UK Atheists Hope to Eliminate Jedi Population

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 . . . 27 NEXT
 

marcogodinho:
snip

Oh if they genuinely believe it then fair enough, put it down. The thing is most of the people doing it is for a joke, and knowing our government, we probably will end up with this bigger problem you mentioned.

Conor147:

Haakong:

Varrdy:
(apart from the God-bothering brigade who hate the fact that rational people have their own ideas)!

I find it amusing that people view me this way, because I got faith :D

faith. lol. what is that good for? faith doesnt distinguish between one religion or another. it doesnt do anything to differentiate truth from bullshit. if you genuinely care whether or not your beliefs are true, faith is something to be avoided.

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain

"Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
-Dan Barker

etc. etc.....

It makes me a better person. Isnt that good?

I think it's a perfectly reasonable campaign, I support it.

The religious statistics from 2001 were used amongst other things to fund faith schools and give religious charities a tax break. I for one am dead against madrassas (or any kind of faith-based school) in my neighbourhood, as every single one of them teaches unsubstantiated drivel as revealed fact. Last week an Iman (who is also a biology professor) in London spoke up for evolution, for example - he got death threats from nutcases and was forced to retract his statement. This is in LONDON. LONDON, people, not Pakistan. Nobody can deny that religion causes untold misery, death, persecution, bigotry, homophobia etc.

The 3rd biggest group of people in the world right now are people of no religion, if stats are to be believed ("The New Atheism", Victor Stenger, p.22). It's important to make your voice heard, and that is done not through thinking "oh it'll be HILARIOUS to put down Jedi when I'm actually not", it's by being somewhat serious and thinking "what I put down here will have consequences for many people, even though I'm just one person".

Sorry for being seriouscat but atheists/secularists are right in being serious about this.

EDIT: Hamster at Dawn got it in a oner.

I would put "the Holy Light". Or "the Greater Good". Or "Genestealer". Or "Tzeentch". Or "the Lich King". Or "Sargeras". Or "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!"

If I were in England.

And weren't Catholic already.

Conor147:

but i cannot conceive of how believing in an invisible sky daddy can make someone a better person. atheist are typically better educated, less likely to go to jail, happier, less likely to be divorced etc. just contrast sweden (where almost nobody believes in god) with mexico (where everyone everyone believes in god). theres a direct positive correlation between religiosity and corruption, and with irreligosity and societal success.

That's a false correlation, unless you can prove that atheism causes these differences, as opposed to average income or employment. Hell, you could even make the argument that since Sweden has a higher number of white people per thousand that the non-white races are genetically predisposed towards crime.

But doesn't that sound silly?

Conor147:

Haakong:

Conor147:

i was referring to your juvenile red herring about numbers on paper. the one where you misconstrued the issue by pretending we care about numbers on paper and not what they denote.

I rest my case :D

EDIT: Damn man, you gotta get your quote-skills straight! That was a mess you made there :D

not as urgently as you need to get your spelling-skills straight.

is this you trying to subtly abandon your argument? better sooner than later.

No, I rest my case in that you got no humouristic sense. I didnt have to even prove it, you did that fine yourself. Now if you excuse me, theres fun to be had :D

Soon the Jedi will be eradicated.
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

I'm with the majority here, I think, if you genuinely believe in whatever Jediism is, then go for it, but if you're just screwing around, please don't. Cameron already is trying to cut libraries and other public services and I don't want him making statement that he's shutting down my local library to invest the saved money in research into Jedi culture, because the census demands it.

As for atheism isn't a religion, when I got to the question about what I drive, I just ticked the 'do not drive' box, it's the same deal. No it's not a religion, but it's a fair option when asked what religion you are.

Seriously, if you're kind of sick of churches, church school and the like getting tax breaks just because they have a combined belief in an imaginary friend, if you think they deserve to get off light while everyone else is getting hit with cuts and higher taxes, write jedi, or metal, or 'I worship a big red balloon' or whatever. If you're not religious tho, put in 'no religion' and maybe we can send the message that there's a sizable proportion of the UK populace who don't follow a God.

Generic Gamer:

Conor147:

but i cannot conceive of how believing in an invisible sky daddy can make someone a better person. atheist are typically better educated, less likely to go to jail, happier, less likely to be divorced etc. just contrast sweden (where almost nobody believes in god) with mexico (where everyone everyone believes in god). theres a direct positive correlation between religiosity and corruption, and with irreligosity and societal success.

That's a false correlation, unless you can prove that atheism causes these differences, as opposed to average income or employment. Hell, you could even make the argument that since Sweden has a higher number of white people per thousand that the non-white races are genetically predisposed towards crime.

But doesn't that sound silly?

This guy hates religion for unknown reasons, and arguing him into accepting religion is like convincing a racist black people can be nice and awesome too :D

EDIT: also he clearly loves to sound superior in every way possible. Watch your grammar! :D

Generic Gamer:

Conor147:

but i cannot conceive of how believing in an invisible sky daddy can make someone a better person. atheist are typically better educated, less likely to go to jail, happier, less likely to be divorced etc. just contrast sweden (where almost nobody believes in god) with mexico (where everyone everyone believes in god). theres a direct positive correlation between religiosity and corruption, and with irreligosity and societal success.

That's a false correlation, unless you can prove that atheism causes these differences, as opposed to average income or employment. Hell, you could even make the argument that since Sweden has a higher number of white people per thousand that the non-white races are genetically predisposed towards crime.

But doesn't that sound silly?

i know correlation doesnt imply causation, but its definitely not a "false correlation", as you said.

if these differences arent caused by atheism, they are caused by whatever causes atheism. the correlation is very strong, and cannot be rationalized away. the only country that deviates at all is america, and thats because christianity in america is a very unique phenomenon.

even if i was to capitulate ultimately, and admit that the atheism is only the result of better education (which is the result of the better society) and that being well educated leads strongly to atheism, and not the other way around, i would be fine with that. if atheism doesnt cause better societies, better societies causes atheism, and that would be enough for the argument im making, if not, its more to the point im trying to make.

Haakong:

Generic Gamer:

Conor147:

but i cannot conceive of how believing in an invisible sky daddy can make someone a better person. atheist are typically better educated, less likely to go to jail, happier, less likely to be divorced etc. just contrast sweden (where almost nobody believes in god) with mexico (where everyone everyone believes in god). theres a direct positive correlation between religiosity and corruption, and with irreligosity and societal success.

That's a false correlation, unless you can prove that atheism causes these differences, as opposed to average income or employment. Hell, you could even make the argument that since Sweden has a higher number of white people per thousand that the non-white races are genetically predisposed towards crime.

But doesn't that sound silly?

This guy hates religion for unknown reasons, and arguing him into accepting it is like making a racist like a black guy :D

unknown reasons? well obviously. because religion is completely benign and hasnt stunted the progress of humanity by several centuries, at all? has it? so, what reason could i possibly have to hate religion (which is btw, just a baseless assertion on your part. yet another one.)

unlike you, who admits believes things without evidence and doesnt care about whether or not his beliefs are true (ironically, by the way, like the racist you compared me to), im willing to change my mind. if you can convince me that religion isnt cancer by.... hmm... proving that it spares people from eternal suffering (because it certainly condemns them to unimagineably horrific suffering in this world), then im willing to change my mind.

Haakong:

EDIT: also he clearly loves to sound superior in every way possible. Watch your grammar! :D

EDIT: uhh, what? are you a moron? have you really, actually, seriously failed to notice that in every post ive completely neglected orthodox grammar? and where, if at all, have i EVER alluded to caring about grammar?

holy. fuck.

Gizmo1990:
I live in the UK and I will put jedi as a from of protest. Althrough I do not really belive in any religion, and while I agree that some of the questions in the census are usefull to the government I do not belive that it is any of their bussiness what I do and do not belive in. Other questions ask if you have ever or are currently feeling depressed or what your general mood is. Here is my respones Mr.Cameron. MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!

You realise the question is optional, right?

Filled out my census the other day and put Jedi. Fuck those guys

The 'Jedi' response on the last census was a deliberate protest at the invasiveness of the census (I believe putting questions about sex life was mooted for this census - how many times a week etc). Atheists are missing the point.

The thing is does puting down No Religion classify you as athiest or agnostic? If athiest then perhaps this group is having a whinge because they want their statistics to increase. Though I could'nt understand why, being a majority gives you less privileges.

But still, star trek is a borderline religion (watch trekkies to understand my point) & if they think a sci-fi cult cant be labelled a religion then how did scientology get away with it?
Besides since the US military have (& probably still are) been trying to replicate lightsabres & other starwars type weapons since the 80s they're probably afraid that if they're successful & by that time Jedi becomes a full fledged religion the jedis could legally obtain these weapons for private use as they are religious artifacts.

Not G. Ivingname:

Emperor Pope-atine?

As far as i have read the replys are about two things now: If "Jediism" should be choosable, or if the census is necessary at all.

First, the census is a governmental mechanism which is only common in democracy for a reason. However it is up to the actual government if the results are used to suppress grievances or to actually improve the government and politics for the people (which is hard to achieve, but should be the reason to use it after all) while all of those who argument "care your own business" should know: they DON'T care about YOUR business at all, that's why your name is (or should be) erased in the early process, they care about the masses!

Second, if Jediism should be choosable. At this point i have to say that the campaign is obviously an "order 66" to suppress something which has some potential and is hard to predict! And why shouldn't people choose Jediism? If they don't believe in it, yes, but otherwise there is no reason at all! To choose whatever you like is the right of free will, just like some choose "Christianity" just because they pay the taxes for it, or some choose "Scientology", even it is one of the youngest religions and questionable just like all the others. But to believe is also your right and to tolerate other religions/ ways to believe is what separates someone from extremists.

In conclusion: Take part of the census and choose whatever you like because it is your right to do and as long as you watch what is done with your data, everything will be ok.

darkstarangel:
The thing is does puting down No Religion classify you as athiest or agnostic? If athiest then perhaps this group is having a whinge because they want their statistics to increase. Though I could'nt understand why, being a majority gives you less privileges.

But still, star trek is a borderline religion (watch trekkies to understand my point) & if they think a sci-fi cult cant be labelled a religion then how did scientology get away with it?
Besides since the US military have (& probably still are) been trying to replicate lightsabres & other starwars type weapons since the 80s they're probably afraid that if they're successful & by that time Jedi becomes a full fledged religion the jedis could legally obtain these weapons for private use as they are religious artifacts.

no religion = only a disbelief in god, not absolute certainty

a/theism and a/gnosticism address different things. everyone is a combination of atheist/theist and agnostic/gnostic. but a/gnosticism doesnt address the issue in question of what religion, or lack of, someone subscribes to.

The key point to be raised really is if you tick no religion does the money just get split between the other religions and they get a bigger share or does it go to other things that actually matter like the NHS and local councils because if ticking "no religion" just gives the others extra money then ticking "no religion" is a terrible idea in my opinion. I'd rather see a joke religion get money instead of real ones to fund the grand delusions than spawn from them.

Another way to consider it: if everyone pays taxes then everyone should be able to decide on where their bit of "religious tax" goes and if they tick "no religion" then shouldn't they get a small tax exemption?

Tom Goldman:
Snip

Errm, funny as the home page header for this article is I don't think it accurately conveys the message you were aiming for.

Atheists Hunt Downs Jedi

A Jedi with Downs Syndrome needs no more or less hunting down than any other Jedi, goody-two-shoes scum that they are.

[cough]Atheist Sith for life![/cough]

OT: Funny as putting Jedi on the census is, I did it myself 10 years ago, it doesn't help at all. It puts us further down the Atheist league table (not serious reason) and also gives the government the wrong idea about who its people are (serious reason).

They can't just assume that everyone that puts Jedi is in fact Atheist because there are nutters out there who believe in it, magic and all, and other people who claim to use the "Jedi philosophy" as the way to live their life. Same with Pastafarian and Adeptus Astartes or whatever else make believe you're tempted to put, the government can't rule out the possibly that you're bat shit mental.

what a load of generalising bullshit. its just some shitty group of people who are complete killjoys, it doesnt mean that atheists as a whole are all boring and mundane. the majority of englands population are atheist or CofE, which may as well be atheism because very few people take it seriously.
englands problem isnt religion fuelled. its political. there are too many politically correct arseholes who want to tell everyone else how to live their lives, and not enough people who just go with the flow of thigs and chill out a bit. i know because im in england and i see shit like this every day.

The_root_of_all_evil:

summerof2010:

And frankly, whether purposefully or by accident, your arguments paint Atheists -- all Atheists -- as petty, conniving, and intolerant.

Exactly how you, and these atheists, paint anyone daring to believe in religion. Or wishing to mark Jedi on their census.

Furthermore, your arguments are schizophrenic, occasionally irrelevant, and always confusing.

Funny, as quite a few other people seem to understand them, could it be perhaps - God forbid - that it's you at fault?

I hope that you'll have slept the night before you reply to this, and that the morning will have brought some sense into your head so that I can at least understand whatever point you're trying to make. But if not, I'll quit this whole damned conversation with you, because it's going nowhere by the direction of prejudice and utter nonsense.

See, passive-aggression doesn't work on me, because I've had decades of this nonsense. You're failing to give people credit for a concerted effort to make religious affiliation not matter, and you're failing to see that the acts of the Atheist Council - or whoever they are - are simply proselytizing, in the same way that any other religious group would do.

Here's a simple one: What current charitable event has been made by Atheists, in their name, that doesn't involve tearing down something constructive?

Because it's reasonably easy to name one for the Christian Church, the Scientologists, the Muslims, Buddhists and even the Jedi.

Atheists just put an agnostic slogan on a bus for the lulz.

For the last time, the campaign targets non-religious people who marked "Jedi" for a laugh or to "make a statement." It literally has nothing to do and does not concern itself with the decisions or proclamations of the legitimately religious. The slogan on the campaign's website says, "If you're not religious, for God's sake say so," not, "If you are religious, please get bent." You have no basis for suggesting otherwise, and the only reason you do so is because of your unreasonable prejudice that all Atheists hate religion and would see it destroyed.

Maybe you're right about it being not my fault, so for the sake of helping me to understand, could you point me to the other posts in this thread that discuss or comment on your posts? Just the post numbers will do please.

By the way, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I was being regular aggressive. Actually, I toned it down quite a bit. I started out just calling you a stupid bastard, but then I realized that that would be rude and pointless. And indeed, they are trying to make religious affiliation not matter -- secularization of government and public service is part of their goal, in general. This particular campaign, however, is an admission that it does matter, and an attempt, then, to make it clear who believes what exactly. If this were a Christian group trying to accurately represent itself in the demographic data that helps determine how their country is run (regardless of how valuable you think that information is in general or what right the government has to have it), I would defend them as well. It's not proselytizing -- in no way is it that -- and it's a noble goal, even if it's only spawned out of a self-interested grab at lobbying power.

Lastly, http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/ . Took me about 30 seconds on Google to come across it; it helps with things like feeding the poor, empowering young people, working for world peace, and all that other stuff that charities are known for. Now, I'd be willing to bet, indeed, that there are far more religious organizations dedicated to charity (there are also plenty dedicated to hate and bigotry, I might add), but part of that is the fact that Atheists are still a minority, and they don't a have a social structure as organized as religious groups do. It's really easy to find a bunch of Christians when you need to ask them for help; they all collect in the same place at least once every week. Furthermore, Atheists are still charitable -- Bill Gates is an Atheist, and he runs the biggest damn charity in the world. However, they don't usually feel compelled to do it in the name of Atheism, which is the biggest reason there are many fewer Atheist charities. They do it because they love their fellow man.

And they did not put that sign on the bus "for the lulz" any more than the religious groups responsible for the signs, billboards, bus ads, TV ads, radio ads, etc. proclaiming their message (which, plenty of times, has just been that non-believers are going to Hell) did it for that reason. They did it because they wanted to encourage people to be open about their lack of belief in a society that doesn't necessarily accept that about them. It was about showing them that there are other people like them they can talk to, relate to, and who will support them if they need help. You know, like the nicer church advertisements.

RelexCryo:

ReiverCorrupter:

mechanixis:

It's more complicated than that. In the United States, you literally have no hope running for office without being emphatically Christian. While there is a technical separation of church and state, in reality it's very much a Christian hegemony. By under-representing the actual non-religious demographic, we're just perpetuating a culture where someone's religion is seen as some kind of moral metric: being "Christian" automatically marks you as a good, intelligent person, while being Islamic or nonreligious demonizes you. It's a system of deeply ingrained prejudices.

How is this "destroying religion"? There's no forcing here; it's just an appeal for them to take these things seriously. If anything, it's begging. You're buying in to the inflammatory tone of the article.

No one is talking about actively destroying religion! Atheists don't go out in the night and kidnap religious people to brainwash them! Religion is an extremely dominant force in government and culture, and 'militant' Atheists like this simply want to level the playing field by coaxing secularization along. As I said, religious fundamentalism has led to serious problems in the United States when it comes to elected officials. Gay marriage, anyone?

The people who are complaining about the Jedi aren't trying to destroy religion, they just want accurate census numbers because they don't want the UK to appear more religious than it is by having atheists sign up as Jedists.

But on the other hand, there are a lot of people who feel like the government has no business knowing their religion and sign Jedi because of this. And you know what? They're probably right. The census should just include a "prefer not to answer" option and the problem would probably be solved.

But you're wrong about militant atheists, some of them DO want to wipe out religion. Not all of them by any means, but some. They're nut-jobs and they give a bad name to the other atheists.

Read the original post. Similar Squirrel mentioned removing the cancer of religion. I was not talking about atheists in general, I was talking to him specifically.

similar.squirrel:
They're right. Taking the piss is funny up to a point, but botching an attempt at furthering secularization is taking it a bit far.
You will not be able to excise the cancer of religion by laughing at it, that's for sure.

EDIT: I meant to reply to Mechanixis, sorry.

It's alright, I replied to that guy too (similar squirrel). Pretty sure he's just a troll though. ;)

ReiverCorrupter:

similar.squirrel:
They're right. Taking the piss is funny up to a point, but botching an attempt at furthering secularization is taking it a bit far.
You will not be able to excise the cancer of religion by laughing at it, that's for sure.

Pfft. It's not the government's job to "excise the cancer of religion." If you want to convert everyone to atheism then you should go burn the churches yourself. I'm sure society will be much better then right? It's not like secular ideas like nationalism and Social Darwinism ever lead to anything bad. LOL.

I say wait until genetic engineering improves. Then we can just order mandatory enhancements removing the herd instinct. We should probably make everyone less social too, there's no point and identifying one's self with a group more often leads to hatred than anything good. We might need to get rid of emotion altogether. Vulcan style. Yeah, I like the sound of that.

I hate to say it, but the people who are putting jedi are doing it for the lulz.

Don't these people know what happens when you tell people to stop doing something for the lulz?

summerof2010:
More ranting

Take a look at your post and see all the times you have been flat out rude to me. And when you decided not to be rude, you still printed what you would have said if you were being rude.

I've tried to make this concise, I've tried to make this loquacious. You simply won't see the entire point of this argument. (And has already been made by others)

"Jedi's" don't care about Atheism. They're not doing it to support/discredit either side of the religion. They're doing it to fuck the census.

Why can't you see that? Therefore all the Atheists here are doing is trying to get support for their cause - from people who have already made up their mind.

BTW: FoundationBeyondBelief. See what I mean? Can't help to have a pop.

They did it because they wanted to encourage people to be open about their lack of belief in a society that doesn't necessarily accept that about them.

Ok, here's the thing. Christians need/want/require churches. Muslims need/want/require Mosques.

Atheists...are only united in their belief that God doesn't exist. And it is a belief because it's not provable. Their "Theoreum", if you want to bandy words around.

So...the only uniting factor of Atheists, which is what the census uses to distribute money is...nothing.

The "Jedi", on the other hand, believe that Star Wars is a pretty good film, and there should be money put towards saving it.

The "Browncoats" believe that Nathan Fillon should be give back Firefly.

Atheists have no common belief - and no belief at all if you believe the R&P forums.

What makes an Atheist different to any other person? Is it just that he states that God doesn't exist? Then what "need" has he that is not fulfilled for all others?

Jedi? Why would I want to be a Jedi? If I'm gonna put something from a good sci-fi thing I'm at least gonna be british about it!

*ticks Time Lord instead*

Wow.
This made me laugh out loud. I needed that.

Screw these guys, I already wrote Jedi.

Seanchaidh:

coolerthanice21:
Seriously, their not saying that no one should believe in Jediism. Their saying that LYING on a census form gives the government inaccurate information that they base decisions off of. Why are so many people not understanding that?!

Because knee-jerk reactions against "uptight atheists" are in fashion.

Indeed, how dare a group of people who generally like empiricism put forth the notion that accurate information is a good thing. Humorless assholes, obviously...

I think it's more of the thread's title. "UK Atheists hope to Eliminate Jedi Population". When people are already incensed or worked up about something, they tend to just see correlations to bolster their anger.

But the truth of the matter is, between the Religious and Non, there's always a need for bravado. "you're so stupid, how can you believe X". Why can't we just shrug and leave each other alone? I almost guarantee that most of the people (Non-Religious and Pro) would be laughing together if this was about Ethnic Background and people put Drell from the Mass Effect series.

The_root_of_all_evil:

summerof2010:
More ranting

Take a look at your post and see all the times you have been flat out rude to me. And when you decided not to be rude, you still printed what you would have said if you were being rude.

I've tried to make this concise, I've tried to make this loquacious. You simply won't see the entire point of this argument. (And has already been made by others)

"Jedi's" don't care about Atheism. They're not doing it to support/discredit either side of the religion. They're doing it to fuck the census.

Why can't you see that? Therefore all the Atheists here are doing is trying to get support for their cause - from people who have already made up their mind.

BTW: FoundationBeyondBelief. See what I mean? Can't help to have a pop.

They did it because they wanted to encourage people to be open about their lack of belief in a society that doesn't necessarily accept that about them.

Ok, here's the thing. Christians need/want/require churches. Muslims need/want/require Mosques.

Atheists...are only united in their belief that God doesn't exist. And it is a belief because it's not provable. Their "Theoreum", if you want to bandy words around.

So...the only uniting factor of Atheists, which is what the census uses to distribute money is...nothing.

The "Jedi", on the other hand, believe that Star Wars is a pretty good film, and there should be money put towards saving it.

The "Browncoats" believe that Nathan Fillon should be give back Firefly.

Atheists have no common belief - and no belief at all if you believe the R&P forums.

What makes an Atheist different to any other person? Is it just that he states that God doesn't exist? Then what "need" has he that is not fulfilled for all others?

1. a theorem is something that has been proven. a hypothesis is something that has not.

2. the uniting factor of atheists is that they dont believe a god exists.

3. the more atheists there are, the less theists there are, the less money needed to be wasted on clearly invented, arbitrary balderash.

4. what makes an atheist different to "any other person"? you mean to theists? that they dont believe in god where "any other person" does.

5. the need... or lack of need for public money to be wasted on humouring his fairy tales.

ObsidianJones:

Seanchaidh:

coolerthanice21:
Seriously, their not saying that no one should believe in Jediism. Their saying that LYING on a census form gives the government inaccurate information that they base decisions off of. Why are so many people not understanding that?!

Because knee-jerk reactions against "uptight atheists" are in fashion.

Indeed, how dare a group of people who generally like empiricism put forth the notion that accurate information is a good thing. Humorless assholes, obviously...

I think it's more of the thread's title. "UK Atheists hope to Eliminate Jedi Population". When people are already incensed or worked up about something, they tend to just see correlations to bolster their anger.

But the truth of the matter is, between the Religious and Non, there's always a need for bravado. "you're so stupid, how can you believe X". Why can't we just shrug and leave each other alone? I almost guarantee that most of the people (Non-Religious and Pro) would be laughing together if this was about Ethnic Background and people put Drell from the Mass Effect series.

i just laughed. and i think thats an awesome idea.

Conor147:

5. the need... or lack of need for public money to be wasted on humouring his fairy tales.

Ping! Point proven. Thanks for that.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 . . . 27 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here