BioWare: Mass Effect 3 Combat Perfected

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Hopefully ME3 brings back the sense of progression, but from what I hear I doubt it.

Reckon you're on the money, particularly considering the kind of comments the Exec Prod is making here.

So ME3, a cover-based shooter with a little bit of magic and a follow the bouncing ball storyline. Sounds like it's only worth renting.

All I want...

All I want...

Is Mass Effect 2's combat with the original's RPG-ness. And more Tali. And Legion.
And armour.

Ooh, and can we paint the Normandy too? Can my fish not starve because I'm too busy saving the galaxy that someone else can't feed the blasted things for me?

I say: get the storyline right, "you win!". So many factors/twists-turns at this point that pulling it off will be very impressive. If you're going to make a kickass combat system, it's all well and good. But first things first.

GLo Jones:
I guess seeing is believing, because 'multi-tiered levels joined by ladders' sounds pretty damn frustrating and tedious to me.

Hey, it's totally revolutionary! Most games have to resort to "stairs" or "ramps" to move a player upward; ME3 is going to give you the thrilling ability to swear at your hero as he moves his armored ass up a ladder at a foot per minute!

OT: We are talking about the same game, right, EA? The system that you think was so great, the one that downgraded all the weapons to require ammo, where you had to get upgrades by mining planets from space. Oh, and whose system of making faster guns better against shields, etc. worked just as long as you never ran out of ammo (which happened all the time, even with good aim).

That game?

had to snip it sorry

i totally agree with everything you said, god damn EA getting in the way of another great development team.

"yh make a shooter, everyone loves that and it makes loads of money"

FUCK RIGHT OFF, ME1 was amazing because it was an RPG, because it had tactical strategy, ME2 sold well because it was mindless shooting pleasure for morons.

Yeah, not exactly looking forward to it.

In ME2, you were just as accurate and your guns were just as strong at the end as they were at the beginning. You did not get more accurate, your guns didn't get stronger, they stayed the same from beginning to end. There was no sense of progression, no sense of getting stronger. Yeah you got a couple of new guns/powers to play around with, but they didn't really change up combat. Like, at all. You still stayed behind cover and shot dudes who poked their heads out(or casted your powers, depending on your class). The only two classes that were fun to play were Vanguard(who can charge everywhere) and the Infiltrator class(can turn invisible). And even then it was still pretty "meh".

In Mass Effect 1, you start out with ass guns, ass stats, ass armor, and pretty much just ass everything. But as you progress, you get better. Your weapons get better. Your skills get better. Your team gets better. You have an actual sense of progression. At the start I had to fire in bursts and couldn't cast much powers. By the end I could fire for 2 minutes without the gun overheating(not counting the "overload" power, which boosts accuracy/lowers heating up even more), my guns were super-accurate, I had such beefy armor I was like a tank. I went from "standard soldier" to "uber-badass". And it was great.

You also learn how the combat works. At the start you'll fumble around, but then you'll learn it. Learn when to use your powers, when take your shots, everything. You get better, Shepard gets better, you both get better at the same time and it just gives a sense of immersion that no other game has ever given me. Most people try to play Mass Effect 1 as a straight up shooter. Casting powers all at once, running in, ect. and I think thats why there was so much hate for it.

Mass Effect 1 is not a shooter. It is an RPG(although that in itself is debatable) with shooter elements. If you play it as a tactical RPG, pausing while playing, issuing orders, managing powers, ect. the game's combat gets great, fun, and interesting.

In ME2 you start out as "so-so badass" and just stay that way through the whole game. You don't get better, don't get more accurate, don't improve your guns(all the guns are basically side-grades instead of upgrades). There just isn't any sense of progression. Yeah you level up and get a bit more powers, but they all have the same cooldown for some stupid reason, so you'll cast one, then wait for everything to recharge, and then do it again. Its boring.

Again, ME1 is not a shooter. If you don't like that, then guess what? The game is not for you. This is not a bad thing, it just means this game is not for you.

ME2 is a shooter. I guess it would be an action adventure, since it has essentially no role-playing. Same with Mass Effect 1, only ME1 is just adventure with shooter elements. Again, ME2 being more shooter-like isn't bad per-say, its just boring as hell to me.

Also ME1 had infinite ammo. And no matter how you say it, I don't see how going from unlimited ammo to limited ammo is an upgrade. Especially if you like sniping, in which case you'll be running out of ammo very quickly and have to just go up the front lines and fight Gears of War style anyway. Or sit in an area where the ammo things constantly respawn, which completely undermines the new ammo mechanic.

And another thing, I seem to be one of the very few people who think naturally moving in/out of cover is better then pressing A to stick yourself to a wall. In ME1 if you want to take cover you go up to a wall, and Shepard automatically gets into cover. In ME2 you have to tell him to do it. I guess TIM didn't fully repair his brain if he doesn't have the sense to get into cover when getting shot.

And that is why I liked ME1's combat much more than ME2's. Hopefully ME3 brings back the sense of progression, but from what I hear I doubt it.

These are my thoughts exactly. The whole point of ME is this epic space opera (it always reminded me of Peter F Hamilton novels) NEED those RPG elements to get that immersion. Also, pressing A to stick to chest high walls is lame.

LADDERS!? THATS YOUR GRAND MASTER PLAN FOR PERFECTING MASS EFFECT 3'S COMBAT? So adding ladders not balancing the shooter & rpg elements? I had a feeling EA buying you off was trouble from day one.

Shoots and Ladders? Sounds like fun!
If the enemies get smarter, did they also make sure Wrex's fat ass won't run in front of me every time I try to snipe?

This happened to me, only it was Kaiden. EVERY. DAMN. TIME. It was a major factor in my decision to stop taking him with me on missions.

But I wish that ME2 had kept some of the levelling from ME1. I liked picking my powers and watching them get stronger and having more choices. It made each stat point I assigned mean that much more. I also liked the 1:1 ratio in the first game better than each level costing more points in ME2.

While I liked the overall combat of ME2 better (it just felt better for me a lot of the time) I wasn't a big fan of having to find ammo and there being like no ammo for shotguns or sniper rifles, which both have abysmally small clips.

Can't wait for a video though.

How about add a gameplay element that involves more than just fucking shooting people. Why include a class which is designed for stealth if you never include any stealth mechanics?


I missed the loot system in Mass Effect 1 with the guns and armor.

How on earth could you miss selling 50 units of "Polonium Rounds VI" one by one? And god help you if you didn't, because once the Scram Rail X you actually wanted finally dropped, your space napsack was full and you were forced to immediately omnigel it.

This kind of nostalgia just blows my mind.

Wasn't talking about the selling, and I very much liked the omnigel tool.

It was very engaging to get lots of different types of armor (One of my favorite things about RPGs is dress up... yeah).

What was it in Mass Effect 2? Two, maybe three different types of armor for each body part?

It was dull, and seeing how the combat was merely decent, the thin string that kept me there was the dialogue.

Loop Stricken:
All I want...
All I want...
Is Mass Effect 2's combat with the original's RPG-ness. [/i]

THIS. Right here.

Captcha: instrument toute. which is funny because I am using a music writing program at this very moment.

(Don't worry, I'm aware of my horrible grammar during the below rant, and fully apologize for it.)

If they want to improve something, it may as well be the enemy AI. There are some rare exceptions, but for the most part, developers suffer from the "Perfect AI" syndrome, and Bioware is no less guilty.

They don't have to aim, they just lock on. They don't take steps, they glide across the floor while doing a running animation. Which means they can "glide" in any direction they please at full speed, navigating the map with expert precision, and firing full auto on the player with perfect lock-on aim at the same time. They don't have to look where they're going, they don't run for their lives, unless the Scripting God sets off the "you have a grenade within 5.234179 meters of you" alarm, in which case they begin moving away at full speed the very micro second that alarm goes off.

They shouldn't know where the player is without having to look. They should be distracted by explosions, if not disoriented. They should act like living beings who don't want to die. They should communicate with each other before pulling off perfect maneuvers and expert shots. They should react to being shot, with more then just a one second animation, and they most certainly should -not- just shrug the damage off within a millisecond and return to their perfect behavior. Getting shot shouldn't just reduce the health bar; they should not be able to keep side stepping at 20 mph if they're getting shot.

I could write pages about how stupid it is, but I'll just stop here.

Loop Stricken:
Can my fish not starve because I'm too busy saving the galaxy that someone else can't feed the blasted things for me?

Ooooh, thank you, that made me laugh out loud.

It's already semi-automated isn't it? You just push a button. EDI could do it for you, so no one would even have to physically go up there.

Come on Bioware! These are the important things!

Didn't enemies in ME2 already have unique tactics ? The big guys try to break your position, the medium guys get in a line and take turns exchanging fire with you, and the littler guys flank and shit like that.

Honestly if I can look at the group of enemies and, just from their physical appearance, instantly come up with a kill priority list then the game gets ridiculously easy. Especially in shooter games. Maybe this will change in ME3, I mean hey Duke Nukem Forever is coming out so I guess anything's possible.

I liked ME 2 a lot but I think some of those tweaks should include a bit more RPG elements. I felt like in ME 2 they needed to make the characters just a bit more customizable, it was fairly weak in that department. The first ME had to many variations of armor and guns but the second one just had to little. If they could have had about 2 more guns for each category ME 2 would have been SO much better. Also make it so that I can pick whatever armor look I want and have simple additives that I can put on each armor piece to give me the stats. I hated how as cool as some of those armor types looked I would never use them because they didn't feet my needs.

If they bump the customizability up by just a few notches then I think ME 3 will be perfect.

Didn't enemies in ME2 already have unique tactics ? The big guys try to break your position, the medium guys get in a line and take turns exchanging fire with you, and the littler guys flank and shit like that.

Honestly if I can look at the group of enemies and, just from their physical appearance, instantly come up with a kill priority list then the game gets ridiculously easy. Especially in shooter games. Maybe this will change in ME3, I mean hey Duke Nukem Forever is coming out so I guess anything's possible.

I think what he means is that even similar looking guys will act totally different. Like say you face down two Geth Hunters. One of the Hunters might charge you and try to get in close while the other one will focus more on stealth and flanking you. Same kind of unit, different tactics. That way strategy isn't just about which enemy type you attack first, it's about observation and tactics.


The RPG-crowd are gonna hate it though. "It's justed a dumbed down shooter now! Ruined forever! Waaah!

And yet if the opposite was said for Call of Duty and all the shooter-fanboys started ranting and raving about it you'd be all sympathetic.

I don't see why an Action-RPG needs to become a CoDclone-RPG BioWare. I really don't.

Uhh... what? I don't like Call of Duty. At all. Well... okay, CoD 4 was pretty good. But apart from that I have no love for that series. If CoD suddenly turned into a platformer and "all the shooter-fanboys started ranting and raving about it", then I would not be "all sympathetic". Rather, I would be maliciously laughing my head off.

Also... did you just use the term "CoD-clone" in regard to Mass Effect with a straight face? Seriously?


had to snip it sorry

ME2 sold well because it was mindless shooting pleasure for morons.

Sure thats exactly why I love ME2. I finally know why...Because its mindless, and I'm a moron. I'm so glad I know the truth know, I can now enjoy my bliss without ignorance.

I can't believe all the exploration, decisions, story, sidequests, customization, amazing characters, and interesting environments had NOTHING to do with why I enjoyed that game! I really need to re-evaluate my life. You have changed my life sir.


This is like the opposite of what the community was saying. Thats it. I'm of the belief that Bioware no longer hears all its fans have to say, but only what they wish to hear.

Both ME1 and 2 were RPG's with shooter elements. The difference was that in the first game the mechanics were clunky, clumsy and difficult to implement in anything else than theory, while in the sequel they were seamless and fun - which apparently is kryptonite for RPG elitists.

So, less guns (of which, I guess, most are DLC again) and less customization now?
Oh goodie.

Also... did you just use the term "CoD-clone" in regard to Mass Effect with a straight face? Seriously?

Yes because in the article they specifically say they anticipate being compared to the "best shooters in the world" and so they "have to get to that level."

Also let's not forget that not too long ago there were rumours, granted only rumours, that BioWare wanted to expand on the ME universe with a CoD style game. Does that mean it'll be ME3? Probably not, but if they're trying to form competition between an Action-RPG and an FPS what else could be on the books?

I honestly hope that this game has a sufficient ending to such an epic saga. I recently got Mass Effect 2, and I can say I am thoroughly enjoying the game. I can't decide whether to save up for Skyrim or Mass Effect 3 at the moment! I know Skyrim will have a longer playtime due to mods, but ME3 will end a saga for me! If Bioware has anything going for it, it's their amazing writing and storytelling mechanics that draw you into a story or situation whether it be gameplay or cut scenes. But yeah the lack of exploration in ME2 was saddening to me. I for one like to explore random planets and discover new things in a sci-fi atmosphere! Don't disappoint me on this bioware! The Mako DID suck though.....

Eh, don't care about the combat. What I wanna know is, have they brought back the RPG aspects? Do we get an inventory back, have they dumped the loading screens and mission complete screens? Can we have the Mako back?

That's fine, so long as they fire the butt monkies who worked on ME2's main story and replace them with writers who didn't go to the Michael Bay school of writing endings. If I have to see one more shooter ending in a mindless explosion fest followed by a Bond villain taunt, I swear my head is going to explode.

Who wants to bet that it'll be poor quality like DA2?

Basically, despite the fact that ME2 garnered a much more vocal backlash than ME1 ever did, we believe the retard friendly shooter combat we paid journalists to say was excellent is the correct route.

Sounds like for all the proposals to improve the RPG elements, ME3 is still going to shove Biowares fucking awful attempts at being a shooter developer down my throat again.

I wish those retards would understand that playing their Gears ripoff combat is not why I follow Mass Effect to begin with.

Hey guys! I played Dragonage 2. And I LIKED IT. Suck on that.

Also, Mass Effect 1 was epic. Really it was, that last battle yea? It gave me a feeling. I mean I felt somethin' for them Pilots when Sovereign lazerbeamed through them to the point of 'asplodin'. I liked the talks I got to have with Saren. And Combat with an Experimental Shotgun + Hammerrounds was awesome. Speccialy against zombiepeople.

Mass effect 2 was. . And is. Quite boring, playing through it to get a full save in order to pass it into Mass effect 3.

And I AM gonna buy Mass Effect 3. I look forward to it, merely because its Bioware and Mass Effect.

I've yet to play ME2, but I liked the combat in ME1 (the sniper rifle especially). Not really sure how to feel about making it more TPSey, but so long as I can make my amazing exploading sniper rifle again I think I'll be ok with it.

I love that high explosive ammo. I 1 shot everything wiff mah sniper rifle.

Hi, are you playing a role? Is the Shepard in your game, YOUR Shepard with whom you've made a story/character different to anybody else's? Yes? Then you're in an RPG.

When are people going to understand that RPG != dicking around for half the game in inventory/skill screens and that it's really about playing a role. You do realise that's where the name comes from, right? I mean, I'm sure nobody's really that dense that they think min-maxing is role-playing. Right!?

I'm pretty OK with ME turning into a shooter as long as its a good one and they keep all the character development stuff as good as the previous ones.


Kind of sad what Bioware is slowly becoming since it became part of EA, not that it wasn't to be expected but it's still depressing, from deep and involving story and characters to mindless action and cliche and shallow story and characters, from the leading RPG developer to crappy action and shooter games, did all the people that work on previous games just die ? cause after DA2 and now hearing this it seems like Bioware itself isn't far off from following them... hell even my hopes for SW TOR are slowly being killed :(

I don't understand where this viewpoint comes from. When I played ME1 I though it was the best game ever. I'm currently playing through it again to get a character ready for ME2, and now it's just a test of patience and tolerance. ME2's gameplay and story are both vastly improved as far as I can tell. The characters are more interesting, the environments and world more fleshed out and refined (Omega feels like the shithole it's supposed to be, Illium feels like a nice place to visit... at least at first glance), and we don't keep revisiting the same 3 prefab structures on 50 different planets. I think they should have done away with the probe mechanic and replaced it with the quick survey from orbit from the first game, along with bigger caches of minerals in mission areas.

It seems to me that people just assume all non-shooter aspects of ME2 suffer simply because the RPG mechanics were made less of a focus. I don't agree at all. I would have liked more than just 4 levels per power, but there just isn't anything in ME2 that I would say was better in ME1. Even the probe gameplay, while boring, is far less time-consuming than the mako.

I don't understand where your post comes from ? I complained about DA2 and said that I don't like their focus for ME3 and am losing faith in SW TOR as well and you come and say how I'm wrong because "ME2 was AWESOME" ... -_- ??
ME 2 was fine, I liked it a lot but it had its fare share of problems and ME3 most definitely does not need to become even more of a shooter.
Still I don't get your post since you're saying I'm wrong by talking about something completely different :S

Yeah, that's good... but will the RPG elements be solid?!

Ladders and unique tactics were already in the previous Mass Effects. Do they mean they are going to expand on these? All they need to do to smarten the AI is to make them use cover intelligently.

Mass Effect 1&2 are both RPG/FPS. Battles were very improved in the second and the only issue i had were the clips.

Unfortnately, we've been hurt before by bioware. Dragon Age 2 showed us that Bioware wasn't really seeing us as person any more... Then when we found out bioware was cheating on us with that console bitch... Lets just say, its going to be quite some time before we trust Bioware again... We want to trust bioware, but we just can't take that kind of chance... It hurt so much the last time Bioware broke our hearts.

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