No Dragon Age 2 for Suspended BioWare Forumite - UPDATED

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I still support EA and Bioware, sure it is extreme, but the lack of evidence that the comment were in those exact words (ban victims tend to lack in the details when they fight their ban). Also if he digitally downloaded the game why didn't he install and activate when he got it, that way he could have avoided the entire mess.
Also it is only a 72 hour ban if I read right, so he can't play the game for a few days. I was going to have to wait until next week (pay day) to pick up my pre-order (but then I won $30 on a scratch off so I didn't have to wait). Think of it as delayed gratification.

No sympathy on my part (well maybe a tiny bit)

EDIT:
I do not mean for my comments to seem like "haha you got banned" I mean more in the terms play by the rules and don't do/say anything dumb and you will be fine. Jackass comments always have the chance for punishment in the future (think before you type)

Big Brother is watching indeed.

TheRealGoochman:
I still support EA and Bioware, sure it is extreme, but the lack of evidence that the comment were in those exact words (ban victims tend to lack in the details when they fight their ban). Also if he digitally downloaded the game why didn't he install and activate when he got it, that way he could have avoided the entire mess.

No sympathy on my part

EDIT:
I do not mean for my comments to seem like "haha you got banned" I mean more in the terms play by the rules and don't do/say anything dumb and you will be fine. Jackass comments always have the chance for punishment in the future (think before you type)

Bad behavior on the forums is no reason to prevent him from playing games and DLC that he bought.

I read somewhere that he didn't get his code right away so he couldn't activate it. Not that it matters since a forum ban shouldn't prevent you playing games you paid for.

And then EA branded the forum ban as... SUPERBAN.
Oh, wait.
Nothing super about it isn't it...

This hits rather close to home, actually. I bought the expansion to Red Alert 3, "Uprising", straight from EA's store. But because I had removed the download (assuming it was just going to take up wasted space), it wouldn't let me download it ever again. So when I got a new computer, you can bet your ass I was pissed off that I couldn't play the game I'd already bought.

What the hell is wrong with EA? Seriously, what the hell?

I feel like boycotting them now. Both Bioware and EA. I don't care, this is unacceptable, and I will not accept it, for it is unacceptable.

I'm a bit confused as to all of these "SUE EA!" comments. His case would never, ever hold up in court. Why? Because he broke rules that are clearly defined in the EA Terms of Service. That would be like me complaining that my school sent me home for wearing jeans and a t-shirt to class when the rules stated everyone had to wear a uniform.

Is the 72 hour ban a bit draconian? Well, yes. Are they in the right to do as they wish to someone on their forums? Absolutely. This wouldn't even be an issue if he had installed prior to his post. Their DRM is clearly a faulty system, but it is their decision to use it.

No one is making anyone buy EA games. You agree to their rules once you do. Freedom of speech is irrelevant in a private institution.

Garak73:

TheRealGoochman:
I still support EA and Bioware, sure it is extreme, but the lack of evidence that the comment were in those exact words (ban victims tend to lack in the details when they fight their ban). Also if he digitally downloaded the game why didn't he install and activate when he got it, that way he could have avoided the entire mess.

No sympathy on my part

EDIT:
I do not mean for my comments to seem like "haha you got banned" I mean more in the terms play by the rules and don't do/say anything dumb and you will be fine. Jackass comments always have the chance for punishment in the future (think before you type)

Bad behavior on the forums is no reason to prevent him from playing games and DLC that he bought.

I read somewhere that he didn't get his code right away so he couldn't activate it. Not that it matters since a forum ban shouldn't prevent you playing games you paid for.

Sure it is extreme, but it proves the point of think before you act. On a forum connected to EA's system (a system that controls your gaming account), you should think about ALL possible repercussions about what you post. Not thinking about the possible outcome that he would be unable to activate his game due to his account being temporarily shut down is poor judgment.

As for not getting the code. If he wanted the game to be ready, call customer support give your information, get the code. 10-20 minutes taken, but the ability to install and to possibly have avoided this unplayable game mess.

I firmly believe that EA is not in the wrong.

(AGAIN not trying to be a jerk with these comments, I am trying to relay what I was taught to be common sense, and put my opinion into the pot to contribute to this discussion. Not trying to be a hater)

I usually buy every new game that comes out for my systems, however i think i might just check ea off my list. it would be something else if he insulted another forum member or said something racist, blah blah blah, but bashing the company?! That is like getting a ban for giving an EA game a bad review or rating on thier forums.

I understand the forum ban. they can make whatever rules they want, but crossing it over into you can't play your game that you paid for being an idiot on the forums seems in itself idiotic.

I said this in the thread before this, but I guess the discussion has moved here.

I place the blame much more on EA here than on BioWare. As the BioWare rep said, they basically have no choice but to use EA's crappy (and legally questionable) forum rules.

My respect for EA goes down a lot here, but I'm definitely not pointing any fingers at BioWare.

On another note, though, can't this guy just make a new EA account and activate the game on there? It's not like DA2 has any multiplayer, so I don't really see the downside of playing it on a different account.

Well, EA cant do anything if i say right now EA IS GAMING CANCER.

What an absolutely ludicrous system - that this is even possible is truly a failure that somebody somewhere really ought to be held accountable for, because there is just no sound business case for allowing it to happen.

Think of what Dragon Age II is for a moment - a single player RPG, albeit one that links to a social/EA account to determine unlocks, dangle DLC in front of you (at some point or right now depending on whether you have the Signature Edition or not), or upload your "in game accomplishments" so uninterested strangers can (probably not) gawk at them on said social site.

Now ask yourself - is there any situation imaginable where not allowing paying customers to play that game would benefit either the company's bottom line (via word of mouth reputation) or the experience of other Dragon Age 2 players? If you didn't just think "No, of course not, that would be stupid", then I'm afraid you are insane (my condolences). Obviously there is no benefit from preventing abrasive jerks playing a single-player game - it's not like they can replicate their behavior in-game and drive off other customers, now can they? The only possible outcome of a forum suspension/ban equating to a lockout is bad publicity.

In other words, this is completely retarded - maybe it made sense to somebody at EA to link forum conduct with your ability to play the damn games you buy from them, but they were obviously thinking of multi-player titles with persistent online communities at the time if they were ever not crazy assholes with the business sense God gave goldfish. Doing that sort of thing, while quite polarizing and doubtless bound to generate some negative word of mouth, might still benefit you because the community playing that game appreciates not having jerks around. But nobody cares if I play Dragon Age 2 or not, it's a single-player game; ban me from getting access to a legally purchased copy of the game because of conduct on a forum though?

Yeah, now everyone who reads that story hates you - this is not a beneficial business condition at all. Way to think things through jackass who made that stupid, stupid decision, you should be proud of yourself. Oh wait, no you shouldn't, because you've created a system that can only ever make you look bad while also reducing the potential for future revenues; there is a reason shopkeepers do not traditionally verbally abuse and then proceed to pistol whip their customers - most of them probably don't like that and wouldn't come back (unless that's your business model, in which case your weird clientele would be cool with it), you might get sued, and it's just so much more trouble than the satisfaction you derive from being a jerk is really worth.

As satisfying as it is to stomp on somebody else for your own amusement, businesses have a very simple goal - making money. This can't possibly help with that, ergo somebody really should be out of a job for allowing this ridiculous scenario to even play out in the first place - your company would be better off without whoever thought this was a good idea.

Petromir:

dududf:
Huh. So they can arbitrarily deny you to play your game.

No they can't they have to be able to prove you broke the ToS of the license. If the ToS is deamed reasonable by the court then they can uphold the ban. Not all of the clasuses will pass that test I'd recon, but this one may well.

So asking a question in a sassful tone is enough to violate the ToS. That seems pretty god damn arbitrary no matter how you spin it.
image
what in the holy hell is this. I don't even wanna know what a genetical godins is.

Timbydude:
I said this in the thread before this, but I guess the discussion has moved here.

I place the blame much more on EA here than on BioWare. As the BioWare rep said, they basically have no choice but to use EA's crappy (and legally questionable) forum rules.

My respect for EA goes down a lot here, but I'm definitely not pointing any fingers at BioWare.

On another note, though, can't this guy just make a new EA account and activate the game on there? It's not like DA2 has any multiplayer, so I don't really see the downside of playing it on a different account.

DA2 offers bonuses like Blood Dragon Armor for having it on the same account as DAO and/or ME2.

That doesn't matter though, in the end why should he have to create a new account? A forum ban should not have his PAID content anyway.

General statement follows:

For the 50th fuckin' time, it doesn't matter what the TOS or EULA says if it conflicts with consumer protection laws. It's akin buying a TV from Sony then badmouthing Sony on their forums and having Sony take your TV away for 3 days because it was in the TOS or EULA. If that sounds ridiculous, that's because it is. This is no different.

So I guess that answered his question with a yes.

I read this last night on a diffrent topic but what I have to say is the same This is bullshit and Respect is lost from Bioware and EA well it duesnt have any

Garak73:

Timbydude:
I said this in the thread before this, but I guess the discussion has moved here.

I place the blame much more on EA here than on BioWare. As the BioWare rep said, they basically have no choice but to use EA's crappy (and legally questionable) forum rules.

My respect for EA goes down a lot here, but I'm definitely not pointing any fingers at BioWare.

On another note, though, can't this guy just make a new EA account and activate the game on there? It's not like DA2 has any multiplayer, so I don't really see the downside of playing it on a different account.

DA2 offers bonuses like Blood Dragon Armor for having it on the same account as DAO and/or ME2.

That doesn't matter though, in the end why should he have to create a new account? A forum ban should not have his PAID content anyway.

I wasn't saying I agree with what happened; I was just wondering why he didn't do what seemed to me to be an obvious solution. EA's policy is completely ridiculous, and now that pretty much the entire Internet has descended upon BioWare's forums, I'm assuming something will come out of this.

fealubryne:

ddq5:
Funny how the comment that got him suspended is given credence by Bioware's response.

Heh, for real.

Yep.

I wish the guy would sue EA.

Petromir:
simple moral of the story is if you cantt trust yourself to remain civil while critising, then don't post on an account linked to your game. simples

No, that's only the moral that EA and other publishers with these ridiculous DRM schemes want you to believe. The real moral of this story is that regardless of whether or not you've purchases a game legally, you don't own it and the publisher can prevent you from playing it based upon arbitrary rules of conduct enforced by people just like you and me, people that are subject to emotions and outbursts and the occasional inappropriate comment.

The second, yet just as important, moral is that game piracy is the way to go if you want to play games. There are so many hoops to jump through to play a game if you've purchased it legally that it's actually a deterrent for many people who would otherwise buy the game.

Publishers are treating their consumers like the goose that lays the golden egg; they're going to gouge us for everything they can, for as long as they can and if that includes reaching into our pockets with microtransactions, day one DLC and pay-to-play schemes or prohibiting us from playing our games because we don't have an internet connection (for whatever reason) or we say something rude on a web forum, they will only have themselves to blame when the goose lies dead and their revenue is gone.

Outlaw Torn:
So it is pretty much the next step for DRM? If you aren't nice to the publisher you can't play the game. Next you will have to send them an Xmas card every year otherwise you have a perma-ban.

lol......im gonna be the guy to make 20 fake accounts and just send nasty pictures of things...just...gross things....that make you...well wanna be a better person because something that nasty is in the world

If the forums rules say: "BY using this service you agree not to talk about onions, if you get caught talking of onions your account can be suspended of all services", if you used the service and talked of onions, take your punishment like a man/woman/other gender... There is no freedom of speech on private channels... And yes, channels owned by a company are private, they aren't government's and funded by tax money, they are owned by a private being, a company - company is a being, as it is something...

Edit...

Jabberwock xeno:

fealubryne:

ddq5:
Funny how the comment that got him suspended is given credence by Bioware's response.

Heh, for real.

Yep.

I wish the guy would sue EA.

Of what, being denied of service after breaking rules of the service?
See my above example... If they say you don't talk about onions, you don't talk about onions in there...

Vakz:

danpascooch:
I disagree, he should pirate it, make 100 copies, distribute them to as many friends as he can, and then throw a molotov at the EA HQ parking lot.

Not to be "that guy", but you should probably watch out for suspicious vans and men in suit with in-ear headsets for a few days.. just sayin'..

I don't carry around a balisong for nothing :)

SinisterGehe:

Jabberwock xeno:

fealubryne:

Heh, for real.

Yep.

I wish the guy would sue EA.

Of what, being denied of service after breaking rules of the service?

Precisely that. You see, denial of service is actually illegal. Breaking the ToS is not. Do you really think a set of rules that includes a rule that says "we can come up with more rules if we want to" is going to be taken seriously and hold up in court?

"Specific EA Services may also post additional rules that apply to your conduct on those services."

Source: http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/#section11

Holy fuck, they stole his money because he said something they don't like? That is nonsense.

I can see it now, EA stocks plummet because people are ONLY pirating their games because you can't be locked out of a pirated version.

This would be all the reason anyone who already doesn't like EA would need to not actually buy their products any more.

I got banned from an EA forum for speaking out against their crap customer service. Luckily I used a different user account else I wouldn't be able to play any of the games I legally purchased.

Just another example of why I don't game on PC or join game developer forums. I'm not siding with either party in this entire fiasco because we can't trust the guy to tell the truth. EA's shady business practices aside, he decided to test the mod's patience and got burned for it, end of story.

Just more reason to not game on PC.

About the only thing they've done is validate his point. Thanks Bioware, I won't be needing anything you put out anymore.

If he agreed to that before using the forum, then that's fine.

dududf:

Petromir:

dududf:
Huh. So they can arbitrarily deny you to play your game.

No they can't they have to be able to prove you broke the ToS of the license. If the ToS is deamed reasonable by the court then they can uphold the ban. Not all of the clasuses will pass that test I'd recon, but this one may well.

So asking a question in a sassful tone is enough to violate the ToS. That seems pretty god damn arbitrary no matter how you spin it.
image
what in the holy hell is this. I don't even wanna know what a genetical godins is.

Looks like "genetical goolins" to me...

OT: From what I understand, you can never be forced to follow any sort of waiver/agreement that breaks the law (and therefore infringes on your rights etc) so the important thing isn't really if it's something he agreed to already but whether it is even legal in the first place. A buddy of mine who majored in business law told me this "lever let a waiver form get in the way of a lawsuit" which basically means who cares what the agreement says? If it's illegal for them to do something it doesn't matter if you agreed to it or not, it's still illegal.

So the real question is is it legal for EA to restrict access to something they've already sold someone just because they have a big mouth? I guess that'll depend on the laws this falls under... I personally think it's retarded, but if everyone listened to me the world's problems would be solved and what's the fun in that? :P

AC10:
This is like insulting microsoft then having them disable your windows OS for 3 days.
IMO if someone speaks an unpopular opinion on a forum it should not infringe upon anything else but access to the forum.

Followed by, say, Microsoft Office being permanently disabled.

Way to encourage people to legitimately purchase your games.

ToS agreements are pretty hard to enforce, and this is a blatant abuse of power. Particulairly because a ToS contract is exclusively available after the purchaise you are essentially signing a blank contract with the purchaise of the game, then get home and find that after you have opened it and cant return it that the developer has included a clause allowing him to come into your home and drink your milk.
As for this, Dragon age Origins pissed me off with some DRM/steam issues that only got resolved when i was given a link to download my DLC (and some stuff i didnt actually pay for) outside of Biowares main site. I, before the game came out decided i would not buy a new game from Bioware. im still paying for mass effect because i think its one of the best things out there i will just hate it and feel like im selling out. This is just more encouragement for me to stay away, i generally don't use specific game forums, but if i want community help for a problem how do i know what language will get my game shut down.

This is going to be a PR nightmare for EA. How can they not realize they just completely validated the points he was making about their company?

cursedseishi:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

Trust me, it isn't nearly as shady as misleading customers with the Signature Edition, multiple copies were shipped with nothing but the manual included, with EA and Bioware knowing about it well in advance.

Wait, they did what? Are you serious?

I have mixed opinions on this on a lot of levels. It's hard to say whether his ban was deserved or not without more information, though if he's serious and he was criticizing EA and Bioware on their own forums, where they allegedly encourage criticism, that's a big problem as far as I'm concerned, though it goes into some very touchy territory.

That said, I don't see where being offensive on their forums, even in the worst way, should in any way influance his abillity to play their games, even online games like MMOS, unless the person is somehow being distruptive within the game. Heck if Activision/Blizzard did this they would have banned over half their play base given the conduct on a lot of the WoW forums.

I think this kind of problem is getting to the heart of an issue I talk about once and a while, with the abillity of private citizens to control information. Right now our freedom of speech rights only apply to the goverment, and truthfully I find it a bit disturbing when private businesses can hold power far in excess of the goverment by controlling platforms like internet websites and the like.

I think we're looking at a situation where we need more complicated rules for things like internet websites and forums, akin to things like zoning laws. The old arguement "this site is like my house, and I have the right to control it" is rapidly losing relevence as The Internet increases in scale and the issues in complexity. I see it as being akin to situations with privatly owned public property, where by opening something up to the public the rights of the owner are limited by the liscences involved and the laws relevent to the zone that it's in.

I see what EA is doing as being tantamount to someone opening their private property up as a public park (sort of like what Harkness did down here in Connecticut for those who might be familiar with it) and then deciding to not only expel you, but rip refreshments you purchused on site out of your hands, because you criticized how they cut the grass.

When something is open to the public entirely differant sets of rules can apply, and ownership doesn't nessicarly count for much outside of specific guidelines. I've been around and personally seen American Indians expelled from their own casinos on tribal land on the say so of non-Indian management as one example (though the situations involved have been fairly complicated, but again it comes down to operating agreements and the like).

I doubt anything major will happen as a result of this, but the very fact that abuses of private information control are snowballing is very disturbing. When we're getting to the point where not only can someone banish you from a publically viewable forum for criticizing them on topic, but they can also wreck associated property, that's a problem. It also gets to the root of a lot of the problems with digital distribution, this "way of the future" puts too little power in the hands of the consumers and this demonstrates why.

Honestly, even if the guy said nasty things about EA/Bioware's policies (and let's be honest, a lot of people have been critical of the changes to games like Dragon Age 2), they should be overjoyed that the guy still spent a fairly decent chunk of change to support them. Exiling/silencing the guy, cutting off his property, and pocketing the money is beyond the pale.

Depending on what he actually said, I might support him being suspended, but they don't have any right to effectively seize/lock out his property. If they do, they shouldn't have it and it's a sign that the laws need to be adapted.

That's my thoughts at any rate. I'll also be blunt that I think it's the height of ridiculousness that EA is taking action to silence critics as well. Sure, people have turned their attention more towards Activision in recent years, but EA was the "big bad" of gaming for a long time, and did a lot to try and change their image. With antics like this I'm going to laugh if they decide to pull the "oh poor us, boo hoo, why does everyone hate us so unfairly" schtick again.

I mean honestly, when I buy an EA or Bioware game I'm supposed to be scared about expressing disappointment about it, for fear that they will lock me out of my propery, or any games I might like better down the road? I mean, even if they ignore me in paticular, isn't hearing opinions, even negative ones, how they are supposed to learn to improve their games? To speak for myself, I don't like the way they simplified "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" in the latest iterations. A lot of people don't agree with me, but does that mean I should remain silent, or that there isn't nessicarly going to be any benefit down the road from hearing what I (and others) think?... and heck, even if I'm totally disagreed with, what's wrong with having a differant opinion? I mean I bought their bloody game, and still play the thing even if I think it ocould be better. What's more even if I'm negative I obviously CARE enough to say something, a sullen silence (not caring) is far worse than disagreement, it shows that I care enough to say something.

I'm rambling... it's just that I think this whole situation is ridiculous. Why even have forums and try and solicity opinions and discussion, if all you want to hear is how wonderful you are.

Even if I'm overreacting and the guy was bad enough to be banned, they still shouldn't cut him off for what he paid for.

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