Gay Gamers Want Dragon Age 2 Writer Fired

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If you refused to make your moves on a gay character then you are received rivalry points for not wanting to be gay for the character.

Wait, what? Anders came on to me early on, but I changed the subject of the conversation and everything went smoothly. No rivalry points, no further efforts, nothing.

Ghostwise:
I've met and known my fair share of gay men unfortunately and everyone of them is a complete and utter hornball....much like any man.

Oi, sexist.

I'm with Gaider on this one. It's singling out one character whose sexuality has nothing to do with his personality. Hell, methinks bisexuals might have more to complain about since the main love interests can all go both ways (I don't count Sebastian as a main since he's DLC-based), including the person the gamer seems to be complaining about. I gotta say this feels a bit more understandable than the Resident Evil 5 controversy about African zombies in Africa, but again I feel its a case of missing the point and jumping to the wrong conclusion.

This guy needs to be punched. Hard.

The characters act more realisticaly in this aspect - they hit on you because they're interested in you, and they're not going to wait around for you to show interest. Real life is like that - I found it great to see such situations in a game.
Anders is just a desperate little bastard who wants a little lovin' before he goes nuts and destroys everything. Can't really blame him for that.

And hoesntly, Gaider is one of the best game writers out there; asking to have him fired is one of the dumbest moves you could pull in this period of gaming.

". If you refused to make your moves on a gay character then you are received rivalry points for not wanting to be gay for the character,"
-Misinformed gamer.

That is just plain false. You don't get the rivalry points for rejecting them, you get them for being a dick about rejecting. I've been playing as a straight Hawke and never once have I received Rivalry points for not following a Romance.

"This is completely wrong, homosexuals do not approach people and force them to kiss us, the person that wrote this game should be fired for stereotyping homosexuals in such a disrespectful way, as well as creating the worst writing in characters, plot and everything else in DA2."

You're right, it false, along with everything else you said. Most of the characters in the game that you can have a homosexual encounter with are loners if he has yet to notice. Fenris has been on the run for the past 3 years and has never had anything close to a friend, Anders fears being found by the Templars. The only stereotype present here is the common theme of a subordinate falling for their leader. Its amazing how people start jumping to conclusions.

I understand what he is trying to say, but he isn't really winning a lot of points with anyone. Mainly due to his arguments being either false or not remembering that the way they're attracted on you isn't affected by the homosexuality, but by their personality.

ah ha ha
now can we please move past this obsession with trying to include women and homosexuals in blatant "no-one feels left out" ways and start using the subtlety tool

Andy Chalk:
Permalink

I was kind of waiting for this particular backlash, to be honest.

It's very hard for games to cater to a fringe demographic without accidentally parodying that demographic... or at the very least caricaturizing it. It's not malicious or intentional. It's just the way we conceptualize things: if it's different from what we know in some ways, we tend to minimalize the things that are similar and thus exaggerate the things that are different.

What makes a straight man different from a gay man? By and large, the only difference is who they have sex with. That's the key difference. And so, when we create a homosexual character, we feel a certain responsibility to prove it's a homosexual character by making a big deal out of the thing that identifies him as a homosexual.

And, of course, the other problem is a classic with NPC dialogue--sometimes we forget how many times the player is going to hear a particular line, either in the same playthrough (if it loops) or in multiple playthroughs. That can turn a perfectly natural dialogue into gross generalization, even stereotypical chatter.

The answer, in this case, is one the developers have already touched on as a regret--they need to allow the player to initiate these romances. Unless the core gameplay centers on sex, romantic/sexual entanglements need to (if present) be something the player has to seek out. Then it's simply a matter of ensuring you provide a variety of options.

But, as with any art, it's often too tempting to broadcast something we've added, for fear that it might be missed or underappreciated... By and large, I think these guys were bold to take on the issue, but there was some mishandling.

Those railing against it need to realize that only by allowing people to make and learn from mistakes are we going to get developers to be equipped to capably handle these sorts of issues. If you snap at them for each misstep, however unintentional, you're only going to make them afraid to learn the right way to deal with it.

For those saying that all of them being bisexual is highly unlikely, you have to remember that most people are bisexual to an extent. That extent being that some straight males would have another male out there that they'd find attractive. Sure, they wouldn't go out LOOKING for them, but they're out there. It's much rarer for someone to be 100% straight or gay. Now, this "extent"? Hawke is a beast, whether man or woman. Hawke simply is. Everyone wants him/her and anyone would follow that sexy piece of ass!

As for on topic, I already made a post about that.

You know, they have a point. Gays are people too, and they can be just as completely fucking retarded and miss the goddamn point just like any of us.

hmmm gays are obsessed with sex is a stereotype? The only gay stereotype that I know was a over feminine man who is good with people and textiles. A sex obsessed character to me is just a bad character. I would call this over sensitive (ironically) as I never seen anyone complain about a male character being butch and overly masculine.

Oh its soo nice to see the OP call people stupid because they felt offended at a character who was extremely forceful. Guess what, a lot of people felt that the characters were ham handed and that Anders was extremely poorly done.
Of course the lead writer will not get fired but he should not be allowed to take some crappy "I DEFENDED GAYS!" moral high ground to defend a poorly done character.

Poor David Gaider. Man can't catch a break

Wait, so he's upset that gays are misrepresented here?

... But everyone is bi... there were no gays. The only non-bi love interest was Sebastian, who was straight and celibate, which was part of his whole extremely religious personality.

And why Fenris? Anders was not only the aggressive one (even to my male Hawke. Fenris kept things professional the entire time), but well... crap, can't do this without spoilers.

It seems to me if you're going to talk about the same sex partner who misrepresents things, I'd go after the one who did that, or did you not play far enough?

If he is fired, I will cry for humanity.

Ho-kay, just signed the petition.

You know, the other petition.

Because genuinely aggrieved or not, the "fire Gaider" petitioner is a jerk. It's just a question of whether they're of the petulant type with an overdeveloped, self-centered sense of entitlement or the simple inflammatory attention-seeking type with parental issues.

Wait, So...wait... I... really...?

This is so stupid I'm speechless.

So. Someone says he wants more girls to flirt with or that there's too much homosexual relations, and he gets called homophobic by the public and the writer. The writer was also called heterophobic for having fewer options to straight guys (and lets face it, lesbians). Now that writer is being called homophobic by gays because the gay characters apparently only think of sex.

Hear that? That is the sound of my face landing into the palm of my hand.

Okay, how about we all just agree that Dragon Age 2 has major writing problems. Lets stop calling each other homophobes and heterophobes because it just looks like we may be misunderstanding peoples views. I have not even played the game, and now, I may not even bother because this is just starting to sound like a badly written game.

The writers aren't trying to stereotype. Men and lesbians want equal opportunities of flirtation with characters that have more personality types. And the rivalry system was obviously a VERY bad idea because EVERYONE keeps complaining about it!

Sigh... Okay, if I missed something, let me know. I don't want to be standing on the soap box spouting something I misunderstood.

Its human nature to be offended when you're turned down... Anders hints and you're all "Um... Naw brah" and he gets offended, like normal people. Last time I asked a girl out and she told me no I was offended as well.

It's this kind of thing that'll just make them stop doing same sex romance options.

I think the main problem is relationships in video games are still in their infancy. They're really clunky and not all that convincing. Bioware has done a good job to push things forwards, but it's still only around pong level of complexity.

When did people forget that this is a game?

I am seriously offended by Dragon Age 2 because I,as a gamer experienced no asian characters through the whole story, which means they don't exist, so I, as an asian person, am seriously offended because asians exist, contrary to what the game might make you believe.

In all seriousness, the gay characters(or any characters), in this game don't need to represent the gay community, they represent themselves, so, if Anders is the type of person who gets offended if someone rejects him that's the kind of character he is. Does see all gay people like we see Anders? Maybe, who knows. Does it mean the writer should loose his job? Certainly not.

This is especially ironic considering that it is the same action by Anders that's being complained about by the homophobic individual that got chewed out by DA's lead writer.

SlugLady28:
Wait, So...wait... I... really...?

This is so stupid I'm speechless.

So. Someone says he wants more girls to flirt with or that there's too much homosexual relations, and he gets called homophobic by the public and the writer. The writer was also called heterophobic for having fewer options to straight guys (and lets face it, lesbians). Now that writer is being called homophobic by gays because the gay characters apparently only think of sex.

Hear that? That is the sound of my face landing into the palm of my hand.

Okay, how about we all just agree that Dragon Age 2 has major writing problems. Lets stop calling each other homophobes and heterophobes because it just looks like we may be misunderstanding peoples views. I have not even played the game, and now, I may not even bother because this is just starting to sound like a badly written game.

The writers aren't trying to stereotype. Men and lesbians want equal opportunities of flirtation with characters that have more personality types. And the rivalry system was obviously a VERY bad idea because EVERYONE keeps complaining about it!

Sigh... Okay, if I missed something, let me know. I don't want to be standing on the soap box spouting something I misunderstood.

The rival system is not a bad idea, it's just that people bitching (on both sides of the fence) just don't understand what they were going for. It just makes sense. You turn someone down, regardless of sexual orientation, yeah, they are going to be pissed with you. Maybe Anders is more aggressive in his approach, but that's actually something the first game kind of hinted at, if not his flexible sexuality.

Anders is aggressive. Turn him down, and he'll still be aggressive. It still kinda makes sense. It's not like rejection is a big bowl of happy. And, since it's just Anders who does this, it's very clearly not a gender/sexuality issue. Dude's just aggressive. And, you know, of two minds fused, making emotion and desire very prominent drives for his actions. Merrill is troubled and shy, Isabella is closed about her past and open about her drinking, Fenris is willing to open up to someone who helped him, despite his feelings about their companions, and Anders is ruled by emotions and going to do something drastic on several occasions. Their actions are based on their personalities, not on bad stereotypes.

Celtic_Kerr:
Dude, I've been in rel life and gay people have hit on me. In school, at work, in the streets. Straight people have hit on me, and I've hit on members of the opposite sex. It's called being realistic.

If all you have is a video game where the male and female characters only return feelings for you if you first show them, then you're not really getting a realistic experience of humanity. Being into someone who doesn't return the feelings runs both ways. In my case, it was Anders. Anders flirted with me, he was into me, and I didn't reciprocate. Sure, I got rivalry points. After all, he was heart broken. But that's life right? I gained the friendship points back and he never hit on me again.

The same thing might happen in real life. Say I have a homosexual friend who's had a crush and mistakens my friendliness for a reciprocated crush. He walks up to me and asks me out, I tell him I'm not into men. He's hurt (rivalry, for lack of better term), but we bounce back and we're friends.

I think it's pretty awesome that Bioware made a game in which the characters don't only have interests if you show interest first. you don'tvonly pursue them, they pursue you too. It's realistic, it's life, and anyone who doesn't think so hasn't stepped outside in a long time

Well said! =)

Doesn't it also depend on *how* you turn people down too? I'd heard that if you use the more blunt option you get more rivalry points. You know, just like in real life - if you turn someone down harshly, they will be more hurt.

I'm sorry this person felt negatively stereotyped by the game, but I also think he might have lost touch a little bit with the realities of interpersonal relationships!

BOOSH!

Well Anders gets pissed if a female turns him down
and you get rivalry points if you try to flirt with Fernris

And there are no gay characters in Dragon age 2.
They're all Bisexual so take that petitioners.

I'm gay, didn't play DA2, but decided to watch the 'gay' scenes. I liked them both. They were extremely well written I thought, and kind of romantic in one case and a bit angst wridden in the other case. It wont get me to play the game, my bank account suffereth greatly.

Oh my god, I've seen that petition.
It was used to troll me but I suppose that doesn't mean the guy who made it is trolling. He likely is though.

Actual:

How did he become gay between games!? He was fiercely heterosexual in Awakenings, and don't tell me his change is due to his companion as he had no desires at all.

Gold earing in one ear.
Obsession with appearance and pretty things.
Cats.
Flirting with Nathaniel.

While you would be right to say none of those mean a person is gay, but when a person acts like that, you wouldn't be surprised that he is gay. Anders was more of a sterotype before he started hitting on the player.

This is absolutely ridiculous. People need to stop getting upset so easily, and wonder if the things they're so offended by were meant to cause hurt, or whether they're looking too deeply into it.

This whole thing, from the initial letter to the developer to the response from the gay player, did not need to become a public affair.

...Wow. And I mean WOW. What the hell man, Stereotyping... You're blasting one of the first stepping stones to freely allowing Homosexual choices in games and blasting it Stereotyping.
Aren't you the little moron.

Well NO DUH idiot, the writer isn't gay, he can only take what he gets from what he sees. Live with it and sit the hell down you raging idiot. What you SHOULD be doing is trying to take what you saw wrong in the interactions and educate the developers in what they should be doing. Because I gotta say this is really really stupid and will come back to bite you in the ass when developers decide "well crap, I can't portray any kind of Homosexual relationship because then this will happen."

DumbdumbdumbdumbdumbdumbDUMB.

Actual:
Although Fenris was OK when you turned him down he didn't stop. No fenris I'm still not gay, fuck off. ...(ten minutes later).... Goddamnint no! I'm not gay yet!

And the fact that both Fenris' and Anders' advances come out of nowhere without any hint that you're interested in them. Who does that!? The only people I can think of are sleazebags.

More importantly; ANDERS ISN'T GAY!

How did he become gay between games!? He was fiercely heterosexual in Awakenings, and don't tell me his change is due to his companion as he had no desires at all.

Maybe Justice was gay

EDIT: Wait, by companion did you mean Justice? I assumed you meant the warden. Damn, pre-empted.

But seriously, I'm all with David Gaider on this one. Just to say one gay character can be pushy is NOT saying that all homosexuals are pushy. Bioware has always excelled at fantastic characterisation, and the fact is that there are people out there of both genders and all sexual orientations who just won't take no for an answer. That's realistic, and it's just unfortunate that this attribute in a gay character led so many to believe that they were being accused of pushiness en-masse.

Personally I'd like to see a Bioware game that lets the player get shot down... It would be quite amusing to pick the romantic option in a character dialogue just to be told 'I don't swing that way'.

And Mordin Solus doesn't count, he puts you down even though there aren't any romantic options.

Andy Chalk:

"unable to be normal people and think [about] nothing but sex."

Does this guy pay attention to the rest of the world? Quite alot of crap is said about non-heteros. How about we target the people actually doing us harm instead of someone taking up for our rights that might have buggered a little writing?

Ok, how about if you don't want to play a gay romance you don't pick the romance options when talking to other dudes? Seriously, I've played through the game twice and never felt that Anders or anyone else (except maybe Isabela) was forced on me. This is absolute bullshit, unless maybe this guy is trollin'; in which case it's pretty fantastic as a piece of trolin'.

Actual:
Although Fenris was OK when you turned him down he didn't stop. No fenris I'm still not gay, fuck off. ...(ten minutes later).... Goddamnint no! I'm not gay yet!

And the fact that both Fenris' and Anders' advances come out of nowhere without any hint that you're interested in them. Who does that!? The only people I can think of are sleazebags.

More importantly; ANDERS ISN'T GAY!

How did he become gay between games!? He was fiercely heterosexual in Awakenings, and don't tell me his change is due to his companion as he had no desires at all.

Anders himself isn't gay per se. But since he is host for the spirit of Justice his perception of world changed. Spirits in Dragon Age universe are, to some point, feeding of emotions. The good ones focus on the positive ones, while demons of the sinful ones.

What Justice did to Anders was push him towards what our behavioural psychology calls border-line behaviour. He was unable to be just mild in his emotions anymore it was all or nothing. He explains it several times during the game, especially right after his first quest, and that is also why he almost attacks you when you first meet him.

Daemascus:
This proves it. No matter what you do, you can never make everyone happy.

You can never make all of your fans happy.

theres no pleasing some fucking people.

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