Superman Director Says New Movie Won't Be a Retread of the Past

Superman Director Says New Movie Won't Be a Retread of the Past

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Director Zack Snyder says that he will respect the Superman canon, but that he's making his own movie out of it, not remaking someone else's.

There have been five Superman movies over the years, four starring Christopher Reeve, and one starring Brandon Routh. But Snyder, the director of 300, Watchmen and the upcoming Sucker Punch, says that when he starts work on the sixth, he's going to act like the others don't exist.

Christopher Reeve gave what many people consider to be the quintessential Superman performance in the late seventies and early eighties, and the 2006 reboot, Superman Returns owed a great deal to those earlier films. Snyder approach will be a little different, however, and he says that while he's going to be respectful to the canon and the comics, it will be his own take on the character, not someone else's.

He compared it to the differences between the Batman movies of the 90s, and Christopher Nolan's relaunch of the character with Batman Begins in 2005. Snyder said that Nolan - who is both a producer and a creative consultant on the movie - was a fantastic person to work with, calling him respectful, helpful and hilarious. Nolan's focus, he said, was on making the movie as good as possible, and that they had a great "give and take" relationship.

As good as the Christopher Reeves movies were - especially the first two - setting them aside is probably for the best. It's been more than thirty years since the first one came out, and the character of Superman has changed and evolved since then, including dying and then coming back to life. It's about time we got a new cinematic vision for Superman, and it looks like that's exactly what Snyder wants to give us.

Source: Hero Complex

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Logan Westbrook:

He compared it to the differences between the Batman movies of the 90s, and Christopher Nolan's relaunch of the character with Batman Begins in 2005.

So, mangling the characters into "everymans", making them "real" with "real" jobs and "real" product placements, loosely elbowing in another slush pile script and then getting one or two star names to sell it on; while hoping for a tragedy to sell it on?

Why not just avoid Hollywood altogether as they've proven they just take names, tack on scripts and sell it wholesale to people desperate for their armful of trash?

Cynical? Moi?

Superman is a dated concept and character. I think we should let it die, and stop trying to make a movie that won't work because of basic logic flaws with the character that the premise is set on.

Dr. Manhattan is the real superman.

Actually the comics place Superman as a real character which I was surprise by, because I always thought differently of him till I read a superman graphic novel.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Logan Westbrook:

He compared it to the differences between the Batman movies of the 90s, and Christopher Nolan's relaunch of the character with Batman Begins in 2005.

So, mangling the characters into "everymans", making them "real" with "real" jobs and "real" product placements, loosely elbowing in another slush pile script and then getting one or two star names to sell it on; while hoping for a tragedy to sell it on?

Why not just avoid Hollywood altogether as they've proven they just take names, tack on scripts and sell it wholesale to people desperate for their armful of trash?

Cynical? Moi?

Everything you described that the Nolan movies supposedly "changed" were present in the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies.

Tim Burton decided to cast average looking Michael Keaton known for his role as "Mr. Mom" as Batman. He turned Bruce Wayne into an average aging everyman with graying curly hair who spoke unexciting lines. Instead of being thieves from the getgo, The Penguin became a politician, Catwoman was a secretary, and The Riddler some geeky engineer. The Burton and Schumacher movies were the epitome of Hollywood excess and product placement. Every actor was an A-list celebrity, and everything featured in those movies were for sale.

And as for tragedy, Anton Furst whose dreamlike and otherworldly vision designed Gotham City, Batman, the Batmobile and etc... committed suicide by leaping off a parking garage between Batman and Batman Returns and the press made a big commotion between those movies.

Henry Cavill is a great actor and he really does look like Superman with his chiseled face. Should be good.

The Youth Counselor:

Everything you described that the Nolan movies supposedly "changed" were present in the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies.

And is why I hate Hollywood. They can't even get their changes straight.

The one change they never did was to return to the original character. Which is what most of us want to see when we see a film based on that character.

The_root_of_all_evil:

The Youth Counselor:

Everything you described that the Nolan movies supposedly "changed" were present in the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies.

And is why I hate Hollywood. They can't even get their changes straight.

The one change they never did was to return to the original character. Which is what most of us want to see when we see a film based on that character.

I disagree. I walked out of Batman Begins, extremely flabbergasted because I had never thought I'd see a true to character Batman in live action.

The_root_of_all_evil:

The Youth Counselor:

Everything you described that the Nolan movies supposedly "changed" were present in the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies.

And is why I hate Hollywood. They can't even get their changes straight.

The one change they never did was to return to the original character. Which is what most of us want to see when we see a film based on that character.

What "original" character? All the popular superheroes were characterized in different ways through the ages, especially Batman. Comics fanboys like to dismiss the camp 60s series with Adam West, but in the big picture, it is as valid as any other Batman characterization. In fact, most people that don't read comics probably know this characterization as THE Batman.

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller was a popular characterization that changed Batman (in the comics) for subsequent years. The Nolan films capture this characterization quite well. I'm a long-time fan of Batman and I loved both Nolan films. The fact that most people had only seen Batman mostly as its Adam West version is one of the reasons the new Batman movies are so popular.

The Youth Counselor:

I disagree. I walked out of Batman Begins, extremely flabbergasted because I had never thought I'd see a true to character Batman in live action.

I disagree. I fell asleep because what they'd given us was The Punisher sans guns. The clue being "superhero" (And FGS don't start the argument again. He is. Deal with it. His super-powers are wealth, security and hyper-learning)

tautologico:

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller was a popular characterization that changed Batman

into a steaming pile of excrement. Miller is a hack that wrote out his own misanthropy.

On topic, I think one of the things that really help Superman Returns back was excessive reverence and respect for the Christopher Reed/Richard Donner movies. Brandon Routh tried to mimic Christopher Reed's acting too much, Lex Luthor was more of a clown than a vicious super villain, and so on.

I don't think we need a grittier/darker Superman, but we could use some new take on the hero, instead of trying to mimic well-liked movies from decades ago.

The_root_of_all_evil:

The Youth Counselor:

I disagree. I walked out of Batman Begins, extremely flabbergasted because I had never thought I'd see a true to character Batman in live action.

I disagree. I fell asleep because what they'd given us was The Punisher sans guns. The clue being "superhero" (And FGS don't start the argument again. He is. Deal with it. His super-powers are wealth, security and hyper-learning)

tautologico:

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller was a popular characterization that changed Batman

into a steaming pile of excrement. Miller is a hack that wrote out his own misanthropy.

Punisher sans guns? Huh? If by the fact that the Punisher is a generic template for action hereos (character survives tragedy, willpower drives him to seek justice and vengeance) I guess but that's such a loose argument it's fallen.

BTW, they never did the Punisher right on screen either.

Has anyone here seen the first Superman movie, recently? Because, as much as I enjoyed it, the movie doesn't hold up, for me. Personally, the only Superman I want to see in live-action film form is the incarnation from the Bruce Timm cartoons.

The_root_of_all_evil:

The Youth Counselor:

I disagree. I walked out of Batman Begins, extremely flabbergasted because I had never thought I'd see a true to character Batman in live action.

I disagree. I fell asleep because what they'd given us was The Punisher sans guns. The clue being "superhero" (And FGS don't start the argument again. He is. Deal with it. His super-powers are wealth, security and hyper-learning)

tautologico:

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller was a popular characterization that changed Batman

into a steaming pile of excrement. Miller is a hack that wrote out his own misanthropy.

You're out of luck then, and it's no use blaming Hollywood, because this Batman has been quite popular in the comics for years, and now is quite popular in the movies too. It's actually surprising that Hollywood has taken so long to follow the comics (not really, Hollywood didn't "get" comics until recently).

I don't know if you have read The Dark Knight Returns. Most people will agree today that Miller is now a hack, but no one thought this of him back then. And this is because he did things that stood out. He's not a fantastic writer, but when his ego was in check he was able to combine great art and atmosphere with appropriate writing. He was a comic book artist, in essence, making stuff that was greater than the individual parts.

The Youth Counselor:

BTW, they never did the Punisher right on screen either.

The instances where they've got Heroes right on screen is close to minimal. Even Spiderman missed out on some key features. Number 1 being the word "Super".

These people aren't the same as us. In Superman's case, never has been. He should always be slightly alien, and Christopher Reeve managed that. His Clark Kent was far more the mask.

Bats, I don't think any actor has pulled it off successfully yet, even Adam West. The Animated Series has nearly nailed it, because Batman is less of a human and more a force of nature. He's V, Sherlock Holmes and Judge Dredd all in one. He's as much a sociopath as Joker, it's just Batman has an honour code.

Unlike Superman, Batman doesn't have a secret ID. He just has times when he's not being Batman. Like Picard, Gandalf, Jules Winnfield or Gordon Freeman, he's above humanity. Homo Supernus. Bruce Wayne doesn't go to the loo, have bad hair days or get dumped. He's the hate myselfGoddam Batman.

That's what they've missed, and what they miss with Superman. They're not men.

tautologico:

I don't know if you have read The Dark Knight Returns.

Read it, loathed it. Possibly got me kicked off a forum when I went into a hate-fuelled spiral on it. ;)

Hope he makes "Death of Superman." That storyline is just awesome!

Let's hope Chris Nolan doesn't deprive this movie of its emotion or theatrics like he does with every fucking movie he makes.

C117:
Hope he makes "Death of Superman." That storyline is just awesome!

glad im not the only one thinking that.

A lot of Nolan hate on the thread, but none for Mr. Snyder? I'm quite surprised.

The_root_of_all_evil:

The Youth Counselor:

BTW, they never did the Punisher right on screen either.

The instances where they've got Heroes right on screen is close to minimal. Even Spiderman missed out on some key features. Number 1 being the word "Super".

These people aren't the same as us. In Superman's case, never has been. He should always be slightly alien, and Christopher Reeve managed that. His Clark Kent was far more the mask.

Bats, I don't think any actor has pulled it off successfully yet, even Adam West. The Animated Series has nearly nailed it, because Batman is less of a human and more a force of nature. He's V, Sherlock Holmes and Judge Dredd all in one. He's as much a sociopath as Joker, it's just Batman has an honour code.

Unlike Superman, Batman doesn't have a secret ID. He just has times when he's not being Batman. Like Picard, Gandalf, Jules Winnfield or Gordon Freeman, he's above humanity. Homo Supernus. Bruce Wayne doesn't go to the loo, have bad hair days or get dumped. He's the hate myselfGoddam Batman.

That's what they've missed, and what they miss with Superman. They're not men.

Where are you getting these readings of the characters from? Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers. He's the ideal country boy in the big city, able to enforce good, old-fashioned, small-time morals in the big city. Lately he's been turned more into a force of nature, but the root of his character is still that.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity? From the very first appearance, he's been the quintessential masked vigilante, with a secret identity that's hidden because of personality. Bruce Wayne has been the bumbling, vapid rich manboy since the 1930s. I just don't understand where you're getting your source material from.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns. Before that, he was just a driven crime fighter.

There are going to be haters for anything popular.

bojac6:
Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

By forgetting a very big part of his character, the quipping. Also with the web-shooters, but that's Hollywood.

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers.

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns.

Son, Miller just turned Bats into a Marty-Stu. Batman's entire drive was a rage that pushed him away from humanity to fight justice. From his very first beginnings, young Bruce was a brat who had his folks shot in front of him - who was then taken away by his butler to live in a big house, where he trained himself obsessively and took on a boy ward.

He's also been to other planets, rode bombs, ran reality gates, fought Superman and a myriad of other things that would shatter a normal mind. Bats is so far gone that he's out the other side. It's the only way he could cope.

Makes sense, the number of superhero reboots we're getting at the moment why should the 'biggest' superhero be any different?

As long as he uses the original them for the opening credits I don't give a shit.

dun da da dun, du du du, duh, duh duh da,daaaa daaa daaa daaa!!! You know what I mean!

joes:
A lot of Nolan hate on the thread, but none for Mr. Snyder? I'm quite surprised.

Mr. Snyder is a hack who seems to be stuck in slow motion.

The_root_of_all_evil:

bojac6:
Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

By forgetting a very big part of his character, the quipping. Also with the web-shooters, but that's Hollywood.

Fair point.

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers.

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

Yes, but he's always been raised in Kansas by the Kents. That's why lines like "Aww, shucks, Lois" and being shy around her make sense for an invincible alien. He's the quintessential American Ideal, an immigrant who makes his home a better place through hard work and natural talent. His birth and genetics aren't what make him a hero or an interesting character, they just make him "super." It's his upbringing and moral code that make him a hero and made him popular.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

Zorro was never above humanity either. Zorro is also just driven by a strong sense of justice, there's no vengeance in what he does. Zorro's motivation is simply he has the ability to do it, it's not an obsessive drive.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns.

Son, Miller just turned Bats into a Marty-Stu. Batman's entire drive was a rage that pushed him away from humanity to fight justice. From his very first beginnings, young Bruce was a brat who had his folks shot in front of him - who was then taken away by his butler to live in a big house, where he trained himself obsessively and took on a boy ward.

He's also been to other planets, rode bombs, ran reality gates, fought Superman and a myriad of other things that would shatter a normal mind. Bats is so far gone that he's out the other side. It's the only way he could cope.

Batman's earliest depictions involve him using a tommy gun to mow down mobsters and quickly involved a whole family of sidekicks, including a dog and whatever the hell Batmite was supposed to be. He operates as part of the Gotham PD. He's hardly a raging sociopath. By the Silver Age, he was pretty normal, just broody, because of the comics code. His origins have changed a lot too, Alfred wasn't there originally, he was raised by an Uncle in some continuities, and stuff like that.

My point is, he's been a very malleable character with just a few character traits that stayed in place. I think the Nolan movie interpretations are actually truer to the character than a lot of comic book interpretations have been. Especially more so than Frank Miller's sociopath, abusive, Nietzschean Superman with no redeeming qualities or hope.

I think what makes him super is the fact that he's so strong willed that despite all the crazy stuff he's done, like fighting aliens and jumping realities and time travel, etc. (none of which has happened yet in the movies, so I don't see how it's relevant to a discussion about those), he's still managed to hold on. That's who he is, he perseveres. Saying he has to have gone crazy in order to cope, in my mind, misses the core of the character. Batman drew a line he would not cross and he does not cross it. His self-confidence and will power are absolute. It's been shown time and time again. Mind control fails on him more often than it does on the Martian Manhunter. Batman demonstrates he has the resolve to do what needs to be done according to his own rules. He won't take the easy way out and he doesn't compromise.

Oh god, I hope this isn't going to be based on the new emo, hoody-wearing superman, because that's what they're making it sound like.

Logan Westbrook:
There have been five Superman movies over the years, four starring Christopher Reeve, and one starring Christopher Reeve impersonator Brandon Routh.

Fixed that for you. You can have that one for free.

bojac6:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

Yes, but he's always been raised in Kansas by the Kents. That's why lines like "Aww, shucks, Lois" and being shy around her make sense for an invincible alien. He's the quintessential American Ideal, an immigrant who makes his home a better place through hard work and natural talent. His birth and genetics aren't what make him a hero or an interesting character, they just make him "super." It's his upbringing and moral code that make him a hero and made him popular.

True, but I'll get back to that later.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

Zorro was never above humanity either.

The Legend of Zorro was like the Ninjas though. He was the Man above men, like Robin Hood, Churchill, Rob Roy, Paul Bunyan... Men that were able to do things above normal men, or at least seem like it.

(Winston Churchill/Abraham Lincoln are almost passing into fiction with half the stories told about them.)

This is what I mean when I say sociopath. Not that they're Lecter-level killing machines, but they're so beyond normal humanity that it's difficult to interact with us mere mortals.

Look at Michael Jackson or Elvis, can you imagine them trying to do a dance move and failing? It breaks the spell...the illusion of being a Superhero (Or as we tend to use today, a Celebrity)

If Rick Astley wins an award for "Never Gonna Give You Up", he's being placed on the "Batman" pedestal, or Antoine Dodson, or Nathan Fillon. (And for Batman Villains, wouldn't Jack Thompson be perfect? Or Gabe Newell as the Kingpin/Steam-Master)

(Hell, Bobby Kotick as Lex Luthor? ...my god...that would be terrible.)

Spidey, Supes and Batman really reflect aspects of Mankind turned up to 11.

Spidey is the teenager that turns into a kid - leaping off walls, making jokes and saving the world.
Batman is the steely eyed teacher/policeman/lawyer. Incorruptible, Invulnerable, Indefinable.
Superman is the fish out of water. Clark Kent is his mask (and he wears it uncomfortably), but when he tears that shirt off; he's your Dad kicking the field goal, your Grandpa beating you on Mariokart or everyone else that you look up to. When he's Clark Kent, it's like your Dad when the grandkids are around, Grandpa when your sister wears the new fashion - slightly uncomfortable.

That's what I think Hollywood is missing. They're only making them Heroes. Men that are deep down still just average joes.

Bruce, Clark and Peter were NEVER average Joes, they would have been celebrities even without the costume. And, even in our society, Celebrities rarely do "normal things", or we wouldn't have a press.

Thank god.

I haven't read the comics, but the prevailing view of Superman to the general public I believe is like that of Batman up till The Dark Night Returns, thinking he was still the 60's Frank West Batman.

The big problem with Superman Returns was that they couldn't stop wanking off to the Donner movies the whole time and were afraid of changing anything. That's coming from a guy who actually liked it despite all the problems.

As much as I'm skeptical about this film, it can't be worse than Superman 3 and 4.

The Youth Counselor:

joes:
A lot of Nolan hate on the thread, but none for Mr. Snyder? I'm quite surprised.

Mr. Snyder is a hack who seems to be stuck in slow motion.

boom.

 

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