for a raise.

They were asking to not have their wages reduced.

I like when people use the words think, believe, and speculate other people automatically believe them and all their points are true and valid. :D

It seems that at least some portion of Anonymous reads the New York Times. The part of Walker's bill that basically gives him carte blanche to sell off the state's utilities was mentioned in an opinion piece last week.

Is anyone surprised, though? If you are, you must be very comfortable under that rock. It's been pretty much proven that Governor Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch Brothers. The Koch Brothers would love to break up unions, destroy the ability of American workers to dictate to their employers, and force them to accept wages and working conditions identical to China's. All for greater profits.

Maybe we should listen to Warren Buffett: "It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be."

I think that people need to cool down what they are doing in anonymous' name for a bit. They are starting to rack up a few enemies, I know that they have always had enemies and Anon's policy on most of them is "fuck 'em" but still.

Might want to wait for the heat to blow over guys or someones going to start getting vanned.

HankMan:

Greg Tito:

Anonymous has no official position on abortion
Anonymous has no official position on tax policy
Anonymous has no official position on health care
Anonymous has no official position on collective bargaining agreements
Anonymous has no official position on campaign finance reform
Anonymous has no official position on the Tea Party
Anonymous has no official position on the Democratic Party
Anonymous has no official position on the Republican Party
Anonymous has no official position on the Green Party
Anonymous has no official position on global warming
Anonymous has no official position on off-shore drilling
Anonymous has no official position on budget deficits
Anonymous has no official position on George Soros
Anonymous has no official position on the Koch brothers
Anonymous has no official position on Fox News
Anonymous has no official position on MSNBC
Anonymous has no official position on CNN
Anonymous has no official position on NAFTA
Anonymous has no official position on the IMF or World Bank
Anonymous has no official position on Wall Street
Anonymous has no official position on entitlement programs
Anonymous has no official position on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Anonymous has a very fucking official position on LULZ

I don't know why, but that list makes me happy. My faith in the hackerdom of Anonymous is restored.

If anything mine has increased: No agenda besides empowering the people.

...and laughing. Very hard.

But yeah, I currently support what anonymous is doing. They certainly have more push than documentaries and news articles.

Garak73:
So I say this without being well informed, I am glad US citizens are FINALLY starting to protest. US citizens have been abused by politicians and greedy corporations for far too long and we have sat back and taken it, I am glad to see that is changing. Anonymous is a very strange and interesting group, I don't understand them but I'd like to.

To mis-quote a line from a pop song, that right there I expect will end too soon. I can't see these protests bringing any larger scale changes beyond this bill.

Anon is full of Cyber-Zoro's.

illmuri:
Corporate greed aside, rule by street mobs is not the best alternative either. If you dont like the governor, elect a new one at the next election. The unions are hardly better than Koch. "Well, we are not bankrupt yet, so we want our raises now!" To hell with the consequences.

Main difference being that Koch brothers can do without the extra money while the workers, not so much.

cerebus23:
Destroying unions or trying to hardly seems the best way to going about gaining their support, and just seems would cause unions to dump more money into left wing campaigns.

I have 2 aunts in the teachers unions and they are thoroughly corrupt, and stagnate any meaningful reform in education most of the time, more money more money and more money, both my aunts will make more money retired than they make while working.

I have worked at places where union was trying to get in, one woman in my department filed a restraining order against them for harassing her outside work.

I mean i would love to support unions, the whole better pay better benefits workers rights thing sounds great but how they go about stuff just sits with me wrong. Nevermind that government employees already have benefits and pensions, why do they need collective bargaining? Collective bargaining just says if you do not give us what we want we can shut you down, that is way too much power for state and federal employees to have, especially when it is our tax dollars paying for their salaries, benefits etc, not a private corporation, state workers and federal should get what they get a decent and fair wage and decent and fair benefits but stop trying to leverage our tax dollars into more for you.

I do have a problem with some unions. And honestly think they need a balancing factor. For example... Teachers ultimately serve parents and work for the state (for the most part, I realize private schools are different.) So, while a teachers union should be worried about working conditions and the like, something like I guess the PTA should be worried about and working together on recommending reform. And honestly, teachers should be talking to parents anyway about their salaries. I'm sure many parents would help them get higher salaries.

As far as state and federal employees, well, I was in the federal employee system for a bit. And its true that the union there didn't cover collective bargaining. It mostly was about worker safety and the like. That may or may not have been because it was federally sponsored. Either way, I think if people in federal or state jobs want a pay raise, they should be honest about what their salaries are, what they want, and go to the people. With the people's support, it will mean more voices to hear their petition in the state or federal legislature. And even down to the city level, there are often some places that can use this. I know fire stations are well funded. They often have amazing, durable equipment. However, in a lot of places, the lion's share of the money given to fire stations goes exactly there, and not to the firefighters. Some places in the US, firefighter salaries average between 20-28 thousand a year. For people paid to go through rigorous training regularly, and put their lives on the line where concepts like workplace safety are laughable, and especially anyone with a family, that's not a lot. Especially in places like Southern California, where half of what they have to deal with is a tinderbox of a forest going up again, often dangerously close to dry kindling-piles of towns.

Of course, I'm personally in favor of honest government. And I mean completely honest government, especially when it comes to the budget. In Japan now, and I get the fun of hearing about "normal" city level corruption. Basic example: there is a rule that cities and/or prefectures have to lower their tax income the next year if they end up not using up all of their budget in the current fiscal year. You know, instead of putting some aside in case something big brown and stinky hits something sharp fast and spinny. So, when there is a surplus (which, ironically, there often is,) people in government have to think fast and get a lot of spending done. The big reason why a long time ago, there were things like bridges connecting the Imaginary Highway to the great city of Valhalla across the eternal abyss of A Hill In A Flat Plain. Now, I suspect they spend it on snack bars and karaoke. But, there is another rule that at any time, any citizen can ask to see the budget paperwork, and the city hall or prefectural office has to show it to them. Thus, leading to the widest publicly accepted use of a black marker to censor government records I have ever seen.

HG131:
You know, I'm starting to think that a good theme song for anon would by Land of Confusion (the badass version by Disturbed).

they handle they're covers well i must say, didn't really like the U2 cover at the end of Asylum though, but not really into U2 so might be it

OT::
I've had mixed feeling about Anon for a while, they do something 'stupid' which i groan at them for, then they do something like this >.> and i like them

Please, please, please, whenever you're discussing this issue make sure to specify that it is about PUBLIC employee unions, not unions in general. While I'm not much of a fan of either variety, public unions are an entirely different level of bad idea compared to private industry unions. As I don't want there to be public employee unions, I sure don't want them being able to collectively bargain for pay or benefits, either. I'd be much happier if there were just a whole lot less public spending across the board, so they're not going to get a lot of sympathy from me.

It's amusing that the tactic here is to ignore the MIA legislators who are holding up the state's business on a procedural rule, something I never approve of when either party does it, and try to swerve into some headline-grabbing class warfare. If the discussion is going to be about no bid contracts on utility sales, which is a very important issue to discuss, let's talk about that, after we've dealt with the issue at hand here. All those union folks didn't rush the capitol for that, but it's turned into a very handy prop.

illmuri:
Corporate greed aside, rule by street mobs is not the best alternative either. If you dont like the governor, elect a new one at the next election. The unions are hardly better than Koch. "Well, we are not bankrupt yet, so we want our raises now!" To hell with the consequences.

They aren't saying they want rule by street mobs, in fact they state quite clearly that they don't give a shit. They uncovered the corruption of the government and made information free to the public, like they always have. The unions are an entirely different subject.

OT: I'm in with those people who have delusions of grandeur for Anonymous and I don't even live in the US (as far as I've heard, there hasn't been a lot of Anonymous activity outside of the US). I support there cause, it's a one I've always supported. However, they need to keep in mind that freedom of speech also allows for the freedom to keep secrets. Here's to hoping they don't go over the top and fuck the US up.

Neferius:
The Revolution will not be Televised ...it will be Tweeted :D

What revolution? All I see are bunch over idealistic children who think their opinions matter.

Blitzwing:

Neferius:
The Revolution will not be Televised ...it will be Tweeted :D

What revolution? All I see are bunch over idealistic children who think their opinions matter.

Like how the middle east is going? Most of them are young from what I read and they seem to have a head on their shoulders.

shaboinkin:

Blitzwing:

Neferius:
The Revolution will not be Televised ...it will be Tweeted :D

What revolution? All I see are bunch over idealistic children who think their opinions matter.

Like how the middle east is going? Most of them are young from what I read and they seem to have a head on their shoulders.

And them they'll be right back were they stated from. People need to learn that corruption will always occur and that it can never be beaten.

Blitzwing:

shaboinkin:

Blitzwing:

What revolution? All I see are bunch over idealistic children who think their opinions matter.

Like how the middle east is going? Most of them are young from what I read and they seem to have a head on their shoulders.

And them they'll be right back were they stated from. People need to learn that corruption will always occur and that it can never be beaten.

True, but you don't hear of people being killed in America, Europe, Japan, etc, because they want a voice in their government.

But this is completely off topic.

I wish other people would get their fingers out of my dairy, so to speak.

I live in Wisconsin and I'm really sick of all this. I don't agree with cutting away bargaining rights, but quite frankly, I have to pay out for my retirement plan, I have to pay for insurance, yada yada. Why should others get it for free in this hard economic time and I have to pay through the nose?

And why only Wisconsin? Other states are doing it too/working towards this.

My biggest gripe though, is that the teachers are teaching this and not presenting ALL the facts to their students. I think it's incredibly unprofessional and I'm bombarded daily with their opinions and at point downright propaganda. It's not all as clear cut as they'd like to present. Neither side is "right" but we need SOMETHING to change in this state.

I like the Koch family. They also fund some of my favorite shows on PBS.

No one anti-union in this thread seems aware that the unions have already agreed to take pay-cuts in order to keep their bargaining rights -- and Walker has still denied them, proving that the whole move is nothing but one big union-busting hackjob, with the word 'budget' sprinkled on like a spice because it's the political buzz-word right now (just behind 'deficit', 'Obamacare', 'China', and 'macatacahodo 360'.)

The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

spectrenihlus:
The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

Democrazy: N.
1. A form of authoritarian rule which seeks to disempower civilian organizations, in order to negate voice of same in the governmental process.

Weird. I thought it meant something different...

California successfully recalled a governor. Can that happen In Wisconsin?

illmuri:
If you dont like the governor, elect a new one at the next election.

Wisconsin is a recall state. Enough pushing could get this asshat out of office in approximately a year.

The Rogue Wolf:
It seems that at least some portion of Anonymous reads the New York Times. The part of Walker's bill that basically gives him carte blanche to sell off the state's utilities was mentioned in an opinion piece last week.

Is anyone surprised, though? If you are, you must be very comfortable under that rock. It's been pretty much proven that Governor Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch Brothers. The Koch Brothers would love to break up unions, destroy the ability of American workers to dictate to their employers, and force them to accept wages and working conditions identical to China's. All for greater profits.

Maybe we should listen to Warren Buffett: "It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be."

Was wondering if anyone else here heard about the "prank call." That Scott Walker is a real American (I like how he suggests sending some of his union-busting ideas over to Rick Snyder in Michigan.). I especially love how the only demand on the table for Wisconsin Democrats is keeping collective bargaining for state workers (which is a reasonable demand). Everything else is not being debated at all.

Speaking of, in all this talk of the states balancing thier budgets, has no one brought up (or even thought) to cut funding for sports stadiums? Every year, states give out huge amounts of money to either build/maintain stadiums, all on taxpayer dollars, but these big conglomerates that own the teams keep all the income. Furthermore, studies have shown that their benefit on local economies is negligible compared to the cost of maintaining them, so I have to ask: why? If Comerica wants to own the Detroit Tigers, then let them pay to keep Comerica Park functioning all year round (to be fair, the actual split is something like 60 percent private funding, 40 percent public, but why is it that high for public funding at all?).

I mention this because Wisconsin, like Michigan (or every other state), is similarly obsessed with sports stadium, which is a worse drain on the budgets than social programs that Republicans want to cut at every level (and are almost at the breaking point for how much can be cut). Why is giving money to companies that already make billions more important than making sure that people have food, jobs, or even homes?

spectrenihlus:
The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

Filibustering (which is what these WI Dems are doing) is only 'delaying the democratic process' when Democrats do it?

Have you seen anything going on (or not going on) in the Senate the last two years?

I can't decide if I like Anonymous. They are often a lot of utter bastards, and while they have no official stance, their group is still responsible for upholding the Trade Unions. Actions speak louder than their doctrine.

On the whole, no. They aren't advocates for free speech, power to the people, getting rid of corruption etc.

They're a group of bullies who attack people they disagree with, and who break a great deal of laws just so they can think of themselves as some kind of internet freedom fighters, whereas they are merely backing up sites like Wikileaks against a great deal of moral and legal barriers.

I don't want them to get put in jail for 99 years. Just someone to turn up at their house, slap them and point out that they aren't as cool or important as they think they are and need to stop parading about the internet hitting out against whatever group they chose to hate that particular week.

CD-R:
Not really sure why Anonymous would get involved in this whole thing. Unless those utilities thing also includes internet services as well.

That's because you're thinking of anon as a single organization. It's not. It's an amalgam of hackers and script kiddies. Just because an anon picks up a cause it doesn't mean that he has universal, or even majority, support. In fact it's entirely possible... actually pretty likely... that different anon groups will eventually find themselves divided on an important issue and hacking in opposition to one another. And that's OK. It's all about the lulz anyway, right? Anon vs. Anon will would be a mad fun show.

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