No Dragon Age 2 for Suspended BioWare Forumite - UPDATED

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headshotcatcher:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

To you and almost all other replies:

The suspension was 72 hours! That's three days, not a lifetime..

Doesn't change the fact that if someone were to get a lifetime ban, their games are fucked.

And that's still really fucking stupid.

JourneyThroughHell:

headshotcatcher:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

To you and almost all other replies:

The suspension was 72 hours! That's three days, not a lifetime..

Doesn't change the fact that if someone were to get a lifetime ban, their games are fucked.

And that's still really fucking stupid.

I get where you're coming from but I mean if someone were to get banned in a game because of what they say it's practically the same offense, but you probably wouldn't mind it as much.

Also I'd like to add that 'Nya nya fucking stupid' doesn't really make me respect you as a discussion partner, you should watch/mind that.

http://games.slashdot.org/story/08/10/31/004213/EA-Forum-Ban-Will-Now-Mean-EA-Game-Ban
It seems this isn't the first time this sort of thing has come up, apparently it was a "mistake" and the "...information was incorrect" 3 years ago too.

This is in regards to an EA forum ban resulting in an EA community ban and locking people out of games.
Funny how this sort of "glitch" has just come to their attention after they denied it happening in the first place.

Unfortunately the original posts by EA staff have since been removed, it's still a bold faced lie. Nothing but damage control. Again.

Edit: Please take note, the article is dated 2008
Second edit: This article is EVEN BETTER http://www.shacknews.com/article/55656/ea-not-banning-game-access

And within this article (also from 2008): http://www.shacknews.com/article/55647/ea-threatens-game-bans-for

"To reiterate my previous stance, I certainly sympathize with the plight of those that have been tasked with watching over a game's official forums. But I really can't believe that EA has allowed this to pop up once again." [Chris Faylor, 2008]

It is suggested that this type of thing had happened prior.

I dunno it's a tough one to call... are they really this bad at lying or are they truly that incompetent?

moral: don't be a whiney hipster douche. "all corporations are evil. they just want money! Im gonna go buy their new game anyway." had it comin

headshotcatcher:

I get where you're coming from but I mean if someone were to get banned in a game because of what they say it's practically the same offense, but you probably wouldn't mind it as much.

Also I'd like to add that 'Nya nya fucking stupid' doesn't really make me respect you as a discussion partner, you should watch/mind that.

As if those thinly-veiled accusations of hypocrisy showed "respect".

No, it's not the same thing. It's not the same offense.

You don't expect to get banned from CoD for trash-talking at Halo. And you clearly don't expect to get screwed out of a single-player game you already bought for saying something about its publisher.

JourneyThroughHell:

headshotcatcher:

I get where you're coming from but I mean if someone were to get banned in a game because of what they say it's practically the same offense, but you probably wouldn't mind it as much.

Also I'd like to add that 'Nya nya fucking stupid' doesn't really make me respect you as a discussion partner, you should watch/mind that.

As if those thinly-veiled accusations of hypocrisy showed "respect".

No, it's not the same thing. It's not the same offense.

You don't expect to get banned from CoD for trash-talking at Halo. And you clearly don't expect to get screwed out of a single-player game you already bought for saying something about its publisher.

Then compare it to someone walking around in a Walmart shouting how much they are sellouts and how horrible corporatism is, would you blame the Walmart personnel if they decided to remove him from the store?
If someone is trash talking about an EA game on an EA forum, I'd say they have the right to deny service to him. In this case the marketplace service was linked to the same account, so I'd blame him for jeopardising his own account.

I know that he should be able to speak out about stuff and whatnot, but he could have done it in a less provocative manner so that doesn't excuse him either.

Also I'd like to point out that it was a mistake anyway and that he got his service back.

headshotcatcher:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

To you and almost all other replies:

The suspension was 72 hours! That's three days, not a lifetime..

I don't know how much free time you have or what your experience with traditional RPGs, but many people have to work/study and don't have time for the long gaming sessions these games require.
In order for some people to be able to play properly, they need to make time especially for that (some working people actually take sick days).
Not being able to play for 3 days could mean not playing for a month or more.
So yeah, some guy decided to say stuff on the forum - still not a reason to stop him from playing. forum conduct shouldn't have anything to do with accessing a game you purchased.

headshotcatcher:

Then compare it to someone walking around in a Walmart shouting how much they are sellouts and how horrible corporatism is, would you blame the Walmart personnel if they decided to remove him from the store?

Can I blame them for:

Remove him? Nope.

Take all of the stuff he previously bought from there? Yup.

headshotcatcher:

Also I'd like to point out that it was a mistake anyway and that he got his service back.

1) My original post was before the update.
2) Really shady deal, that is. One BioWare guy says "we meant it", another one says "it's a mistake".

Andy Chalk:

UPDATE: BioWare Community Coordinator Chris Priestly issued a statement on the situation indicating that the whole thing was a mistake.

"EA strictly enforces the code of conduct at Social.BioWare.com. If a player violates the rules by using profanity, they will be temporarily banned," he wrote. "Unfortunately, there was an error in the system that accidentally suspended a user's entire account. Immediately upon learning of the glitch, EA restored the user's macro account and apologized for the inconvenience."

It's not clear how this jibes with Stanley Woo's explanation that the loss of game access was a valid part of the suspension, except possibly that some forum transgressions do warrant it but v_ware's in particular did not. Whatever the reason, he's apparently back in action and in this case, at least, all is well.

Oh, it's perfectly clear to me.
The contradiction between the two statements means that EA realized the legal liability and rectified it before anyone would seriously consider filing a claim. Good legal move, and a good PR move.

And that, my friends, is why I use an Xbox

Ok so this chap Chris Priestly at EA comes out and says "It was a mistake".

Maybe it was. Maybe EA are genuinely horrified that this has happened and are being torn a seriously big new arsehole over it (well they are here at least) and so got it sorted, sharpish!

Somehow I doubt it though...

Like any big businessman/woman and, sadly, many a shoulder-chip-sporting nerd who sudenly finds him/herself with a bit of power are criticised by those "below" them (That'd be us, then) they immediately fly into indignant rage and throw the proverbial switch (You know, the big ol' thing that makes bad shit happens in hundreds of old films!) in the hope we will be cowed and never again dare to speak out against their betters. I say this because I have seen it with my own two eyes time and again and I can tell you that bigwigs HATE it when some "grotty little oik" rightly calls them out on it.

I'm also guessing that EA were not expecting the resultant shit-storm and nothing hurts sales like bad-rep and so gave Mr. Priestly the unenviable task of facing the music (even if it's in his job description...rather him than me!) and issuing the "we cocked it up" statement, which blames, as they so often do, a "glitch".

Wardy

loremazd:

Carlos Alexandre:
Anyone defending EA/BioWare here is completely in the wrong.

I defend them because the recinded and apologised to the offended party.

Of course, no one's going to read that.

I wasn't aware.

BabyRaptor:

ecoho:
Ok this is bullshit i have to say if i bought a game and couldnt play it because of my opinon im sorry but this is something id sue EA over and win on first amendment rights or at the very least would have my money refunded. EA you pull this shit too much you will lose in the end.

Your First Amendment rights only apply to the government telling you that you can't say something. EA is not the government.

i was hopeing someone would bring this up. they are based in the US therefore it is a violation to the first ammendment. since he voiced an opion and lost access to his paid product they could also be charged with theft if he money was not refunded.

I'd like to thank the two posters that gave lenghty replies to my post about ToS agreements. I have one big question left, though.

I acknowledge that when we buy games we actually purchase a license to use a copyright protected software, and only own the CD and box. I don't agree with this but that's how it is.
Now, EA's ToS clearly states that when EA terminates your account there's no refund. So, when it comes to digital distribution, or any other form of distribution where you can't return the game and playing requires "dialing home", the publisher can cancel their part of the deal, but you can't. They can at any given time turn your purchase into a bait and switch move in their favor, taking both the game and your money, while the consumer can't even return the game and get a refund whenever he wishes.

Is this legal?

I'd sue 'em until they burst into flames, "error" or not.

Uriel-238:

MorphingDragon:
Plenty of times EULAs have been upheld. The most recent example I can think of is Apple vs Psystar...

Why do I get the feeling that Judge Alsup now gets free Apple hardware for life?

238U.

Don't be absurd.

Psystar was clearly violating some of the most fundamental DMCA and Copyright laws of the USA. The reason why the EULA specifically was upheld was because Psystar's lawyers were attacking Apple's EULA directly, not violations of DMCA bla bla bla... (They had already tried this and lost)

Temporary or not, what is said on the forums shouldn't affect game sales. If the guy stood by what he said he wouldn't have bought DA2 and this issue wouldn't even have come to be. As it is, I feel his purchase speaks more volumes than one little line in a forum thread and EA should appreciate the money more than a little overperceived slight.

EA, get over yourself. You aren't Activision. But you are well on your way to being worse than them.

Venereus:
I'd like to thank the two posters that gave lenghty replies to my post about ToS agreements. I have one big question left, though.

I acknowledge that when we buy games we actually purchase a license to use a copyright protected software, and only own the CD and box. I don't agree with this but that's how it is.
Now, EA's ToS clearly states that when EA terminates your account there's no refund. So, when it comes to digital distribution, or any other form of distribution where you can't return the game and playing requires "dialing home", the publisher can cancel their part of the deal, but you can't. They can at any given time turn your purchase into a bait and switch move in their favor, taking both the game and your money, while the consumer can't even return the game and get a refund whenever he wishes.

Is this legal?

Only when actual federal or state laws apply. As of this time, EULA's and TOA's are not legal documents and not enforceable in any court. To get them enforced EA would have to send you an actual contract to sign with legal witness to hold it up.
That would be a lot of legal bills.

ecoho:

BabyRaptor:

ecoho:
Ok this is bullshit i have to say if i bought a game and couldnt play it because of my opinon im sorry but this is something id sue EA over and win on first amendment rights or at the very least would have my money refunded. EA you pull this shit too much you will lose in the end.

Your First Amendment rights only apply to the government telling you that you can't say something. EA is not the government.

i was hopeing someone would bring this up. they are based in the US therefore it is a violation to the first ammendment. since he voiced an opion and lost access to his paid product they could also be charged with theft if he money was not refunded.

What part of 'The government shall make no law...' are you failing to understand? Where they're based has no say in it, because the First Amendment only pertains to the government. EA's forums are a private space owned by them. The government doesn't control that space. Your First Amendment rights only apply in "public" spaces.

I knew they'd backpedal on this. EA doesn't want to be the new Activision, not now that Activision is the new EA.

That's the type of policy that deters me from buying EA games. What's the point of even using their forums if a ban translates to a loss of accessing one's own purchased game? This sounds familiar to me (not sure if so), but it certainly kills any perception of a "community" when EA is involved.

By using the same b.s. social network as EA makes me think that Bioware sold something soul-ish by joining Evil Alliance hee hee.

Varrdy:
snip
Like any big businessman/woman and, sadly, many a shoulder-chip-sporting nerd who sudenly finds him/herself with a bit of power are criticised by those "below" them
snip

Being called a "fucking idiot" is not criticism.
Edit: My bad. "fucking fools"

Anyway. Whether accidental or not, a company should not have the ability to block a customer's perfectly legally purchased game.

I know it's probably already been posted but,

In Soviet Bioware, the corporation plays you!

Gladion:

Anyway. Whether accidental or not, a company should not have the ability to block a customer's perfectly legally purchased game.

I agree, this is a very ridiculous way to run a business. If they're going to have the high "moral" standards to not let this guy play the game he bought they should give him his money back.

Gladion:
Being called a "fucking idiot" is not criticism.
Edit: My bad. "fucking fools"

Anyway. Whether accidental or not, a company should not have the ability to block a customer's perfectly legally purchased game.

On the first point, it could be conisdered harsh criticism but only technically. I didn't know he'd called them "fucking fools" but the line of mine you highlighted in bold still rings true, regardless.

As for your second point, I agree entirely.

Wardy

I like how almost none of the new posters in the thread bothered to read the update.

I also like that the few posters who've noticed the update are calling it a conspiracy. News flash people: if this were SOP, we would have noticed it by now. The glitch story makes sense. Odds are Woo (the moderator who responded to the query) was lazy, and copy-pasted the wrong form-letter response.

Even if EA did this intentionally, Woo mentions in the post that EA Community bans are entirely disconnected from Bioware forum bans, so Bioware had nothing to do with this at all. EA had a technical fuck-up, and the Bioware haters are using it to talk shit about the company they never liked in the first place.

It's not smart business.

But, I do enjoy seeing fools get the crack down.

The offender receives no sympathy from me, but I do scratch my head at poor business practices.

scotth266:
I like how almost none of the new posters in the thread bothered to read the update.

Heh, pretty standard round these parts. Once a topic gets over a hundred replies or so, people start firing off one line responses based entirely on their gut feeling about the thread title or the title of the news article.

First I kind of wonder why this is news. A guy buys a game, can't play it for three days. So?

Honestly, the comment the guy made deserved the probation in the first place. It's stupid comments like that that can ruin forum communities by dragging them into stupid flame fests. His fault in my opinion. Maybe strict penalties like that would get people to behave like decent human beings in forums for a change.

Because it's his game and he paid $70 for it. How dare some outside force decide when and if he's allowed to play his property, even offline?

AMMO Kid:
And that, my friends, is why I use an Xbox

The irony of this post is incredible. X-Box Live moderators can ban you from ever playing online games again on your console. You would have to buy another X-Box. There is no appeal process, no way to fight them, and if you sue, you will be buried in court for so long you'll be left with nothing.

headshotcatcher:
Then compare it to someone walking around in a Walmart shouting how much they are sellouts and how horrible corporatism is, would you blame the Walmart personnel if they decided to remove him from the store?
If someone is trash talking about an EA game on an EA forum, I'd say they have the right to deny service to him. In this case the marketplace service was linked to the same account, so I'd blame him for jeopardising his own account.

Your analogy is terrible. Walking around a Walmart shouting about how terrible Walmart is is considered a public disturbance BY THE LAW. Posting complaints (well written or not) on a forum is not illegal. Not only that, but by posting these complaints, you are not disrupting other customers or employees like you would shouting up a storm in a retail store. It's a forum, how much damage can you really do?

Despite what EA's TOS says, they do NOT have the right to simply cancel your service. The law states that they must either provide the service you paid for or return suitable compensation. This is the law in nearly all developed countries in the world. EA's TOS wouldn't last 5 seconds in court for a case of this type, as long as you didn't break the law.

BabyRaptor:

ecoho:

BabyRaptor:

Your First Amendment rights only apply to the government telling you that you can't say something. EA is not the government.

i was hopeing someone would bring this up. they are based in the US therefore it is a violation to the first ammendment. since he voiced an opion and lost access to his paid product they could also be charged with theft if he money was not refunded.

What part of 'The government shall make no law...' are you failing to understand? Where they're based has no say in it, because the First Amendment only pertains to the government. EA's forums are a private space owned by them. The government doesn't control that space. Your First Amendment rights only apply in "public" spaces.

my apoligies i talked this over with my US government teacher you are correct this is not a violation of the 1st amendment. It is however a violation of civil rights though and theft though the civil rights thing would be hard to argue it is still techicaly a violation.

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

I doubt that is so much from our wonderful coders at Bioware, more the forum Nazi department of EA.

Carlston:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

I doubt that is so much from our wonderful coders at Bioware, more the forum Nazi department of EA.

Everyone blamed IW for absolutely everything, even the prices of the map packs.

I am returning the favour, Escapist.

JourneyThroughHell:

Carlston:

JourneyThroughHell:
As much as they've probably had the rights to do it, it's still a really fucking shady thing to do to your customers, BioWare.

This is terrible. He paid his money. Your rules are bullshit.

I doubt that is so much from our wonderful coders at Bioware, more the forum Nazi department of EA.

Everyone blamed IW for absolutely everything, even the prices of the map packs.

I am returning the favour, Escapist.

Not that i care either way, I just tend not to blame global market effecting decisions on the guy who makes coffee and mops the floors.

Great, now they ruin the policy of Used games AND they're ruining the ability to have an opinion!

Also that 94% review from PCGamer was so bribe. I can imagine some one saying it's an OK game if you like RPGs, but better than the original? Right, make the game feel and look like a freaking cheap Wii hack and slash and just pay everyone to get you good reviews.

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