Bethesda Says Mojang's Scrolls Infringes on Elder Scrolls Mark

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I really hope it's just a stupid lawyer, because I really don't want one of my favorite videogame producers to be associated with that prick Langdell.

Bethesda's lawyer seems to be the biggest dick (cheapest?) they could hire....

I dont think its really their fault...this lawyer prolly has some nice backing so he can willynilly...

Didnt Notch say that Scrolls wouldnt be done for a bit of time?

How often do people use the words "Elder Scrolls" beyond the "Elder Scrolls series" seriously its always

Morrowind
Oblivion
Skyrim
F3
New Vegas

No one uses full names...

Black Ops
BlOps
Modern Warfare

See what I mean..

FoolKiller:
I'm still surprised that Squeenix didn't sue MistWalker over the Last Story...

Last = Final
Story = Fantasy

Sorry, I have to just poke my head in here. Same guy made both games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi

I know Squeenix owns the Final Fantasy trademark, but it would've been the height of silliness for them to sue the guy who invented it because he wanted to use a similar name.

OT: Completely asinine move, regardless of who initiated it and for what reason. Scrolls =! Elder Scrolls. Oy.

Somewhere in the world a lawyer is facepalming and regretting the public images of lawyers who suffer from frivolous stuff like this.

I guess people do you use the shortened "scrolls" to describe the Elder Scrolls so there is something but its not much to stand on. I think consumers will see the difference.

Yay! I get to use this video. This is my response to the lawyers of Bethesda. Not necessarily Bethesda, unless they are actually responsible, and not overzealous lawyers.

InsaneMaggot:

dancinginfernal:
Saw this on another site, it's actually ZeniMax. Bethesda's parent company, not Bethesda itself.

Could you source this please, i'd also like to read that article.
Never heard of that[ZeniMax being bethesda's parent company], but i'm not uptodate anyway

Here you are, good sir.

EverythingIncredible:

Slayer_2:
Sometimes, yes. But this is the equivalent of McDonalds going after a hotdog vendor working a corner in downtown. I know Bethesda is a big hated company (the next Activision, perhaps), but really?

Mojang is more than just some hotdog vendor, it's a pop culture phenomenon. And just as much competition as a AAA studio.

The Adventure update is without a doubt heavy competition for Skyrim given its nature.

I dunno, Minecraft has had great sales, but I wouldn't call yet another patch for it competition for a new game from a AAA studio. As cool as 1.8 looks, I doubt it'd compete much. Also, don't discount console gamers, they easily outnumber PC gamers for gross sales, and how many of them can play MC on their xbox or playstation?

Either way, I hope Zenimax realizes how stupid a move this is, no one likes a big corporation targeting a little indie group. If this thing goes too far, it's gonna lead to some stupid boycott that won't really affect sales, but will fling more poo at Bethesda's reputation.

Bethesda, you make good games. Sit back and make them. Don't embarrass yourself with bullshit like this.

Edit: Never mind, Bethesda. Stay Classy. But tell Zenimax to shut the fuck up.

Bethesda has no claim, Wizards of the Coast however has a patent on anything that resembles a Trading card or collector card setup. This applies to digital or otherwise.

I hope that Bethesda realizes how much this will hurt themselves, as well as their fanbase, if they go through with this. If they were smart, and I like to think that they are, they'd drop these shenanigans and continue on as normal. No one's going to confuse "The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim" with "Scrolls". That's like confusing "Halo: Combat Evolved" and "Front Mission Evolved".

So somehow this is Zenimax's fault according to some of you?

Look...Bethesda buys lawyers, they do all the legal work and make all the safeguards etc. and the lawyers just do their jobs. They actually need to have these safeguards and copyright rules even if you don't like them just because that is how it works. They probably will let Notch use it anyway.

well its silly, but it just seems like an automated response. Im sure Bethesda would have more class than to send such a letter if they were actually serious.

thiosk:

CezarIgnat:
They have stupid lawyers ... assholes...

There is no other kind of lawyer than stupid lawyer assholes.

Actually there is. Shit lawyers.

People need to quit trying to copyright the english language.
Two words in common, sure. Or maybe one faux compound word with a similar structure, sure.

One common word? Screw off.

Bethesda: "Hey! That's OUR word!"
Everyone else: "...Scrolls scrolls scrolly scrolls all over my scrolls and the scrolls of my scrolls."

Really though, Bethesda. This is about the worst kind of thing you can do for your image. Scrolls has little to nothing to do with TES besides the name and the fact that it uses fantasy tropes. In fact, one could argue it's a completely different genre of game.
Also, after typing the word "scrolls" over and over again, I've just noticed how weird that word is.

They are trying to trademark common words now? It's not like they even have the same name, it's just part of the name. Are they going to trademark "the" and "elder" too? I could kind of understand them being pissed if Mojang's game was also very similar to their games but it doesn't sound like it is. It's a strategy game and its called scrolls because you actually use magic scrolls.
Surely they don't have a leg to stand on with this? I can't imagine them winning in court.

And why shouldn't they defend their trademarks? They've done the right thing by Notch informing him nice and early. Well before he'd face any real costs re-branding. Chances are h applied for a trademark of the word Scrolls for his game, it triggered their lawyers as a possibly infringing trademark and they jumped to the defense of their franchise. If you think this over zealous then trust me it not its just part of doing business

Wow are you guys hating on Bethesda just because they don't want Notch to have 'Scrolls' in their game title as well? Come on, that's overly dramatic in my opinion. It's not a big offense. I mean sure, it could of been resolved better or differently but to lose respect for Bethesda all because of this? See, that's why we can't have nice things...

The company is coming out with Skyrim, probably going to be the best game of 2011 - 2012. If you still buy their game spite hating Bethesda for this then you're lying to yourself about how wrong it was for Bethesda to be suing Notch. Also, there's a reason I can clearly see on why Bethesda would be upset about the case:

Scrolls is their legacy, their name brand that everyone recognizes. They feel that if Notch goes with 'Scrolls' too and that becomes highly popular- then there's no significance of the Scrolls title anymore but rather just another popular version. Can you imagine if another show was called 'Disney'?? (Yes I know it's a last name from the man who made Mickey Mouse but still). Disney would get lawyers left and right to take on those who are having Disney as their title as well. So yeah, again I don't blame Bethesda for this.

I think a lot of this stems from how trademark law actually works.

If you don't actively enforce your trademark rights, you lose the trademark. Therefore it is safer to chase after anything that even remotely resembles infringement than to wait until a later date and hope you catch anything that is big enough to warrant trouble.

Basically, if Bethesda lets this slide without any trouble, and then next year some random person tries to make an "Elder Scrolls" game, they could cite Mojang's "Scrolls" as proof that Bethesda has not enforced, and therefore no longer has rights to their "Elder Scrolls" trademark.

Regardless of how much of a case Bethesda has, they have no choice but to take action in this situation. The outcome isn't important to Bethesda, as Mojang isn't stealing actual content nor trying to mask his game as one of theirs and therefore will not cause them any damage either way but the act of defending the trademark against something that could be remotely considered infringement is, however, very important to Bethesda.

They should just change the name of their game to "Elder" instead, hah

Caramel Frappe:
Scrolls is their legacy, their name brand that everyone recognizes. They feel that if Notch goes with 'Scrolls' too and that becomes highly popular- then there's no significance of the Scrolls title anymore but rather just another popular version. Can you imagine if another show was called 'Disney'?? (Yes I know it's a last name from the man who made Mickey Mouse but still). Disney would get lawyers left and right to take on those who are having Disney as their title as well. So yeah, again I don't blame Bethesda for this.

"The Elder Scrolls" is their legacy, the word scrolls itself is not. It's not a made up word nor is it someone's last name. It's the normal word for a roll of parchment. Could you imagine if someone tried to say the word "war" was theirs and noone else can use it because they used that word in part of the title of a series?
I don't hate bethesda for this but it's stupid.

Interesting how this is an issue with videogames and yet with movies and books I hardly hear a peep when someone comes out with the exact same title for a product of the same media within a year or two. This is Langdell fever that Bethesda is having, and they are going to end up only hurting themselves when Notch and Mojang win the case. Notch states he likes Bethesda so he might not countersue, but even if he doesn't the publicity against Bethesda will get even worse against them. Which is a shame. They would do themselves a favor at dropping this matter and finding new lawyers who don't also work for album companies and/or the RIAA.

Fensfield:

HerbertTheHamster:
[Above]

... I intend to?

I like the concept myself that Mojang put out for Scrolls. As it stands, I don't plan to buy Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls games. Not now.
If I was able to make the trip, and Mojang decided to have their Minecraft release event on 11-11-11 anyway, I would go there, sending Bethesda a 'Wish You Were Here!' postcard.

Baresark:
This is not just "lawyers being lawyers". There is no such thing. They are not acting without a go ahead from Bethesda. Notch is just looking at this as positive as possible. They would need to prove that there is confusion in a court, just like the Amazon/Apple fiasco where Apple tried suing for the phrase, "app store". They couldn't prove the confusion existed so they lost. I am quite sure the same rules would apply. They want to do this to scare him into folding. Whether he does or not is a completely different story. Should be interesting.

He stated Bethesda doesn't have a strong case, and I am inclined to believe. For one, he has plenty to use off the court case that got Langdell shut down. Two, Bethesda can't legitimately claim that people know the Elder Scrolls games by the name, Elder Scrolls. From Morrowind at least it has been: Morrowind, Oblivion, and now Skyrim. Notch can thank Bethesda's publicity department for that last. No case for confusion there. Also there is a third. Gametype. Scrolls is not an RPG, it is not an MMORPG. It is an Online CCG.
The only people who won't be able to tell the difference are people who don't even use a computer.

Keep in mind also that Scrolls is actually more Jeb's baby, and that Notch is only the wacky godfather. I plan to wait and see what Jeb has to say about it, as beyond just Mojang, he stands to take a hit from this if things go the wrong way.

DementedSheep:
I don't hate Bethesda for this but it's stupid.

Agreed. It isn't worth the energy to hate them. I am disappointed in this kind of move they are making, and I will sorely pity them when it comes around into their face. The fallout* could potentially bite them in the ass so hard, we won't see another game made by them, ever. Though that likelihood is really small given their backers. Zenimax isn't small fry, though they do hide in the shadows quite well.

*:Any puns that occur can be taken as a moment of amusement without detracting from the point of the post. It was honestly unintentional but I'm keeping it there anyway.

Even if bethesda decide to take this to the courts, they're going to lose ; minecraft has more than 11 million people playing it (classic) and more than 2.5 million people have bought it, so no matter what bethesda tries, the community will likely boycott skyrim, and bethesda will be driven into bankruptcy.
In short, bethesda, (to vaguely quote extra credits) do not tangle with the kind of people that have more than 13 million supporters.

DementedSheep:
"The Elder Scrolls" is their legacy, the word scrolls itself is not. It's not a made up word nor is it someone's last name. It's the normal word for a roll of parchment. Could you imagine if someone tried to say the word "war" was theirs and noone else can use it because they used that word in part of the title of a series?
I don't hate bethesda for this but it's stupid.

You have a good point with the 'War' example, but I still consider the fact that 'Scrolls' means something to the company rather then what Scrolls means to Notch. But honestly, calling a game just 'Scrolls' sort of gives a bad impression toward Bethesda.

I mean.. couldn't Notch come up with a name to go with it? Like- 'The Notch Series: Scrolls' <-- That probably would of been much better. So yeah, just having Scrolls itself sort of triggered Bethesda's bad side since their series is based on 'The Elder Scrolls' thus Scrolls is a significant part in their franchise. However, am glad you don't hate it for this situation because most Users are starting to hate Bethesda when really they'll all most likely buy Skyrim anyhow. The irony.

"Notch, sir..."

"What is it, Nigel? I'm busy swimming blissfully naked in my money-filled swimming pool."

"Well, it's the Fallout 3 people, sir... They're here to see you."

"How quaint! Are they here for my 10:00 massage?"

"I'm afraid it's a bit more dire than that, sir."

Change the name to senior parchments

samsonguy920:

DementedSheep:
I don't hate Bethesda for this but it's stupid.

Agreed. It isn't worth the energy to hate them. I am disappointed in this kind of move they are making, and I will sorely pity them when it comes around into their face. The fallout* could potentially bite them in the ass so hard, we won't see another game made by them, ever. Though that likelihood is really small given their backers. Zenimax isn't small fry, though they do hide in the shadows quite well.

*:Any puns that occur can be taken as a moment of amusement without detracting from the point of the post. It was honestly unintentional but I'm keeping it there anyway.

careful, Bethesda might sue you for using the name "Fallout".

double post my bad

Harry Mason:
"Notch, sir..."

"What is it, Nigel? I'm busy swimming blissfully naked in my money-filled swimming pool."

"Well, it's the Fallout 3 people, sir... They're here to see you."

"How quaint! Are they here for my 10:00 massage?"

"I'm afraid it's a bit more dire than that, sir."

FYI, notch is Swedish, not British.
OT: Someone just shot them self in the foot, and I don't think it's notch.

Finish. Minecraft. First. The game has a lot of promise but they're wasting their energy porting it to the Xbox and now this other junk. Millions of people dropped 20 bucks on a beta and all that money goes towards other development. Great way to piss off the fans...

Arker:

Harry Mason:
"Notch, sir..."

"What is it, Nigel? I'm busy swimming blissfully naked in my money-filled swimming pool."

"Well, it's the Fallout 3 people, sir... They're here to see you."

"How quaint! Are they here for my 10:00 massage?"

"I'm afraid it's a bit more dire than that, sir."

FYI, notch is Swedish, not British.
OT: Someone just shot them self in the foot, and I don't think it's notch.

Are you suggesting that Swedes are incapable of being named "Nigel" and using words like "quaint?"

I think you're selling them a bit short there!

Sorry Bethesda, unless you trademarked TES: The Scrolls or something like that You don't own the word Scroll or its different forms at all. What next? ill You also claim Elder is Your trademark? And then we can happily move to "The" and every company that uses "The" in their product name will be sued?

Instead of wasting time and money on lawyers focus on making sure Skyrim performs properly on PC, with all the bells whistles my hardware can push rather than hoping that the modding community will once again fix all Your mistakes.

Arker:

Harry Mason:
"Notch, sir..."

"What is it, Nigel? I'm busy swimming blissfully naked in my money-filled swimming pool."

"Well, it's the Fallout 3 people, sir... They're here to see you."

"How quaint! Are they here for my 10:00 massage?"

"I'm afraid it's a bit more dire than that, sir."

FYI, notch is Swedish, not British.
OT: Someone just shot them self in the foot, and I don't think it's notch.

Didn't you know that becoming filthy rich suddenly changes you into a posh Brit, including monocle, top hat and butler? 'Tis true!

MajorDolphin:
Finish. Minecraft. First. The game has a lot of promise but they're wasting their energy porting it to the Xbox and now this other junk. Millions of people dropped 20 bucks on a beta and all that money goes towards other development. Great way to piss off the fans...

I bolded that just so you can identify for yourself the frivolity involved. Nice to see that a Minecraft related thread doesn't go without the usual 'Notch is lazy' whining.

theriddlen:
Well, if Bethesda wants to stay neutral in my mind they better think twice before trying to do something to Notch. I really want to buy New Vegas.

Buy new Vegas. Its made by obsidian (only published by Bethesda). 120% better writing than anything Bethesda could even dream of putting out, Despite what the Beth fanboys say about it having a "Worse Story" and "'forced' replay Value".

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