Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy

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SinisterGehe:
Ill contact the customer right agency and ask about this, I want to know is this legal in Finland.

It is not, if they go for EA they might force them not to sell any related product in Finland.
The agency cannot change Origin EULA, they can only ban Origin and only in your country.

Only EA can actually change their ways ... and become a shining beacon of corporate ethics ...
* loud crashing sounds *
Excuse me, I have to pick myself from the floor now where I ended up in laughter.

bleachigo10:
It's almost as if they're trying to get people not to use it, what the hell are they thinking? It seems with every passing day the odds of me buying Battlefield 3 decreases which sucks because I was actually kind of interested in it.

I know what you mean, this is as disappointing to me as Activation dissolving the original COD dev team.

That's what you get for not listening to Foamy!

User Agreement: Foamy the Squirrel

"We are all powerful and own your nipples!"

I have contacted Finnish authorities (Customer rights agency and legal department) and this contract is Illegal in Finnish law and can not be enforced in Finland. I am writing official complaint to Finland's customer right protection agency.

They will investigate this contract and the do the act accordingly.

PingoBlack:

SinisterGehe:
Ill contact the customer right agency and ask about this, I want to know is this legal in Finland.

It is not, if they go for EA they might force them not to sell any related product in Finland.
The agency cannot change Origin EULA, they can only ban Origin and only in your country.

Only EA can actually change their ways ... and become a shining beacon of corporate ethics ...
* loud crashing sounds *
Excuse me, I have to pick myself from the floor now where I ended up in laughter.

SinisterGehe:
I have contacted Finnish authorities (Customer rights agency and legal department) and this contract is Illegal in Finnish law and can not be enforced in Finland. I am writing official complaint to Finland's customer right protection agency.

They will investigate this contract and the do the act accordingly.

According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

SinisterGehe:

PingoBlack:

SinisterGehe:
Ill contact the customer right agency and ask about this, I want to know is this legal in Finland.

It is not, if they go for EA they might force them not to sell any related product in Finland.
The agency cannot change Origin EULA, they can only ban Origin and only in your country.

Only EA can actually change their ways ... and become a shining beacon of corporate ethics ...
* loud crashing sounds *
Excuse me, I have to pick myself from the floor now where I ended up in laughter.

SinisterGehe:
I have contacted Finnish authorities (Customer rights agency and legal department) and this contract is Illegal in Finnish law and can not be enforced in Finland. I am writing official complaint to Finland's customer right protection agency.

They will investigate this contract and the do the act accordingly.

According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

Nice! That's a hobby I can certainly respect :)

SinisterGehe:
According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

So ... Now you just need lawyers that can beat EA lawyers. :( And if you don't wanna get spied upon, you still cannot use it.

Well, hope you go through with official complaint. I'd like to see if they themselves try to ban Origin from Finland, as they should since it breaks the law there ... Or will just leave it to others.

I would have no problems with this if it was limited to stuff to do with Origin like installation of game and programs that are non origin but start up through the program so basically more in line with how Valve goes about it.

PingoBlack:

SinisterGehe:
According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

So ... Now you just need lawyers that can beat EA lawyers. :( And if you don't wanna get spied upon, you still cannot use it.

Well, hope you go through with official complaint. I'd like to see if they themselves try to ban Origin from Finland, as they should since it breaks the law there ... Or will just leave it to others.

I do it for a matter or principle. And If I or the Agency sues EA, they have to send a representative to Finland and the court session will be in Finnish and done according to Finnish law. And there is a in a Finnish law that forbids contracts allowing or demanding actions that are Illegal according to the law.
There is no US law here my darling, we have a common sense here.

EA already lost my purchase of B3 as soon as it was made Origin only, this has just cemented the fact that I will never buy anything from them again.

SinisterGehe:

According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

dude.... you're now rich!
also that propably just made my day, if it's illegal in atleast 1 country they'll have to change it! or i will have to move to finland to play bf3.

SinisterGehe:
I have contacted Finnish authorities (Customer rights agency and legal department) and this contract is Illegal in Finnish law and can not be enforced in Finland. I am writing official complaint to Finland's customer right protection agency.

They will investigate this contract and the do the act accordingly.

Pretty sure this isn't legal in Sweden/Norway or Denmark either. But just to be sure I will hit up a mail myself, thanks for the idea.

Now when I think about it it would be funny if they can't sell BF3 in the country it was made :)

hellflame:

SinisterGehe:

According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

dude.... you're now rich!
also that propably just made my day, if it's illegal in atleast 1 country they'll have to change it! or i will have to move to finland to play bf3.

Not really, our legal system also doesn't allow gaining economical benefit by suing someone. Only damages + set amount sum (that is written law) are paid to you, but far as I know the compensation for breaking privacy laws isn't small, but we are not talking about millions of euros here, just mere thousands of euros.

SinisterGehe:
I do it for a matter or principle. And If I or the Agency sues EA, they have to send a representative to Finland and the court session will be in Finnish and done according to Finnish law. And there is a in a Finnish law that forbids contracts allowing or demanding actions that are Illegal according to the law.
There is no US law here my darling, we have a common sense here.

I live in EU ... but don't share your optimism.
Sure, we have nice laws, but enforcement of them can be ... lacking.

But hope you do go on with official complaint, specially if you have already purchased an Origin product. Agency suing EA would be a powerful thing. For once, bureaucrats would work for us! :D

Waaghpowa:

MercurySteam:
See, here's why I buy most of my games for my 360. Consoles win again I guess.

Have you bothered to read any of the TOS's for consoles? They basically say that the OS on them is a license, so breaking any of their terms means they can lock you down effectively leaving you with an expensive paper weight (with the PS3 at least). Last I checked, that doesn't happen to PC's. At least with Origin it's an optional piece of software; you have the right to click "I do no agree" and life goes on. What happens if you do that on your Xbox?

Not really. Consoles can be banned from LIVE and accounts can be suspended but I've never heard of a console being 'barred from use' before. As long as you don't drastically mod your console or piss of a lot of people then you should be fine. And you only have to agree to their TOS if you join LIVE anyway which is totally optional (like Origin). Even if consoles could be banned (which they can't) if you make some bad decisions on Steam then your entire library goes bye-bye which isn't better than not being able to access your DLC on LIVE in the event that your account gets banned.

Seems EA has done some pretty major backpeddling.

http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf

So happy about this, was pretty disapointed that I might have had to cancel my preorder over the previous terms.

Edit: Ok, backpeddling is not really the right wroding here. More tightening up the terms to make them less vague and linking to the privacy policy which improves the terms alot.

Talendra:
Seems EA has done some pretty major backpeddling.

http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf

So happy about this, was pretty disapointed that I might have had to cancel my preorder over the previous terms.

You still allow them to look at all of your software, including that not related to Origin.

I don't see the change that would matter. Only looks more obscure now, pointing to another policy instead of it being included in same document. Still no opt in, other than installation itself.

SinisterGehe:
According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

But they are not exactly spying on you. They are asking if they can get your information. We'll let's see about the following optics. If I meet you at a party in Finland, I ask your name and then introduce you to some friends, can you process me?

MercurySteam:

Waaghpowa:

MercurySteam:
See, here's why I buy most of my games for my 360. Consoles win again I guess.

Have you bothered to read any of the TOS's for consoles? They basically say that the OS on them is a license, so breaking any of their terms means they can lock you down effectively leaving you with an expensive paper weight (with the PS3 at least). Last I checked, that doesn't happen to PC's. At least with Origin it's an optional piece of software; you have the right to click "I do no agree" and life goes on. What happens if you do that on your Xbox?

Not really. Consoles can be banned from LIVE and accounts can be suspended but I've never heard of a console being 'barred from use' before. As long as you don't drastically mod your console or piss of a lot of people then you should be fine. And you only have to agree to their TOS if you join LIVE anyway which is totally optional (like Origin). Even if consoles could be banned (which they can't) if you make some bad decisions on Steam then your entire library goes bye-bye which isn't better than not being able to access your DLC on LIVE in the event that your account gets banned.

I think the 3DS is the only one that can be bricked by the creator's company for breaking the ToS. That's the reason people were mailing 'bricks' to Nintendo.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110444-Anti-DRM-Group-Sends-Nintendo-200-Bricks

Mangue Surfer:
But they are not exactly spying on you. They are asking if they can get your information. We'll let's see about the following optics. If I meet you at a party in Finland, I ask your name and then introduce you to some friends, can you process me?

By Origin EULA they are allowed to check your usage of Adobe products and sell that info to Adobe.

Is that something you as EA customer see as improving the service?

Mangue Surfer:

SinisterGehe:
According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

But they are not exactly spying on you. They are asking if they can get your information. We'll let's see about the following optics. If I meet you at a party in Finland, I ask your name and then introduce you to some friends, can you process me?

Pardon the word I used there, but according to Finnish law they are spying me. Our privacy laws are very strict.

SinisterGehe:

Mangue Surfer:

SinisterGehe:
According to them, this contract is not binding in Finland. SO when they spy my computer, I can sue them for it! H'ray, I got myself a new hobby!

But they are not exactly spying on you. They are asking if they can get your information. We'll let's see about the following optics. If I meet you at a party in Finland, I ask your name and then introduce you to some friends, can you process me?

Pardon the word I used there, but according to Finnish law they are spying me. Our privacy laws are very strict.

In that case, no Origin in Finland then. :P

Re Finland legal issues;

Who is at fault? EA for spying via Origin or the consumer for aiding and abetting EA by installing the software after knowing what it does? I only say this because you have to believe EA has considered legal issues in certain countries and I'd not put it past them to try and bring down their... ugh, 'fanbase' with them.

winter2:

SinisterGehe:

Mangue Surfer:

But they are not exactly spying on you. They are asking if they can get your information. We'll let's see about the following optics. If I meet you at a party in Finland, I ask your name and then introduce you to some friends, can you process me?

Pardon the word I used there, but according to Finnish law they are spying me. Our privacy laws are very strict.

In that case, no Origin in Finland then. :P

Well what I heard from some others it should be about the same in Sweden, Norway and in Denmark. They are not sure but they are contacting their own bureaus for confirmation.

It is bigger loss to them than it is to me really :=)

EverythingIncredible:
Personally, I don't have a huge issue with this.

What's even dumber is that people installed this without reading the goddamn agreement!

A big part of the issue is that the licensing agreements are quite often covered in pages of convoluted and complex legal discourse, that the average user would not be able to comprehend. Nor should they be expected to. It's quite debatable whether it is legitimate grounds for legally binding contracts given the fact.

There has to be middle ground, because both the consumer and the corporation have some degree of fault in this matter.

As for this news:

I do not appreciate a corporation rifling through my personal files -- fuck you EA.

So, EA automatically turned my EA account (had for Dragon Age and Bulletstorm) into an Origin account, am I still safe from this as long as I don't install it?

PingoBlack:

By Origin EULA they are allowed to check your usage of Adobe products and sell that info to Adobe.

Is that something you as EA customer see as improving the service?

But by Adobe Reader X EULA they already get my data every time that I open a pdf file. By the same EULA they can send or sell the data for others too.

Anyway, Don't you really can't see any advantage in data exchanging between GPU manufacturers and game developers?

SinisterGehe:
Pardon the word I used there, but according to Finnish law they are spying me. Our privacy laws are very strict.

So you can put me in jail if I tell your name to friends even if you agree?

With all this back and forth info between the console and Pc versions it looks now that they are trying to make the console versions seem the better buy.

But is this wrong of them? Or do they just want to make a more cohesive, fun experience for Consoles without having to deal with Lag of 64 player battles and people with different Computer setups on PC.

Either way EA will probably stand there ground with this unless they get hundreds of thousands of people against it.

Catchy Slogan:
It still boggles the mind as to how this much of an invasion of privacy can be legal.

Well, if you agree to it in writing, everything can be legal!!

Don't you love lawyers?

On a side note, I give it a month before some brilliant hacker comes up with an origin bypass that allows games to think that origin is installed but actually isn't.

Can't google do the same exact thing? Them and a lot of other "free" service providers.

DaMullet:
On a side note, I give it a month before some brilliant hacker comes up with an origin bypass that allows games to think that origin is installed but actually isn't.

Well, yes but the servers will likely check the validity of this claim, meaning you still can't play MP.

Angry Juju:
EA this year "modern warfare 3 will suck!" "apple are going to go downhill" "origin monitors your computer" "we don't want our stuff on valve cus they r smelly"

To be fair, they've got one thing right. Everything else is bull though.

This has got to be some kind of experiment to see how the rate of piracy changes with relation to DRM intrusiveness. That's the interpretation I make of this whole business, and while I suppose it may be a good idea for science, it is annoying in the short term.

Do not want. I was interested in BF3 at first but first they said it wouldn't come to steam and then they said that you'd have to download orgin to play it and now THIS! Sorry but it's just not worth it for me.

Mangue Surfer:
Anyway, Don't you really can't see any advantage in data exchanging between GPU manufacturers and game developers?

EA has only right to ask about data concerning themselves and their products (Origin, games running through it). Mayor complaint here is they took the liberty to poke everyone else's business too.

The_root_of_all_evil:

JackWestJr:

But c'mon people, unless you have kiddy porn (you sick bastard) I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Citizens of The World,


We have decided to do something about the increasing rates of domestic violence in this wonderful world of ours. Close circuit television cameras will be installed in all of your houses so that we may find these despicable people who attack their partner.

As people who live in peace with their partner, I am sure you will have nothing to worry about from the cameras. They are purely their for your own protection.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

I have to say, this is the best post in this thread so far..

I think about this whole Origin thing as a way of beta-testing how much shit we will put up with, just so we can play our little precious games..

And if people dont open their eyes to what our future might look like, your analogy could very well be real, sooner or later..

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