But c'mon people, unless you have kiddy porn (you sick bastard) I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Or as some people have, if you have downloaded music at all they can sell that information to SonyBMG (or whoever) and use that as a legal means of obtaining evidence against you that you pirated their stuff.
Which would bring us back to the debate that owning illegally downloaded music is not a crime*, but downloading is. EA would need to get information from one's internet provider to be able to do that.
* - i.e. if you buy an illegal CD not knowing it was illegal, you can't be sued under most legal systems. I don't know how it works in the US, but at least in Europe, it is that way.
Reshkar: If nobody has said this earlier, Windows does this already including steam. Did anyone even look at the terms for steam(the "Collection and Use of Information" in general that is)?
I'm sure there's more to point out in the agreement.
They CAN collect information and share it with 3rd party. It doesn't mean it's an evil company, and so with origin.
No the information needs to be given Ie. the tests that it does every now and then with your permission, it dosent "take the information without you knowing. big difference.
I'm pretty sure it said:
"2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control."
Don't get me wrong, but it's basically what every company does to a certain degree. We're constantly under surveillance.
EA - I'm just dissapointed... I have Origin because it was EA download manager before and I registered there my ME2 game and ME DLCs, but this is just sad... Never gonna use it for buying other games. I was interested in Battlefield 3... well, I'm not anymore.
EA have already earned my disdain by botching up WAR, 2142, BFBC2 and Taking BF3 off steam but this is the clincher. I will not install origin and I will not purchase BF3 unless it comes out on steam without the need to install origin.
I tried beta testing origin and BF3, but never could get in to the game. Now this is out in the open I've un-installed Origin and will soon take care of the beta that never was. Ahh well it's not like once you've played one shooter you get a different experience.
1. i hate origini, steam and other persistent online services that add nothing good. 2. if you dont want anyone to see what you are doing, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place? 3. you agree to it doing it. if you dont want to - dont install origin. if nobody installs it they realize their mistake. this is THE ONLY WAY to do it.
They CAN collect information and share it with 3rd party. It doesn't mean it's an evil company, and so with origin.
Oh, come on, your trying to say that EA is not an evil company? are you out of your mind?
I'll only run Origin when I need to (to play BF3) so hopefully this will provide some form of damage control.
yeah, it will only scan your pc and tell everything in the first 10 minuets of playing every time you start the game. unless you are going to play it once a year or so, its no damage control at all.
I'll only run Origin when I need to (to play BF3) so hopefully this will provide some form of damage control. However, I am not fucking happy about this. I love BF3 and I will still play it but I'm getting sick of all the bullshit. Why are all the big publishers run by fucking arseholes!
There's bits and pieces if you just search "escapist security facebook", but generally their plug-ins allow them to snoop on you without your tacit agreement.
Why are EA the only one's who seem to repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot? Why do all this random sht to what could potentially be an extremely good game?
Why take out the in-game browser?! Why have a fucking retarded TOS?! Why not just release it on Steam, and not force us to have another shitty requirement for playing a game like everyone else manages to?
Does Satan run EA? I mean seriously? Half the stuff they do doesn't even make any fucking sense, and it feels like they dangle BF3 on a string so that they can get us to chase it.
EA this year "modern warfare 3 will suck!" "apple are going to go downhill" "origin monitors your computer" "we don't want our stuff on valve cus they r smelly"
ZombieGenesis: We need to get some creative people together for this one. Come on guys,
How can we make a legal issue out of this? Surely there must be something we can claim against them for this, it's bound to stamp over all kinds of legal and ethical issues. We just need a good enough claim against it and we can destroy them.
The games industry has been spitting on customer rights for this long, it's finally getting to the point where they don't consider customers to have any rights at all they can't have a hand in. We know we can't let it go down this way.
The Data Protection Directive (Directive 95/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data) affords some nice liberties to the EU members amoungst us, however i'm not entirely sure of the legality of reading the TOS means you're bound to them.
1.Notice-data subjects should be given notice when their data is being collected; 2.Purpose-data should only be used for the purpose stated and not for any other purposes; 3.Consent-data should not be disclosed without the data subject's consent; 4.Security-collected data should be kept secure from any potential abuses; 5.Disclosure-data subjects should be informed as to who is collecting their data; 6.Access-data subjects should be allowed to access their data and make corrections to any inaccurate data; and 7.Accountability-data subjects should have a method available to them to hold data collectors accountable for following the above principles
This could easily be seen to say that while you agree to take my data I have to agree to you selling it, but the big scary TOS does try and say that by using our products you have no rights... I am really unsure of the legality of that.
Goldeneye1989: Or as some people have, if you have downloaded music at all they can sell that information to SonyBMG (or whoever) and use that as a legal means of obtaining evidence against you that you pirated their stuff.
Noop:
We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you.
Sgt. Dante: The Data Protection Directive (Directive 95/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data) affords some nice liberties to the EU members amoungst us, however i'm not entirely sure of the legality of reading the TOS means you're bound to them.
1.Notice-data subjects should be given notice when their data is being collected; 2.Purpose-data should only be used for the purpose stated and not for any other purposes; 3.Consent-data should not be disclosed without the data subject's consent; 4.Security-collected data should be kept secure from any potential abuses; 5.Disclosure-data subjects should be informed as to who is collecting their data; 6.Access-data subjects should be allowed to access their data and make corrections to any inaccurate data; and 7.Accountability-data subjects should have a method available to them to hold data collectors accountable for following the above principles
This could easily be seen to say that while you agree to take my data I have to agree to you selling it, but the big scary TOS does try and say that by using our products you have no rights... I am really unsure of the legality of that.
From the snippet of the TOS on the front page it says EA's Privacy Policy overrides anything in the Origin TOS. In the Privacy policy it says:
B. Will EA Share My Information With Third Parties? EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent.
Installing Origin likely counts as "consent" so even in the EU they may have their bases covered here.
Catchy Slogan: It still boggles the mind as to how this much of an invasion of privacy can be legal.
Agreed, or even relevant. I mean please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but EA really don't have any need for the kind of information described here, do they?
But c'mon people, unless you have kiddy porn (you sick bastard) I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Since when did EA become the police? People constantly use the Kiddy Porn argument whenever someone says their privacy is being violated, the whole argument is getting to be right up there with the Hitler one.
If Origin opens a constant door on to your computer, how long do you think, it'll take EA's servers to hacked wide open and all that data and entry point info finds its ways in to (more) unscrupulous hands?
Sony, one of the biggest and most powerful out there, were shut down for more than a month and their entire customer database was compromised. This little exercise was apparently for "the lulz". Just imagine what might happen to EA now that they have painted a target on their foreheads.
Jonabob87: DAMN IT PEOPLE READ THE ACTUAL ToS WITH YOUR EYES OPEN.
It says they will collect information about your COMPUTER and CERTAIN PROGRAMS and that they will NOT share ANY personal information they might have.
Stop being such fucking sheep and learn to think for yourselves. Just because the vapid OP decided to jump to utterly unfounded and ridiculous conclusions doesn't mean you have to.
They should not be be allowed to collect such a vague and wide amount of information such as what programs I have and when I use them and as has been pointed out someone could come in and steal the information they have collected. This ToS is overreach and should be fought so we don't have even more attempted next time. It comes down to trust and frankly many people do not trust EA with that much of their information.
What's difficult about trusting someone with the specs of your computer?
No, people are looking for reasons to be upset about Origin, and it's pathetic.
MrJKapowey: Hmm, this is just really, really, really, fucking stupid.
"We'll release a triple-A game that hundereds of thousands (maybe) really want and have been waiting for for thre or so years. BUT we'll make them download something which requires you to agree us to do ANYTHING with ANY data we want to collect off their computers. Good idea guys, marketing is gonna love this!"
I think it's genius. Evil genius, of course, but still genius.
But c'mon people, unless you have kiddy porn (you sick bastard) I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Citizens of The World,
We have decided to do something about the increasing rates of domestic violence in this wonderful world of ours. Close circuit television cameras will be installed in all of your houses so that we may find these despicable people who attack their partner.
As people who live in peace with their partner, I am sure you will have nothing to worry about from the cameras. They are purely their for your own protection.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Good Thing I'm already boycotting EA for like half a decade now (personal reasons,really) but I am just lucky that i'm not interested in BF (or MW and the likes of)- so that makes it comparatively easy for me Shame for the good Developers they lured on their side
Cheshire the Cat: HOLY SHIT! EA IS TRYING TO FUCK US OVER? WHO WOULDA THUNK IT! Its almost as if no one had every heard of them before...
-.-;
Why is this a surprise to some people?
That reminded me of this...
OT: Gotta love the tactics companies like EA try to pull. Unless people start taking notice and peel away the contradictions, hypocrisies and paradoxes like what's going on here, corporations will just steamroll over the "common folk". Rarely do people ever take that initiative, so long as they get fix...what's the point, right?
Hold on, something's slapping my butt...
thx- haven't seen that one yet. gotta love me some Bill Hicks. what a damn pity he ain't still around
Why must it be an FPS? Cause I'm considering facebook and google where information is collected from you and harvested for ads and nobody really cares, since they recieve the service they want. The 3DS also has insane ToS, granted the sales are poor but the poll put out on the street didn't have "crazy terms of service" as the top reasons. Gimmicky, lack of games and even lack of colour choices were more common a reason not to buy it If we'll be honest, no-one's going to be affected so harshly individually from whatever Origin plan to do, they might get some strangely specific ads; but if you weren't going to buy it cause of this it's an act on principle not convenience. And I've yet to see the gaming community successfully impact a AAA studio with a boycott even slightly, so when they do it will be a great day. People want to play BF3, and I hope they can subvert this. When the steam group for BF3 inevitably arises from this we'll find out after launch date how many were willing to stick to their guns.
In fact, I find the 3DS ones even worse than this. "We can destroy your shit any time we feel like it" is pretty nasty, but people really do just suck it up because they want to play the games
You just stated perfectly yourself what I didnt. Casual gamers and facebookers dont care for the terms of services. This has never happened before with a tripple-A title. And also, something else you said which doesnt make sense.
You are gonna wait a shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-t load of time for a steamgroup of battlefield 3 to pop up.
Makes this all the more interesting actually. Do hardcore (Yeah I'll regard this specific game as hardcore, but only the PC version cause of the sysreqs) gamers have the stones to stand against this, or will they fold as they did with MW2 PC?
There are *many* examples which are strong but not perfect.There's no example we can give where the performance-pushers have been specifically shafted, so we will see. Also: Where do the MW2 PC gamers lie on your casual-hardcore spectrum? It's a PC game (Hardcore) It's CoD(Casual now) and the sysreqs are high enough that you can't play it on a browser-PC, not even close.
What I was saying is that my Grandmother uses Facebook and my cousin of 4 years uses 3DS. I dont think they would care four shits if somebody was looking into their porn collection or pirated games. However I think gamers of below 20 years who pirate games and watch porn would be a little too embarrased to let EA look into their stash. That was the point I was trying to get across. And no, im not a PC elitist -thankyouverymuch- but im not getting it on consoles either as that would send the message that we dont want them on the PC (Which is a lie) We, or I. As a person. Do not like Origin, personally im getting Space Marine instead. Looks terrific.
HEADLINE, EA BANKRUPT FROM ORIGIN! Can't a man dream. This would be the second coming of the [don't read next bit if you have a religion and / or not atheist, don't want to offend, you've been warned
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+bm90IHJlYWw8L3A+
JEEZUS! Serisoulsly, Ea, keep it up, and you won't have a company in the dawn.
But c'mon people, unless you have kiddy porn (you sick bastard) I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Citizens of The World,
We have decided to do something about the increasing rates of domestic violence in this wonderful world of ours. Close circuit television cameras will be installed in all of your houses so that we may find these despicable people who attack their partner.
As people who live in peace with their partner, I am sure you will have nothing to worry about from the cameras. They are purely their for your own protection.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Lim3: They want to collect information for their own nefarious purposes - such as selling it for a premium price. That sort of information is worth a lot to marketers.
It sucks that if you want to play Battlefield 3 you would have to sell your privacy and pay $s.
Isn't there laws against this?
Google sells a lot of information. I think as long as its anonomouse data and they don't specify they won't sell it in the user agreement its fine.
Jerram Fahey: From the snippet of the TOS on the front page it says EA's Privacy Policy overrides anything in the Origin TOS. In the Privacy policy it says:
B. Will EA Share My Information With Third Parties? EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent.
Installing Origin likely counts as "consent" so even in the EU they may have their bases covered here.
That's kinda what i'm getting at, even the bloody EU law regarding privacy and data protection can so simply be overridden cause a company put in the line "cause we said so."
I'm really wavering about this now. Everything I see about BF3 makes for more want, everything I hear makes me not wanna go near it.
Well... They seem to be going well on their quest to reclaim most evil publisher award from Activism. I applaud you EA for you devious tactics at succeeding in becoming more evil by ending any chance my friends and I would buy BF3 to play together.
TheDarkEricDraven: Fucking EA! Hard. Copies. Come on people! I don't want to be the guy who's telling everyone to "Go back to horses, motors are just a fad!" but seriously!
I always buy hard copies, but that's because my internet connection is horrible XD Downloading WipeOut HD and Ratchet and Clank from the PS3 welcome back package took over 24 hours each, downloading Dragon Age: Origins on the PC took 2 and a half days of straight downloading. So until I move to an area with faster internet (which isn't any time soon) no downloading games for me XD But I agree with what you say. If you don't like a site's TOS, buy a hard copy online or in a shop.
Sgt. Dante: That's kinda what i'm getting at, even the bloody EU law regarding privacy and data protection can so simply be overridden cause a company put in the line "cause we said so."
I'm really wavering about this now. Everything I see about BF3 makes for more want, everything I hear makes me not wanna go near it.
Same here.
In fact,I'm not even wavering.
I was really looking forward to playing BF3 together with my clan-mates. But if the price is installing a piece of spyware, then forget it.
I like the Battlefield-style squad-centered multiplayer, I really do. But it's Modern Warfare 3 run-n-gun for me if this doesn't change, at least they don't probe-f*ck my cyber-butt.
Maybe,just maybe, if enough people pile up their discontent EA will take a 2nd look. If not, then I will find other ways to play EA games. Because, really, when faced with this kind of corporate contempt, then the conglomerate in question deserves to have their earnings, shall we say, undercut .
EA doesn't deserve one cent for the kind of police-state crap they're pulling.
EA would still easily make lots of money even without installing spyware on people's systems. They don't really need Origin. But then again, the baron doesn't need to f*ck over his serfs, does he? He does it because he can.
I would love to walk up to the corporate suit that came with this brilliant idea and give him a piece of my mind. And fist.
And that's why you read the TOS. I don't care how long it is, if it's in there that they can monitor your machine and you mindlessly signed it you deserve the fate you get.
Sgt. Dante: That's kinda what i'm getting at, even the bloody EU law regarding privacy and data protection can so simply be overridden cause a company put in the line "cause we said so."
I'm really wavering about this now. Everything I see about BF3 makes for more want, everything I hear makes me not wanna go near it.
Same here.
In fact,I'm not even wavering.
I was really looking forward to playing BF3 together with my clan-mates. But if the price is installing a piece of spyware, then forget it.
I like the Battlefield-style squad-centered multiplayer, I really do. But it's Modern Warfare 3 run-n-gun for me if this doesn't change, at least they don't probe-f*ck my cyber-butt.
Maybe,just maybe, if enough people pile up their discontent EA will take a 2nd look. If not, then I will find other ways to play EA games. Because, really, when faced with this kind of corporate contempt, then the conglomerate in question deserves to have their earnings, shall we say, undercut .
EA doesn't deserve one cent for the kind of police-state crap they're pulling.
EA would still easily make lots of money even without installing spyware on people's systems. They don't really need Origin. But then again, the baron doesn't need to f*ck over his serfs, does he? He does it because he can.
I would love to walk up to the corporate suit that came with this brilliant idea and give him a piece of my mind. And fist.
On that note I would have loved to see the meeting where they discussed the server browser.
EA: "Yeah, so we were thinking about that whole server thing."
Dude:"what about it?"
EA: "Well, what if, instead of random matchmaking we gave the console players a dedicated server browser like on the PC."
Dude:"that's a good idea, that'll make loads of people happy."
EA: "Yeah, now how about we take that functionality away from the PC gamers and instead ask them to close the game, open a browser, log into a website, look through a server list THERE and then re-launch the game from the website. Every time they want to play, NO! one better, every time they want to change server! Brilliant!."
Dude:"Wait, what? That is completely retarded, no one will think that's a good idea, why would we do that?"
EA: "Because fuck you that's why..."
Dude:"well damn."
I do honestly wonder how in hell these people got into a position whereby they get to make these multi-million dollar desicions. It beggers belief.
Sgt. Dante: On that note I would have loved to see the meeting where they discussed the server browser.
EA: "Yeah, so we were thinking about that whole server thing."
Dude:"what about it?"
EA: "Well, what if, instead of random matchmaking we gave the console players a dedicated server browser like on the PC."
Dude:"that's a good idea, that'll make loads of people happy."
EA: "Yeah, now how about we take that functionality away from the PC gamers and instead ask them to close the game, open a browser, log into a website, look through a server list THERE and then re-launch the game from the website. EVERY TIME THEY WANT TO PLAY."
Dude:"Wait, what? That is completely retarded, no one will think that's a good idea, why would we do that?"
EA: "Because fuck you that's why..."
Dude:"well damn."
I do honestly wonder how in hell these people got into a position whereby they get to make these multi-million dollar desicions. It beggers belief.
Wh... WHAT? Server browsing in for console versions but taken away from PC version? Is this a joke?
*checks internet*
No... it's not.
There's a lesson here about how success rots people from the inside. Really, what kind of brain-eating avarice and greed are these EA stooges suffering from?
I mean, Good Lord in Heaven, it's not like EA was in trouble financially up until now. These people would steal candy from a child.
Which would bring us back to the debate that owning illegally downloaded music is not a crime*, but downloading is. EA would need to get information from one's internet provider to be able to do that.
* - i.e. if you buy an illegal CD not knowing it was illegal, you can't be sued under most legal systems. I don't know how it works in the US, but at least in Europe, it is that way.